Be Afraid

[mike]

Another classic

Ergo god must be real....................

(warning, graphic proof of the stupidity of the above Church sign)

http://photos.uc.wisc.edu/photos/809/original/Human_brain_hands00_2.jpg?1286760827

I mean....... THIS ? is their logic. Its so full of fail its scary

 

[mike]

If you thought the reason is the enemy was a one off.......

http://25.media.tumblr.com/j1UWJ61uw6gkumbjx1dHjzJm_500.jpg

http://montaraventures.com/blog/wp-content/2010/01/reasonenemyoffaith.jpg

http://caudallure.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/8076_341056525965210_1265856068_n.jpg

Beware of reason

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_h-pUKym_Obw/SO1tAy7bO8I/AAAAAAAAAOA/AYNmGmGQkBg/s320/churchsign.jpg

Given this is such a prevailing sentiment, yeah be afraid.

Anyone who discards reason, can no longer be reasoned with

 

[Burnt State]

You know there was a time once when Christian religion rejected blind faith and demanded that believers used their rational mind to find reasons to believe in god, but I'm sure Aquinas would've gone the way of Copernicus, Galileo etc. if he pushed rationalism to other conclusions. My favourite quote from that old sexist: "Sorrow can be alleviated by a good sleep, a bath and a glass of wine."

 

[Burnt State]

Not sure if you'll get this response in time, but can you clarify a bit about what "mechanism" you are referring to?

I'm referring to 'mechanism' metaphorically. When we collect witness reports and group these together we think about the mechanics of how and why the phenomenon functions as it does? The reports suggest such things as a technology that appears like magic to us in terms of shifting dimensions, ability to dissolve etc. The notion that it appears to be almost putting on a show for our benefit and always staying just beyond our reach suggests some kind of control system.(Vallee) This notion suggests we are witnessing something that is not just a nuts and bolts craft and that its trickster nature suggests that the show might be for the benefit of distraction. This keeps us humans busy scratching our heads so we don't clue in perhaps to a reality that is just beyond our senses (kind of a Mac Tonnies sort of thing). There is also the bizarre set of reports where some people in a crowd witness a craft and others see nothing, suggesting there is an interaction between the phenomenon and other select human commonalities. What do these features suggest? What are their implications?

 

[Randall]

So if I'm understanding you, Heavens Gate or the Raelians didn't spring from a study of UFO's? That sounds like the Chicken or the Egg argument kind of. Sort of.
Wait a sec. Are you saying that Ufology as a scientific discipline hasn't spawned religious followings?
Or just an interest and general study of UFO's didn't lead to the Church of the Divine Space Brother?

I interjected an opportunity in the round table for a segueway, but nobody bit, so here's my response:

Let's make a quick comparision of the three examples:

1. Raëlism has its origins in an alleged contactee scenario between a Frenchman named Claude Vorhillon and aliens at the Puy De La Solas volcano of France that led to Vorhillon changing his name, declaring himself a prophet and starting a religion around that experience.
2. Heaven’s Gate was a cybersect led by Marshall Applewhite who claimed to have had an NDE, and combined elements of Judeo Christian Revelation with science fiction. Among the victims was Thomas Nichols, brother of actress Nichelle Nichols, who played Uhura in the original Star Trek TV series.
3. Ufology arose out of the United States Air Force in the late 1940s when scientists and engineers at the Air Technical Intelligence Center at Wright Patterson Air Force Base began objective studies into the reports of flying craft that didn’t match the appearance or flight performance of any known natural or manmade object of the day. The first projects spanned around twenty years and involved other scientists on both sides of the UFO debate including Astronomer J. Allen Hynek and astrologist Carl Sagan.

Clearly what we see when we examine the origins of these three examples are entirely separate processes, and therefore we need to be careful not to short circuit the connections. To try to illustrate further, the Raelians and Heaven's gate were also reported in the general news media. Does that automatically make the general media part of the Raelians or Heaven's Gate? Certainly not. Ufology is simply another process that specializes in examining issues that surround the topic of UFOs.

Lastly, ufology isn't a scientific discipline and never will be because the full array of subject matter that makes up ufology as a whole extends well beyond the range of the scientific method. Nevertheless that doesn't make ufology any less objective in terms of observation, analysis and reporting. For example, one might compare the core work to investigative journalism. Observations are made, facts gathered, and reports written. Sometimes there can be a lot of editorializing and theorizing, but that in no way should be confused with either religion or science.

 

[Randall]

I'm referring to 'mechanism' metaphorically. When we collect witness reports and group these together we think about the mechanics of how and why the phenomenon functions as it does? The reports suggest such things as a technology that appears like magic to us in terms of shifting dimensions, ability to dissolve etc. The notion that it appears to be almost putting on a show for our benefit and always staying just beyond our reach suggests some kind of control system.(Vallee) This notion suggests we are witnessing something that is not just a nuts and bolts craft and that its trickster nature suggests that the show might be for the benefit of distraction. This keeps us humans busy scratching our heads so we don't clue in perhaps to a reality that is just beyond our senses (kind of a Mac Tonnies sort of thing). There is also the bizarre set of reports where some people in a crowd witness a craft and others see nothing, suggesting there is an interaction between the phenomenon and other select human commonalities. What do these features suggest? What are their implications?

Although we're not at the point where we can solve the UFO puzzle, we have made progress. For example we've established the framework and various bits and pieces have come together to reveal a few clear segments, but we still don't know how they relate to the unified whole. Where does this leave us with respect to the UFO enigma? In my opinion there is a very high probability that all of the items below are true.

1. UFOs have consistently demonstrated flight performance superior to manmade craft.
2. UFOs have demonstrated other advanced capabilities suggestive of active camouflage, sensors and weaponry.
3. UFOs range in size from hundreds of feet in diameter to only a few inches.
4. The lack of evidence for an Earth based construction program strongly suggests that UFOs are not created on Earth.
5. Combined factors suggest that we're dealing with large alien carrier type craft capable of dispatching shuttles and drones.

Beyond the items above, we start to get into heavy speculation about phenomena that may or may not be directly connected with UFOs.

 

[Burnt State]

1. UFOs have consistently demonstrated flight performance superior to manmade craft.
2. UFOs have demonstrated other advanced capabilities suggestive of active camouflage, sensors and weaponry.
3. UFOs range in size from hundreds of feet in diameter to only a few inches.
4. The lack of evidence for an Earth based construction program strongly suggests that UFOs are not created on Earth.
5. Combined factors suggest that we're dealing with large alien carrier type craft capable of dispatching shuttles and drones.

Beyond the items above, we start to get into heavy speculation about phenomena that may or may not be directly connected with UFOs.

This framework appears to be rooted in a very nuts and bolts caft, ETH. What would you say is the percentage of craft that are reported, with evidence identifying them as actual solid caft, and what would that reported evidence be?

Justifiable speculation around a great number of witness reports seems to suggest that our senses are being manipulated in some way so as to give the appearance of solid caft. The non-sensical and surreal reports seem to suggest that there is something more complicated going on than merely superior technology.

Who would you point to as serious theorists endorsing a physical technology and ETH? Who would you describe as just engaging in heavy speculation?

 

[Randall]

This framework appears to be rooted in a very nuts and bolts caft, ETH. What would you say is the percentage of craft that are reported, with evidence identifying them as actual solid caft, and what would that reported evidence be?

I don't have a statistical breakdown handy. However the reports where what is seen clearly looks and behaves like an intelligently controlled object, and in particular the radar/visual reports.

Justifiable speculation around a great number of witness reports seems to suggest that our senses are being manipulated in some way so as to give the appearance of solid caft. The non-sensical and surreal reports seem to suggest that there is something more complicated going on than merely superior technology.

If our senses give us the impression that there is something solid in our field of view, there is a very high probability that there is. I'm not sure what you mean by "non-sensical and surreal", but active camouflage can explain a large amount of strangeness.

Who would you point to as serious theorists endorsing a physical technology and ETH? Who would you describe as just engaging in heavy speculation?

That depends on what you mean by "serious theorist". If we are to make that synonymous with "scientific theory" and investigation, then I don't think we have any really good examples. The closest might have been Hynek, but if I recall correctly, although he may have been sympathetic to the ETH, he never made an explicit endorsement of it. If we are using the word "theory" in a more casual sense, I'd say that Friedman is a serious proponent of the ETH. He is a genuine scientist who has worked on nuclear propulsion and who often points out why the reasons the skeptics give against interstellar travel aren't as sound as they'd like to believe. I'm personally a proponent of the ETH to the extent that they don't come from Earth, but their exact origin is still in the realm of speculation.

Regarding speculation in general, I don't know any ufologist who doesn't engage in speculation. However speculation isn't a bad thing so long as it's kept in that context. My problem is when speculation or even personal experience turns into absolutist statements that aren't based on sufficient logic or other evidence. Examples of such are the abductee/contactee cases. Even if these people are having genuine experiences, I don't think that simply taking the accounts at face value is wise. The overwhelming nature of such an experience could conceivably lead a person to blindly accept what they are being told as true, when in fact it could be some form of disinformation. Similarly messages that seem to be based in fact might also be used as a sort of propaganda tool.

For example, one of John Mack's cases involved aliens displaying a series of beautiful natural wonders juxtaposed with the environmental crimes of humans. This is no different than eco-propaganda. I'm all for environmental responsibility, but at least our own exposés on nature also show the savage side. The lovely and graceful impala standing in the tall grass will get eaten by a lion, the beautiful snow capped mountain can erupt and spread death and destruction over a wide area. Nature's fury is nothing to be trifled with and most of our efforts have been to improve our otherwise weak ability to protect ourselves from it, and to advance our civilization. But the alien messages never give us credit for that. Meanwhile they allegedly fly around in giant mother ships casting judgment without sharing any of the technology that could help us drastically reduce our eco-footprint. In the face of these things it's only natural for any rational person to be wary of the claims. Still, I don't think it can be reasonably denied that something strange is going on.,

 

[stonehart]

and this is what you get when a nation is run as a monarch backed theocracy.

Saudi shops to build sex-segregation walls

 

[stonehart]

If you thought the reason is the enemy was a one off.......

http://25.media.tumblr.com/j1UWJ61uw6gkumbjx1dHjzJm_500.jpg

http://montaraventures.com/blog/wp-content/2010/01/reasonenemyoffaith.jpg

http://caudallure.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/8076_341056525965210_1265856068_n.jpg

Beware of reason

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_h-pUKym_Obw/SO1tAy7bO8I/AAAAAAAAAOA/AYNmGmGQkBg/s320/churchsign.jpg

Given this is such a prevailing sentiment, yeah be afraid.

Anyone who discards reason, can no longer be reasoned with

That last one simply makes me shudder as it reminds me of my own sister and well to be honest my whole family.

 

[RenaissanceLady]

And this is what is being taught in our own country, when the government starts teaching its own version of theocracy:

Texas Schools Teaching Kids That Blacks, Jews Are Inferior

The religious right is constantly trying to sneak the Bible into secular schools under the guise of “diversity” or “academic freedom.” They are opposed by civil rights organizations at every step because it is a small step from “teaching” to “preaching.”

Yet, in 2007, Texas passed a law that “encouraged” (read as: give license to go nuts) public schools to educate students about the role the Bible has played in society and literature. Shockingly, the guidelines set down by the law to prevent proselytization were completely ignored. The result?

This kind of child abuse (yeah, I went there) :

• Instructional material in two school districts teach that racial diversity today can be traced back to Noah’s sons, a long-discredited claim that has been a foundational component of some forms of racism.
• Religious bias is common, with most courses taught from a Protestant — often a conservative Protestant — perspective. One course, for example, assumes Christians will at some point be “raptured.” Materials include a Venn diagram showing the pros and cons of theories that posit the rapture before the returning Jesus’ 1,000-year reign and those that place it afterward. In many courses, the perspectives of Roman Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Jews are often left out.
• Anti-Jewish bias — intentional or not — is not uncommon. Some courses even portray Judaism as a flawed and incomplete religion that has been replaced by Christianity.
• Many courses suggest or openly claim that the Bible is literally true. “The Bible is the written word of God,” students are told in one PowerPoint presentation. Some courses go so far as to suggest that the Bible can be used to verify events in history. One district, for example, teaches students that the Bible’s historical claims are largely beyond question by listing biblical events side-by-side with historical developments from around the globe.
• Course materials in numerous classes are designed to evangelize rather than provide an objective study of the Bible’s influence. A book in one district makes its purpose clear in the preface: “May this study be of value to you. May you fully come to believe that ‘Jesus is the Christ, the son of God.’ And may you have ‘life in His name.’”
• A number of courses teach students that the Bible proves Earth is just 6,000 years old.
• Students are taught that the United States is a Christian nation founded on the Christian biblical principles taught in their classrooms.
• Academic rigor is so poor that many courses rely mostly on memorization of Bible verses and factoids from Bible stories rather than teaching students how to analyze what they are studying. One district relies heavily on Bible cartoons from Hanna-Barbera for its high school class. Students in another district spend two days watching what lesson plans describe as “the historic documentary Ancient Aliens,” which presents “a new interpretation of angelic beings described as extraterrestrials.”

And that’s not even all of the offenses being carried out using tax payer dollars.

For the full story, please read: Texas Schools Teaching Kids That Blacks, Jews Are Inferior | Addicting Info

 

[exo_doc]

"Sorrow can be alleviated by a good sleep, a bath and a glass of wine."

How about just drinking the whole bottle of wine, passing out, and having a bucket of water thrown on you? Does that count?

 

[stonehart]

And this is what is being taught in our own country, when the government starts teaching its own version of theocracy:




For the full story, please read: Texas Schools Teaching Kids That Blacks, Jews Are Inferior | Addicting Info

Not sure really what to say about this except it scares me that these people have guns and money...

I guess its strange for me living in NZ as skin color never registers with me, don't care if you are pink. purple, black,white or poker dot, there is racism here but its marginal and frowned upon by the good majority of people.

But actively teaching it!! wow that's a big step backwards

 

[Muadib]

Not sure really what to say about this except it scares me that these people have guns and money...

I guess its strange for me living in NZ as skin color never registers with me, don't care if you are pink. purple, black,white or poker dot, there is racism here but its marginal and frowned upon by the good majority of people.

But actively teaching it!! wow that's a big step backwards

As much as people like to pretend it's not there, racism is still a big problem in America. Religion has a lot to do with that, it's not just the fundamentalist Christians that teach it either, Mormons believe the same crap along with several other variations on Christianity. Black people were cursed with black skin by god for not participating in some heavenly war or some such nonsense. That people still believe shit like that in 2013 is frightening.

 

[Burnt State]

As much as people like to pretend it's not there, racism is still a big problem in America... That people still believe shit like that in 2013 is frightening.

What, you mean racism isn't a Globalist Agenda 21 conspiracy designed to take away jobs and guns from white males while forcing them to recycle and support a New World Feminist Order?

What's more frightening is a man carrying a Tea Party sign, with gun on hip and dangling an Obama monkey doll. That just terrified me. This whole political intertwining of religion and education is a dangerous mix.

 

[Muadib]

What, you mean racism isn't a Globalist Agenda 21 conspiracy designed to take away jobs and guns from white males while forcing them to recycle and support a New World Feminist Order?

What's more frightening is a man carrying a Tea Party sign, with gun on hip and dangling an Obama monkey doll. That just terrified me. This whole political intertwining of religion and education is a dangerous mix.

How about this one:

And of course, anyone who even suggests that some of these people may be motivated by racism is immediately marginalized. Whether we want to admit it or not, a large portion of our population is simply stuck in the past and refuses to see that society has left them in the dust where they belong. As unfortunate as it is, especially in the South, religion and racism often go hand in hand, a dangerous mix indeed.

 

[Burnt State]

I don't have a statistical breakdown handy. However the reports where what is seen clearly looks and behaves like an intelligently controlled object, and in particular the radar/visual reports.

If our senses give us the impression that there is something solid in our field of view, there is a very high probability that there is. I'm not sure what you mean by "non-sensical and surreal", but active camouflage can explain a large amount of strangeness.

I guess I'm very interested in certain features of witness reports that suggest the intention for UFO visibility and/or contact events are always complicated by a sense of surrealism i.e. the gigantic multi football field sized motherships; the non-sensical near misses of planes, the appearance/reappearance sightings; and odd reports where witnesses are immobilized, see different things than other witnesses where the phenomenon appear to be interacting in confusing ways with our sensory pereceptions.

How many of these are projections, holographic hallucinations and what's the point of such silly encounters repeated again and again in a multiplicity of ship sizes, shapes etc? It suggests that we're witnessing some kind of performance or theatrical enterprise no?

 

[stonehart]

This has a bit on Christians in it and is worth watching for what it is.. it fits this thread .. Be Afraid.

 

[Burnt State]

"God hates bags of GMO green beans!" After watching this it was confirmed for me that the whole anti-environmental, Anti-Globalist movement is a direct invention by companies like Monsanto to keep the many suspicious folk busy carrying out their corporate agenda on their behalf. It's insidiously ingenious really, convincing the masses that corporate values are somehow the ordinary citizen's values. A blow for reason everywhere.

 

[Randall]

I guess I'm very interested in certain features of witness reports that suggest the intention for UFO visibility and/or contact events are always complicated by a sense of surrealism i.e. the gigantic multi football field sized motherships; the non-sensical near misses of planes, the appearance/reappearance sightings; and odd reports where witnesses are immobilized, see different things than other witnesses where the phenomenon appear to be interacting in confusing ways with our sensory pereceptions.

How many of these are projections, holographic hallucinations and what's the point of such silly encounters repeated again and again in a multiplicity of ship sizes, shapes etc? It suggests that we're witnessing some kind of performance or theatrical enterprise no?

Assuming that the types of reports you mention are not fabrications, misidentifications and all the rest, the theories below offer plausible explanations:

Giant craft are thought to be carriers ( mother ships ). If we're dealing with interstellar travelers that use a point A to point b approach over long periods of time, then a large self-sufficient craft makes sense for the transport of living beings. It also offers an explanation for the various smaller craft ( shuttles and probes ). Appearance and reappearance can be explained by instantaneous hypersonic acceleration/deceleration and/or active camouflage. The near misses with aircraft seem to indicate random encounters where the UFO's auto-navigation steers the craft around whatever happens to be in the UFO's flight path.

Cases where witnesses report substantially different perceptions from the same event are not frequent. The most likely explanations are errors in reporting and/or analysis and that the event was more complex than assumed. For example there may have been more than one craft, or the craft had the ability to change appearance ( active camouflage ). Other possibilities include some sort of neurological interference. Theories on neurological influence include natural or induced chemical or electromagnetic influence.