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August 21, 2016 — Paul Davids

Discussion in 'Talk About the Show' started by Gene Steinberg, Aug 21, 2016.



  1. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  2. AlanValiant

    AlanValiant Paranormal Maven

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    I think you were aiming for 'au contraire' here, Eau Contraire appears to be a kind of perfume.

    Once again, The Paracast's answer to Sherlock Holmes settles the matter with two minutes of specious research. And you've even debunked the entire existence of Jesus Christ as well. How do you do it? It's a gift, almost paranormal in itself. How you don't have your own show yet is beyond me.

    P. S. You have attempted to portray me as exploitative and mercenary, yet on another thread you have posted a free download to one of my books, which rather undermines your point.
     
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  3. Ron Away

    Ron Away Paranormal Adept

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  4. marduk

    marduk quelling chaos since 2352BC

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    Stupid spellcheck.

    I haven't attempted to portray you in any way.

    What I have done is demonstrate that the evidence you put forth in no way directly or indirectly supports the shroud being associated with Jesus.

    I don't believe I've ever linked to a book download. Can you point me to this post?

    P.S. I have little doubt there was a historical figure (or figures) of which the mythology of Jesus was based upon. The mythology itself seems to be an aggregation of mithraism, egyptian, sumerian, and other cultures.

    The figure is also interpreted very differently by Judaism and Islam, of course.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  5. DROBNJAK

    DROBNJAK Paranormal Adept

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    If I may throw in my 2 cents worth. I think that Jesus was most likely a historic character and that story about him was true, say about 60-70%. Obviously all of the religiously motivated things were just propaganda, like that he was way related to God (who's very dubious character himself) or that Jesus was conceived w/o sex, and that Jesus ascended to heaven etc.

    Obviously, the biggest lie about Jesus was that he was a fair skinned Nordic looking bodybuilder. Most likely 99% is true that Jesus looked like modern Iraqi people look. In other words Jesus looked like Arab people do. There was no fair skinned person in Judea of that time. Even Romans would have a bit darker skin than say Northern Europeans.

    Regarding to Bible, Catholic church should pay heavy copyright fines for revenue loss, again to Iraqi people. Bible is is simply a compilation of Assyrian and Mesopotamian folk legends. Relatively speaking, Semitic people of that time were backward people and when they were taken to Babylon, they were simply humbled and overwhelmed by one of the most cosmopolitan and vibrant cities that ever existed. Babylon was the largest city of antiquity and counted something like 500,000 inhabitants like 1,000 B.C. After seeing Babylon's wealth Jews started copying Mesopotamian culture and started bringing in many of folk legends into their own religion. That's how Bible came up, its simply rip-off Mesopotamian culture.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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  6. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    Actually the whole jesus story is a rehash of an earlier one.

    1. It's inconceivable that during the alleged time of Jesus no one bothered to write down anything about this most extraordinary person, yet the extensive historical record of that time makes no mention of Jesus.

    2. The motif of a crucified savior God who dies and is resurrected already existed in many other religions prior to the alleged time of Jesus. The parallels between Jesus and these other preexisting religious saviors were so strong that early church fathers resorted to the desperate claim that the Devil had deviously copied the true story of Jesus before it actually happened in an attempt to mislead the gullible.

    3. Jesus begins his one year ministry by visiting John who baptizes with water. The Sun begins its yearly journey by visiting Aquarius, the water bearer. Jesus leaves John, who is put in prison, and visits Simon and Andrew, two fishermen. The Sun leaves Aquarius, who goes below the horizon, and visits Pisces, the two fish. The remarkable parallels continue.

    Jesus, who never existed, whose story existed prior to his alleged time, is a personification of the Sun, which dies in Winter and is resurrected in Spring, saving us from the evil of cold and darkness. The story is an allegory misinterpreted as history.

    Solar Mythology and the Jesus Story

    The discovery has been hailed as definitive proof that Bible is a work of fiction as it shows a process of revising, cutting, and then more rewriting, which contradicts popular belief that the book is the "divine word of God". The King James Bible or simply the Authorized Version, is an English translation of the Christian Bible for the Church of England that combines books from the Old and New Testaments as well as other Christian scriptures. The notes and commentary in the recently discovered draft of this book show how "best bits" were cherry-picked from the original books and were then embellished, exaggerated or rewritten to make for "better reading". There are also indications that sections were written under orders from the King to that would conform to the idea that the Royal bloodline was a divine one, to instill a false belief in the "common" people that the hierarchy of the ruling Elites was justified.

    Read more at: Handwritten Draft of The Bible Discovered Proves Complete Work of Fiction

    The Sun (son) dies on the cross, is dead for three days and is then resurrected

     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  7. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes well that's a bit better than the reply's i got from the British scuba people, who didn't use the word senile when i linked them to your claim of finding the Mary rose, but instead said that at your age, the memory starts playing tricks.
    The Mary rose museum historians likewise fact checked your claim and replied saying at best you were part of a a number of different teams who located the wreck, but that you were NOT the person who discovered it as you claim.

    Hardly surprising given your claim.

    Alan has continued his work for the Spiritual Hierarchy, and eventually, as reward for over thirty years devoted duty and service to both the Hierarchy and mankind, was first awarded the accolade of Ascended Spiritual Master and has now been promoted to Supreme Spiritual Master.

    I linked your article so people could fact check for them selves the utter nonsense of your claims.
     
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  8. AlanValiant

    AlanValiant Paranormal Maven

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    First of all, you state, using info from Wikipedia, that Percy Ackland was the first to rediscover the Mary Rose, then this post saying Alexander McKee's son will be horrified I'm stealing his father's credit for finding the Mary Rose. So who was it, Percy Ackland or Alexander McKee? You don't seem too sure yourself.

    As McKee's son states, the early part of the re-discovery of the Mary Rose is usually omitted but my contribution is most definitely mentioned in Alexander McKee's book How We Found The Mary Rose, which is a first-hand account of what happened.
     
  9. blowfish

    blowfish Whittingham

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    Like all academic or none written works, it has to be interpreted by the reader. From the poor to the wealthy. Spin doctors have been around for centuries so sorting out the wheat from the chaff is a must. Religion is no different.
     
  10. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    No i spoke to the historians at the Mary Rose trust.They went through his notebooks and you are not credited with much more than being on the team.

    And this claim

    The 92-year-old, who now lives in Launceston, told the ’Post’ "if I hadn’t been with him, they never would have found it", but before now his version of events have not been made public.

    Was laughed at, they also thought as did the British scuba people that your Medium page and its claims ( i sent them the link ) was pretty silly stuff too, and that's being kind.

    Something else i got a laugh out of, was the idea your lady knew psychically when you got base leave and had dinner waiting on the table even though you didn't phone and say you were coming home.

    Isn't it more likely that as soon as you walked in the door she went to the clothesline and moved a tea towel from the left to the right side or something similar so her boyfriend knew her old man was home and not to knock on the door that night ?

    I guess it was easier to believe the reason she had dinner for two waiting on the table was because she had some premonition you would be home that night. But i suspect the real answer was more prosaic in nature.
     
  11. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    Lets put these lies to bed once and for all. You told the post.

    Here is what the trust historians say:

    Hi Mike,



    Apologies for the confusion. Chris did mean that George Cooke and George Clark were two separate people who dived on the Mary Rose.



    George Cooke did dive with Alexander McKee in the early years, we have evidence he was part of the team before 1967 but not afterwards. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean he wasn’t involved after this year.



    George Cooke was using a magnetometer and surveys with McKee located an uncharted metal anchor cable, but this didn’t confirm the location of the Mary Rose.



    Both Alexander McKee and Margret Rule state that the wreck site was located using sonar (provided by Professor Harold Edgerton) in 1967. It wasn’t until 1971 that the first timbers were uncovered by Percy Ackland.


    Projects Officer
    The Mary Rose Trust
    College Road
    HM Naval Base
    Portsmouth
    PO1 3LX
    UK

    and

    MA, MBA, PGCE, MCIfA, FSA
    Head of Interpretation and Maritime Archaeology
    Mary Rose Trust
    College Road
    HM Naval Base
    Portsmouth
    PO1 3LX
    UK

    Ive redacted their names but both of them refute your claim you found it, and that they would not have found it but for you.

    Yeah you waited until those who could call out your lies died first.

    Whats sickening is you've waited until these people have passed on to then try and rewrite history and claim the discovery. Shame on you George.

    Wikipedia doesn't credit you with being the person who found the rose.
    Mckee doesn't credit you with finding it.
    Margaret rule doesn't credit you with finding it.
    Two historians from the MR trust confirm it wasn't you.

    You are a fraud George.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017 at 5:09 AM
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  12. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    Here is what the BSAC had to say

    When i showed them your claim in the Launceston post they said:

    British Sub-Aqua Club | Telford’s Quay | South Pier Road | Ellesmere Port | Cheshire | CH65 4FL
    Website: www.bsac.com

    Ive done my due diligence George, i can state for a fact your claims are lies.

    I would post what the BSAC said about your claims to channel Jesus, and being the ascended grand poo bah of the universe , but ..... It wasn't very kind.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017 at 5:53 AM
  13. AlanValiant

    AlanValiant Paranormal Maven

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    In 2013, I was specifically invited by the then Chief Executive of the Mary Rose Trust, Rear Admiral John Lippiett CBE, to visit the museum and see the Mary Rose. In the BBC Southwest video footage available on this link, which appears to have escaped your eagle-eyed research, I can be seen being welcomed by him and then shown around the museum, as well as meeting with another member of the diving team Maurice Young:

    Mary Rose locator from Cornwall visits ship for first time - BBC News

    In locating wreckages, magnetometers are used in conjunction with sonar scanners. It was my magnetometer readings that first detected the presence of the Mary Rose, as explained on the video, and this eventually led to Edgerton's sonar scanner being employed to pinpoint the precise location. There is no fraudulent claim and no one suggested there was when they kindly invited me to see it.

    I've no interest in their opinion of my spiritual work, anyone who claims to have spoken with the so called 'dead' will encounter scepticism. My late wife and I were specifically chosen to receive the truth regarding Jesus Christ precisely because our minds were free from religious bias. Your implication of my wife's supposed infidelity is in the poorest possible taste and merely a reflection of the low level of your thinking, as is your claim that my books were written 'to make a quick buck'. As several are available for free, this is laughable.

    It is notable that you are happy to place complete trust in historians regarding the location of the Mary Rose, people who were not involved, yet in your misguided claim that Jesus Christ never existed you state: 'It's inconceivable that during the alleged time of Jesus no one bothered to write down anything about this most extraordinary person, yet the extensive historical record of that time makes no mention of Jesus.'

    Yet, there are known references to Jesus Christ in non-Christian sources such as by the Roman historian Tacitus and Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews to name but two. Quotes from Wikipedia on the historicity of Jesus Christ:

    'Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus, or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary."[10]
    ^ "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more."[11]
    ^ Of "baptism and crucifixion", these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent".[12]
    ^ "That he was crucified is as sure as anything historical can ever be, since both Josephus and Tacitus ... agree with the Christian accounts on at least that basic fact."[14]
    ^ "...The point I shall argue below is that, the agreed evidentiary practices of the historians of Yeshua, despite their best efforts, have not been those of sound historical practice".[16]
    ^ "[F]arfetched theories that Jesus' existence was a Christian invention are highly implausible."[18]
    ^ Robert E. Van Voorst, referring to G.A. Wells: "The nonhistoricity thesis has always been controversial, and it has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines and religious creeds... Biblical scholars and classical historians now regard it as effectively refuted".[17]

    Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia

    So, rather ironically, though you say I've made a misguided claim that is laughed at by historians, I could in fact say the exact same thing about you, with justification. The problem with your clearly biased, 'black or white' approach is that the truth is often very complicated and to be found in the grey areas between two opposing viewpoints. The better paranormal researchers understand this.

    A contemptuous and sneering tone, ad hominem attacks, the 'black or white' approach to dealing with evidence, the tired informal fallacy of the 'appeal to ridicule' ("They're all laughing at you!" Etc.) are all hallmarks of the closed-minded sceptic and cynic, and people like yourself do nothing to further the legitimate aims of paranormal research.

    The central message in my books is that karma, the law of cause and effect, should be taken very seriously as we are all held accountable for our own behaviour. Therefore, it would be downright nonsensical and absurd to fabricate untruths or in any way knowingly mislead people, knowing that it would only incur karmic retribution at a later date. In my book Why Believe, When You Can Know I heavily criticize Christianity as it feeds its followers misinformation about their spiritual existence and I state the following:

    'There will be, no doubt, many pious and devout people who will rise up in anger at the invalidations of religions contained in this book but it is with the first law of karma very much in mind that I write these words. For me to have falsified just one item of information in this work will have exposed me to a retribution such as few will ever have incurred.
    If I have, deliberately, made any false statements about God or Jesus Christ, or made any claims without full and total justification, then I stand indicted and can expect a future atonement commensurate with the magnitude of my error. By virtue of that which I teach, I would reap a most unpleasant harvest, having sown the seeds of calumny.'

    One day, you will eventually realize, as Shakespeare wrote, that 'there are more things in heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.'
     
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  14. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    The facts are what they are you fraudulently claim

    Diver – Was a sub-aqua diver for twenty years and a diving instructor for ten years. First person to re-discover the Mary Rose (Henry Vlll’s flagship). First Class Diver of the British Sub-Aqua Club.

    The trust historians say

    George Cooke did dive with Alexander McKee in the early years, we have evidence he was part of the team before 1967 but not afterwards. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean he wasn’t involved after this year.
    George Cooke was using a magnetometer and surveys with McKee located an uncharted metal anchor cable, but this didn’t confirm the location of the Mary Rose.
    Both Alexander McKee and Margret Rule state that the wreck site was located using sonar (provided by Professor Harold Edgerton) in 1967. It wasn’t until 1971 that the first timbers were uncovered by Percy Ackland.

    And the BSAC say

    Hello Mike,

    George Cook was one of the very early members of Mac’s group, which became known as the Project Solent Ships. He was not the very first to dive on it, but he was a part of the group who were amongst the very first to dive on it. He was part of Southsea Branch together with Barbara Andrews and Don Bullivant. The very first to dive on the site were Alex McKee and John Towse. What they dived on was a difference in the seabed that they ascribed to changes in sediment caused by the wreck.

    Your claim regarding the Mary Rose is obviously false, Two authoritative sources say so.
    You can try and split hairs and argue semantics all you like, your claim is fraudulent.

    So we need to assess the rest of your claims in that light, that you knowingly tell lies and distort the facts.

    It soon transpired that they were in communication with the Spiritual Hierarchy, effectively the government of the universe.Alan has continued his work for the Spiritual Hierarchy, and eventually, as reward for over thirty years devoted duty and service to both the Hierarchy and mankind, was first awarded the accolade of Ascended Spiritual Master and has now been promoted to Supreme Spiritual Master.

    I think we can discard this claim as more fantasy on your part George.

    And while the BSAC have ascribed your claim to the false memory of old age, i find looking at your other fantastical claims that its simply deliberate dishonesty pure and simple.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017 at 12:23 AM
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  15. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    Channeling lol

    Its essentially the air guitar of the paranormal genre.



    With a bit of effort you can make it look and sound like you are playing the guitar, put on a good enough show and you may even garner some small measure of fame.

    But at the end of the day there is no guitar, no cosmic being.

    Its a sham.
     
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  16. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    And as it says

    A man from Cornwall who helped locate the Mary Rose on the seabed in 1966 has seen Henry VIII's flagship for the first time.

    George Cooke, 92, from Launceston, saw the vessel in its new multimillion-pound home at Portsmouth's Historic Dockyard.

    Mr Cooke was part of a team led by diver and historian Alexander McKee who discovered the ship in September 1966.

    Thats not the same as

    Diver – Was a sub-aqua diver for twenty years and a diving instructor for ten years. First person to re-discover the Mary Rose (Henry Vlll’s flagship).

    Or

    The 92-year-old, who now lives in Launceston, told the ’Post’ "if I hadn’t been with him, they never would have found it", but before now his version of events have not been made public.

    Indeed the trust make this point.

    George Cooke was using a magnetometer and surveys with McKee located an uncharted metal anchor cable, but this didn’t confirm the location of the Mary Rose.


    You were not as you claim the first person to rediscover the Rose, at best you were part of the team that found it.

    The claim

    Is also false, I think people who expose the frauds in this field do more to further paranormal research than those who would tell us lies and feed us false narratives.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017 at 12:52 AM
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  17. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    Josephus on Jesus | Forgery and Fraud? | Flavius Testimonium

    This brief piece of evidence which supposedly contributed the best "proof" of Jesus's existence has actually been proven to be a fraud. It has been demonstrated continuously over the centuries that "Testamonium Flavium" was a forgery manufactured by the Catholic Church, and was inserted into Josephus's works. The Testamonium Flavium account is so thoroughly refuted, that biblical scholars since the 19th century have refused to refer to it, unless to mention its false nature.

    JESUS CHRIST - NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE

    Pliny, Tacitus and Suetonius: No Proof of Jesus

    "The canonical gospels can be shown to be a collection of sayings from the Egyptian Mythos and Eschatology." In Forgery in Christianity, Joseph Wheless states, "The gospels are all priestly forgeries over a century after their pretended dates." Those who concocted some of the hundreds of "alternative" gospels and epistles that were being kicked about during the first several centuries C.E. have even admitted that they had forged the documents. Forgery during the first centuries of the Church's existence was admittedly rampant, so common in fact that a new phrase was coined to describe it: "pious fraud." Such prevarication is confessed to repeatedly in the Catholic Encyclopedia.12 Some of the "great" church fathers, such as Eusebius13, were determined by their own peers to be unbelievable liars who regularly wrote their own fictions of what "the Lord" said and did during "his" alleged sojourn upon the earth.

    Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger42, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
    He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.
    Horus was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who becomes "John the Baptist."
    He had 12 disciples.
    He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
    He walked on water.
    Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
    He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
    He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.
    He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish ("Ichthys").
    Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."
    Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long before the Christians duplicated the story.
    In fact, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis - the original "Madonna and Child"48 - and the Vatican itself is built upon the papacy of Mithra49, who shares many qualities with Jesus and who existed as a deity long before the Jesus character was formalized. The Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version it replaced50. Virtually all of the elements of the Catholic ritual, from miter to wafer to water to altar to doxology, are directly taken from earlier pagan mystery religions.

    THE JESUS FRAUD

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tacitus

    The bottom line is that the Suetonian sentence in question apparently used originally the word "Chresto." Combined with the facts that Christ was never related as having been at Rome, that the phrase "Jesus the Good" evidently does not make its appearance until the third or late second century at the earliest, and that the word chrestos was used to describe gods and many other figures in antiquity, doubt is cast upon the value of this passage as providing any evidence that "Jesus of Nazareth" was an actual historical figure.

    Moreover, the fact that Suetonius called Chresto's followers "Judeans" or "Jews," rather than associating them with the "Christians" or, perhaps, "Chrestians " of his Nero passage, tends to negate the idea that the Roman historian is referring to a historical "Jesus Christ." The evidence points, rather, to another individual or, more likely, their tribal god, Yahweh the Good, as the "Chresto" of Suetonius's Jews.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017 at 2:01 AM
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  18. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    Lost WW2 warship USS Indianapolis found after 72 years:

    Lost WW2 warship USS Indianapolis found after 72 years - BBC News


    Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, who led the civilian search team, said the discovery was "truly humbling".

    Mr Allen's crew discovered the vessel on 18 August, after new research from a naval historian pointed them to a specific region of the ocean where the warship had been sighted the night before its destruction.
     
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  19. Tyger

    Tyger Paranormal Adept

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    @mike This is appalling. Why are you 'going after' a 92 year old man? That he is so clearly able to still coherently counter your smear of his wife is amazing to me (that you would sink so low is astounding as you now represent the Paracast as an administrator on this site) - but I would suggest that @AlanValiant cease communications on this thread. You are not being respected - and you deserve that at least. There can be disagreement but everyone deserves a gentle hand. Such harshness, @mike just comes back to haunt one in one's own emotional life. It's that pesky karma coming to roost, as Alan speaks about.
     
  20. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    You know what: I didn't read that bit, or at least I didn't comprehend it at first, until @Tyger pointed it out.

    I think a retraction and apology from @mike would be appropriate.

    I agree with him regarding the dispute about 'finding' the ship, but that particular comment was out of order (regardless of age).
     
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