August 14, 2016 — Walter Bosley with Alejandro Rojas

[victimized]

Exactly. What I usually say is something like this: All proof is, is evidence that is sufficient to justify belief in a claim, and some people require more evidence than others. Therefore what we need to consider is whether the kind and quantity of evidence is reasonable enough to justify belief. When it comes to UFOs, first of all there's nothing unscientific or logically incoherent about the possibility of alien craft. That combined with decades of inquiry into thousands upon thousands of reports of such craft leads to the conclusion that the probability is very small that all reports result from hallucinations, misperceptions, and all the rest.

Therefore the logical and most reasonable conclusion is that some cases probably represent observations of real alien craft. Hence belief is reasonable, and therefore the best evidence qualifies not only as proof for some people, but well supported proof. Skeptics will often try to discard such evidence because it doesn't meet their standards, but this is simply a debating tactic and does not suddenly make all the experiences of thousands and thousands of people over many years suddenly disappear. Many of us know alien craft are real from our own observations alone.

As the human male is the valuer of all psychic considerations, he already stated that the UFO condition is an artificial condition and ET an extra signal in the terrestrial of Earth and also "artificial".

The only artificial condition that exists on Planet Earth is the introduction of the nuclear sciences and their conversion of natural atmospheric and stone fusions.

Nuclear sound belonging to the fusion of both stone and metals.

Why is it that humanity finds it hard to understand that human occult sciences are aware that they are causing the UFO condition, called unidentified only because it is artificial.

The ancient human male awareness drew pictures of the brain/mind images that he gained when he altered the natural nuclear fusion of stone (for levitation of stone blocks), and he placed a spiritual presence and imagery inside of the falling out nuclear O sound body. This is due to the fact that artificial held constants produces in the sound body imagery by manifestation interaction/wavelength conversions.....and as cloud reactions attest if you cared to observe atmospheric reactions to natural light and sound images form in the reactive state of cloud formation.

As nuclear sciences brings the conversion wavelengths to the ground state to interact with their nuclear sciences in buildings, nature and human life was attacked and our natural chemical and cell state began to convert, which is why metallic implants formed beneath the skin in the attacks. As our own natural state/blood has iron in it, there is no excuse in modern times to believe anything other than what is being witnessed.....metallic bodies can also form in the artificial state and then disappear. The nuclear sciences are attacking the natural cellular life of Nature and has been trying to convert our bodies/minds.

As all forms of spiritual awareness status demonstrates spirit and manifestations appear and then disappear, demonstrating that the condition belongs to the occult practices, as the human occult scientist is more than aware of.

With the condition of human disappearance is various states of human observations....UFO conditions can cause "levitation conditions" or sucking up. Huge bodies of nature have been displaced elsewhere by being sucked up.

Secondly is the condition witnessed by humanity in the activation of nuclear conversion signals....human self combustion and in some cases the near disintegration of the human presence observed. As you get turned into a pile of dust, what evidence would be left?

As the human mind is chemically affected by the unnatural nuclear/chemical wavelength interaction human kind can also wander from their vicinity without being aware.

As I was irradiated intensely myself in a fall out wavelength condition, I thought I was going to self combust, which is why I understand by psychic information and recordings that ice melting cooled the wavelength attacking me and Nature. Hence I became aware that some of our human and animal family have not been so lucky in the interactive wavelength condition as observed by many.

 

[Greers Meeting Planner]

Alejandro Rojas just became my new favourite person. He nailed it...

- missing government money is not Evidence of a breakway civilisation (it's evidence of missing money). Why would a breakaway civilisation need our currency? What good would it be in their civilisation? Which bank would they cash their note into? Why would their advanced civilisation bank recognise a note from the federal reserve?

- Advanced technology is not evidence of a breakaway if we don't know who made it or what it is

- Gary mckinnon said he found a folder of 'non terrestrial officers' this could be navy and mean not based on land. It could mean anything granted - but it's not evidence

Evidence for a breakway would be finding the subterranean base (or other) where the breakaway civilisation have set up camp and taking a picture of it or filming it or finding a record of it in a document.

If we (field of ufology) take non direct evidence such as the above and present it as evidence for a theory we are doing no better than saying lights in the sky is evidence of aliens. Or its like David Ike saying marriage between royal familes is evidence of reptilian blood lines.

I suggest a compromise...why can't we say there are researchable facts that could indicate something is going on but it needs FURTHER RESEARCH before we can present it as a credible theory.

Chris is setting up UFO detectors to get more evidence of UFO's, what could we setup to build more credibility into the breakaway civilisation theory?

 

[Walter Bosley]

One thing I see, though, is a bunch of guys out there whose idea of acknowledging opinion etc etc is that they'd just rather some people not talk nor write about their ideas at all. And, speaking for myself, I'll be damned if I'm gonna stop because some snarky man-boy wanna be comic philosopher thinks I should. Why don't the guys who have trouble with the alternative field just ignore it and go away? I can't stand the nonsense one hears in American protestant church -- so I simply stopped going. But I don't go to church related forums and harangue the believers. I simply choose not to participate and simply keep their influence from my personal space. I ignore them. Another thing that gets me is how guys who have embraced the gospel of the ET hypothesis culture express their difficulty with the idea of a breakaway -- that is a hoot! Especially the disclosure folks. An outsider could look at both sides and say it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. There is more evidence for a breakaway than there is for ET explaining the UFO mystery -- but the ET guys are talking like skeptics. It's hilarious. I have more respect for the skeptic who tells me I'm full of crap than I do an ET hypothesis guy telling me that.

There you guys go. I'm throwing you a bone. Load up!

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Therefore the logical and most reasonable conclusion is that some cases probably represent observations of real alien craft. Hence belief is reasonable, and therefore the best evidence qualifies not only as proof for some people, but well supported proof. Skeptics will often try to discard such evidence because it doesn't meet their standards, but this is simply a debating tactic and does not suddenly make all the experiences of thousands and thousands of people over many years suddenly disappear. Many of us know alien craft are real from our own observations alone.

Yeah but, show me the evidence that we are being visited from "aliens" from outside our planet's closed biological system? One metal sample that is unknown, one biological sample w/ unknown properties, one shred of physical, empirical, unassailable evidence. You CAN'T, therefore we must not assume anything extraterrestrial is behind these "craft"! The wheel of ufology is broke Randall. (I sound like a scratched CD) And no amount of wishful thinking will change this fact. So, let's get creative. Give us some ideas, dude. I say let's explore consciousness, you sniff and diss my idea. I say there appears to be am underlying "tricksterish" connection that mocks us w/ the absurd and your eyes glaze over. You pontificate a lot, but I don't see or hear any creative thinking on your part. Where are YOUR ideas? Where are your theories and hypothesis that don't sound like Stan the Man? I'm all tactile and then some dude: eyes, ears, tactility, mind, exhalted senses and good 'ole intuition...

 

[Randall]

Yeah but, show me the evidence that we are being visited from "aliens" from outside our planet's closed biological system? One metal sample that is unknown, one biological sample w/ unknown properties, one shred of physical, empirical, unassailable evidence. You CAN'T, therefore we must not assume anything extraterrestrial is behind these "craft"!

If we don't want to find ourselves making false assumptions about the other's views we should all know what the other person means when they use terms like "alien", "ET" and "UFO". We touched on this briefly during the last round table where I made the point that being alien doesn't necessitate non-human or extraterrestrial. In general terms, the word alien is a reference to something originating from outside the environment in which it is found. In botany and zoology an alien species is one that is non-native to the region in which it is found. In ufology the term has similar connotations, but the boundaries are known human civilization, not our atmosphere.

This means that some UFOs might not be ET. In the beginning there were theories about a civilization inside the planet Earth ( The Hollow Earth Theory ). That theory has been adequately debunked, but it is possible that there is still some unknown society residing here on Earth in some undisclosed location. It's also possible that a secret society could exist parallel to known civilization but outside the political and social constructs the rest of the world is aware of. Perhaps there's even some league of extraordinary gentlemen who have privately engineered their own exotic craft. These theories aren't logically incoherent or blatantly nonsensical.

But how likely are terrestrial explanations for UFOs? I think that it's fair to suggest that some secret military projects could fit within this definition, and therefore the craft they've built could at one time in the past have ben considered UFOs. An example would be the SR-71 and it's Blackbird relatives. It is now known that a fair number of UFO reports stemming from radar detection back in the late 1950s and into the 1960s were the result of these craft undertaking classified missions.

However, as amazing as those aircraft were, they came nowhere near the performance and technological capability of giant mother ships or craft that could instantaneously accelerate, decelerate, and change direction at very high speed, and it's completely unreasonable to believe that by the 1960s, some other manufacturer apart from the military had come up with all the technological breakthroughs and resources needed to make motherships and antigravity driven craft here on Earth without the military establishment knowing all about it and getting their hands on it, in which case it's also totally unreasonable to think we'd still be pouring billions into rockets and jet planes just to maintain some kind of façade.

The wheel of ufology is broke Randall. (I sound like a scratched CD) And no amount of wishful thinking will change this fact. So, let's get creative. Give us some ideas, dude. I say let's explore consciousness, you sniff and diss my idea. I say there appears to be am underlying "tricksterish" connection that mocks us w/ the absurd and your eyes glaze over. You pontificate a lot, but I don't see or hear any creative thinking on your part. Where are YOUR ideas? Where are your theories and hypothesis that don't sound like Stan the Man? I'm all tactile and then some dude: eyes, ears, tactility, mind, exhalted senses and good 'ole intuition...

I haven't dismissed the idea that some UFOs might be from other universes. As mentioned before, that is a logical possibility. However other universes are technically also extraterrestrial locations, and if you think looking beyond our own planet but within our known universe is too far out, how do whole other purely hypothetical universes qualify as more likely? Fact is, they don't. We know we can travel through space. We've done it. We know interstellar travel is scientifically possible. We know our universe creates life because we're in it. It's logical extrapolation that makes the ETH the most likely, not wishful thinking.

Nevertheless, this doesn't mean that the ETH is correct, or that even if it is correct, that it is the only answer. It is still possible that some UFOs are terrestrial, some are interstellar, and some are interuniversal, and it seems as if the technological gap between them all is getting compressed, as if there's a sort of cosmic technology-limit. Perhaps that's why they're observing us. They know that once we get to this point, that we're on the verge of discovering the next breakthrough. Ironically, perhaps it will be the work of scientists that ultimately initiates official first-contact.

In the meantime ufology is still a fascinating field of interest and I wouldn't compare it to a broken wheel. It's more like a bazaar of the bizarre and in the spirit of the Paracast, I try to separate the signal from the noise. I'm not out looking for something new for the sheer sake of novelty. Maybe the ETH is boring to some and I can see how spicing it up with some DMT would certainly cure that, but what if the truth is just boring old interstellar travellers? Vallée and his devotees might be disappointed, but personally, I think that interstellar travel would an awesome step forward.

But what about you Chris? I had a question in a previous post about the correlation between psychedelic experiences and objective external reality. Did I miss your reply on that? I was looking forward to your comment on that.

 

[GhostSensor3000]

All I can say is WOW!! I have to get my digs in as well. A hell of a show!! And I mean that in a good way.

I really didn't see the signs of an 'ambush.' I see both Walter's and Alejandro's points. And I feel good researchers can find nuggets of truth in both camps, and draw their own conclusions from there. Even though I do lean more towards Walter's 'breakaway civilization' camp, but I still see Alejandro Rojas's point(s). Both Walter and Alejandro are two of my favorite guests. It was a great debate and discussion. Loved it, and feel no ill will toward either guest. And I will continue to be a fan of the Paracast, politics or no politics. That doesn't bother me. Thanks for a great show, guys!!

Also, Chris, I have to agree with you about hallucinogens. I've had my own experiences in my past with them. I had many strange experiences (paranormal, ufological, and a myriad of synchronicities). Although, at the time, the UFO sighting and most of the synchronicities happened in a state of sobriety with other sober individuals, between trips. Interesting.

These experiences were very spiritual, and increased my overall awareness of the world around me. I feel the folks who have such strong opinions against hallucinogens have never experimented with them, or have had bad experiences with them.

 

[Spectre73]

I have to agree GhostSensor3000. I thought it was a great show and opinions were expressed, ill judged or otherwise. It opened great debate. More please

 

[Greers Meeting Planner]

Back to LSD an interesting article in Time mag LSD Might Make You More Creative

 

[SRL+]

It's hard to argue with success

Steve Jobs Had LSD. We Have the iPhone | TIME.com