2012: What Does it Mean and Why Should We Care?

[Christopher O'Brien]

OK, it's 2012 and the world is supposed to end sometime in December, right? Earthquakes, tsunamis and weird weather events escalate, the poles are shifting and Santorum rises in the south. It appears we are on "a bumpy ride" toward uncertainty. Interpretations of Hopi prophesies being fulfilled (which may result in palulukang -the feathered serpent-- causing the "world to flip over four times,") and the Mayan suggestion that one would be advised to live above the elevation of San Cristobal (7,200 feet) poke us with a reminder that we may be living in cataclysmic times.

Or is this Y2012K?

The Paracast presents a free-wheeling roundtable that looks at Meso-American prophesy concerning the "end of [this] fourth-world." As discussed on previous shows, the Mayan calenderical system has been overly abused by the media, and to help sort it out, we welcome first-time guests, Brendon O'Brien and Jonnie Channell (who lived w/ the Maya and coordinate specialized tours to the Maya lands) to help bring us up-to-speed about this crucial time at the end of the baktun cycle. And that's just one cycle found in over 17 Mayan calenders--several of which are clicking over, etc, ...

We live in a big world, and the Mayan view of these times are echoed further north in the USA and probably around the world. Zuni elder --Clifford Mahooty-- returns to the Paracast and provides us with an insightful Southwest US indigenous context to help us objectively analyze these so-called "end times."

Please post your questions here--we are taping this Monday...

 

[CitizenK]

My understanding of the Maya 2012 date is that it isn't the end of the world but the beginning of a new era/cycle. Is this true? And does this in turn mean that like the labour and birth of a new child there will be some pain to deal with but also beauty to behold?
Also, I do not understand this talk of a new sun (3 days of darkness or something) , what exactly does that entail? How does our sun begin anew?

 

[wwkirk]

I think you're right about the new cycle. If their civilization didn't collapse, they would have continued the calendar. I think the new sun idea just refers to a new epoch. I think we are in the 4th sun now and will move into the 5th. The literal sun won't change in any specific way beyond the usual sunspots and so forth--I'm no expert; this is just my general impression.--But I'm willing to bet that the world won't be ending on Dec. 21. That said, there might be some "Heaven's Gate" type lunacy as the date grows near.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

A lot of people are touting the Mayan's as being an "extinct" peoples, however I've seen several shows and documentaries now (including The Paracast) in which people claiming to be modern day Mayan's are speaking out and some are even addressing the meaning around 2012, trying to set the New Agers and preppers straight. How much of the Mayan culture is still around and, for that matter, how many Meso-Americans can trace their heritage and bloodline back to actual Mayans who may have lived 5 to 10 thousand years ago?

 

[wwkirk]

For unknown reasons Classic Mayan civilization collapsed during the 8th and 9th centuries long before the arrival of the Spanish. Their descendents continued to exist, however, along with written materials. But, according to Wikipedia, "The Spanish Church and government officials destroyed Maya texts and with them the knowledge of Maya writing, but by chance three of the pre-Columbian books dated to the post classic period have been preserved. These are known as the Madrid Codex, The Dresden Codex and the Paris Codex. The last Maya states, the Itza polity of Tayasal and the Ko'woj city of Zacpeten, were continuously occupied and remained independent of the Spanish until late in the 17th century. They were finally subdued by the Spanish in 1697."

Nevertheless, a considerable amount of hieroglyphic writing of "over 10,000 known individual Maya inscriptions on buildings, monuments, pottery and bark-paper codices" survives and has been fully deciphered.

As mentioned, the people continue to exist, so it is the city based Mayan civilization that vanished not the people. And since the civilization was still around 1200 years ago, they would still appear to be real descendents of the classic Maya. Not only that, independent Maya states still existed a few hundred years ago. They are around 7 million strong today.

 

[Polterwurst]

Why did the Mayan high culture end (in your opinion as there seems to be no consent about it)? Is there a single event or circumstance that could explain this?

Why did the Mayans come up with all of these complicated calendars? You would think that one or two would suffice for agricultural use?

Who came up with the idea that the Mayans thought 2012 would bring the end of days? Is there any evidence they really believed that? What do their descendants today think about it?

Why do you think so many people really want to believe that the world is ending or at least some big game-changer is coming?

About the origins of Mayan culture, have we found more "primitive" pre-Mayan settlements and cultures in these places or did they "suddenly appear" with all their astronomical knowledge, calendars etc. (as I've heard).

No, I'm not thinking Atlantis, but I've heard about some really old place they dug up in Tierra del Fuego which might be a "cradle of civilisation". Do you think there are more discoveries of ancient cultures ahead which as yet have been "lost in time"?

Why did astronomy play such a prominent role in many of the ancient cultures? Really only because of the agricultural implications? The way I have been taught in history lessons, they should have regarded the night sky as not much more than a big dome with some lights attached to it. Or is there evidence that at least some cultures knew or felt that there was a little more depth to it? Maybe even whole worlds hidden in there?

 

[wwkirk]

I'll only answer one of your questions for now. Because the present long count calendar ends this year in December, some people go woo hoo, its the end of time. But in reality, it just means a new count gets started. In my opinion, the Maya would have continued the calendar as a matter of course, but they declined and so didn't make any further calendars. I think this accident of history is all there is to it.

And to answer one more question. I don't think there is any reason to think the Mayans emerged all of a sudden at an advanced stage. There is plenty of prehistory in the Americas, an entire preclassic stage.. Anyhow, I've never heard of that idea.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I'll only answer one of your questions for now.

You might want to open another thread on this topic---this is the "Question Thread" for our upcoming guests who we are taping on Monday morning....

 

[Polterwurst]

Uh....yeah, that's what my questions were meant for, wwkirk. Sorry, maybe I should have stated that to set them apart from your preceding post.