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3/25/2012 - Brendon O'Brien - Brilliant, Bigoted or just plain Whacky?

Hello Paracast listeners Brendon O’Brien here.


My understanding came after many years of studying comparative religion and becoming an active member in the Church of Santaria at Casa Obatala Boston, a Chaplain for Zetland Lodge in Boston (the oldest Masonic lodge in the country) as well as actively researched other western esoteric traditions and orders for many years.

Sorry. Not true. Zetland Lodge was constituted in 1867, a far cry from the oldest. Many American Lodges hail from the 1700s. For the record, the oldest still existing (and used for meetings) Lodge building "in the country" would be Richmond-Randolph Lodge # 19, Richmond, Virginia built in 1785.

As for the episode. I turned it off early. I agree with others that with so many participants, it was not much signal and a whole lot of noise.
 
Well, I haven't had a chance to listen to the episode yet - I wonder where what I am gonna think? I haven't seen so much argy-bargy about an episode in a while.

Now, I noticed that Kevin Smith had AAAAAAAaron Kaaaaaaplan on. I wonder if Kevin managed to hold it together while doing the show? You know, like Chris did -when he didn't just burst out laughing at the insanity. Or did I get that the wrong way round?
 
What a load of shite!... Roman Catholic church = catholics + roman empire = old rituals... BFG! Who didnt know that?
Jesus wasnt born on dec 25th.. thats an old pagan date, didnt rise at easter... thats another pagan date....so?
exterminated some indigenous races... like the romans,english, dutch, french... and every other nation that explored the planet!
I'm not saying it's ok I'm just saying this isnt the only case...
2012... End of world... oh no !!!!! serious.. is this Alex Jones or C2C?
As for the duracell soul thing... Garbage!
what happened to asking the serious questions?
Noise!!!
 
Finished listening.

Yeah, that whole part about granite batteries was a bit of a WTF moment :-/

What was said by Jonnie that modern Mayas have such deep religious beliefs in reincarnation that they are not bothered that much by the accidents and catastrophes they suffer in this present life doesn't coincide with what one can read in the newspapers.

Because if that was the case, then we would never had heard of the EZLN (Zapatista National Liberation Army)

ezln_zapatista.jpg


The Zapatistas started the insurrection in January of 94 to remind the rest of Mexico as a warning call, because while we were all so psyched with NAFTA and how we were all going to become a 1st world country in the XXist century, the Zapatistas came to remind us that after 5 centuries of oppression THEY were still there, demanding to be recognized as equal citizens.
 
I was raised Catholic and I have recently returned to going to mass as a way of meditation and peaceful participation in something I find helps me spiritually. I question my faith all the time. I have no answers. I don't know what will happen when I die.

Eckhart Tolls wrote a really cool book called A New Earth. In it he says people and religions talk about God as if they have it all figured out and know exactly what "GOD" is. In the same way many people say the opposite and deny that "GOD" exists, as if they have any concept of what it is they are denying. Wow! That is some powerful and well thought objective tinkkng about belief and non belief in deities.

Many of you seem like hard core atheists, and I recognize what you're saying because I used to be one too. Now that I go to church again I feel like I have a much more objective point of view. I don't follow the Pope or the rules of the church with blind faith and I disagree with many of the tenets and politicization of the Catholic church. I also acknowledge the heinous history of bloody conquest the church has in its notorious past. But I think that an outright condemnation of all Catholics is just lazy. It's like saying this... they assimilated many cultures along the way so anyone who has anything to do with them is a kook!

There are millions of people in the world that practice Catholicism that are excellent and thoughtful people. There are Catholics who are pieces of shit. There are people like that everywhere on Earth even amongst the Mayans and other assimilated and non assimilated peoples everywhere.

I'd like to hear some feedback from other forum posters on this. Am I way out in left field here? Am I out in left field for being interested in the paranormal?
 
I was thinking that this had to do with it. Thanks you made that clear. You'll have to admit, though, that for people like me, who weren't expecting something like that and who don't know the context, the theory does really sound "out there". I was born into Catholicism myself and got to be quite disenchanted with it, so that I would consider that there might have been groups of fanatical Catholics back in medieval times who would come up with stuff like that. But it sure sounds like something out of a nastier kind of Dan Brown novel. No doubt there have been unimaginable atrocities over the centuries in the name of the church, but this black magick stuff, I don't know.

As for the show, I was surprised that no one seemed to have a doubt that some change or other is about (although it may not have to do with Mayan calendars or december 2012). Seems that more and more people are seeing that things can't go on the way they do...?


You know Polter, I wouln't call it 'black magic' but really all the symbolism and rituals and ceremony of the Catholic Church is very reminiscent of rituals of black magic. Remember, there are symbols about blood and cannibalism to a degree and it's all designed to either reinforce the power and awe of God or if it is prayer, then it is ritual that has a request attached. Still really sounds like voodoo or something.

Not for one minute do I blame the entire Catholic Church for the child abuse scandal - it's worse than that really, it's the higher-ups who are to blame and they are the ones that are supposed to set an example world-wide. The inquisition is one part of why I dislike most religions - it's this attitude of being so sure you are right that you believe a higher power you've never met and has never contacted you, gives you his blessing to torture and immolate people in the name of this God? Granted, this happened in an earlier, less enlightened time - but even today, worldwide, people kill other people in the sure belief that they are doing it in the name of their God. There is zero evidence for a God of the Bible. Zero. So there is this really handy thing called 'faith' which allows people to act in a certain way, sometimes with severe consequences, in the name of this God for whom exists no proof, certainly that he gives his blessing to these heinous acts carried out in his name. It's the presumption of being right solely on faith that gets my goat in a way unequalled by anything else I can think of.

I meet people who are religious but refreshingly, some of them are happy to admit that faith is a struggle for them, that they don't know, but are continually seeking answers. To that I have only admiration. It's those who are cock-sure they are right that I have in my metaphorical sights!
 
I was thinking that this had to do with it. Thanks you made that clear. You'll have to admit, though, that for people like me, who weren't expecting something like that and who don't know the context, the theory does really sound "out there". I was born into Catholicism myself and got to be quite disenchanted with it, so that I would consider that there might have been groups of fanatical Catholics back in medieval times who would come up with stuff like that. But it sure sounds like something out of a nastier kind of Dan Brown novel. No doubt there have been unimaginable atrocities over the centuries in the name of the church, but this black magick stuff, I don't know.

As for the show, I was surprised that no one seemed to have a doubt that some change or other is about (although it may not have to do with Mayan calendars or december 2012). Seems that more and more people are seeing that things can't go on the way they do...?


You know Polter, I wouln't call it 'black magic' but really all the symbolism and rituals and ceremony of the Catholic Church is very reminiscent of rituals of black magic. Remember, there are symbols about blood and cannibalism to a degree and it's all designed to either reinforce the power and awe of God or if it is prayer, then it is ritual that has a request attached. Still really sounds like voodoo or something.

Not for one minute do I blame the entire Catholic Church for the child abuse scandal - it's worse than that really, it's the higher-ups who are to blame and they are the ones that are supposed to set an example world-wide. The inquisition is one part of why I dislike most religions - it's this attitude of being so sure you are right that you believe a higher power you've never met and has never contacted you, gives you his blessing to torture and immolate people in the name of this God? Granted, this happened in an earlier, less enlightened time - but even today, worldwide, people kill other people in the sure belief that they are doing it in the name of their God. There is zero evidence for a God of the Bible. Zero. So there is this really handy thing called 'faith' which allows people to act in a certain way, sometimes with severe consequences, in the name of this God for whom exists no proof, certainly that he gives his blessing to these heinous acts carried out in his name. It's the presumption of being right solely on faith that gets my goat in a way unequalled by anything else I can think of.

I meet people who are religious but refreshingly, some of them are happy to admit that faith is a struggle for them, that they don't know, but are continually seeking answers. To that I have only admiration. It's those who are cock-sure they are right that I have in my metaphorical sights!
 
I was thinking that this had to do with it. Thanks you made that clear. You'll have to admit, though, that for people like me, who weren't expecting something like that and who don't know the context, the theory does really sound "out there". I was born into Catholicism myself and got to be quite disenchanted with it, so that I would consider that there might have been groups of fanatical Catholics back in medieval times who would come up with stuff like that. But it sure sounds like something out of a nastier kind of Dan Brown novel. No doubt there have been unimaginable atrocities over the centuries in the name of the church, but this black magick stuff, I don't know.

As for the show, I was surprised that no one seemed to have a doubt that some change or other is about (although it may not have to do with Mayan calendars or december 2012). Seems that more and more people are seeing that things can't go on the way they do...?


You know Polter, I wouln't call it 'black magic' but really all the symbolism and rituals and ceremony of the Catholic Church is very reminiscent of rituals of black magic. Remember, there are symbols about blood and cannibalism to a degree and it's all designed to either reinforce the power and awe of God or if it is prayer, then it is ritual that has a request attached. Still really sounds like voodoo or something.

Not for one minute do I blame the entire Catholic Church for the child abuse scandal - it's worse than that really, it's the higher-ups who are to blame and they are the ones that are supposed to set an example world-wide. The inquisition is one part of why I dislike most religions - it's this attitude of being so sure you are right that you believe a higher power you've never met and has never contacted you, gives you his blessing to torture and immolate people in the name of this God? Granted, this happened in an earlier, less enlightened time - but even today, worldwide, people kill other people in the sure belief that they are doing it in the name of their God. There is zero evidence for a God of the Bible. Zero. So there is this really handy thing called 'faith' which allows people to act in a certain way, sometimes with severe consequences, in the name of this God for whom exists no proof, certainly that he gives his blessing to these heinous acts carried out in his name. It's the presumption of being right solely on faith that gets my goat in a way unequalled by anything else I can think of.

I meet people who are religious but refreshingly, some of them are happy to admit that faith is a struggle for them, that they don't know, but are continually seeking answers. To that I have only admiration. It's those who are cock-sure they are right that I have in my metaphorical sights!
 
Yeah I'm disgusted by the child abuse stuff as well. These participants should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and their superiors who had guilty knowledge should be equally punished. Just don't let the loud mouth cock sure arrogant true believers put you off entirely. The basic message of Jesus was love and the basic tenet of most religions is love anything else is a filtered version. Buddhism Christianity Judaism Islam all teac h love and compassion at the core.
 
I think belief in love and compassion is the basis of faith. And that's why there is the expression God is love. When we boil it down its love of ourselves and our fellow human beings that binds us, not an agreement on which god or which book of stories is the best, because we have no proof of anything, but we can have faith in ourselves and in each other and that is something we can believe in.
 
I was raised Catholic and I have recently returned to going to mass as a way of meditation and peaceful participation in something I find helps me spiritually. I question my faith all the time. I have no answers. I don't know what will happen when I die.

Eckhart Tolls wrote a really cool book called A New Earth. In it he says people and religions talk about God as if they have it all figured out and know exactly what "GOD" is. In the same way many people say the opposite and deny that "GOD" exists, as if they have any concept of what it is they are denying. Wow! That is some powerful and well thought objective tinkkng about belief and non belief in deities.

Many of you seem like hard core atheists, and I recognize what you're saying because I used to be one too. Now that I go to church again I feel like I have a much more objective point of view. I don't follow the Pope or the rules of the church with blind faith and I disagree with many of the tenets and politicization of the Catholic church. I also acknowledge the heinous history of bloody conquest the church has in its notorious past. But I think that an outright condemnation of all Catholics is just lazy. It's like saying this... they assimilated many cultures along the way so anyone who has anything to do with them is a kook!

There are millions of people in the world that practice Catholicism that are excellent and thoughtful people. There are Catholics who are pieces of shit. There are people like that everywhere on Earth even amongst the Mayans and other assimilated and non assimilated peoples everywhere.

I'd like to hear some feedback from other forum posters on this. Am I way out in left field here? Am I out in left field for being interested in the paranormal?

I think our stories might not be that dissimilar.

I was raised a Catholic as well, and all my life I attended Catholic private schools --even in college! I went to the Universidad Iberoamericana, run by the Jesuits.

There's one time when I was very devout and struggled to follow the tenants of the faith. Later as I grew older I began to question more and more about the dogmas; also, my interest in the 'paranormal' allowed me to look at many of the interpretations made by the church in a different light.

So now I don't consider myself a Catholic, and I'm a very harsh critic of their many errors and mistakes --I used to be something of a polite troll in a Catholic blog called Busted Halos ;)-- and I just wrote a letter in the Reforma newspaper criticizing the opinion of a bishop that complained how the stories of sexual abuses committed by members of the clergy were just 'three little stains' on a big white wall, but because of those little stains now people wanted all the wall to be painted ; that. Pissed. Me. Off.

Having said that, I also find that nowadays attacks to the Catholic church has become a, shall we say, acceptable form of bigotry. Like Islam, people view the Church as an image of everything that's wrong with religion and a belief in a higher meaning in the Universe. And I find myself as much revolted by that stance, as by the myopic refusal of the Vatican to accept their many mistakes.

As a Mexican one is taught in grade-school to hate the Spaniards that came driven by their gold-lust and destroyed the many wonderful civilizations that flourished in Mesoamerica. But this is a very skewed and biased vision of the past --fueled by a spirit of Nationalism obviously-- And after I found two books in my path, one The Heart of Jade by Salvador de Madariaga, and the other Regina by Antonio Velasco Piña, my ideas re. the Spanish Conquista changed.

Because, let's face it, with the Conquista one form of brutality was replaced by another. Just as the Spaniards justified crimes like the Inquisition by telling themselves the flesh was expendable as long as you managed to save the immortal soul of the sinner, so too most cultures in the Americas justified their ritual human sacrifices as necessary to sustain the cosmic balance.

And even without religion humans are only to happy to resort to brutality.

On a personal note, I have chosen to search my personal contact with God away from institutions and sanctioned dogmas. But I'm not ready just yet to throw away ALL of the teachings of the Church. Nor I will overlook the missionary work many of its members have conducted to try to improve the lives of less fortunate and the forgotten.

Aside from all the scandals and the quarrels and misunderstandings, there's always a kernel of hope in the message of Christianity. A message that we are not alone, and that there's something greater than ourselves that cares about our well-being.

vguadalupe.jpg


Therein lies the real strength of their message, and why people are not just ready to turn their backs away.
 
No, you are right. There are good people in every race, religion, country, whatever. For sure and no-one argues. For me though, the Catholic Church has shown to be a wickedly self-serving business for a long time IMO. What I cannot stand is the position of the Pope. Not the man, the position just as I think about the Ayatollah in Iran. These people are put up as some kind of deity almost and they make pronouncements that affect millions. That to me is against the spirit of the Bible. Now, I don't make too much of the Bible as the direct word of 'God' or anything near it but the fact of the matter is, many millions of people do see the Bible in those terms. Fine. I just hate when people convince themselves they have the answer or in the case of the pope, that some political-type rise to power in this institution then affords that man god-like powers to dictate things, the gravity of no less than the commandments. So the Pope seems to me to be almost as revered as God and to be obeyed pretty much the same?

Sorry, I think all religions are man-made and while they do of course contain many core-truths that could only benefit mankind if we were to follow them, the fact there are different religions that are mutually exclusive leads me to think that because they cannot all be right, they must all be wrong. It would be even harder to believe if just one religion was the only true one.

Half of my family are very religious. Not the types to say so, the types to act so without any witness or prompting. I love them all to death but in terms of what happens after death, they could as well get something from an episode of Coast to Coast AM. During this life however, if they truly feel a benefit from their religion then who am I to stand in the way of that?

I just feel that sometimes people only act in a way to help others because it's what their holy book tells them to do. So by obeying these books they get into heaven? Well, I don't think there is a heaven or any sort of reckoning for the 'soul'. I seek no reward after death or eternal life either. But I still choose to help rather than hinder, to understand, to do the right thing. That just comes so naturally to me I don't believe anyone else doesn't feel the same. You don't need a book written 1500 years ago to tell you whats right and what's wrong. You know it. I don't see a need for religion in that we should act that way regardless of whether there is a god or not.

If you feel a benefit or comfort from attending mass - I genuinely wish you the best and if it brings you some joy, all the better. Long may it continue. I just feel it is believing in stories that are made up (parables etc) to illustrate things and having this 'son of god' jesus character is just a typical part of any cult or belief system. Usually there is something to revere that is above reproach, above us. And that's ok too - I just don't think a man called Jesus Christ was really any supernaturally created son of god who was sent to Earth to absolve man of his sins. Not buying it one little bit. Some good points to it though, no argument there.

It is not my intention to offend or make some character assassination of the Catholic church. I just dislike some aspects of that church a little more than some others but they all peddle the same unprovable line. Funny thing is when you find out someone who debunks UFOs and they are quite religious. One thing is totally out of normality and doesn't happen to normal people, the other is the UFO phenomenon.
 
I'm finishing Arthur C. Clarke's Rendezvous with Rama right now. Clarke, like all the great writers who ascribed to 'hard' science fiction, was very agnostic towards religion --even though IMO the cinematic sequence in 2001 where David Bowman becomes the Starchild is as close as you can come to illustrate an Apotheosis-- So I was pleasantly surprised that in Rama he portrays what he calls the 'Cosmo Christers' --a fictional religion (don't start now!) in which their devotees believed Jesus had been a visitor of another planet-- as balanced, respected and well-loved bunch of individuals.

I think the reason why Clarke showed them like that, it's because he also wrote that the CCers were very reserved and never tried to convince or enroll anyone into their faith. THAT is key IMO, and I think that's the approach modern faiths will need to adopt in the decades to come: to acknowledge that the time for proselytizing and evangelization is over; that it's better to suggest and insinuate than to fight and argument.

And, above all, that there's no better persuasive argument than teaching with your actions, instead of mere words.
 
Right on. I think Jesus would have been a cool guy to go to a baseball game with and have a hot dog and a soda. I also think he would be pretty confused by what people have turned his ideology into, with all the ritual and rules. I often think the lot of it is baloney. I go to church to recharge and reinvigorate my spiritual side. What happens in my head and my heart is tapping into the universal condition of being human and trying to do good and lead a decent life. In this dog eat dog world going a million miles an hour, its a wonderful refuge to be able to escape for an hour each week to a place of peace. But the Pope is not my boss and Jesus is not my copilot.
 
I try to apply the same amount of reason in my spiritual belief that apply to everything else. I don't want to be drink the "true believer kool-aid" without first knowing what the ingredients are!
 
I am not seeing anything here about the Inquisitions, much of which was used to murder Jews and take their worldly goods by the Catholic Church. Some groups also estimate that several million women where branded as witches by the church and murdered over several centuries. Most due to the fact they used alternative healing methods or had property the church wanted.
The Catholic Church isn't the only xtian group that has done things to other people. Study the Protestant domination of Ireland over many centuries or what passes for religion in Northern AZ along the border. If that isn't child abuse, I am not sure what is.
 
Is it only the God of the Abrahamic faiths that you are so dismissive of? Because there certainly is a pretty wide range of the conceptions of God under that umbrella.



See: mutually exclusive.

Sorry Berean - I just actually properly read this post. You are correct, in my statement about zero evidence of a biblical God I may have come across as 'having the truth' whilst dismissing others. I am in error.
It is my responsibility to word my arguments (not all facts, sure) correctly, especially if I am picking holes with other people.

I hope I am a big enough adult to admit my mistake and that you will take this reply as genuine. Thanks for putting me straight - I absolutely deserved it! :)
 
With all the talk about man-made global warming in this episode, I'm surprised no one has started debating that!
I'm just getting around to this episode today.
 
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