C2C, 2-22-15: Hrs 1-2, Jacques Vallee—Hrs 3-4 Ray Stanford!

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

I'll ask Ray about his promise to provide the audio of the call.

THANKS. Ray needs to keep his word, and three years is long enough to wait. Remind Ray that his health can fail at any time; he can lose his ability to accomplish anything more if he falls ill or gets injured or becomes frail no matter what his will power is now. It will be lost at some point during old age. Death is a certainty.

BTW, I realize you don't care...

Ray can release his photos and films, so WE can all "care"...

Does Ray have A LOT more "UFO value" than the Pantry of Socorro [a book] or his 1985 film of probable NASA/military tests, which he refuses to release to the public 30 years later, then I might be seriously interested. [This has nothing to do with national security anymore.]

The problem with Socorro is that the shorter height individuals [humans] had some type of clothing: "white coveralls", and 2) they had a common human response: The shorter humans must have seen me, 'cause when they turned and looked straight at my car, they seemed startled -- almost seemed to jump somewhat."

There is an airport or military bases or experimental "test ranges" within usual flying range of this UFO sighting? Yes! So, the policeman caught some experimental military craft on the ground that was able to escape in the air, or it was an elaborate hoax! We're still not talking ET Aliens unless you imagine ET visiting in white overalls and look to be short humans that typically freak-out when seeing the cops pull-up.

Do you believe in Santa Clause too?

Play "the odds". Debate "the odds". No matter what, the original police report says nothing about these short white overall clothed individuals to be nothing more than HUMANS with a typical "fear response" upon seeing the policeman pull-up. Mr. policeman never said these were NOT humans. Just seemed short, clothed in white coveralls [or jumpsuits], and were startled enough to jump at the sight of his police car. Whatever. They were able to make a getaway, and I could really care less whether it was a hoax or some tricked-out military craft...

What IS very interesting... is WHY are these Socorro [or 1985 Ray's film] cases made out to be ET's and their UFO's??? That is very interesting! IF you're being smart about this, imo, then you will explore all the angles about WHY people are promoting this propaganda. This has more to do with science fiction, and military propaganda, and faith and belief systems, and religion, and mind's eye visions, and the REAL military UFO's, and, don't forget, billions in Hollywood entertainment related programming, more than anything else, except that Humans have ALSO always believed in the Gods and our ancestors or spacebrothers are coming from somewhere often pointing straight up "from above" into the heavens or another dimension too. The sky people. Altered states of mind often accompany such experiences too!

 

[Stagger Lee]

In defense of Zamora- he was a police officer who had to make a report of an unusual craft and it's occupants. You couldn't expect him to use such language as "humanoids" ..naturally, he would have to refer to them as "humans" -I don't know what it was he witnessed, but his is only one of many reports that included strange craft and humanoid occupants. In his case, he was at such a distance unable to make out specific features. There is a Humanoid data base website which chronicles many such cases in and outside the U.S. It's been a while, maybe someone else can post a link.

 

[manxman]

Some people forget to view the event thru zamora's eyes, whilst stood in his police issue boots.

ere boss 'guess what'.

 

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

In defense of Zamora- he was a police officer who had to make a report of an unusual craft and it's occupants. [...] In his case, he was at such a distance unable to make out specific features. There is a Humanoid data base website which chronicles many such cases in and outside the U.S.

Yes, but. Pay very close attention to these two critical aspects too:

1) Their clothing was human too: "white coveralls", and 2) They had a common human response: They [shorter humans] must have seen me, 'cause when they turned and looked straight at my car, they seemed startled -- almost seemed to jump somewhat."

This clearly adds-up to Humans doing this vs ET's. IMO.

Otherwise, we have ET's that look and dress as Humans do, and, also, are acting fearful or startled like Humans do when spotting a police car not wanting to be discovered or seen. I've heard of no other well documented UFO sightings wherein ET's are doing this.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... then ET is a duck too???

 

[manxman]

Your good you are, i bet you can even tell us the brand.

Sophistry at its finest, and said with such authority, a whole post built on the false premise of 'human clothing', solely for argumentation's sake.

Cosmic rabbits get startled and jump, they wear white bunny suits, couldnt be anything else.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Yes, but. Pay very close attention to these two critical aspects too:

1) Their clothing was human too: "white coveralls", and 2) They had a common human response: They [shorter humans] must have seen me, 'cause when they turned and looked straight at my car, they seemed startled -- almost seemed to jump somewhat."

This clearly adds-up to Humans doing this vs ET's. IMO.

Otherwise, we have ET's that look and dress as Humans do, and, also, are acting fearful or startled like Humans do when spotting a police car not wanting to be discovered or seen. I've heard of no other well documented UFO sightings wherein ET's are doing this.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... then ET is a duck too???

Maybe humans. Again, to be fair- his report matches many other reports of ufo/humanoid encounters -coveralls, small height, shape of craft. So it goes both ways.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Let's not forget the real mystery of Zamora's sighting. Research went to great lengths to find the vehicle described by Lonnie. It was thought that some group discovered or were testing a new type of propulsion system. No match was found, and no one has ever come forward. Only a recent, ridiculous theory that some students of a near by Tech School used a balloon to hoax Zamora. If it wasn't a cop who stumbled onto the scene, we may never have heard much about this case. I think it's an insult to say the officer was fooled by an experimental balloon.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Wendy Conners archive has an interview with Lonnie Zamora where he clearly states that they didn't seem human. https://archive.org/details/CEIIIHumanoidEncountersGuide
Track 11
If Ray Sanford has an image of the vehicle/craft that would be awesome. And supposedly Hynek also took one showing the same craft.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

 

[Burnt State]

Ray Stanford has had a long and colorful history which has included some exceptional real life fossil finds that no other paleontologist could when they were right there, out in the open for anyone to see. Can he do the same for UFO's.?

While in the past he did make some extraordinary claims, but then the paranormal field was rather wide open at the time and interdisciplinary experimentation seemed to be a lot more commonplace than today. If anything, we've seen a specialization in various fields, including the extraction of the UFO conundrum from other paranormal experiences such as poltergeists, ghosts, cryptos, and communicating with the dead. This may have been a poor decision, concentrating and fragmenting thinking in these different areas, when connections between them might be a better path of scrutiny & discovery.

Can Stanford see UFO's and photograph them repeatedly where others can not? That's a tall order IMHO but we have reports that he does in fact have the goods, that he studies the skies and has made findings that could revolutionize the field. These claims appear to be based on the actual existence of material objects, craft in our skies demonstrating their ability to manipulate matter in ways we do not have the capacity to replicate. That would be something.

Zamora's case is still landmark in ufology, and it could just as easily have been bunnies in overalls.

 

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

[...]a whole post built on the false premise of 'human clothing', solely for argumentation's sake.

False. Short humans dressed in human clothing of a specific type and color, and, also, quoting: "2) They had a common human response: They [shorter humans] must have seen me, 'cause when they turned and looked straight at my car, they seemed startled -- almost seemed to jump somewhat."

Lastly, it is very likely Mr. Policeman knew of military tests involving flying objects [of many types] in that region of the country, and he had heard of "Flying Saucers" too being a policeman. He would hear it all.

His report used the word balloon and indicates typical [but short] Humans. He doesn't say ET's or Alien craft.

Believers will typically say that a duck that quacks and walks like a duck are ET's too. Why? Belief in any possibility no matter how remote and unlikely the odds.

 

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

If Ray Sanford has an image of the vehicle/craft that would be awesome. And supposedly Hynek also took one showing the same craft.

IF TRUE, then this would indicate FRAUD if the intent is to prove an ET UFO. IMO. Why? An ET UFO is NOT going to stick around for Ray or Hynek to take photos at a later date. That's just "staged bs", a fool's prop and special effect, meant "to prove" and affirm to the "I want to believe" religious and faithful that will easily fall prey to their "propaganda agenda" for the ET UFO.

More quacking walking ducks that will always be ET's UFO too!

 

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

Ray Stanford has had a long and colorful history which has included some exceptional real life fossil finds that no other paleontologist could when they were right there, out in the open for anyone to see. Can he do the same for UFO's?

No way, IMO. Why? He's had 50+ years to do that already! He's full of it...

Ray's "ground track" findings can be found and located, as you say "out in the open for anyone to see". Ray never does that with his UFO photos and film that seem to be mostly focused on his 1985 Super 8 film. What else does Ray really have that is up close with plenty of visual details? I don't think Ray has much of anything else since 1985... well, does he??? IF yes, then WHY didn't the Paracast show highlight that 2-3 years ago OR on C2C this last Sunday night about 3 days ago???

 

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

Let's not forget the real mystery of Zamora's sighting. Research went to great lengths to find the vehicle described by Lonnie. It was thought that some group discovered or were testing a new type of propulsion system. No match was found, and no one has ever come forward.

IF it was a secret military aircraft, then it would most likely remain secret and nothing would be found out about it. There were a lot of exotic "concept aircraft" and "one of a kind" designs that would be tested and trashed. Also, this could still be a hoax, and it could also be some kind of experimental craft that someone built besides the military. It is possible to build and fly your own experimental aircraft in the USA. Many private pilots do this numbering in the thousands today.

 

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

Wendy Conners archive has an interview with Lonnie Zamora where he clearly states that they didn't seem human.

No. He did not clearly say: "they didn't seem human". He called them "white objects" in coveralls. You hear what 'you' want to believe. You have to ALSO read his police report BEFORE the radio station interview to get the details. Why? Zamora is already being "micro-managed" by the military when he goes to the radio station. He won't comment on the insignia, because "they" told me not to. Etc. WHY believe something that you're already getting as "stage managed" by someone else! It's the military for gosh sakes. Heck, the military was monitoring what he said during that interview too! He said he had to leave to talk to the military, next, immediately after he ended the interview.

Also, he ran away afraid of the noise and flame, when it took off, so he admits he can't say much detail about any of this. It happened too fast. It moved off low before gaining altitude at some distance from where it took off.

It's wonderful to have a great imagination. Radio really helps out with those quacking walking ducks. ET's UFO's are everywhere. Quack, quack.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

No. He did not clearly say: "they didn't seem human". He called them "white objects" in coveralls. You hear what 'you' want to believe. You have to ALSO read his police report BEFORE the radio station interview to get the details. Why? Zamora is already being "micro-managed" by the military when he goes to the radio station. He won't comment on the insignia, because "they" told me not to. Etc. WHY believe something that you're already getting as "stage managed" by someone else! It's the military for gosh sakes. Heck, the military was monitoring what he said during that interview too! He said he had to leave to talk to the military, next, immediately after he ended the interview.

Also, he ran away afraid of the noise and flame, when it took off, so he admits he can't say much detail about any of this. It happened too fast. It moved off low before gaining altitude at some distance from where it took off.

It's wonderful to have a great imagination. Radio really helps out with those quacking walking ducks. ET's UFO's are everywhere. Quack, quack.

When asked if he saw two people, he said "No sir, I couldn't say they were people , I just, I saw something white coveralls" but you couldn't identify them as being a human being like you or I, "no sir."
Nice how you take an interview and spin it all over the place from an emotional state rather than a factual state....kinda like Klass the ass!

 

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

When asked if he saw two people, he said "No sir, I couldn't say they were people , I just, I saw something white coveralls" but you couldn't identify them as being a human being like you or I, "no sir."
Nice how you take an interview and spin it all over the place from an emotional state rather than a factual state....kinda like Klass the ass!

Repeating from my post:

Zamora called them "white objects" in coveralls. That's NOT what he said or wrote elsewhere. You hear what 'you' want to believe. You have to ALSO read his police report BEFORE the radio station interview to get the details. Why? Zamora is already being "micro-managed" by the military when he goes to the radio station.

That's the problem with a quack a duck too. One will just notice and select the one quack to prove a belief, and, then, conveniently ignore completely the entire context of all the quacking that took place too! That was a worthless interview, IMO, since Zamora was already military micro-managed. My gosh, the micro-management was obvious and admitted to on air. That's EXACTLY WHY Zamora became so vague and less detailed about what he saw! Quack, quack.

 

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

Nice how you take an interview and spin it all over the place from an emotional state rather than a factual state....kinda like Klass the ass!

Besides my post just above in response to your comments quoted here "just above" I need to offer some more information that explains further WHY Zamora says "white objects" on a radio show that IS micro-managed by the military and is BS. Pure propaganda. Use an authority figure to lie on behalf of patriotism and National Security, and the ducks can become anything! Quack, quack.

Ray Stanford: "By contrast, he had talked very freely about them to Dr. J. Allen Hynek and me, along with State Police Sergeant Samuel Chavez, who was the fourth and only other person allowed at the site on the morning of April 29, 1964, the fifth day after the landing. [See for reference, page 61 of the U.S. hard-cover edition of my book on the case.]"

Ray continues: As things had happened, sometime after 7:00 P.M. on the evening after Zamora's terrifying encounter, Federal Bureau of Investigations agent J. Arthur Byrnes, Jr., had interrogated the witness. Upon hearing Zamora tell in no uncertain terms that he had seen the two diminutive, white-clad, bipedal beings standing right beside the NW landing leg of the craft and with their head tops coming to only "well below" (Zamora's words) the 5' 2" creosote bust's uppermost part, the F.B.I. agent firmly told Zamora (The words are reported here exactly as Zamore later confessed them to me.), "It will be better if you don't publicly mention seeing the two small figures in white. No one will believe you anyhow."

Ray continues: Now please note the following fact carefully: ZAMORA AGREED NOT TO TELL about the "as though in white coveralls", diminutive beings he had seen by the creosote bush, adjacent to the NW landing strut. Zamora had served in the U.S. army, and respecting government authority, had taken his promise to the F.B.I. agent as an oath to officialdom. Resultantly, until later when Zamora got suspicious that the government was trying to hide something they didn't want the public to learn about, when asked about his initial description of the beings, would simply say things like, "Well, I did see something like a couple of pairs of white coveralls, kinda' like hanging on a clothesline, you know..." He never explained how one of the two pair of coveralls, upon seeing his police car top the mesa, had, "...jumped, kinda' like startled, you know..." Personally, I think the white coveralls hanging on a clothesline comment was really just a sarcastic quip, because of the non-disclosure promise agent Byrnes had extracted from him. Whatever its origin, Hynek referred to it in his media conference on April 29, in a continuing government attempt to obfuscate the sighting of very much alive humanoids occupying those 'coveralls'.
===========================================

This whole incident becomes propaganda for specific agendas once Hynek and Stanford are involved within 5 days after the sighting. At least Zamora is on record saying these "people" [because he assumed so, and YES, that is a fact... possible car crash, etc.] were below 5'2" in height. There are plenty of 4 foot tall adults, and I think the military uses short people for all kinds of specialized missions too! Furthermore, depending on angle of view, and distance, and Zamora's very limited short viewing time, then Zamora's height estimate can easily be off by a foot or more. It's just an estimate from only seconds of viewing time at a far distance recalled from memory several days later too!

Get Ray Stanford and Hynek there within 5 days of this sighting, and this whole incident becomes extremely suspect. It's propaganda. It's ET's and their UFO's too! Ducks quack and ducks walk, and, not so coincidentally, ducks fly and get photographed at just the right moment and become flying saucers too! Take that picture against a full moon at night, and you have "a flock" of ET UFO's flying formation too! LOL. Quack, quack.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

IF TRUE, then this would indicate FRAUD if the intent is to prove an ET UFO. IMO. Why? An ET UFO is NOT going to stick around for Ray or Hynek to take photos at a later date. That's just "staged bs", a fool's prop and special effect, meant "to prove" and affirm to the "I want to believe" religious and faithful that will easily fall prey to their "propaganda agenda" for the ET UFO. More quacking walking ducks that will always be ET's UFO too!

You are wrong in this instance. The object shows up in TWO photos. Ray has a shot taken simultaneously of Hynek taking a short and both photos appear to show a small object way in the distance. Is it a "UFO?" I don't know, but there is a strong possibility. FWIW: here is another photo (taken some months later) that has what appear to be three craft hovering just above the horizon.

No way, IMO. Why? He's had 50+ years to do that already! He's full of it... Ray never does that with his UFO photos and film that seem to be mostly focused on his 1985 Super 8 film. What else does Ray really have that is up close with plenty of visual details? I don't think Ray has much of anything else since 1985... well, does he??? IF yes, then WHY didn't the Paracast show highlight that 2-3 years ago OR on C2C this last Sunday night about 3 days ago???

You are quacking out your tail pipe. Obviously, you showed up here at the Paracast to insult, demean and belittle Stanford. You are making statements that are patently untrue (Ray has dozens of other films and photos he is analyzing for his presentation). Cease and desist w/ this already, please. I'm asking nicely. I won't ask again.

 

[Open-Minded-Earthling]

Ray has dozens of other films and photos he is analyzing for his presentation...

That's news to everyone except for "you insiders", I guess, you're referencing his presentation??? Is this a public invited presentation? Any dates set? That will be shocking, if true.