BoyintheMachine
Paranormal Maven
Hey everyone,
I just wanted to let people know I was banned at the UFO Collective Google Group, which was supposed to be the continuation of UFO Updates. I was banned because I told a debunker that I wouldn't engage in a flame war with them and recommend they go to a debunking group. I had already been tipped off the day before that I was going to be banned by a guy there who said that he uncovered that the group owner and moderator had tricked everyone and the UFO Collective group is a debunking group. I asked him what he meant and he revealed that the owner and moderator supported CSICOP and The Skeptical Inquirer and that on his Facebook page he had them as well as other skeptic groups listed. So we talked further and it just started to click. We were all tricked into joining a debunking group.
My friend Micah attempted to post something in my defense and to warn people that it's a debunking group but Isaac Koi, the owner/mod/debunker has switched it to every message has to be approved by him. My friend's message will likely not see the light of day and he will probably be banned as well. So I'm going to post his reply here so that people can be made aware of the situation.
***********
Can Someone Please Answer These Questions?
1. Why does Isaac Koi, the group owner and moderator, have on his favorites on his Facebook page, "The Skeptical Inquirer (CISCOP)?" He also lists a couple of other skeptical organizations and sites. I think we both know the word "skeptical" here is code for debunker.
2. Why does Isaac Koi allow debunkers to post whatever mean-spirited things they want to say yet he banned a member who has been with UFO Updates since 2005 because he refused to get into a flame war? Why did Isaac Koi praise a debunker at the same time that he banned the member?
3. Why did Jeff Ritzmann attack Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs and Mr. Gammon for their views on alien abduction when he himself claims that an alien in a toga or robe gave him magical fractals? Why is Clueless Wonder, a debunker, quoting and using Jeff Ritzmann at his debunking UFOs blog, as if Jeff Rittzmann is now a debunker too? Does he not know about the magical fractals and that Jeff Rittzmann is not debunking alien abduction, but rather that which is different from his own claims of alien abduction?
4. Why did Jenny Randles criticize Budd Hopkins for using hypnosis and then turn around and try to bring NDEs into the mix? Is that supposed to make sense? I'm tired of these people here who think it's perfectly fine for them to criticize someone but that we shouldn't criticize them for their claims as well. Mrs. Randles, there is no connection between alien abduction and NDEs, at least not the kind that you propose and you are playing into the hands of the debunkers who are laughing at you for making their job easier. You are literally assisting the debunkers.
5. Why does Kevin Randle always pop his head up when someone is trying to debunk alien abduction? Why does Kevin Randle support the ETH on his blog but debunks pretty much everything and everyone in public elsewhere? When will Kevin Randle learn that his same arguments can be used to debunk his research into Roswell? Both alien abduction and Roswell are based on witness testimony. I'm just tired of Kevin Randle's schizo view of Ufology where he can debunk anything he wants but acts like his research is off limits. Debunker, debunk thyself! I know he didn't factor hardly anything into this discussion but he sure as hell popped up his head, like he always does, every time any one attempts to debunk alien abduction. It's like he puts on his bib, grabs his fork and spoon and comes to the feast. How very shallow and hypocritical of you. These same debunkers that you support will turn against you. You are not safe from their debunking. You are merely next.
6. This is 2014. Why are people talking about channeling aliens? Seriously. Why in the world must Ufology be combined with ghosts, boogyman, loch ness monster, and the paranormal kitchen sink? Why can't we treat UFOs as a separate subject until actual evidence is provided that it is connected to something else? The debunkers here are laughing at you. They want you to keep connecting UFOs to the supernatural. They love it. Because you are discrediting yourselves. That's why the debunkers only attack Mr. Gammon because he brought up the ETH. That scares them and so they have to attack. But as long as you people are combining UFOs with the paranormal then you are no threat to them.
7. Why do the debunkers here act like science is against UFOs and why are most Ufologists here anti-science? I swear if I read one more person claim that our science is completely wrong and we need to replace it with their whim of the moment I will unsubscribe. What in the world does the theory of relativity possibly being wrong have anything to do with UFOs?
8. Final question, why are we here on this list that is owned and moderated by a UFO debunker? Were we purposefully tricked and deceived? Did anybody know Isaac Koi was a debunker before this mess happened? A few of us have been talking about forming a new group as we do not agree that Isaac Koi should lead the continuation of UFO Updates. No debunker should. As Mr. Gammon pointed out, debunkers are not part of the UFO community anymore than atheists are part of the religious community. A debunker should never have a position of power over a Ufology group. I don't think people know just how deceptive debunkers are. A debunker will infiltrate a UFO group in order to bring it down. I think we've all let our guards down and joined this list not realizing that it was lead by debunkers. I strongly suggest that we need to take back our own power over the subject and create a new group where we are in charge.
Just for transparency purposes, I am a close personal friend of Mr. Gammon. Thank you.
*******
So I am posting this to let people know. These debunkers are really tricky and you have to be on your toes. I do support the creation of a new group, one not owned and moderated by a debunker. UFO Updates should not go out like this, being replaced with a debunking group. I just can't believe we were all tricked into joining.
-Jason Gammon
I just wanted to let people know I was banned at the UFO Collective Google Group, which was supposed to be the continuation of UFO Updates. I was banned because I told a debunker that I wouldn't engage in a flame war with them and recommend they go to a debunking group. I had already been tipped off the day before that I was going to be banned by a guy there who said that he uncovered that the group owner and moderator had tricked everyone and the UFO Collective group is a debunking group. I asked him what he meant and he revealed that the owner and moderator supported CSICOP and The Skeptical Inquirer and that on his Facebook page he had them as well as other skeptic groups listed. So we talked further and it just started to click. We were all tricked into joining a debunking group.
My friend Micah attempted to post something in my defense and to warn people that it's a debunking group but Isaac Koi, the owner/mod/debunker has switched it to every message has to be approved by him. My friend's message will likely not see the light of day and he will probably be banned as well. So I'm going to post his reply here so that people can be made aware of the situation.
***********
Can Someone Please Answer These Questions?
1. Why does Isaac Koi, the group owner and moderator, have on his favorites on his Facebook page, "The Skeptical Inquirer (CISCOP)?" He also lists a couple of other skeptical organizations and sites. I think we both know the word "skeptical" here is code for debunker.
2. Why does Isaac Koi allow debunkers to post whatever mean-spirited things they want to say yet he banned a member who has been with UFO Updates since 2005 because he refused to get into a flame war? Why did Isaac Koi praise a debunker at the same time that he banned the member?
3. Why did Jeff Ritzmann attack Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs and Mr. Gammon for their views on alien abduction when he himself claims that an alien in a toga or robe gave him magical fractals? Why is Clueless Wonder, a debunker, quoting and using Jeff Ritzmann at his debunking UFOs blog, as if Jeff Rittzmann is now a debunker too? Does he not know about the magical fractals and that Jeff Rittzmann is not debunking alien abduction, but rather that which is different from his own claims of alien abduction?
4. Why did Jenny Randles criticize Budd Hopkins for using hypnosis and then turn around and try to bring NDEs into the mix? Is that supposed to make sense? I'm tired of these people here who think it's perfectly fine for them to criticize someone but that we shouldn't criticize them for their claims as well. Mrs. Randles, there is no connection between alien abduction and NDEs, at least not the kind that you propose and you are playing into the hands of the debunkers who are laughing at you for making their job easier. You are literally assisting the debunkers.
5. Why does Kevin Randle always pop his head up when someone is trying to debunk alien abduction? Why does Kevin Randle support the ETH on his blog but debunks pretty much everything and everyone in public elsewhere? When will Kevin Randle learn that his same arguments can be used to debunk his research into Roswell? Both alien abduction and Roswell are based on witness testimony. I'm just tired of Kevin Randle's schizo view of Ufology where he can debunk anything he wants but acts like his research is off limits. Debunker, debunk thyself! I know he didn't factor hardly anything into this discussion but he sure as hell popped up his head, like he always does, every time any one attempts to debunk alien abduction. It's like he puts on his bib, grabs his fork and spoon and comes to the feast. How very shallow and hypocritical of you. These same debunkers that you support will turn against you. You are not safe from their debunking. You are merely next.
6. This is 2014. Why are people talking about channeling aliens? Seriously. Why in the world must Ufology be combined with ghosts, boogyman, loch ness monster, and the paranormal kitchen sink? Why can't we treat UFOs as a separate subject until actual evidence is provided that it is connected to something else? The debunkers here are laughing at you. They want you to keep connecting UFOs to the supernatural. They love it. Because you are discrediting yourselves. That's why the debunkers only attack Mr. Gammon because he brought up the ETH. That scares them and so they have to attack. But as long as you people are combining UFOs with the paranormal then you are no threat to them.
7. Why do the debunkers here act like science is against UFOs and why are most Ufologists here anti-science? I swear if I read one more person claim that our science is completely wrong and we need to replace it with their whim of the moment I will unsubscribe. What in the world does the theory of relativity possibly being wrong have anything to do with UFOs?
8. Final question, why are we here on this list that is owned and moderated by a UFO debunker? Were we purposefully tricked and deceived? Did anybody know Isaac Koi was a debunker before this mess happened? A few of us have been talking about forming a new group as we do not agree that Isaac Koi should lead the continuation of UFO Updates. No debunker should. As Mr. Gammon pointed out, debunkers are not part of the UFO community anymore than atheists are part of the religious community. A debunker should never have a position of power over a Ufology group. I don't think people know just how deceptive debunkers are. A debunker will infiltrate a UFO group in order to bring it down. I think we've all let our guards down and joined this list not realizing that it was lead by debunkers. I strongly suggest that we need to take back our own power over the subject and create a new group where we are in charge.
Just for transparency purposes, I am a close personal friend of Mr. Gammon. Thank you.
*******
So I am posting this to let people know. These debunkers are really tricky and you have to be on your toes. I do support the creation of a new group, one not owned and moderated by a debunker. UFO Updates should not go out like this, being replaced with a debunking group. I just can't believe we were all tricked into joining.
-Jason Gammon