April 25th, O'Brien, Mott, Greenfield, Clelland, Bosley

[trainedobserver]

Time travel seems one of the least probable and possible of all the theories. If you were actually able to travel into the future or the past you would be somewhere the earth is not. To travel through time you would have to travel through space as well if you wanted to land on the earth. Or so it seems to me ...

 

[Hoffmeister]

Time travel seems one of the least probable and possible of all the theories. If you were actually able to travel into the future or the past you would be somewhere the earth is not. To travel through time you would have to travel through space as well if you wanted to land on the earth. Or so it seems to me ...

I personally think that since to the best of our knowledge time and space are intricately linked, it wouldnt be that suprising if once you have figured out how to travel the vast distances of space by 'bending the rules' (or our current ones atleast), then you might also have figured out how to travel through time, killing two birds with one stone. Therefore any ET's could very well be from the future or past, or other from dimensions if thats what it takes to do it!!

Just to clarify, I did enjoy the show, and i do think crypto's/trickster is worth discussing, I just think that when people are going to push it so heavily, and shoot down the ETH theory quite heavily at the same time, they need to provide a bit more evidence than speculation about 'the gods of the ancients' or 'mysterious portals in parks in america' that you once heard about a case of third hand. Perhaps find some actual cases which have been throughly investigated and come up with at least some solid circumstantial evidence. And also it would have made a more interesting show to have someone balance the discussion out a bit.
This is nitpicking though, and i only say it because it would make a show i love even better!

 

[xLordSummerislex]

I'd agree with the others above- would like to hear more from Walter Bosely, particularly about what he's been told about the subterreanean civilization in the South West US. (Have read the books he said mentioned it, but they didn't go into a lot of detail).

 

[Paul Kimball]

I too would like to hear more from Walter, who I've met a couple of times and consider a friend... but I would also like more detail, and some proof.

 

[Hoffmeister]

i'd also like to hear about his remote viewing... i'm currently reading Ingo Swanns - Penetration and am interested to hear more about the topic

 

[Gareth]

i'd also like to hear about his remote viewing... i'm currently reading Ingo Swanns - Penetration and am interested to hear more about the topic

He some way more interesting and wacky shit than remote viewing. Listen to his Radio Misterioso interviews.

And like Paul said, I wish he would provide evidence for some of that stuff.

 

[Hoffmeister]

He some way more interesting and wacky shit than remote viewing. Listen to his Radio Misterioso interviews.

And like Paul said, I wish he would provide evidence for some of that stuff.

Have listened to them, but am just interested in remote viewing right now as its currently something that i'm trying to decide whether it has any basis in truth or whether its just lucky guessing. You're right about the evidence thing though, he does come up with a lot of ideas and you don't often hear much evidence.

 

[Ezechiel]

One-sided? Huh? After 60 years of spinning the ETH/ETA/ETR wheels with nothing to show? And those who "believe"—for decades—shouting down creative thinkers who simply point out the obvious ? I salute Gene in his guest selection: its good and healthy to present a show that covers various closed-system theories, for a change...

BTW: Show me one shred of unequivocal evidence that we are being visited by ETs and then we can have a real debate...

In an open system the home location of advanced non-human beings is irrelevant. If you assume that they have a mastery of the dimension of space and that displacement between stars is no longer an issue, there is no difference between being in your backyard or sipping a romulan cola in the asteroid fields lol. In other words they live in a universe where the only parameter that structures them is time. They come in and out of your reality as they please.

A closed system theory forces you to cash in your human chips right now and build models around the idea that there is an ultimate frontier of space that cannot be broken.

The speed of sound was broken in 1942 by V2 rockets (pushing mass through space within earths atmosphere).

Breaking the speed of light should be something way different... perhaps contracting space in front of you while expanding it behind you. In other words creating a big bang (rear of mass) using the black hole in front of you should actually change your position in physical space without the need for speed/acceleration .... now can someone build this and close the debate lol. Point is.... humans have the capacity of simulating observed phenomenon (ex. flight of a bird) and building models to succesfully replicate it (airplanes...)

As long as there is no acceleration Einstein can rest in peace .... however, the energy requirements for my model are crazy. Perhaps a large scale fusion reactor (ITER x 100) would give humans the tools to start building applied science solutions of the sort. IMHO, the real key here is energy... until you can experiment with massive amounts of it and observe how it can transform your physical environment, adopting an earth-centric closed-system view is premature.

Peace

 

[itsthenoise]

This was the best post dB show so far, fascinating and cO'B is an excellent co-host... respect.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

The first ten minutes of this show made me actually need to turn it off and take a breather. Don't talk about shit if you haven't actually looked at the evidence presented. And talking to your buddies does not actually constitute real research. It was blatantly obvious several people talking out their ass (literally) hadn't actually looked at the evidence Emma Woods presented and based their entire look at this issue on discussion with Jacobs and Bud and posts on this forum. It's really embarrassing. And to make the statement that it looks like a "set up" (O'brien) is ludicrous. The most obvious character assassination has been directed towards Emma by Jacobs... And you all fall in line. I don't really know the entire story but I DO know that Emma is the only one who actually presented any real evidence. AND I know that Jacobs and Hopkins have approached this entire situation with text book typical debunker arguments... ignore the evidence, let us lambast the accuser with character assassination. It was also stated that we must not let "their good work" be jaded by this case. This case brings to light the problem with their technique. Hypnotism renders the subject suggestible and neither of them are qualified to go tinkering into someone's psyche.... and anyone qualified are the first to speak on its shortcomings.... seriously. I am just some dude behind a keyboard saying all of this yet you people who somehow call yourselves "researchers" without needing to actually look at a case because it involves questioning the old guard... It is totally appalling. I lost a ton of respect for some people within that first ten minutes.

 

[Apocalypto]

OK. I agree that there have been researchers (like MacDonald, Stanford, Sturrock, Philips etc), that have done some amazing work over the course of the last 60 years, but are we truly any closer to answers than we were when Ken Arnold took off in his plane to search around Mt Ranier? NO
We all agree there is "something" going on here in and around this closed system/biosphere, but where is the unequivocal irrefutable evidence that these beings are from off planet? THERE IS NONE!
If saying that is throwing out the baby, so be it. Perhaps the baby needs some fresh air and a new perspective (?)

Maybe we need to put the baby up for adoption and have another (?)

By the way, there is an equal amount of evidence that these beings are from off planet as they are from on planet. EQUAL! (See, I can use all caps too for dramatic effect. lol.)

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

By the way, there is an equal amount of evidence that these beings are from off planet as they are from on planet. EQUAL! (See, I can use all caps too for dramatic effect. lol.)

Daytime television aside, I think we can all agree that intelligent life exists on our planet. What evidence do we have that life exists on other planets? Hmm

I rest my case...

 

[Emma]

You said in the introduction to the show that my therapist gave permission for Dr. Jacobs to conduct hypnosis with me. I have addressed this in my rebuttal to Dr. Jacobs' defamatory statement about me, which it appears you have not read. My therapist did NOT give permission for this. He made it clear that as he was no longer my therapist at the time, that he could not advise me about it either. Dr. Jacobs is fully aware of this. He has deliberately misled people to believe that my therapist gave his approval to it in order to cover himself in regard to his conducting hypnosis with me over the phone.

In regard to Budd Hopkins' statements about the material that I sent to him and Dr. Jacobs, this was material that I sent to them three months AFTER Dr. Jacobs took me on as his research subject. In addition, it was NOT unsolicited. Dr. Jacobs asked me to send it to him. It contained physiological data that I collected to correlate with my experiences. Dr. Jacobs had assisted me with this research, and given me advice on ways to do it. One set of this data was the results of monthly pregnancy tests that I had taken. Dr. Jacobs had sent me the pregnancy tests himself from America to use. It was this physiological data that Budd Hopkins was referring to on the show. (It is precisely the type of systematic study of the phenomenon that Kevin Randle talked about in your interview with the three researchers.) Dr. Jacobs is trying to put it across that he thought that I had mental health problems from the beginning, to cover up the fact that he only began to say that I had mental health problems after I questioned his conduct as a researcher. To do this, he is attempting to re-write history, and is telling outright lies, playing on people's ignorance of the facts. Once again, I address this in my rebuttal to his defamatory statement.

Christopher, you said that you felt sorry for Dr. Jacobs having to deal with me going after him, and that it had a hint of a "set up". I have to say that I find it hard to understand how anyone could listen to the recording of Dr. Jacobs putting hypnotic suggestions in my mind that I had Multiple Personality Disorder, while I was in the vulnerable hypnotized state, and say that they feel sorry for him because I am persevering in making that abuse public. I think that anyone who has an understanding of the importance of ethics in research, and the protection of human research subjects, can recognize that his actions in doing that were beyond the pale, and that this should be known as a matter of public interest. I hope that one day you will take the time to examine the evidence related to this issue on my website.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Christopher, you said that you felt sorry for Dr. Jacobs having to deal with me going after him, any that it had a hint of a "set up". I have to say that I find it hard to understand how anyone could listen to the recording of Dr. Jacobs putting hypnotic suggestions in my mind that I had Multiple Personality Disorder, while I was in the vulnerable hypnotized state, and say that they feel sorry for him because I am persevering in making that abuse public. I think that anyone who has an understanding of the importance of ethics in research, and the protection of human research subjects, can recognize that his actions in doing that were beyond the pale, and that this should be known as a matter of public interest. I hope that one day you will take the time to examine the evidence related to this issue on my website.

Yeah, you are right, I should put aside the many hours of my valuable time to immerse myself in your drama before making and kind of statement about your case. For that I apologize, but I won't apologize for choosing not to become embroiled in your conflict as I sense "a hint" of obsession. My advise to you is: do what you need to do to resolve your issues and then move on with your life.

 

[Hoffmeister]

Daytime television aside, I think we can all agree that intelligent life exists on our planet. What evidence do we have that life exists on other planets? Hmm

I rest my case...

That doesnt mean anything. We don't know that there is any intelligent life other than humans on earth, there has never been a single grain of evidence. The fact that there are intelligent beings on this i.e. humans, who have been here for 1000's of years without uncovering any evidence of other indigenous intelligent beings kind of lends itself to the fact that nothing is here.
And another thing I dont understand, people always say that the crypto's or whatever are taking the forms of things we expect to see based upon current trends in an effort to remain anonymous... well wouldnt it make more sense if they disguised themself as an ordinary plane and flew across the sky instead of a 200 ft metallic object with bright flashing lights on?

---------- Post added at 08:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------

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Dr. Jacobs is trying to put it across that he thought that I had mental health problems from the beginning, to cover up the fact that he only began to say that I had mental health problems after I questioned his conduct as a researcher.

No offence, but if you had just posted your thoughts on the topic, perhaps mailed the information to a few podcasts and then just acted normal and basically said "this is why i think Jacobs is a jackass, but now i'm done with it" then it would probably have helped your case a lot more than hounding him to the ends of the earth wherever he goes... because people are just gonna think that anyone who does that has a high probability of being slightly crazy.
Personally I think Jacobs methods are unscientific, unethical and completely flawed, but there's no point going on and on about it. As they said in the episode, If a professional medical expert really did refer you to Jacobs, they should have their license taken away immediately and they are the real ones to blame.

 

[trainedobserver]

If a professional medical expert really did refer you to Jacobs, they should have their license taken away immediately and they are the real ones to blame.

I have to say that is the most rational thing I've heard in regards as how to proceed in this case. Dr. Jacobs isn't a medical doctor. If you had a medical professional recommend that you work with him I have to ask why you aren't taking that person to task as well.

Also, there is the fact that you made a conscious decision to place yourself "under the care" of an unqualified individual working in a fringe area of research that is highly controversial. Certainly you were aware of the risks involved in doing so.

If you let a shade-tree mechanic work on your Rolls Royce then you shouldn't be surprised if he fouls up the timing and gets mud on the floor-boards. Becoming indignant that they aren't Rolls Royce mechanics seems a bit misdirected.

 

[Emma]

Dr. Jacobs isn't a medical doctor. If you had a medical professional recommend that you work with him I have to ask why you aren't taking that person to task as well.

Also, there is the fact that you made a conscious decision to place yourself "under the care" of an unqualified individual working in a fringe area of research that is highly controversial. Certainly you were aware of the risks involved in doing so.

If you let a shade-tree mechanic work on your Rolls Royce then you shouldn't be surprised if he fouls up the timing and gets mud on the floor-boards. Becoming indignant that they aren't Rolls Royce mechanics seems a bit misdirected.

Dr. Jacobs presents himself to the public as a leading academic researcher in the area. His Bio on his website makes this clear. He has a page on his website in which he says that he provides information to therapists. It was entirely appropriate for my therapist to email him and ask him for advice in dealing with my case. Dr. Jacobs told my former therapist and myself that he had helped many therapists in America and other countries with their clients. Many of Dr. Jacobs' research subjects were referred to him by their therapists, not just me. My therapist is not responsible for Dr. Jacobs' subsequent mistreatment of me as his research subject. Dr. Jacobs is responsible for his own misconduct.

Dr. Jacobs did not present himself to me as a "shade-tree mechanic". He presented himself to me as a professional academic researcher. He told me that I would be a research subject of Temple University, participating in scholarly research. I signed Temple University Research Consent forms which stated this. This is why I agreed to become his research subject, and allowed myself to be hypnotized by him. I had a right to expect that my protections as a human research subject would be upheld. Instead, I was subjected to serious psychological abuse while I was in the vulnerable hypnotized state. Later, Temple University told me that the Temple University Research Consent forms that Dr. Jacobs got me to sign were "unauthorized" by them. This is obviously completely unacceptable behavior by an academic researcher.

The reason that I have persisted in making this issue public is because Dr. Jacobs has harmed innocent people, including myself, and it is important that this is known about as a matter of public interest. I am not the only research subject of Dr. Jacobs who has been hurt. However, there is no information publicly available about his misconduct other than on my website that I know of. This is in spite of the fact that other former research subjects of his have tried to say things about it. I believe that this is because it is a difficult task being heard in this field if you are a nobody trying to make public misconduct by a leading researcher who has a large fan base. Sending out a few emails is what other people have done, and it goes absolutely nowhere. It is why an abusive researcher like Dr. Jacobs has been able to continue in the field for so long without being held accountable. If you are a whistle-blower, which I am, You have to persevere over time, and stand against the vested interests of people who want to turn a blind eye to abuse to maintain their belief in an iconic figure. At some point there has to be accountability. I have the support to be able to make this issue public. If this means that other potential research subjects of Dr. Jacobs, or other researchers like him, are aware of what can happen to them and it protects them from being hurt in the same way, then that is what counts. If it can lead to "abduction" research being conducted in a safer manner, that makes it worth it.

 

[brownie]

Yeah, you are right, I should put aside the many hours of my valuable time to immerse myself in your drama before making and kind of statement about your case. For that I apologize, but I won't apologize for choosing not to become embroiled in your conflict as I sense "a hint" of obsession. My advise to you is: do what you need to do to resolve your issues and then move on with your life.

I see your visciousness continues, O'Brien. Yes, you should "put aside the many hours of" your time to at least know of what you're opining on. You arrogantly, ignorantly spewed unqualified, uneducated opinions and ad hominems over the airwaves and you're continuing it in this thread.

Speaking of "obsession" - You've chosen to blindly support the obviously troubled David Jacobs - who has been caught implanting MPD suggestions via hypnosis into Emma Woods because of his irrational belief that -1. hybrids exist/2. said hybrids read human minds/3. he can throw the hybrids off of his trail by doing so.

Hello? Trickster calling! Jacobs wacky belief system is a cautionary reminder from the late great John A. Keel about what ufology and the paranormal can do to susceptable people! Jacobs is a sad example of the *de*volution of a person's mind and behavior because of his ongoing "obsession" and fear of hybrids. And he hasn't even proven his apartment-dwelling, sexed-up hybrids exist!

O'Brien, Ever read Jacobs book - The Threat? Do so, so you won't "feel sorry" for him ever again once your mind has become thoroughly revolted with his hybrids "obsession". And read his viscious publics attacks on Emma Woods (on his site) as well as listening to her tapes of him. Consider it scholarship. And on the topic of scholarship, after hearing what you've said on the podcast and written here, I now have serious doubts about what you've written in your books. If you could so easily, unethically state an opinion based on no knowledge of the subject along with casting ad hominems against an innocent person; you could have made up all the high strangeness tales you wrote of. Oh what some people will do to sell a book or two and be a part-time host on a podcast.

 

[trainedobserver]

...He presented himself to me as a professional academic researcher. He told me that I would be a research subject of Temple University, participating in scholarly research. I signed Temple University Research Consent forms which stated this...

So you don't see yourself or your therapist as having any responsibility in your choice of working with Dr. Jacobs as a "research subject" in the highly controversial subject of "alien abductions?"

I think this affair has caused many people to reevaluate their thoughts about alien abduction research. I know my opinion of alien abduction research and the participants has certainly changed some due to this controversy.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

You arrogantly, ignorantly spewed unqualified, uneducated opinions and ad hominems over the airwaves and you're continuing it in this thread. Oh what some people will do to sell a book or two and be a part-time host on a podcast.

Go re-listen to my comments before you spew your over-the-top, emotional rage. I don't know who you are, but you obviously could use some help yourself. I said several times on the segment that I have a serious problem with the subject of abductions—especially the way they are "investigated" by those such as Jacobs. I am no fan, supporter or apologist for Jacobs and all the other fear-mongerers. Quite the opposite: They are a major part of the problem—not a part of any solution to the abduction mystery. Go find another target for your slings and arrows, I ain't playing your game. Oh, and please attempt to be a bit more civil, this board will not tolerate personal attacks.