December 27th - Budd Hopkins & Doug

[Vomitor]

4 witnesses doesn't mean all that much if they aren't speaking, thats the entire point.

Sandandfire - what youre talking about is one of the problems of explaining the abduction/experiencer scenario "conventionally"...wether or not you believe that it is done by the greys, many of the cases demand some explanation for how it could have taken place close to other people without noticing, escape surveillance etc. Budd Hopkins does some speculation on all this in "Sight Unseen".

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Why still this talk about him lying? I cant remember seeing anyone in the topic accusing him of that. And 4 witnesses doesn't mean all that much if they aren't speaking.

But Sandandfire - what youre talking about is also one of the "problems" of the abduction/experiencer scenario...wether or not you believe that it is doen by the greys, many of the cases demand some explanation for how it could have taken place close to other people without noticing etc. Budd Hopkins does some speculation on this in "Sight Unseen".

In paranormal research, fraud or lying is always 'on the table' as an explanation when all you have is anecdotal evidence. Let me re-emphasize, at this point, that in Doug's case I do not believe he is lying, but it's still a possibility that must always be addressed. I mean no offense in implying that Doug could be lying, I'm merely considering all possibilities.

Regarding the abduction event, I'm of the mind that surveillance of the subject/victim must be occurring by the abductors so they can pick-and-choose their time. How the abduction occurs at that point is also an extremely interesting question and gets into the age-old discussion of what these abductors actually are. If they're multi-dimensional and can bounce dimensions, well, that explains a LOT since they could literally pop in any place, any time. That leaves the abduction time-frame wide open. If the abductors stem from the ETH, well that complicates things quite a bit as "they" will now have to follow a lot more 'rules' for the abduction (flying to the location the abductee is at, sneaking in all ninja-like, performing the abduction, then sneaking out with minimal witnesses and such.)

 

[jpw.in.wi]

This was a truly riveting episode for me. Doug sold me on his experiences, and that judgement was cemented recently after listening to Don Ecker's interview of Travis Walton over in The Best of Dark Matters Radio. When I hold Walton's delivery up next to Doug's, there's no comparison: I have no trust at all in Walton, but the opposite is true of Doug.

Thanks for the great show, Gene and Dave! I hope Doug knows there are many people who believe him and who want to support him in carrying around this burden.

 

[Hermes]

This was a truly riveting episode for me. Doug sold me on his experiences, and that judgement was cemented recently after listening to Don Ecker's interview of Travis Walton over in The Best of Dark Matters Radio. When I hold Walton's delivery up next to Doug's, there's no comparison: I have no trust at all in Walton, but the opposite is true of Doug.

Thanks for the great show, Gene and Dave! I hope Doug knows there are many people who believe him and who want to support him in carrying around this burden.

As you said: "Riveting." I felt the same way about this.

 

[itsthenoise]

This show is the only place [ bar maybe two others? ] that I'd believe a word these type of guests come out with.

Its great that there'll be more of this type of show in 2010, very interesting.

thanks gene and david.

 

[Jonah]

Great show. Much appreciation to one and all. More like this please.

Ten bucks says Doug's current wife is of Scandinavian heritage.

 

[mikec]

Listening to Doug's shaky voice, I was struck by the very real anxiety in his tone.

It was nerve wracking for me the listener to sit thru the entire show, the deeply human anxiety was palpable.

This strange stuff can make for oppressive stress that is off the charts. That gets mentioned by researchers and authors, but it is quite different to actually HEAR it in a person's voice. This is a real human being, dealing with something impossibly difficult.

It is impossible to separate the terrible stress from the personal experience.

Thank you Doug (and Budd and David and Gene) for this important episode.

 

[Vomitor]

Jonah> What makes you say that about dougs wife?

 

[Jonah]

Just a hunch...

 

[Apocalypto]

Great interview, guys. Keep it coming. Man, it's Sunday already, so a new edition is almost up... time flies!

 

[richierich]

One part of Doug's story was a total red flag for me. Over and over he claimed his brother and his wife "dont like to talk about it" and "they get too scared to discuss it."

But particularly near the end, when pressed on that, Doug said something along the lines of "she will get really upset and leave the room".

In saying this, he seemed to be overcompensating. I just cant see it playing out like that.

I dont buy for a second that he can not get them to talk about it, at least a little. People want to talk about strange things like this. They hide uglier things like abuse. (BTW - earlier someone stated the theory that the hospital may have suspected abuse...my thoughts exactly).

If anything, I would say that perhaps he says they are scared when in reality they just dont want to participate in Dougs ET ramblings...maybe thats what scares them. Perhaps if we did hear from them, I suspect they would tell us that Doug has an overactive imagination.

Other problems I had was the detail given about the phone booth and how the women locked the car doors. They seemed to me to be fabricated, probly unintentionally.

I believe Dougs telling what he thinks is the truth. Its possible that he is a sincere sounding liar, but I think it land some where between him believing his own stories and him liking the attention from Bud.

PS. Someone should do a search for Doug's friend and ask him whats up. That was a big mistake by Doug to call out his real name. If he exists.

 

[skunkape]

One part of Doug's story was a total red flag for me. Over and over he claimed his brother and his wife "dont like to talk about it" and "they get too scared to discuss it."

But particularly near the end, when pressed on that, Doug said something along the lines of "she will get really upset and leave the room".

In saying this, he seemed to be overcompensating. I just cant see it playing out like that.

I dont buy for a second that he can not get them to talk about it, at least a little. People want to talk about strange things like this.

It is not unusual at all for people to remain mute following experiences like this. I have witnessed it first hand. I think it is more rare to find people who will talk about it.
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[owlman]

The reason half the folks out there with genuine encounters don't come forward is because people just don't believe them. Unless you were there and saw it with your own eyes, it ain't true .

 

[Xylo]

To me Doug seemed credible and believable in many aspects.

First is that he's not seeking anything from his experiences-no fame, no book deals, no money-all he seems to want is peace and a bit of empathy from others who may have experienced this same ordeal.

Secondly, Doug mentioned early in the episode that he was employed in the banking industry. That industry, in particular, is concerned with control and order, and making sense of patterns. Doug's experiences took him out of his own control, and he has yet to make sense out of those experiences, thus the fright. He was NOT in control of his body, his experiences, or even his emotional state during these encounters. Even further, if he discusses these events with others he is NOT in control of others' perception of him. Thus he has a great deal of reluctance to speak about these events, or have these events connected to himself in any public way, which I think is completely reasonable.

Third, Doug doesn't want to know further anything else that occurred, so he's simply not going forward into any sort of memory therapy, which is consistent with what I opined above.

I could also hear a great deal of nervousness in his voice, and as typical of those who are nervous, he seemed to jump around a bit. Then dB stepped in and was able to get Doug focused.

I don't think it is too weird that doctors would not let parents see a child for a number of days-nor that it would be suspicious to not question their decision. Remember, we are looking at this story with the perspective of now. If we look with a "then" perspective, we'll see that doctors, policemen, soldiers and political figures garnered a great deal more respect, and were almost always above reproach. So yes, I find even that part of the story to be credible.

 

[More Danny Byrd]

Could we not put these individuals under surveillance in the hopes of catching an abduction as it occurs?

I have a old, obsolete video camera which can take an image every minute until the tape runs out. It's interesting that this has never occurred to anybody undergoing regular midnight abductions. At the very least, I might tie a long string from my bed post to my ankle. People seem to be satisfied with hazy memories and mysterious implants that vanish from whatever science lab they are sent to for analysis. A sufficiently emotional delivery seems to be proof of veracity.

 

[mikec]

The issue of using a video camera to try and capture an abduction event has been tried repeatedly.

David Jacobs speaks about this often. So far, it hasn't worked.

There is one story (from the early 90's) of a woman waking up, removing the video-tape, walking to the patio, putting the tape on the bar-b-q and lighting it on fire. As she watched it burn, she came to - and realized that she had somehow been controlled to do what she did. I think this was documented in an excellent book titled CONNECTIONS.

Dave Jacob's can go on and on about his experiences with patients who try to set up a camera in their bedroom.

The video will show them waking up, and they'll walk to the camera, and turn it off. Or, they will inexplicably choose NOT to turn it on some nights. Or, they'll get out of bed and go sleep on the couch in a different room.

 

[Kieran]

Doug

I rarely find alleged abductees credible but I found Doug credible. I think the main reason why is that there were other people with him during at least two up close sightings. Of course he could be lying about everything but I got the feeling he was telling the truth. I appreciate David slowing him down and making sure he provided details- it seemed like he would occasionally start midway through a story and want to race through it. There were only two moments that gave me pause. When he claimed he was reading a book a day- and reading heady stuff like quantum mechanics, philosophy, religion, etc. I'm probably biased because I'm a slow reader but I found that hard to accept. Also, when describing the sighting in CT and David had him slow down and he said something like, "There have been so many." I'm not saying the sighting in CT didn't happen but I can't help but wonder if he has had some genuine experiences and his mind has started to fabricate others. Still, I found him to be a fascinating guest- one of the most compelling experiencers I've heard. I found the story near the end about his encounter with a hybrid intriguing and the health problems that happened as a result sounded awful. I don't know- the whole abductee phenomena is just so hard to accept. But I think Doug was essentially telling the truth.
David mentioned something about having other abductees on future episodes. I hope the Paracast is able to find some that come across as credible as Doug. I'd love to hear them.

I wouldn't disagree. Often when you read or hear stories. Where it has been alleged abductions have taken place. The story often seems far fetched. But are they all? No. But in reality, it's probably true, that some alleged abductions are less credible than others. Our friend Jim Sparks is a perfect example, He went public with this horrible nonsense. Wrote books on his alleged Abduction" 'sigh" and sold copies to people, the madness of it all. Abductions, Often you hear about people been taken aboard craft, and undergoing medical experiments, and then later seemly waking up and not remembering what had happened to them. Odd stuff. Honestly, This type of experience is more common in the United States . Then other regions of the world. Where people from other nations have come into contact with I've called unwelcome visitors. The experience often is very different to the stories told by people in the United states. Don't get me wrong, there is probably many people who have claimed to have been kidnapped by Aliens.

That have this type of experience for real , and others have created a story around what they have read somewhere or seen on TV our on a Film. Humans lie for many reasons. It's a indisputable fact of life. And ufology, has harvested and created it's own breed of people who have lied.

As for Doug. I was Tired, when I was listening to the interview. Probably need a refresher. To remind me, of what was said. Just from reading a few posts. It was mentioned that the film or the photos of a "UFO" were never returned to him, after he went to certain place to get them Developed. Not sure if I'm correct here. Sorry if that is not the case. But maybe. One of the workers. Stole it for his own pleasure. And wanted to show his friends or someone. Our maybe it got destroyed in the process. It be strange/ however. Been logical. If every other photo was perfect and returned to him, and those photos of the UFO Were missing. Still there could be a logical reason and not a sinister one.

 

[Roger]

Thanks Gene, Dave, Budd and especially Doug for this riveting story. I hope that Doug is able to slow down his story and put more details in. Good job getting him to slow down a bit. Doug was obviously very nervous and excited during showtime. I hope that Doug is able to make peace with his experiences.

There really was a lot to tell in Doug story. If I might suggest something, would it be possible to consider a two-episode format or multiple-episode format for interviews that have sooooo many details? It seems so much went unsaid.

I'd like to offer a WAG as to why UFO film gets lost, seemingly so often. Perhaps the film is rendered overexposed by proximity to the environment of the UFO. For example, if there was a high output of hard UV or X-ray light (for example) from a UFO, then film would become overexposed and then that film would be discarded by film developers as unusable or just scrap to be discarded. If we only had the specification for the spectrum of electro-magnetic emissions of UFOs!

-R

 

[Red]

I just listened to the show. I enjoyed it greatly and I don't doubt the veracity of Doug's story. I am glad that Gene and David gave the interview a softer touch. Doug was obviously not telling his story to make any money or make himself famous. I think a more skeptical or harder interview style would have been counter-productive.

 

[GDT]

This was a truly riveting episode for me. Doug sold me on his experiences, and that judgement was cemented recently after listening to Don Ecker's interview of Travis Walton over in The Best of Dark Matters Radio. When I hold Walton's delivery up next to Doug's, there's no comparison: I have no trust at all in Walton, but the opposite is true of Doug.

Thanks for the great show, Gene and Dave! I hope Doug knows there are many people who believe him and who want to support him in carrying around this burden.

Wow.. been quite a few years. It has been hard dealing with the PTSD from my experiences..

Had so many confessions from brothers whom kept quiet for 50 years... Hell, my brother, whom shared the two encounters, lost it soon after listening to the podcast... He was hospitalized after losing 4 or 5 nights sleep... I think he started having flashbacks and it was too much for him to finally face these mind bending experiences after so many years..
He is Ok... I have to admit -having him break down crying for forgiveness for not being there for me etc...was disturbingly satisfying..

My mom died, but she had already talked to Budd many years ago, as if that makes one iota of difference to any of this.

I have not been able to listen to that podcast.. Tried 3 or 4 years ago while relaxing on a tropical vacation, but shook like a little baby.. Am now sitting here in tropical SE Asia... finished some legal paper work on my retirement property earlier -and as usual -at the end of the day started surfing the net and returned to the paracast and read the comments on the show I did with Budd...

Thank you very very much to all of you whom understood my fear and emotional state.. Some of you unfortunately really understand... Ha, I had quit smoking for 2 years up until 30 minutes before that show...and must have chain smoked half a pack...

I finally had to deal with the PTSD on my own terms as it was killing me... SHOCK... I am very conservative, but ran across medical studies regarding very successful PDST treatments for veterans and the terminally, using magic mushrooms.. and viola...after a rather difficult search for this once illegal item- which grows every where around here.. I tried this treatment a few times and it worked.. For the first time in my lifetime I am free of the underlying anxiety and stress. I can look up into the sky without fear..

My brother has decided to retire as his wife is going thru chemo for cancer and he really does not need to work any more and is selling his business and its property... His business involved close consulting for financial companies and other businesses, whom would be shocked and lose trust in his judgement if he ever came forward...He doesn't care any more after the business is sold and has promised to come forward if asked. I am pretty sure his wife of almost 40 years is/has finally faced something more scary than our encounter in the desert with her cancer surgeries and chemo, so even she would be ready to talk....

BUT WHY? To convince one or two more fans of this field... or give the smart asses another chance to show how smart they are by picking out a pause or hiccup from one of them to pretend it is proof of their lies or brain damage!!

This stuff is shockly real, they walk amongst us (yea, I and others like me have met them in broad daylight) but the majority of real abductees keep quiet over fear of ridicule...and hell the nuts rule the airwaves.... (The Paracast crew is excluded from that statement.)

To you whom understand, share this unreality...I thank you for your kind words... and higjly recomend the above ancient herbal medicine that has been used by humans since the stone age... It changed my life.. I thank Gene, as I got this crazy idea listening to a paracast show...

I will check in once in a while to share with like minded people,...

I owe it to Budd- as that is why he spent so much time to talk me into that show in the first place.... in order to help others like myself, whom suffer alone and in silence.