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cottonzway said:
Dang.

I wanted to ask Don to break down in detail what a fraud and crazy person Bill Cooper was. He has done great work on him and there are a lot of people who are into conspiracies that get introduced to him and it would be cool to have a nicely broken down piece of audio to present to people who think he was some great guy and conspiracy hero.
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Hey Cotton, it has been a long time since I've seen you post. Great question by the way.

In the last several years I have occasionally seen posts and remarks by Cooper supporters around the web. Up on the Above Top Secret site a number of folks have attached links on my Cooper show that I did several years ago and suggested these supporters listen to it along with links to my exposes I did on Cooper that ran in UFO Magazine. It is obvious that most of those guys refused to check the show or exposes out. You know how it goes ... "don't try to confuse me with facts, my mind is made up!" As far as I am concerned, the bottom line is actually pretty simple. If they believe ... then they will continue to believe. It doesn't matter at all what you show, tell them or offer to have them listen to. Even if it is Cooper himself. I pretty much quit trying. Hell, he has been dead since 2001. If those people don't know by now they never will. I think that is pretty much the end of the story.

Decker
 
starise said:
I apparently missed this round. At some point I would like to know after years of study into UFOs what your conclusions are on the matter? I know at one point you were very upset over the way the so called UFO scene panned out, enough to drop out. Have things gotten any better since then in your opinion?
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Hi starrise. My conclusions? LOL ... that would take more time than I have here for this post. Let us just agree on this ... if anything, in my opinion things are worse ... much worse. But, you understand that is simply my opinion. Your conclusions may show a different result.....

Decker
 
Angel of Ioren said:
Why do you think people that claim to have extraordinary evidence have the tendency to never show it? For example, people like Ted Phillips and Ray Stanford claim to have all these amazing images, but they rarely show it. Or when it finally does come to light, like Phillips' Marley Woods creature, it turns out to be pretty thin. Do you think people get too close to it and become unable to properly judge what they have?
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Hey Angelo, how goes it? Boy, you cut right to the heart of the matter. If ... and let me stress if ... someone has the evidence ... and especially if they tout it ... then in my opinion they must show it. Ray has supposedly had the evidence for a long time and yet he has not brought it out for the public to judge. After a while any one who has been following this has to begin to doubt that the evidence is there. I do not know Ray but I know people who do know him. Ray is getting up there in years so if he does care about the topic ... and I do think he does ... then I think he should at some point have a grand unveiling. If not ... well then that speaks for itself.

Decker
 
Thanks Don, I really appreciate the answer. That's the thing that bugs me about UFOs and the paranormal in general. There's no strong visual evidence - you would think in this day and age, we would catch something clear.
I mean look at what happened in Russia with the meteor. Something like that is quite rare, and it was caught by some many cameras at so many angles. No doubt about what happened there. The amount of people that claim to have seen UFOs, you would think we would have more footage.
 
Konrad Hartmann said:
Don,
Back in the 90s you wrote on "The Human Mutilation Factor(The Human Mutilation Factor)." You called on the UFO community to push for action regarding human mutes.
If you guys have time, here are a few questions:

1. Have your opinions on the topic changed since then? Has evidence for human mutilation diminished in the past 20 years?

2.Do you see the work of David Paulides as intersecting with this subject?

3. Do you view the UFO enigma as a phenomenon generally hostile (or at least harmful) to humans?

4. Are you aware of any disappearances or fatalities of pilots following UFO contact in the past two decades?

Thanks!
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Good morning Konrad. Okay, as to pushing the UFO community to action on mutes ... ha! First up when I publicly reported on mutes way back then ... I noticed a distinct lack of LOVE from the research community. I caught a lot of hate for it. For example, at a conference in Ct. Vicki and I were accosted by Whitley Strieber and his wife when they came out of a lecture and began screaming like lunatics at us. (I forget when this was ... like maybe 1991 or perhaps 1992.) That bothered people ... a lot. Most back then did not even want to discuss it either in public or behind closed doors.

The work Paulides is doing might cross over. I will be interviewing him again so ask me this after I have him on DMR.

My take on the UFO phenomena today is that it is mostly indifferent to us. I think the actual phenomena is simply working on what ever agenda it is following ... and unless we get in the way ... cares less. Once again my opinion ... yours may differ.

Missing pilots? Well, unless it concerns civilian pilots ... we won't know unless it hits the press. And good luck with that by the way. If it deals with the military ... forget it. We will never know.

Decker
 
Decker said:
Hey Cotton, it has been a long time since I've seen you post. Great question by the way.

In the last several years I have occasionally seen posts and remarks by Cooper supporters around the web. Up on the Above Top Secret site a number of folks have attached links on my Cooper show that I did several years ago and suggested these supporters listen to it along with links to my exposes I did on Cooper that ran in UFO Magazine. It is obvious that most of those guys refused to check the show or exposes out. You know how it goes ... "don't try to confuse me with facts, my mind is made up!" As far as I am concerned, the bottom line is actually pretty simple. If they believe ... then they will continue to believe. It doesn't matter at all what you show, tell them or offer to have them listen to. Even if it is Cooper himself. I pretty much quit trying. Hell, he has been dead since 2001. If those people don't know by now they never will. I think that is pretty much the end of the story.

Decker
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Bill Cooper Destroyed by Don Ecker, page 1
 
Decker said:
Good morning Konrad. Okay, as to pushing the UFO community to action on mutes ... ha! First up when I publicly reported on mutes way back then ... I noticed a distinct lack of LOVE from the research community. I caught a lot of hate for it. For example, at a conference in Ct. Vicki and I were accosted by Whitley Strieber and his wife when they came out of a lecture and began screaming like lunatics at us. (I forget when this was ... like maybe 1991 or perhaps 1992.) That bothered people ... a lot. Most back then did not even want to discuss it either in public or behind closed doors.


Decker
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Thanks for the response, Don! I just saw this. I'm imagining that discussing mutes was a violation of the view of the space-brotherhood-thing. Well, it's interesting that the UFO political landscape has apparently changed since then. It sounds like you were harshing their mellow. Why do you think things have changed so much? Or have they? I wasn't really following UFOs at all back then, but I seem to recall there being more of a New Age component to the scene. I feel like when you get people screaming at you like that, you probably hit a nerve and touched on some hidden fears. Well, it would be nice to view the phenomena as the actions of a benevolent fellow species. But I am always amused when people say things like, "If the aliens visited Earth and saw how violent we were, of course they would avoid contact!" It's amusing because it assumes an extraterrestrial origin, and also because it assumes that Earth is exceptionally violent without having another inhabited planet for comparison. It also assumes that alien (whatever they may be) morality would for some reason reflect human morality.
 
Decker,

I know Bill Cooper really gets you going.....Obviously you believe the man was as full of bull as is humanly possible. I read his book and an awful lot of what he says in his book has come true, I am mostly referring to the parts about big brother and where society is headed. Bill Cooper was also a staunch believer that there were things happening in our governments that were counter productive to the well being of the citizens. I think many of us would agree with that. As a conservative, don't you feel that our rights are being eroded over time. Don't you feel like government is entering areas in which it never was intended?

So on the surface it seems like you two agree on at least a few things. I disagree with his assumptions on the Kennedy assassination. I think he went south so to speak in a couple of areas , however, no more than so many others in the ufo arena.

So I guess I don't entirely understand the degree of animosity toward the man who I think had a few valid points and observations.I wasn't where you have been and I don't really know much about the inner workings concerning Bill. You must have seen things I am not aware of.

If he was was simply a hype meister willing to lie at the drop of a hat then I can understand your opinions of him, but didn't he also have some valid concerns?
 
Thanks Don for the info you posted here. It would seem to me that there is no question Bill Cooper was a typical alpha male which can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing. He wasn't shy about his opinions .

He seems to have gone off half cocked on a few of his ideas , although IMHO there was a grain of truth to a lot of what he said. He was a Naval intelligence officer and being such he had access to some secret material.

In looking at the historical significance of this man, I would say that he tipped a lot of people off to something that was going on that wasn't in our best interest and was instead in the interest of the global elite. I don't think he was intentionally trying to spread disinformation, but I think there was sometimes a lot of noise mixed in with the signal. If Bill Cooper were only out for Bill Cooper there were many things he did that were either career suicide or just plain bad for his health. So I don't see the man as someone who was intentionally out to make a buck any way he could.

If he is one of those guys you just love to hate, fair enough. I guess my question is, not unlike so many other people in the field of ufology today he had some theories that were off the wall. The same can be said for many of the personalities associated with the field now, but none of them seem to get this kind of seething hate that Bill receives. If someone is spreading lies isn't at least some of the responsibility to find the truth ours?

Are there global elitists involved in plans to recreate our world to their own liking and are they possibly linked up with non human entities? This is one of the core beliefs that Bill had and it is shared by many others. Looking at where the world is heading I think the argument for things moving toward a globalist agenda are hard to deny IMHO.

I'm not sure what to make of the mans death. He did have a short fuse and it could have gone down the way it has been reported or it could have been made to look like it.Will we ever really know?
 
starise said:
Thanks Don for the info you posted here. It would seem to me that there is no question Bill Cooper was a typical alpha male which can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing. He wasn't shy about his opinions .



He seems to have gone off half cocked on a few of his ideas , although IMHO there was a grain of truth to a lot of what he said. He was a Naval intelligence officer and being such he had access to some secret material.



I'm not sure what to make of the mans death. He did have a short fuse and it could have gone down the way it has been reported or it could have been made to look like it.Will we ever really know?
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Okay, it is obvious you neither read my expose nor listened to the show I put together. Cooper was not a Naval Intel. Officer. If he was anything at that time he was a Petty Officer (and for you non-military types this means he was a NCO. His job would have been emptying ashtrays, bringing in coffee and taking out the empties .... providing he did any of this at all.

I love it when people that may not have even been alive then tell me about Cooper. I knew the man, and I remember what a drunk, bully boy and disruptive influence he was. I remember his drunken fights at UFO conferences, I remember him having the police called to his home when he would get drunk and abuse his family. And ... I remember when he threatened a doctor on his property with a firearm ... terrified the man who then reported him to the police. Cooper had vowed ... and had it on his website that he would meet any police or federal officials with armed resistance. He ended up being killed by police when he shot a cop when they tried to arrest him. He was wanted not only for assault but there were warrants out for him for tax resistance, bank fraud and other charges.

Either do the research and truly find out what this guy was or take it somewhere else. You truly are ignorant about this guy to make the statements you made here.

Decker
 
Great posts on Cooper Don, it is truly amazing the lengths that people will go to in order to try and defend this obvious fraud and his "information".

Also please keep us updated on the upcoming Steven Greer show, the last show you did on him, the one with David Biedny, is probably one of my all time favorite DMR episodes, so I'm really looking forward to the one you have coming up.
 
Decker I did read a lot of what you posted on Bill Cooper, so I don't appreciate the false accusations here. There is so much out there on the man that sometimes it becomes difficult to know which source is correct on certain details. You are a lot like Bill Cooper. Anyone who might not agree 100% with your opinion gets shut down.As I understand it, Bill was ok until you disagreed with him ,then he was hell to live with.The "take it somewhere else" I can live with. If you want to drop me here I'll know that you can't and won't tolerate anything other than your view. I'm not going to water my opinions down because I might get booted. FWIW I am probably younger than you but I'm far from a school kid wet behind the ears and I was around when Bill was around.

I think we agree on almost everything about Bill.(believe it or not) I am not 100% certain about a few things though. If his records check out that he had a lesser job in the military then so be it, however it wouldn't be the first time that someone was stripped of their title because they took things into the wrong places.So how can I be certain that didn't happen here? Wussies don't join the Air Force and then Join the Navy after that.Wussies don't receive medals for heroism on the battle field. Bill lost a leg in combat.He himself claimed to be in Naval Intel. Incidentally, Bill held a few high level positions on the outside after he was honorably discharged. He was a completely competent thinking human being in spite of his numerous flaws.


My intent of this thread was to try and bring out something positive about the man. Did he have a temper? Yes. Did he get into heated arguments with people? Yes. Did he sometimes get his facts wrong? Yes.


I also consider him a patriot who wrote a book that had a lot of of truth to it. He went against the current trends,even if it made situations inconvenient and downright dangerous for him and his family.Apparently his life had been threatened a few times before the standoff at his home.

One thing you can say about Bill Cooper was he had big kahoonas. Who else would go after the IRS? Bill did that and he had a valid case against them.

The evidence surrounding his death holds a few questions for me. It was said that he ran from the car shooting at the police with a pistol and shot a police in the head. OK you were a cop..you know how hard it is to shoot a pistol accurately at someone behind you while running. He must have been one ace of a shot to hit this cop in the head...and he was missing a leg. This is almost an impossiblity. The cops came dressed in PLAIN CLOTHES. Meaning he might not have known who they were. Do you blame a man for defending himself if he didn't know who the aggressors were? The cop was shot in the head. That is usually either fatal or causes severe life long issues. the cop made a full recovery. All I'm saying is he wasn't all bad. He fought for freedom. Give the man a little credit.
 
After coming back a few days later and reading this it sounds kinda harsh. I apologize for the way this came across Don.

I do think that Cooper spread a lot of disinformation,especially about the Kennedy assassination. I was trying to find some common ground between Cooper and a few others and validate some of his work,which I feel was noteworthy. The comparison was uncalled for and I do apologize. I knew you both had a conservative bent, however drawing further conclusions was not right on my part.
 
Thanks to Chris for asking my Question and to Don for trying to answer. On the download Don's answer seemed to have been cut short by a break. I want to clarify here that the question wasn't meant as a judgment on my part, but as a question to a reporter and publisher on their view of the issue. The advertising for the Billy Meier stuff was mentioned by Don's arch critic Kal Korf and there was a picture of a major spread on the inside cover of the magazine. Someplace Kal also calls Don a liar.

Being called a liar is a pretty serious accusation and if it's untrue or exaggerated then I think Don should make a civil issue out of it. It's definitely harmed his reputation because now there's always this nagging thought in my brain ( and who knows how many other people's ) that Don might not always be telling us the truth, and when you see examples of others out there in the field who have been exposed, well let's just say that in ufology, reputation is everything. Personally, despite Kal's criticism, my experience here is that Don comes across as trustworthy in that he believes what he says and also offers some reasons beyond mere belief. Sure he can be wrong ( like any of us including me ), but I don't get the impression he's tried to create any deceptions. I also find that DMR is an excellent resource.

Returning to the question of ethics in advertising and where we should draw the lines between fact & fiction, I appreciated Don's point about the economic realities of print publishing. Personally, I don't think that accepting advertising for products that are of a contentious nature is a problem. I would draw the line at promotions of an inherently harmful and illegal nature. To use the Billy Meier case as an example, I would say that because it is a part of ufology history and contains elements of significance to understanding certain aspects of ufology culture, it is perfectly acceptable to make it available to those who want to purchase it. I have copies of it here in my own collection for reference. Does that mean I believe it and push it as true? Certainly not. So why shouldn't other researchers be able to get it from a resource in the field?

While accepting contentious advertising is OK, it is also perfectly acceptable ( and perhaps advisable ) to include a concurrent and objective article on the same topic that shines a light on the contentious aspects and exposes any evidence of a hoax. It would also be advisable to include some sort of disclaimer in the publication explaining that all advertising is provided for resource purposes and doesn't necessarily reflect the views of the magazine or the authors.

I also liked Don's comments about access in reporting. This is a worrisome trend. Similar to what happened with the live NASA space feed, apparently the FAA stopped responding to FOIA requests for radar data after the Stephenville Texas case because the radar data that was released showed that contrary to military denials, there was an object in the area that behaved like a UFO and other targets that behaved like military aircraft. Multiple eye witnesses had reported seeing a UFO. Plus there were reports of F-16s chasing it. The military is supposed to be working for the people and while some things should be kept secret, it seems that the "national security" excuse is being used too frequently, and this is a prime example. If civilian ground observers see USAF jets over them, they should have a right to know what they're doing up there within a reasonably short period of time.
 
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