Kieran, I think you are are right and wrong. The problem with any country rests in its government and financial institutions. These things, by their nature, are ideologically divisive. However, I think you may be buying into some popular propaganda a bit. I don't think that is all your fault. The media here and abroud sensationalizes things and uses highly edited clips and bits to bang home a point of social commentary. About 85% of Americans get it and 15% don't. Just so you how Americans generally perceive things. I have made a list. I am no fan of Palin, but she was not nearly the moron the media tried to paint her as. Anyway, here is a quick list.
1) We feel justified for Afghanistan. We now want our troops home.
2) We feel lied to for justification on invading Iraq. But, generally happy to rid the world of Saddam. We now want our troops home.
3) We do not want to repeat the injustices suffered by returning VietNam veterans, so we are very defensive of our troops. Perhaps this accounts for the perception you have that we are blind to atrocious. We are not. When an atrocity is proven we act swiftly and succinctly to punish the offender.
4) You only hear about the bad U.S. Troops. Nobody calls a press conference or creates YouTube videos for the average soldier. For every bad apple there are literally thousands of good ones. Believe and understand that soldiers are probably more highly critical of bad behavior than you or I am. They are keenly aware that it is a delicate balance between liberation and occupation and what kinds of danger each view brings.
5) Generally, Americans do not support war of any kind. Now, we are and accept the role as the Worlds Police. Why, because we are the biggest and most efficient military on the planet. When pushed we will fight and when we fight it is furious... within parameters.
6) We project a predominantly christian evangelical diplomacy model. Which is to say we approach all other cultures from that belief system and rarely take into consideration their model. The majority of America is fine with that. Many of us are not, but we are the major minority.
7) We are in no way akin to the Nazi regime. There is not one single parallel here that I will accept. Such a comparison is insightful and will inspire great ire. There are no concentration camps carrying out genocidal mass murder. There is no ominous and evil threat blanket promulgated by an SS secret police force that exists outside the law. No matter how you mean it, when you say "Hitler" or "Nazi" that is precisely what is conjured up.
8) The economy is our biggest worry. Forget Korea, China, Russia, or whatever else. We are concerned about how much money we have and if it is going to get better or worse. Everything else is filler.
Obviously there is more. But this is a good start. I am not being facetious in any way here. The above 7 are things i feel pretty good about saying that 80% of Americans agree on. Now, sure as I write this I will be proven wrong.
But, at least I don't have to worry about someone locking me up because I disagree with the nationalized propaganda.
Ron, I live outside the United States, so maybe, I am not overloaded with the burden of being an American patriot and citizen. And I am better placed maybe then you, to judge the failings of American foreign policy since 9/11? That is not how it is. I've not fallen for any propaganda directed at your country, and I don't think, that widespread propaganda directed against your Country exists in way you think it does. The truth sometimes hurts Ron, as they say, and that is what is happening here I believe. I like to believe I have a working brain still, and it is a tricky situation I find myself in, I know lot of my feelings on this will not gone down well with some of you, but I think it better to talk about it then not at all!
You've raised some points and will give my opinion on some of it or maybe all of it?.
I at the time 9/11 happened, and after it, and I believe a majority of Europeans felt the same way probably? Well supported American efforts to go after the people that carried these actions out on that day. I felt it was right to do so, that was my opinion in 2001. The bad sentiment towards your country only became noticeable, and noted was, when the UN meeting took place with Colin Powell, just before the war started in Iraq, this is what has divided opinion till this day Ron, not that American had a right to go after the people that done 9/11. Point 1,2,3 you posted are important.
The fact is, a proven fact, the war in Iraq was illegal under international law. People in your country supporting the war in Iraq today and elsewhere have forgotten that very important point. The only country that supported this war in a meaningful way was Britain, the rest the majority of other countries refused to sanction it Ron, so it was an war that was "Illegal" well we used to have rules before that, but America through them out the window, and America effectively killed the UN that day, now it just a talking shop with no real power to speak of. American went to war on a lie, and every country knew the evidence presented at the UN was a lie, that is why the vast majority of member countries voted, and would not support this war Ron.
America, stumbled and lied all the way through this process for war, your country was granted no UN Resolution to carry out this action, even though it was all the time before the invasion a UN based mission to keep Saddam in check and stop him from harming other countries. The intelligence was false and has been now proven to have been morally wrong and corrupt, the evidence that was actually around at the time not the heavily edited intelligence briefings suggesting there was no WMD's in Iraq at all, Bush and his mates wanted this war, it did not matter if Saddam had weapons of mass destruction or not, Bush wanted regime-change and he was going to get it at any cost even if it cost American soldier lives.
Everyone wants to see American troops return home, but realistically the plans are not there to fully redraw after peace does come if it does! This is a long-term plan Ron. I like think it would happen, but it ain't ain't going to happen for least another twenty years or even more Ron. Nobody will miss Saddam, but if that it why America went to war, say so, but the fact the most powerful nation on the planet has lied throughout this sorry affair, well you can't really blame people for not trusting the foreign policy of your country now can you?
The Neo-Con position in the United States is a good one. In the last twenty years many positions of power were held by people who supported the aims of this group Ron. There is lot of interviews given by these people over the years, and there was no shyness about their beliefs, and they've declared what they want to see happen in that region of the world, and they've have openly expressed their opinions without much complaint too by the media.
The Neo-Con agenda is to have the whole of the Middle East go democratic and if force can achieve does aims that is perfectly ok with them. Some if aims to be achieved do require the take-over of other countries in that region that are now Islamic, and lot of these thoughts go back to the late seventies way before 9/11. Lot of people who have money support these aims, and have supported certain people in politics today and in the past to go about putting this aims into practice hence the Iraq war and upcoming Iran war. Bureaucrats and leaders are obviously been bossed around, and I think the Neo-Con influence took hold back around the time of Reagan, and still is there with Obama he is another puppet on a string. Islam has its problems, but another country has no right to change how another region does things, that is for the people in the region to decide its called self-determination, just like want your nation wanted, when it decided to fight the British for Independence.
Point3) Vietnam was another illegal war, but that is whole different issue the reasons for that war are pretty well-known. But the main reason for that war was the spread of communism in Asia. it was largely out of self interest America sent troops in there, but the threat was a real one, even if there was lies, told to get there. That war started with the French really and later brought in the Americans, and Yes I understand American troops deserve better than what VietNam vets received on returning home from the battlefield, certainly support the troops, but that is not reason to give a pass on what has happened over there since 2003. War is tough and certainly is true soldiers are in though circumstances over there, but if we start making excuses for soldiers who have have committed acts that are wrong, then these type of events will continue on always.
I personally don't buy into that logic Ron, soldiers can't be more careful when not under fire! I posted an opinion on one of the videos shown by Wikileaks, not one person here commented on it, yet what it showed was a balant disregard for human live, the man killed was just a passing a building, that was going to be blown up by an American helicopter. The pilots were in the safety of their own helicopter, the pilots were not been fired at that I could see, and if they waited just ten seconds, the man would have passed safely, but no the helicopter just fired, the person who fired the gun should be charged with killing the civilian on the street passing the building.
Sorry Ron, no bloody excuse for that action and the fact these leaked documents have proven that tens of thousands not hundreds Ron have died in non-combat related incidents, should give you as an American citizen lot of pause. Some of these killings were probably mistakes, but tens of thousands of young men and women and children have died since 2003, as also the fact your country covered this all up makes it even more suspicious at least to me anyway. There is of course lot of good soldiers, the majority are decent-human beings fighting for a cause they believe in, but there is a minority, that have no place been over there, being handed a gun or been behind a tank or piloting an attack helicopter, and these deaths are prove that this minority has no place been in that army ever!
Point 5 and 6 .. Point 5 America for long time has chosen to be the world policeman. Sorry most of the conflicts since the Korean war and Vietnam war have been self interest wars. It took a long time for America to engage with European powers over the Balkans war, and that tarnished some of the relations with their European allies at that time.
America had no interest been there, it held no self-interest for ye, but eventually the UN got ye on board over time. If America goes to War with Iran or North Korea, which is looking very likely every day now. It will effect me emotionally but not physically, ok it will hit me in the pocket too, but it will effect your country on every level and your partner Israel and countries around them and South Korea, Japan and China.
The fact is and to be blunt. There was no American-policeman, when we under occupation. We had to fight and beat the British out ourselfs, as a country we have always been on our own fighting against oppression from foreigners without outside help. So my views are somewhat different in outlook to you that is to be expected I guess.
Point6. Christian Evangelical diplomacy, is one of the reasons, why today young men and women find themselves in Iraq today. A large majority of power brokers and makers, who hold important positions of influence, and many members of your Congress and Senate, do share that outlook on life. My opinion well this has been detrimental for your society and other societies abroad. The cost of which has not been fully revealed yet Ron, but the upcoming wars, and probably the collapse of the dollar in the next few years, will be very revealing should be interesting times ahead Ron.
America, at this time now like many others, is a Zombie-nation, it can't afford, the debts it has amassed over the years. That is one reason, the federal-reserve is printing more money each day, well it is being done to keep your markets and world-markets afloat. Just pushing it down the road for a later-time, but every asset sold in the your country today, could not pay back the trillions your country owes to investors Ron.
The bankers who claim, they are Christians and whatnot, have bankrupted countries across the planet out of greed, basically what they have done is gone and asked Governments for a hand-out, Governments in theory, are meant, and are elected to help the poor and weakest of society, more so. Well the fact is. Governments are dependent on banks themselves, in fact most Westernised Governments are today in the bed with private bankers and self interest groups, who are predominately rich afterall, so there is conflict if interest there already.
The example is, your Government and mine Ron have taken our money, and handed it to people who fell into trouble after speculating with their private money, but instead of the other way around Ron, the government helping the lowest of society, no it made them pay for the mistakes of the rich!
Governments have used Taxpayer monies to pay them back. It's is gambling on a global scale. They'd can't lose because bankers no if they lose large sums of money! Governments will then step in as they have done already with these bail-outs and take care of them. Us poor idiots suffer not the idiots who gambled. Its kind of of-topic, but it is important to understand what is going on here behind the scenes, that citizens are been messed with, and that lower the man is in status the capitalist cares less.
Point 7)This post is very long winded lol, but just to finally say "Guantanamo bay".. by all definitions Ron, would be considered a concentration camp. Individuals who are Muslim with that type of background, have been seized and kidnapped, and have been flown to that camp from other countries illegally, detained without any legal discourse to speak of too. Some of the people detained have been tortured Ron and beaten, and some reliable reports suggest some inmates have died over the years, while under the supervision of American personnel!
Some of the detainees have been released recently in the last few years, held for years, without having done anything wrong, but this detainees will be forever be ruined, by the experience they went through mentally and emotionally.
A similar thing happened to the Jews, Gypsies and other elements the Nazis believed were enemies to the German State were shipped out to these camps. There has been been no extermination at the camp at Guantanamo, but still a concentration camp for those that are considered not friendly to your country, no rights at all been given not even allowed contact with relatives, even prisoners in jails have more right then detainees have there Ron.
You should out check some of the laws passed in your country since 9/11. homeland security is like the Gestapo, it spies on people in your own country tapping phones, and whatnot arresting people without due cause, I think people are only seeing the beginning here, it not a conspiracy Ron, your congress has passed some really fishy bills that Americans really need to pay attention to before it is too late. I have other reasons, but enough said on this for the moment.
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is robbing of assets of other countries (which in mind was one of main reasons Hitler attacked other countries in Europe and elsewhere) anyway who tells me this Iraq war was not about oil and destroying Islam for good, does not understand the Neo-Con Doctrine, and its aims and i leave it at that! .....what are some examples of the U.S. Robbing the assets of other countries? For my own understanding,I would like to know.
Private companies and assets like oil are now under the control of foreign companies were previously they were not. Your Government benefits from all this, you cant have a true democracy, when you have an occupation force there, it common sense. All money in and out of that country is controlled by outsiders. Iraq has no government that is just nonsense to believe they have.
There is actual 323 page document from your state department that lies it all out that the Neo-Cons wanted to destroy OPEC, but cheney, wanted to keep OPEC there was an internal battle there about what to do. All this was reported by that BBC it aired in 2005. But it conclusively showed that this war was about oil more so then it was not.
