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Doomsday Conspiracies, Prepping and...I'm scared

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exo_doc said:
Here's some sites that are good for information and equipment for those of you so inclined:
Doomsday Survival Gear Checklist of Prepper Supplies
Prepping on a Budget - Prepare Yourself to Survive — Prepare Yourself to Survive
Doomsday Preppers Top 10 Must Have Supplies for an Emergency
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I like this link from the second site:
Prepping on $10 a Week, by S.W. Michigan Fred - SurvivalBlog.com

So much outdoorsy stuff is really expensive, because, well, people buy it. I like the idea of supplies and tools for people who do not have much money. I also like to see material geared towards people who either live in an apartment, do not have much land, and/or cannot raise livestock. Personally, I do not have surplus money to buy expensive gear, and I need more land if I want to have livestock. I'm interested in things one can do with little money.

I've often felt that way about fishing. There need to be publications and such for people without money for expensive boats and equipment. There should be something for the person scraping by who could really use the information.

For home-brewing, I like the book The Alaskan Bootlegger's Bible. I mean, some of the recipes are pretty horrendous (try making milk wine at your own risk. I tried it. I am not a fan of it.), but some are good, and I like the low-budget DIY aesthetic of it. I don't distill anything, because it is illegal, but the author includes plenty of info about brewing beers and wines.

I value ingenuity and resourcefulness over just buying the biggest and bestest new thing.
 
Konrad Hartmann said:
I value ingenuity and resourcefulness over just buying the biggest and bestest new thing.
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On that topic I've heard a lot of people in the prepping community complain about too much dependence on technology and the "next new thing" regarding prepping or survivalism. There was an episode of Doomsday Preppers where the prepper focused 100% on primitive survival, including eating road kill and insects,using tomahawks as primary weapons, and fashioning sharpening sticks as self defense tools. His philosophy was that when the "SHTF" (or shit hits the fan...the stereotypical catch phrase in prepping that signals the end of the word-type-stuff), guns will run out of bullets, knives and tools will break, and food will quickly run out.

Now I don't disagree with that stance except for the point that it will take years for those resources to be used up depending on the nature of the event. For instance social unrest will tax the use of bullets far faster in some communities. Nevertheless people who are prepping using firearms are storing up ammo for years at a time. My point being here that if the SHTF, this guy will be facing individuals and at times well-armed groups of preppers, loaded to bare with firearms, while he has sticks and tomahawks. If he doesn't go to ground and hide he won't survive the first six months.

Myself, I'm a believer in the tiered approach; store up and use the high-tech gear first. When it wears out or you use it all, fall back on the next lower-level technology. Finally, when all other options are expended, fall back to primitive techniques. The guy I described above was jumping to the end of prepping, in my opinion. For instance if you have matches to light a fire, use them. When you're out of matches, use flint and steel. When you're out of flint and steel use a bow saw.

I'm also on board with ya, Konrad, regarding prepping on a budget and with minimal space. We live in a house but it's a small ranch, single story and under 1,000 square feet. We have a decent yard but I'm not sure if it's big enough to put much more than a tornado shelter in the back, much less a shelter big enough to store preps in. Top that off with the fact that I'd have to budget around $5,000 to install such a shelter. In my case that is bad. I prep for weather related disasters and emergencies. We live in tornado ally, oh, and I'm on a slab so a direct hit from an F2 tornado or bigger will just sheer my house right into oblivion. Still, I'm working on such a prep...in small steps.
 
Sandanfire said:
Myself, I'm a believer in the tiered approach; store up and use the high-tech gear first. When it wears out or you use it all, fall back on the next lower-level technology. Finally, when all other options are expended, fall back to primitive techniques. The guy I described above was jumping to the end of prepping, in my opinion. For instance if you have matches to light a fire, use them. When you're out of matches, use flint and steel. When you're out of flint and steel use a bow saw.


I'm also on board with ya, Konrad, regarding prepping on a budget and with minimal space. We live in a house but it's a small ranch, single story and under 1,000 square feet. We have a decent yard but I'm not sure if it's big enough to put much more than a tornado shelter in the back, much less a shelter big enough to store preps in. Top that off with the fact that I'd have to budget around $5,000 to install such a shelter. In my case that is bad. I prep for weather related disasters and emergencies. We live in tornado ally, oh, and I'm on a slab so a direct hit from an F2 tornado or bigger will just sheer my house right into oblivion. Still, I'm working on such a prep...in small steps.
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Yeah, I agree. The guy described above is adapting to a really advanced stage of social breakdown, and like you said, he would have to survive until that point. And to my mind, complete social breakdown is a very specific and fairly unlikely situation. The most likely scenarios to happen are ones that have already happened. At least in the U.S. or Canada, the most probable events seem to be ones that are short-term. I mean, I like the idea of being able to start a fire with a bow saw, but if you're hypothermic and your hands are growing numb, you might regret not getting that $1 lighter. I don't know what the laws are for commercial fisherman regarding mandatory electronics equipment, but I don't imagine many of them saying, "No, let's not have a radio or GPS because we might become overly reliant on them."

I forget the specific tribe or tribes, but I read that when the Plains tribes were fighting the Army, many of them continued to use bow and arrow, even when single-shot rifles were available to them. They achieved a higher rate of fire with the bow than with the rifle, which is important for mobile combat (a non-vet totally armchairing it here, just going by what I've read). However, when repeating rifles became available, they generally switched to them. In other words, they adapted to the best tools available to them.

We get an occasional tornado in Pennsylvania, but nothing like in the Midwest. How much warning do you have of a tornado? Do you have a special radio for warnings? What do you do when you get a warning? We have had some tornado warnings in recent years in places like the Philadelphia area where such an event is totally alien. We usually crap our pants because we don't know what to do.

 
I have a simple question regarding all these "doomsday preppers/ survivalist" types. Lets say you stock up on the food, water, shooting irons, batteries and radios etc etc but everyone seems to have overlooked the question....... Why? As in civilisation (as we know it) has disintegrated, why would you want to spend the rest of your life running and looking over your shoulder? I can see why in the short term but lets say you're a young adult... early to mid thirties and you have survived a ... nuclear attack. What next once you emerge from your bunker? Months spent roaming the country trying not to die from radiation poisoning, avoiding people who's first inclination would be to kill you on the spot.. animals that have seen the demise of humans and are no longer scared of them.. What if you are on your own, what's to stop you going bonkers? You can prep for the immediate aftermath of almost any situation but the long term..... not so easy. On a separate note, that's what I liked about The Road. It was just totally bleak with no real hope of redemption or salvation. I read the book before the film and I think the film did the book justice... see Hollywood - adapting a difficult book isn't that difficult...
 
ps - Nameless - Ray Mears may be pretty cool - and the man certainly is, but he's no Bush Tucker Man (for those of you old enough to remember him)...
 
campbell71 said:
I have a simple question regarding all these "doomsday preppers/ survivalist" types. Lets say you stock up on the food, water, shooting irons, batteries and radios etc etc but everyone seems to have overlooked the question....... Why? As in civilisation (as we know it) has disintegrated, why would you want to spend the rest of your life running and looking over your shoulder? I can see why in the short term but lets say you're a young adult... early to mid thirties and you have survived a ... nuclear attack. What next once you emerge from your bunker? Months spent roaming the country trying not to die from radiation poisoning, avoiding people who's first inclination would be to kill you on the spot.. animals that have seen the demise of humans and are no longer scared of them.. What if you are on your own, what's to stop you going bonkers? You can prep for the immediate aftermath of almost any situation but the long term..... not so easy. On a separate note, that's what I liked about The Road. It was just totally bleak with no real hope of redemption or salvation. I read the book before the film and I think the film did the book justice... see Hollywood - adapting a difficult book isn't that difficult...
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I have heard that same question over the years. Why would you want to survive in such a world?
I don't want to survive in such a world. I really don't. I don't want civilization to crumble. I love grocery stores with fresh foods. I am really glad to have medical help a phone call away. I like to travel and see the world too. There's an endless list of stuff I love about tech and civilization.

So why do I prepare for a possible armageddon? If it does happen, I may not want to live after all,....but I want the option to live if I so choose.

As for long term survival, that's mainly what I've been doing. I have the equipment and ability to produce food indefinitly, with the proper care and planning.
 
Industrialized man has the luxury of being completely out of touch with what it means to survive in nature. I recall my dad talking about waiting for coldest days of winter on the farm to slaughter and dress out hogs, which were then salted and provided pretty much all of the meat they had for the year. This was a natural way of life in his childhood. I think some preppers/survivalists have an overblown fantasy of life after the big crash. Dressing out your own hogs, plowing behind mules and life without plumbing: Ugh! Keep those generators running.
 
campbell71 said:
I have a simple question regarding all these "doomsday preppers/ survivalist" types. Lets say you stock up on the food, water, shooting irons, batteries and radios etc etc but everyone seems to have overlooked the question....... Why? As in civilisation (as we know it) has disintegrated, why would you want to spend the rest of your life running and looking over your shoulder? I can see why in the short term but lets say you're a young adult... early to mid thirties and you have survived a ... nuclear attack. What next once you emerge from your bunker? Months spent roaming the country trying not to die from radiation poisoning, avoiding people who's first inclination would be to kill you on the spot.. animals that have seen the demise of humans and are no longer scared of them.. What if you are on your own, what's to stop you going bonkers? You can prep for the immediate aftermath of almost any situation but the long term..... not so easy. On a separate note, that's what I liked about The Road. It was just totally bleak with no real hope of redemption or salvation. I read the book before the film and I think the film did the book justice... see Hollywood - adapting a difficult book isn't that difficult...
Click to expand...

Campbell - the situation you're considering is a worst-case scenario in all sense of the phrase. And your reference to The Road is spot-on, however there are literally countless other scenarios preppers consider and plan for. The idea is to prep for the "gap" where our current society has dissolved and the recovering society has established stability. You site nuclear war as an example, and falsely state "...everyone seems to have over looked the question...Why?" Preppers who plan for a nuclear war scenario haven't overlooked that question, they emphasize it. They won't just have stores for months, they'll have stores for years...typically three to five.....after radiation displacement has occurred to naturally safe levels and the sky has started to clear allowing sunlight to hit the surface of the Earth. There wouldn't be any "....trying not to die from radiation poisoning..." and people would start to come together into communities for mutual survival and propagation. Yes, prepping for a tornado and prepping for a nuclear attack (or any other long term disaster) are two different things but those planning for the more long term threats have already taken into consideration anything you can possibly think up on your end.

The Road, as I mentioned, is a worst-case scenario, yes. Ten years out and no sustainability? No stability (other than the rape/canible gangs) and no hope for photosynthesis? Now 'that' situation I can understand why you wouldn't want to live through. That's a case where regardless of prepping you're screwed but then again, regardless of what some preppers will tell you, you can never prepare for the real dooms day, regardless of what form it takes.
 
boomerang said:
...I think some preppers/survivalists have an overblown fantasy of life after the big crash. Dressing out your own hogs, plowing behind mules and life without plumbing: Ugh! Keep those generators running.
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Amen, brother. I also think that some of those fantasies include "ruling" after a disaster. I've heard more than one prepper make a comment about being "King of America" after the SHTF. Their plan is the disaster would have eliminated any governmental continuance leaving a power gap to take advantage of, and someone with food, water, and reliable shelter would have a serious advantage in being able to "name their price" for sharing including manual labor. Why dress out your own hogs when you can pay someone in food to do it for you?

Agreed...fantasy.
 
campbell71 said:
ps - Nameless - Ray Mears may be pretty cool - and the man certainly is, but he's no Bush Tucker Man (for those of you old enough to remember him)...
Click to expand...
yeah Bush tucker man was way cool, the first time i saw him crack open a tree stump and eat a witchity grub i was hooked. Ray Mears did a programme about him as he was one of his heroes and spurred him to train with aboriginees too;

 
Sandanfire said:
Campbell - the situation you're considering is a worst-case scenario in all sense of the phrase. And your reference to The Road is spot-on, however there are literally countless other scenarios preppers consider and plan for. The idea is to prep for the "gap" where our current society has dissolved and the recovering society has established stability. You site nuclear war as an example, and falsely state "...everyone seems to have over looked the question...Why?" Preppers who plan for a nuclear war scenario haven't overlooked that question, they emphasize it. They won't just have stores for months, they'll have stores for years...typically three to five.....after radiation displacement has occurred to naturally safe levels and the sky has started to clear allowing sunlight to hit the surface of the Earth. There wouldn't be any "....trying not to die from radiation poisoning..." and people would start to come together into communities for mutual survival and propagation. Yes, prepping for a tornado and prepping for a nuclear attack (or any other long term disaster) are two different things but those planning for the more long term threats have already taken into consideration anything you can possibly think up on your end.

The Road, as I mentioned, is a worst-case scenario, yes. Ten years out and no sustainability? No stability (other than the rape/canible gangs) and no hope for photosynthesis? Now 'that' situation I can understand why you wouldn't want to live through. That's a case where regardless of prepping you're screwed but then again, regardless of what some preppers will tell you, you can never prepare for the real dooms day, regardless of what form it takes.
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the irony is the last people you want to restart civilisation again are militia based militarised doomsday cultist survivalist christians.
 
A classic case of confusing the validity of a concept with the goofballs that try and execute it. Prepping is wise, but you have to be reasonably wise to make it worth your while. Think logically at the most base level about what you will need: clothing, shoes, food, water. More of the latter than the other three. Firearms sure, but that's limited unless you carry tons of ammo, which is impractical. Plus if you have a weapon, you become a target. Still a good idea though.

So, my approach would be to do everything to protect and sustain. Yes, this involves defense against takers taking your stuff, but I have a feeling in most neighborhoods people would band together. The ones that are prone to looting and a free-for-all mentality will self-destruct. That can only help those wanting to maintain and restore order.
 
nameless said:
the irony is the last people you want to restart civilisation again are militia based militarised doomsday cultist survivalist christians.
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You've effectively described the Mayflower Pilgrims. If you enjoy what the US offers, you might want to re-think that. However, since you're using "s" instead of "z" in your phrasing, you may still harbor some resentment toward them, don't know ;)
 
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