Germany's lack of UFO documents?

[Polterwurst]

For anyone who's interested, here's a little update on the effort by a guy named Frank Reitemeyer to force the german government to make their UFO files public (original video posted above).

After successfully sueing the german government to allow him access to a 2009 study by its Scientific Service titled "The search for extraterrestrial life and the realization of UN resolution A/33/426 concerning the observation of unidentified flying objects and extraterrestrial life forms", the german Bundestag (government) appealed to Court and announced that it would try to avert the full public disclosure of this document. This was in 2011.

On november 13th of this year, the administrative appeals tribunal in Berlin is going to deal with this appeal. As it seems, the Bundestag has enlisted the help of some high-ranking international law office to protect its interests. I couldn't find any name, only a mention that they are "star lawyers".

Meanwhile, the non-yellow german press has actually taken notice, too. A short online article of an economy newspaper wonders what the heck german tax money is being used for, ordering such a study in the first place and then, after being told to make it public, go to these lengths to prevent that. And why the heck these lengths should be necessary at all. The article ends with a silly joke about the dome of the parliament building being a UFO from the 4th dimension...

...but, hey, it's a start.

If the appeal is denied, that would obviously create a precedent case. Frank Reitemeyer has already announced that his ultimate goal is to get the government to release all its UFO files, as so many other countries have done.

....I don't really think that the current "NSA listening to Mrs Merkels mobile phone" crisis will be helpful, but maybe there is a slight chance she'll go: "Release the files! That'll teach them not to listen in on my little chats with Mr Sarkozy". One can always dream.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Good post and this is interesting development wonder what Dr J Farrell would say about this Chris and Gene??

 

[Polterwurst]

Sorry, but I don't think the reason why they are trying to prevent that document from seeing the light of day has anything to do with "Nazi UFOs". Did I mention that I think these are a myth?

 

[stonehart]

interesting .. why such resistance to making them public even in part.... Hmmm I do wounder?

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Who said anything about Nazi UFOs rather technology developments in aircraft !

 

[Polterwurst]

If you say so. Unfortunately many people seem to believe that these developments not only started with the Nazis when they were trying to achieve air supremacy in WW II, but actually led to them discovering the secrets of anti gravity and field propulsion. Which was then kept from the public 60+ years and led to the advent of a "breakaway civilisation", which is now up to no good all over the solar system. Not to mention secret Nazi Antarctica bases and pacts with the greys.

interesting .. why such resistance to making them public even in part.... Hmmm I do wounder?

My guess is that a) they don't want to embarass themselves, because the subject is seen largely as preposterous and ridiculous, and b) the U.S. government doesn't publish their files, so they won't.

Btw. IMO this "naughty-NSA-is-spying-on-us moral outrage" is nothing but eyewash. Merkel and her buddies (and predecessors) knew what was going on all along, and they obviously ordered our own secret services to be helpful in any possible way. They'll pretend to be outraged as long as Snowden has more inconvenient "news" and then go back to business as usual, which means taking orders from overseas. Including (I think) orders to pass on any good sighting reports, radar recordings, footage of UFOs etc., and keep ridiculing them or at least pretending they don't exist.

 

[boomerang]

I can't tell how much of this thread is about the "Nazi Anti-gravity Legend" and how much about differences in how various cultures handle things anomalous. But it's interesting either way.

Polter--You don't have to worry about having too much paranormal fun in one day here on the Paracast Forums. Your secret is safe with us.

 

[stonehart]

If you say so. Unfortunately many people seem to believe that these developments not only started with the Nazis when they were trying to achieve air supremacy in WW II, but actually led to them discovering the secrets of anti gravity and field propulsion. Which was then kept from the public 60+ years and led to the advent of a "breakaway civilisation", which is now up to no good all over the solar system. Not to mention secret Nazi Antarctica bases and pacts with the greys.



My guess is that a) they don't want to embarass themselves, because the subject is seen largely as preposterous and ridiculous, and b) the U.S. government doesn't publish their files, so they won't.

Btw. IMO this "naughty-NSA-is-spying-on-us moral outrage" is nothing but eyewash. Merkel and her buddies (and predecessors) knew what was going on all along, and they obviously ordered our own secret services to be helpful in any possible way. They'll pretend to be outraged as long as Snowden has more inconvenient "news" and then go back to business as usual, which means taking orders from overseas. Including (I think) orders to pass on any good sighting reports, radar recordings, footage of UFOs etc., and keep ridiculing them or at least pretending they don't exist.

Yeah I can go with that.. good post.

 

[Polterwurst]

Polter--You don't have to worry about having too much paranormal fun in one day here on the Paracast Forums. Your secret is safe with us.

Yeah, thanks, but what about them? If they are even interested in Mrs Chancellor's cellphone calls (I mean, WTH), what will they do with my posts here?

Nah, just kidding. I'm at a point where I'll tell anybody who wants to have an honest conversation, about my interests in these things, even here in Germany. There's actually things that science and public opinion just dismiss which are nonetheless valid and real. And I'll tell anybody how much that bothers me.

 

[Polterwurst]

Update:

After successfully sueing the german government to allow him access to a 2009 study by its Scientific Service titled "The search for extraterrestrial life and the realization of UN resolution A/33/426 concerning the observation of unidentified flying objects and extraterrestrial life forms", the german Bundestag (government) appealed to Court and announced that it would try to avert the full public disclosure of this document. (...)
On november 13th of this year, the administrative appeals tribunal in Berlin is going to deal with this appeal. .

I've just learned that the appeal has been acceded to. The tribunal has decided that my government has no obligation to make studies by its scientific service available to the public and that they are not subject to the law of freedom of information. Meaning that there will not be a precedent for future FOI requests concerning UFO files.

Good night, Germany. I'll have to emigrate.

 

[Ezechiel]

Update:


I've just learned that the appeal has been acceded to. The tribunal has decided that my government has no obligation to make studies by its scientific service available to the public and that they are not subject to the law of freedom of information. Meaning that there will not be a precedent for future FOI requests concerning UFO files.

Good night, Germany. I'll have to emigrate.

No wonder the US is spying on Germany

 

[Randall]

Update:


I've just learned that the appeal has been acceded to. The tribunal has decided that my government has no obligation to make studies by its scientific service available to the public and that they are not subject to the law of freedom of information. Meaning that there will not be a precedent for future FOI requests concerning UFO files.

Good night, Germany. I'll have to emigrate.

I'd like to emigrate to another planet ... but which one?

​

 

[Polterwurst]

No wonder the US is spying on Germany

... hey wait... You know how I always wondered why anybody should be bored enough to listen in on Mrs Merkel's cellphone calls? It's obvious now! The cellphone is actually a communication device to her alien overlords. They want to hear her reporting on the progress of her evil 30-year-plan to take over the world by replacing the minds of people from all over the world with their alien minds during Oktoberfest! She's one of them! A reptilian ... um no... probably a pug-ilian! That explains everything. And it's been going on at least since the times of her evil mentor. Thank you for opening my eyes, Zeke!

 

[Ezechiel]

... hey wait... You know how I always wondered why anybody should be bored enough to listen in on Mrs Merkel's cellphone calls? It's obvious now! The cellphone is actually a communication device to her alien overlords. They want to hear her reporting on the progress of her evil 30-year-plan to take over the world by replacing the minds of people from all over the world with their alien minds during Oktoberfest! She's one of them! A reptilian ... um no... probably a pug-ilian! That explains everything. And it's been going on at least since the times of her evil mentor. Thank you for opening my eyes, Zeke!

I heard they spiced up the sauerkraut and beer !!!

 

[uforadio]

Hold it Polterwurst - you said you were German but you used the word 'poppycock' - that has to be a choice to be funny I hope, because in the UK only the most old-fashioned upper-class person uses it.

By the way, this was the exact term that Rear Admiral Thomas Wilson used when he was confronted by Richard Dolan on the phone about aftermath of the meeeting in Pentagon between him (Wilson) and Edgar Mitchell

 

[Polterwurst]

I heard they spiced up the sauerkraut and beer !!!

Probably with something to numb people's brains for the mind swap. I mean, just look at these people and listen to the music (no wait, don't do that, I think that alone can damage your brain).

Btw. I know where they come from now: Sirius. Angie Merkel with her sad saggy pug face and dogged behaviour just has to be from the dog star.

By the way, this was the exact term that Rear Admiral Thomas Wilson used when he was confronted by Richard Dolan on the phone about aftermath of the meeeting in Pentagon between him (Wilson) and Edgar Mitchell

...which is probably where I got it from. Learn English by listening to the Paracast.

 

[uforadio]

...which is probably where I got it from. Learn English by listening to the Paracast.

Yup, it was mentioned by Dolan on the Paracast episode 5-6 years ago. There was also big thread on the Paracast forums at the time when it was announced that Edgar Mitchell will be on Larry King. Emails were sent to Larry to disclose the identity of the admiral.

 

[Polterwurst]

Just read some news on a possible development regarding german UFO files. The internet site "Grenzwissenschaft aktuell" (which roughly translates to "fringe sciences daily") has announced that they have gained access to a file of the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND, "federal intelligence service", or foreign secret service) which actually wasn't to be disclosed until 2021 in which UFO-related incidents over the former border between the two cold-war era Germanys (FRG and GDR) are said to be discussed/reported. Further details will be announced tomorrow (Friday february 28th).

The articles and news on the site are quite level-headed and objective and tend not to take either the esoteric or the debunking stance. I'm still not too excited, though, because whoever granted this access, will probably only disclose what they want to be disclosed. So maybe it'll be just russian spy planes, home made aircraft by GDR refugees and stuff. Still, the mere existence of such a file would mean that there probably are more UFO files and that Germany was involved in gathering data about UFOs, which has always been denied by the german government. To put it more drastically, that they lied to us all along.

 

[Polterwurst]

Update: a first article on the secret service file, the title of which I'd translate as something like "GDR border installations on the inner-german border - UFO" seems to confirm that this is mostly a collection of UFO sighting reports in order to identify soviet russian aircraft and airborne operations. Obviously they were especially looking for spy drones. According to the article, there were many sightings which could easily be identified as known and experimental aircraft which at the time (in the years before the end of the cold war) would have seemed unusual for the civilian and even military witnesses but were quite obviously man-made.

But there also seem to be a few more unusual sightings. An example is given of an unknown object emitting blinding rays of light in all directions so that no details (shape, color) could be seen and the light source could not be determined as headlights or floodlights etc. Nothing is said about an estimation of the size. It approached a ferry railway station on the inner german border at night, moving slowly and at one point coming to a near standstill above the station. A very low turbine-like hum was heard by the witnesses, but no helicopter-like rotor sounds. The object then continued slowly eastward and eventually disappeared.

Sounds pretty man-made, too, but if it was a russian spydrone or something like that, what's with the blinding light announcing it? Maybe some russian jokester going "now let's show them something"? Unlikely, I guess.

There will be more sighting reports in the second part of the article tomorrow, I'll write a summary as soon as possible. Interestingly, with these "stranger" sighting reports there seem to be remarks in the file saying something like "make a write up of this sighting for the usual UFO proceedings", which seems to be a further hint that there was a central agency gathering reports of "true UFOs". Maybe there's going to be more details on that tomorrow, but I'm not holding my breath.

Update: the 2nd part of the article is available but as I had half expected, there aren't any big revelations, just a few sightings of unusual lights. A compiled english version of the article will be posted on monday march 3d, which I'll link here. Way I see it, this is only exciting as a possible sign of the loosening of the up to now strict denial of the existence of files like this one.

 

[Polterwurst]

Not too exciting but hopefully a start.
Update: here's the complete article on german secret service UFO file in english.