ghost vid

[Bob Watson]

post your thoughts...

 

[Bananas]

Some incredibly bored nightshift guards seeing how many people they can fuck with. That's my thoughts.

 

[Polterwurst]

Then why didn't they come up with something a bit more spectacular?

 

[Bananas]

You'd have to ask the people perpetrating this hoax. I mean, people who do shit like hoaxing ghost videos aren't exactly sane to begin with, so applying logic to their actions is pointless.

Let me ask you this: Do you think *anyone* watches the footage of security cameras unless something happens, and they check to see if the cams show anything? Do you think there is some guy in a basement somewhere who does nothing but look at random camera footage in case of... what? Ghosts? Why would anyone watch this footage? They'd do nothing but stare at camera feeds and, sorry, but they only do that in the movies.

Unless there is a specific reason someone would pull this exact timeframe from the archive, there is litereally no way anyone would see this, ever. Unless someone with access to the footage, like security guards, hoaxed some stuff and pulled it out.

 

[Polterwurst]

Let me ask you this: Do you think *anyone* watches the footage of security cameras unless something happens, and they check to see if the cams show anything?

Well, I've never thought about it, but probably not. Which could mean that a lot of rather unspectacular but nonetheless possibly "paranormal" activity might end up being discarded without anyone noticing.

Actually, something does happen in the vid. Maybe someone did notice this once?

Well, or its the theatre managment trying to lure some ghosthunting show in.
Just because I think it might be genuine, that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of hoaxers around.

 

[Bananas]

Which could mean that a lot of rather unspectacular but nonetheless possibly "paranormal" activity might end up being discarded without anyone noticing.

Most likely, yes.

Well, or its the theatre managment trying to lure some ghosthunting show in.

You'd be surprised how often this is the case and the ghosthunting shows don't even care (they are all fake). As long as you have a place with previously reported haunting activity that is classically spooky enough, they'll set up shop there to act, badly, that they are actually doing something.

Just because I think it might be genuine, that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of hoaxers around.

Opinions were asked, I provided mine.

 

[Ufocurious]

I live in a country in which spirits are a part of everyday life thanks to the pseudo-science turned into religion, the spiritism.
One thing they say that is probably true is: in order for paranormal stuff to happen a living human being has to be present, because only living human beings have the energy to interact with the physical world.
Poltergeist is an example of it.
You need the person causing it.
If it is spirits/ghosts, or our energy doing it, I have no idea. However, we did have a poltergeist in our house, and little weird things happened.
See why I am so confused?
I want to be rational, but paranormal stuff keeps happening. I am inclined to think that it is a genetic thing, and some of us in the family produce a lot of DMT.
NEVERTHELESS:
in the video, the room is empty, therefore I will stick to FAKE!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tyger]

Okay - another opinion.

There are two things happening in the video.

First - a little white thing or things are flying around. Easily explained - a moth, perhaps, even a bird - because it looks pretty large. We don't know the speed of the video, which is key to figuring out what the flying thing is. We don't know if there is a time lapse happening.

Second, there is the movement of the chair that happens just around 00:14 seconds. We are again hamstrung because we don't know the speed of the video and if we are seeing a time-lapse. The chair could be moving very slowly - for any number of reasons. There could be a slight vibration in the floor at that point because of a furnace kicking on or off, or the passing of a tractor trailer. We just don't have enough information.

As for being 'hoaxed', not necessarily. Consider if people kept finding chairs askew in the hall when there was no explanation. The room was locked or something. They couldn't figure it out. So they hook up a vidcam. If the vidcam was there all along I'd want to know why there was a night-time video camera to begin with? Why does a meeting hall need a vidcam?

So that was what I was thinking and then did a google - LINK: Brookside Theatre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So it's a memorial and they have vidcams. And it happened after a show with a psychic. Hmmm....

LINK: 'Ghosts' caught on CCTV at English theatre | BreakingNews.ie

LINK: CCTV footage captures chair moving on its own in Romford, Essex, theatre | Mail Online

 

[Ufocurious]

Hey Tyger
You are such a good researcher. I did not bother. Thanks.

Now I can come up with a new theory: if there was a psychic show just before, the room would be filled with energy. And a ghost just decided to show off by moving the chair. It was a trickster having fun.

 

[Tyger]

Hey Tyger
You are such a good researcher. I did not bother. Thanks.

Now I can come up with a new theory: if there was a psychic show just before, the room would be filled with energy. And a ghost just decided to show off by moving the chair. It was a trickster having fun.

But it could have been anything. Having it be a 'ghost' is too complicated. I do think Occam's Razor applies. There are just too many possible simple physical explanations for that chair having moved in that way. I can come up with 3 or 4 off the top of my head. (One is a hoax - there are ways to have that chair move).

To really make a determination I would have to see the physical location, look at the chairs and the room, observe it over an extended period of time and really look at the 'original' video.

Here we have an issue of mechanism: you are positing a 'ghost', a room 'filled with energy'. What does that mean?

 

[Bananas]

I live in a country in which spirits are a part of everyday life thanks to the pseudo-science turned into religion, the spiritism.
One thing they say that is probably true is: in order for paranormal stuff to happen a living human being has to be present, because only living human beings have the energy to interact with the physical world.
Poltergeist is an example of it.
You need the person causing it.

What could this possibly be based on? What "energy" are they talking about, and why doesn't it occur in other living things?

 

[manxman]

bit of fishing line tied to chair leg, fed out under the door, and a moth flying about, bingo you have a ghost.

 

[Bananas]

bit of fishing line tied to chair leg, fed out under the door, and a moth flying about, bingo you have a ghost.

Exactly how I would do such a thing as well.

 

[Ufocurious]

But it could have been anything. Having it be a 'ghost' is too complicated. I do think Occam's Razor applies. There are just too many possible simple physical explanations for that chair having moved in that way. I can come up with 3 or 4 off the top of my head. (One is a hoax - there are ways to have that chair move).

To really make a determination I would have to see the physical location, look at the chairs and the room, observe it over an extended period of time and really look at the 'original' video.

Here we have an issue of mechanism: you are positing a 'ghost', a room 'filled with energy'. What does that mean?

Don't take it seriously. I am just being nice to the ghost probability.
I live by the 50/50 probability:
1. it is all between our ears
2. we are all spirits living an earthly experience
I keep my mind open for other possibilities as well. LOL
The energy I was talking about is the ectoplasma thing the spiritists talk about. They don't even explain it properly. Therefore it is laughable. Supposedly, this energy let us be alive in this planet. It is the ectoplasma freed by mediums that would respond to materializations, such as done by Sai Baba, for example. Ghosts need the ectoplasma to do physical stuff.In one of my crazy theories, if we were in a matrix, this energy would make up the physical world.
Anyway, it is all supposition.

Back to the theater room. There was a medium plus all the people doing whatever (they do no say on the sites). Maybe a lot of ectoplasma was released. and the ghost was able to do its trick.
As you can see, I don't take life too seriously. I don't even dwell on any theory, or defend it. However I love to make theories that fit the results. As Bananas says, a behavior that belongs to pseudo-scientists.

You should hear my theory on reptilians... it starts with human beings finding a scapegoat to blame all our nasty behaviours. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Think of me as a trickster poster, but well intentioned. There are no sacred cows for me.

editing after reading it: trickster and well intentioned seem paradoxical. I have to come up with something else. I like to nudge the things in other directions in order to open possibilities to other explanations. You guys can help.
BTW - the video for me is a classical hoax. I was just bringing another point of view, in the what if spirit (pun intended).

 

[Bananas]

I didn't mean to question you or anything, I was just curious about that because every time I hear someone start to talk about spiritual energy and channeling and all that jazz I just get an instant headache.

 

[Tyger]

Here we have an issue of mechanism: you are positing a 'ghost', a room 'filled with energy'. What does that mean?

This was a genuine question. I was attempting to see if you had a mechanism in mind - in other words, had you thought it through in any way, or was working with a 'working model'. Not thinking it through is fine btw - at least, in my neck of the woods. I do have a 'working model' that would address this.

bit of fishing line tied to chair leg, fed out under the door, and a moth flying about, bingo you have a ghost.

Exactly so. Probably what comes to everyone's mind. That assumes there are 'perpetrators'. Someone questioned why anyone would be looking at security video from 4:00 a.m. Hoaxers would be, of course.

But also, if we assume integrity, if something odd took place in the room - like bird poop all over the place and chairs oddly askew. Have they been having a problem with vandalism? If there was a bird in the room - and we have a time lapse video - the bird could have landed on the chair and then took off - moving the chair. But I don't think so. The chair really does seem to move without any 'agency'.

I've blown up the video and regarding the lights - there are actually other effects of light on the wall to the left - near the ceiling for example. These points of light are largish and slightly 'move' (flicker?) which makes me wonder if there is a bank of windows to the right. Are cars passing by? Are we seeing reflections? Are headlights flickering through blinds? Are there trees moving in a wind and causing street lamps to 'flicker' into the room? There appears to be a light source impacting parts of the left hand wall. The obviously moving whitish thing could be a moth, a bird, a bat. It is the least 'mysterious' aspect imo. And yet - the 'lights' taken as a whole happening in the room - are strange - without real knowledge of the room.

I would be interested in seeing far more of the CCTV video than this snippet - what went before and what went on after this apparent 'minute'. In other words the whole night. Yet, if this is a security video, why isn't there a time stamp?

The chair moving is the curiosity. It appears random with no agency. But it could have been slightly askew to begin with and was slowly inching from its skewed placement with a final release in that moment. maybe there was a vibration - as I mentioned - from passing traffic.

The video is an artifact - without adequate context. It proves nothing and is mainly used as a jumping off point for the imagination. If the people who released it can explain satisfactorily why they were looking at 4:00 a.m. security video - and why there isn't a time stamp - and are generally looking like honest folks with a question - okay, maybe we've got something here.

Don't take it seriously. I am just being nice to the ghost probability.
I live by the 50/50 probability:
1. it is all between our ears
2. we are all spirits living an earthly experience
I keep my mind open for other possibilities as well. LOL
The energy I was talking about is the ectoplasma thing the spiritists talk about. They don't even explain it properly. Therefore it is laughable.

Point #1 I agree with - except when it is apparently captured objectively by 'machines'.

Point #2 I agree with in a general sense.

The term 'ectoplasm' - I haven't heard that term applied since the 1800's. I don't think it is laughable myself. They did have something in mind when they used it. It 'makes sense' to an extent. But more pertinent is not how the spiritualists of the 1800's were using the word - but how you are using it.

Supposedly, this energy let us be alive in this planet.

I am wondering if this word 'ectoplasma' in this context can be the same as 'life force' or 'etheric'. The 'etheric' realm is that realm from which we draw forth the 'stuff ' to make our 'life body' (etheric body) according to esoteric lore. It is the life force/etheric that animates our bodies. Without the etheric life force our bodies do not cohere. At death we release the physical body at once back to the mineral world; we release the etheric body back into the etheric over the course of 3 days after death. The astral release is more complicated and lengthy a process. However, using this 'working model' there are realms that have vital elements that can be/could be 'conjured'.

It is the ectoplasma freed by mediums that would respond to materializations, such as done by Sai Baba, for example. Ghosts need the ectoplasma to do physical stuff. In one of my crazy theories, if we were in a matrix, this energy would make up the physical world. Anyway, it is all supposition.

I'm following you and I don't find what you say crazy at all.

Back to the theater room. There was a medium plus all the people doing whatever (they do not say on the sites). Maybe a lot of ectoplasma was released and the ghost was able to do its trick.

This does not compute - using my 'working model'. But I have not worked with the concept of 'ectoplasm'. Must look it up.

As you can see, I don't take life too seriously. I don't even dwell on any theory, or defend it. However I love to make theories that fit the results. As Bananas says, a behavior that belongs to pseudo-scientists.

I think you just described the scientific method. Pseudo-science - as a phrase - gets batted around a lot. It's a highly suspect description for a whole raft of reasons. Rather than cop-in to that dismissive mode, respect your theorizing more.

You should hear my theory on reptilians... it starts with human beings finding a scapegoat to blame all our nasty behaviours. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Sounds reasonable to me.

Think of me as a trickster poster, but well intentioned. There are no sacred cows for me.

Perhaps - but your ideas should be respected. You have a place at the table. No reason to apologize.

editing after reading it: trickster and well intentioned seem paradoxical. I have to come up with something else. I like to nudge the things in other directions in order to open possibilities to other explanations. You guys can help.
BTW - the video for me is a classical hoax. I was just bringing another point of view, in the what if spirit (pun intended).

Is it a classical hoax? How? How is it being hoaxed? Serious question.

 

[Polterwurst]

You know, it's sad. There is a minmal chance this was genuine Poltergeist activity, but we could never tell, because any footage today can be hoaxed, manipulated and staged and we all are much to weary and jaded by the hoaxes, "reality TV" etc. Well, what can you do. I'll believe it when I've seen it and investigated it myself and can absolutely exclude any trickery = probably never.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

While I am not for a moment claiming this video does show anything paranormal, we do have to remember that just because something can be faked, that doesn't then mean that is what happened. There really is no way for us watching a cctv video to determine a jot. Someone would need to interview people there, who found the chair askew, who decided to review the footage, all the mundane possibilities etc.

Just saying it's far from a slam-dunk either way when we cannot be there to investigate. I will say that I am pretty sure paranormal events happen and I am also sure that people do hoax things, especially videos!

 

[Bananas]

Well obviously Goggs, but with that line of though you can attribute the possibility to pretty much everything. I mean, if a door closes on it's own, do you call up the manufacturer and question him about possible haunted doors? Or do you close the window? I'm being silly here, but you get my meaning I hope.

 

[Ufocurious]

I saw the thread developing at work, but could not respond. Now I can.
Tyger:
I said it was laughable because before I wrote the post I did some research. The best source was this:
http://www.mensajefraternal.org.br/books/umfluido.pdf
In the book the author says he is not sure what ectoplasma is, how it is produced, and what is made of. Oh boy, if he doesn't know what it is, why write a book about it? I should read it carefully, but could not hold my laugh. I sometimes feel completely surrounded by people as confused as I am but who call themselves experts.

And it is the 1800s ectoplasma. All the research made after 1853 survived in Brazil as the Spiritism. Unfortunately I don't know much about esoteric things to compare. I tried a long time ago to read the Golden Bough, and Rudolf Steiner books, but they didn't click with me, so I forgot it all. The same goes with Blavatsky. Since I trust my gut feelings, I let them go. In that same period a book about Findhorn literally showed up amongst other books I was looking at the Westmount library in Montreal. That was weird, and I loved the book. Because I am an architect and at the time I was into sustainable housing and every single academic I respected had a connection with Findhorn, I stuck to that. I never went there but enjoyed their approach to sustainable living as it resonated with my own ideas. But that was a long time ago.

The classical hoax: I said that because I have seen it done more than once in one of these ghostbusters paranormal shows. Opening cupboards, chairs moving, rocking chairs rocking, and pianos playing on their own are all classics. Hoax or not.

I have had one paranormal phenomenon with physical outcome that still boggles my mind: we were at my parents' Summer house. The last bit of my son's toy dinosaur tail was lost. I was really upset because it was so cute. It came inside an egg. There was nothing I could do.

After the kids went to bed, like every night, I cleaned the glass top coffee table which we used as a drawing table. I cleaned with Windex and dried it perfectly in order to have it ready to go next morning. I went upstairs to check on them and came back to the living room to have some adult time on my own. My parents and husband were out.

When I came back, surprise surprise! The lost toy piece was on the top of the coffee table inside a large drop of water!?!
I was so happy! I thanked the elementals for bringing it back. And that was it. I just accepted that there are things we cannot explain.

Therefore, who am I to discredit other people's claim that a phenomenon was paranormal? However, a chair moving is kind of classic, that I am inclined to think of as hoax. I am not sure about the orb/lights though. I don't even know how to fake it.