August 14, 2016 — Walter Bosley with Alejandro Rojas

[Richard Hawkins]

Ok I think we should have Timothy Good on next week lmfao

 

[DaveM]

What I am finding as of late, that there are certain individuals who just won't let up.

They come in these flavors: 1. I have to have the last word on a subject. 2. You are wrong/ I am right and that is all there is to it. One other flavor to mention. The poster who likes to pick at an open wound until someone snaps at them and then they get all defensive.

I have cut back on posting because it is tiresome looking at these posts on a day to day basis.

Sorry, I had to add one other tedious kind of poster. I call them the 'cut and paste jockeys.' When I see a dozen or more long paragraphs of cut and paste nonsense, I scroll on by. Frankly, if you can't write one or two paragraphs in your own words to make a point, it probably isn't worth reading.

 

[jamestyle]

I do think that psychedelics will have their place, in time, within this field. There is already published research on the use of psychedelics for helping terminally ill folks with death anxiety. And, I mean.. treating death anxiety is essentially the process of ego death, weakening of boundaries, etc.... which, in my mind is very much related to "thinking outside the box." Small sample sizes in this research, yeah.. but I foresee the field of medicine moving towards using these substances. What I just wrote is unclear, but essentially what I am trying to say is that these substances likely have a place in this field and black and white thinking should be our enemy.

 

[wwkirk]

I'm glad to see a lively thread after several weeks of weak ones.

 

[Wade]

I do think that psychedelics will have their place, in time, within this field. There is already published research on the use of psychedelics for helping terminally ill folks with death anxiety. And, I mean.. treating death anxiety is essentially the process of ego death, weakening of boundaries, etc.... which, in my mind is very much related to "thinking outside the box." Small sample sizes in this research, yeah.. but I foresee the field of medicine moving towards using these substances. What I just wrote is unclear, but essentially what I am trying to say is that these substances likely have a place in this field and black and white thinking should be our enemy.

There seems to be some compelling links ( I'll refrain from using the word evidence) between a paranormal experience and symptoms of schizophrenia. Can anyone truly quantifiably (?) say that these experiences are merely symptoms of a n mental disorder and maybe not something else ? Maybe there is connection between the paranormal and and impaired brain activity.

As long as we are open to having a paracast episode on psychedelics & paranormal experiences why not have
one on mental "disorders" as well.

By the way about a year and a half ago ago I was reading a good amount of literature on people with bipolar disorders and schizophrenia (this reading ncluding the book "The spiritual gift of madness" )that were eschewing their medications and embracing "their madness" that is the mad pride movement

 

[jamestyle]

Yeah, people with psychotic disorders who are treated as having a gift, do tend to function much better... makes sense there would be a movement related to this.

Also forgot to mention that they use Ketamine now for treatment resistant depression.

 

[Randall]

Well, well, well, he finally cracked! So, you now think that this could be an investigative avenue to take. I've FINALLY broke through!

I've said the same thing before. We're actually not so far apart on our thinking as you seem to believe. Have patience. Discuss the subject itself and you might be surprised. My contribution is not meant to "shut you down" but to open up further discussion that includes the pro and cons from a rational and responsible perspective. The real breakthrough I'm hoping for here is in how we communicate rather than the content itself. This is much better. I hope the trend continues .

Face it Randall: The UFO investigative wheel is not only broken, it is shredded, off the vehicle, it has flown off the cliff to be mistaken as an internet hoax. I would say that after almost 70 years with very little (if any) progress that we should be getting creative in our efforts and I know that psychedelic awareness (and I agree, if properly applied) will provide investigators w/ breathtaking breakthroughs in understanding. And since you are so hung up on accreditations, diplomas, degrees and other sniffy educational validity, I have invited Rick Strassman to be a guest on the Paracast. He has all these degrees and is one of only a handful of brave scientists willing to jeopardize his career and study psychedelics. He has had to deal w/ the bullshit stigma that has been leveled at these wonderful substances (like you do) but has managed to damn the torpedoes and forge ahead to reveal what shaman have been saying for thousands of of years. But, since he has you precious establishment credentials, he has been taken seriously. You bet your ass I am going to bounce some very interesting questions off him and we'll see what Dr. expert has to say about your fears and trepidation around the subject.

The reason that I view accepted academic methodology as being important is because that approach realizes ( or at least should realize ) the importance of differentiating the objective from the subjective, and go about doing that with greater accuracy and less bias than UFO buffs who use psychedelics for recreational purposes. We want ufology to be taken seriously, and an independent academic approach would help insulate the field from negative fallout while at the same time providing a responsible inroad for further investigation. The relationship between psychedelics and ufology may be a fringe topic, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve proper study.

NOTE: Please don't confuse this as an endorsement for any sort of academic elitism or drug use or non-use or anything else I haven't said. My personal opinion about drug use and academic credentials is another topic of discussion altogether, and I think much of the trouble we're running into is that you're combining assumptions about those things together with this discussion based on what I've said about this specific issue only. Simply because someone has academic credentials doesn't automatically mean their claims are valid, and I'm an advocate for responsible legalization, regulation, and use. I always have been.

 

[technomage]

So far, I'm hearing a spirited debate and I'd be happy to hear more of these types of debates.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

@Randall: You have never responded to my first UFO sighting that I've described several times on the show and described in detail in two of my books. The sighting event where some for us were tripping while others of us were not. It was an interactive sighting in that the group of lights appeared to mimic patterns we were making on the football field and follow two direct commands. Six witnesses 6 lights over New Paltz, NY. I probably wouldn't have noticed the lights/objects(?) unless I had been faced. As to your comment about "ufo buffs who use psychedelics for recreational use" I won't take it personally because for me personally, nothing could be further from the truth. These substances are sacred medicines in my opinion, so don't even appear to lump me in with the low-brow rollercoaster set, or make insinuations about my motivations, OK?

I still say that all the academics, scientists and sniffy self-appointed, holier-than-thou experts haven't made any headway in 70 years, so let's try something new!

 

[DaveM]

Most politicians run away from the ufo topic. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio was ridiculed when he said he has a UFO sighting. Yes, Hillary Clinton said she wanted to investigate UFOs but what happened when her husband wanted to know about Area 51 and ufo/aliens? A big nothing occurred.

An independent academic research into wholesale marijuana legalization would depend on some sort portion of funding by the government. What brave scientist is going to propose that research project? Most scientists want to keep their jobs. The White House has said many times in the past they oppose any kind of legalization.

Combine UFOs and drugs and you have a lethal brew, in my opinion.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

...Combine UFOs and drugs and you have a lethal brew, in my opinion.

Lethal? Bit of an overstatement, I would say. True breakthroughs are often accomplished after the greatest risks are undertaken. There are wimps and there are trailblazers willing to take risks. I count myself among the latter.

 

[technomage]

I can't comment on the Paracast business model, but I do pay to listen to the show, so as a paying customer, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be able to provide constructive criticism.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Gene gave me a phone and pays my bill plus last year he gave me his old computer. He also laid out my last book for free, so those attempts at compensation should be noted. However, over the past few years I've received little if any monetary compensation for all the guests I book or suggest, all the guest's books I am required to read or the 2.5 to 3 hours per week for actual tapings. 99% of the cash generated by the show I never see...

 

[DaveM]

Lethal? Bit of an overstatement, I would say. True breakthroughs are often accomplished after the greatest risks are undertaken. There are wimps and there are trailblazers willing to take risks. I count myself among the latter.

What I meant to say was that expecting scientists and politicians to look at the subjects of UFOs and drugs together seems far fetched to me. You may disagree.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Gene gave me a phone and pays my bill plus last year he gave me his old computer. He also laid out my last book for free, so those attempts at compensation should be noted. However, over the past few years I've received little if any monetary compensation for all the guests I book or suggest, all the guest's books I am required to read or the 2.5 to 3 hours per week for actual tapings. 99% of the cash generated by the show I never see...

As Chris agreed, until my own cash issues are resolved, most of the money will go my way so I can eat. When things straighten out, as they will soon if the situation continues to improve, he'll see a much larger portion of the income. It's not a lot either way, but if we have enough Paracast+ subscribers in the pool, we can both live a respectable lifestyle. The potential is HUGE!

 

[Randall]

@Randall: You have never responded to my first UFO sighting that I've described several times on the show and described in detail in two of my books. The sighting event where some for us were tripping while others of us were not. It was an interactive sighting in that the group of lights appeared to mimic patterns we were making on the football field and follow two direct commands. Six witnesses 6 lights over New Paltz, NY.

I think we did touch on that sighting someplace, perhaps even on one of the shows. It's very interesting. I don't know all the intricate details so guessing exactly what was going on isn't likely. The full range of possibilities from aliens to fireflies to an elaborate hoax on you all remains on the table. Maybe with more details from all of the people involved we might be able to distill it down, ruling out some things and making the most likely possibility stand out, but even that could be wrong. Did you want to discuss it here in more detail? What do you think the lights were?

I probably wouldn't have noticed the lights/objects(?) unless I had been faced.

You're a keen observer and investigator who tends to look up when other people don't. I'm confident that you would probably have seem them whether you were "faced" or not.

As to your comment about "ufo buffs who use psychedelics for recreational use" I won't take it personally because for me personally, nothing could be further from the truth. These substances are sacred medicines in my opinion, so don't even appear to lump me in with the low-brow rollercoaster set, or make insinuations about my motivations, OK?

Absolutely. Please don't take anything I say personally unless it is obviously personal, in which case I can assure you that you will know it . It's obvious to me that you highly value your psychedelic experiences and I'm in no way trying to diminish the importance of them for you. I'm just applying it to my particular avenue in the search for truth, which involves knowledge about materially and objectively real craft as opposed to anything else. That's not to say that there might not be some connection to be found between psychedelic experiences and UFO experiences stemming from external stimuli, but for me, that avenue of exploration, as interesting as it may be in its own right, is presently a fringe topic.

On the use of recreational drugs. I'm not knocking your perspective on them, but personally, the bottom line for me is that people should have the right to explore the boundaries of their own consciousness without persecution so long as it's done responsibly and consensually. There's obviously a few caveats in there under "responsibly" but that's another conversation. I knew someone who had taken some LSD and was a passenger in a car on a highway just outside Toronto when she and the driver suddenly came upon some small humanoid gnome-like creatures in the middle of the road. They couldn't avoid them and seemed to hit one.

She said the little creature seemed to fold itself down onto the road and pop-up again behind the car, waving as if to say it was OK and then it scurried off with the others. She wanted the driver to stop the car but the driver had seen them too and was too freaked out by the creatures to stop, and didn't stop until they arrived at the party they were going to. A little while later another group ( not on LSD ) joined the party who had come along the same route and started asking around if anyone else had seen the little creatures on the highway! The driver my witness had been with refused to discuss it, but my witness shared her experience, and it seemed that everyone had encountered the same type of creatures.

My witness had written the experience off as a drug induced hallucination until she shared it with me, and I remember saying how it seemed unlikely to me that two people would have totally identical hallucinations, similar yes, but not totally identical unless something really was there. Add to that that some of the witnesses weren't even high. Maybe that's something you could comment on? Specifically, your perspective on the correlation while on psychedelics, between multiple identical perceptions between different individuals, and the chance that such perceptions are hallucinations as opposed to stimuli from something objectively real. It would be interesting to hear your take, as well as your guest expert's.

I still say that all the academics, scientists and sniffy self-appointed, holier-than-thou experts haven't made any headway in 70 years, so let's try something new!

On one level I certainly appreciate your attitude with respect to some of the academic elitists, but I also know that you're not "ant-science". You value accurate information, and recognize that the scientific method and critical thinking can help tremendously in that regard. So while trying new avenues of investigation aren't an unreasonable suggestion, I doubt that you would want to discard tools that are useful in evaluating that information. That is what I try to do on a consistent basis. It's not personal, but sometimes it's taken that way, and sometimes it would be nice to be more appreciated for my effort ... but I guess we all have our crosses to bear ... LOL ... Thanks for easing up a bit.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Gene is going to promise to never do that again, right Gene?

Sigh.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

That's all good and fine.
But you and Chris can't both enter into a back and forwards in these threads about who either did or didn't inform the other about the extra guest that arrived in the conversation in the last episode.
That's really unprofessional from both of your sides.

Isn'i it? Gene is going to promise to never do that to me again, right Gene?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I thought I did that already. I won't give a list of comparable promises I'd like. Rather move on and deal with the crisis of the day.

 

[Sand]

I have invited Rick Strassman to be a guest on the Paracast. He has all these degrees and is one of only a handful of brave scientists willing to jeopardize his career and study psychedelics.

I hope he accepts. I'd really look forward to that one. I think Dr Dennis McKenna would be another fascinating guest.