Joseph P. Farrell

[wwkirk]

I'm generally not a fan of grand conspiracies, but I did find the interview engaging. Not that I buy the secret space program or the hypothesis of Nazi influence. I also have doubts about there being a parallel physics, especially as he is no scientist himself. But it was a good episode despite these misgivings.

 

[Astrocat]

I like the way Joseph prepared his argument for the "breakaway civilization hypothesis". His methods for his explanation are very intriguing. Its always good to have another theory to go off of when it comes to Unidentified Flying Objects.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Great show! Thanks for asking some of my questions, Farrell is someone I've wanted to ask a few things to for a long time.

Few people are as good as Joseph in delivery when speaking publicly. His answers always come out in a very logical order with neither too little or too much detail. He always has some sound reasoning behind his suppositions and he never claims 'the truth' and his mind remains open to possibilities that are contradictory or mutually exclusive of his own. To me that is the sign of a researcher at ease with his own material - he doesn't need to worry about being exposed as a fraud or hoaxer and his background is what he says it is.

Not only is Joseph a prolific author in the fullest sense but he is consistent in terms of quality. He is regularly pumping out books that other researchers would love to call their own - just the once while he does it repeatedly. Always an original slant too.

Anyone who knows anything about Joseph will also know that he has so much research, he can talk for hours and hours on a single topic and he always has stacks and stacks more unsaid. He just has to be brought back for subsequent interviews on different books/topics. Also I find he is a pretty accurate and honest person to give a soundbite appraisal of most esoteric topics.

Excellent show - enjoyed it immensely. How did everyone else find the show?

 

[Randall]

Very interesting show because of the way Farrell develops his ideas based entirely on odd ( but interesting ) circumstantial evidence, but in the end it still adds up to "Nazi UFO Mythos" ( a phrase of his own ), and I don't buy into it as a reality. Here are some points:

1. The UFO problem isn't something that can be solved by throwing a mountain of money at it, especially back in the 1950s.
2. If someone had figured out the technology back then, even if it was a secret, by now some other scientist or inventor in the public sector would have figured it out as well. After all we're into the 21st Century, far more advanced than Nazi Germany ever was, and it's not like scientists haven't been trying to figure anti-gravity technology out since then. So where is it? It should be all over the place. All we've got are flying wings, not UFOs.
3. Some UFOs have been reported to be as large as carriers. This presents challenges that are IMO impossible for a clandestine civilization to cover up for 50+ years. Consider the logistics:

• Acquisition of large amounts of raw materials.
• Refining of those raw materials.
• Design Fabrication of millions of parts
• Delivery of those parts
• Huge assembly facilities
• Huge production workforce
• Huge maintenance infrastructure
• Extremely sophisticated camouflage.
• Extremely sophisticated security measures and personnel to monitor and enforce secrecy.

For the above to be feasible would require an entire high tech civilization, yet here is absolutely no evidence of such an independent civilization, and given the complexity and number of people that would have to be involved, it is equally unreasonable to think that it's all been done under the table within our own civilization. We need a lot more evidence than unproven Nazi UFO myths and tenuous circumstantial evidence.

However, the flying wings were real. Northrop built the YB-49s. But they were still airplanes, and the earlier Horten brothers versions were much less advanced. So to believe the Hortens went off to Argentina and started building UFOs is a stretch. What is known is that as the war ended, Reimar Horten emigrated to Argentina where he continued designing and building gliders and models that never went into production. But even if they had, they were still primitive by today's standards. Walter remained in Germany after the war and became an officer in the post-war German Air Force. Reimar died on his ranch in Argentina in 1994. Walter died in Germany in 1998. So it seems pretty obvious that neither of these key figures in the mythos became part of a clandestine Nazi civilization that evolved to build UFOs.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Don't forget that Farrell isn't saying ALL UFOs are based on Nazi technology. He doesn't dispute the possibility that some are alien visitors, or due to other causes.

 

[Randall]

Don't forget that Farrell isn't saying ALL UFOs are based on Nazi technology. He doesn't dispute the possibility that some are alien visitors, or due to other causes.

Fair comment, and to say again, it was a very interesting show. Farrel's sound quality could have been better, but I guess not everyone is an audio wiz. Apart from that I think he presented his ideas very well using bits and pieces that had some basis in observable reality. Plus he was constructively skeptical and that added to his credibility as a researcher. I admit there were times when I really had to think about what he was saying, do some review of my own, and see if it remained coherent. I don't mean to sound self aggrandizing here, but any guest that can do that instead of being immediately transparent IMO deserves at least some credit, and I get the sense that anyone who looks into his views will not only as Chris put it, "have their eyes opened" to a whole other way of viewing not just UFOs, but also the geo-economic world order that fuels the war machine, particularly at the dawn of and during the Modern Era ( in ufology ). It's really quite fascinating even without invoking ufology. The first time I ran across some of the same type of material was in Bramley's book The Gods of Eden, and I think I felt much like Chris described he felt about Farrell's work. In a sense Farrell's work sounds like a major exposé on the shorter Chapter Bramley devoted to World War Two. Bramley would also make an excellent guest if he's still available.

 

[Astrocat]

I started listening to the paracast in October of 2011 and have since listened to the majority of the archived shows. In my personal opinion the UFO/Paranormal enigma could never be explained by one hypothesis. Joseph did say that all sighting could not be encompassed in his specific theory. Chris O'brien made a good point when he once talked about the Skinwalker Ranch being the single most important case investigators should focus on because, it contains so many elements that are paranormal. Their are so many variables to the equation that things like the E.T.H don't cover all the angles. I also like how Joseph in his book gives George Adamski some credit considering a lot of people believe him to be a hoaxer and a fake . Joseph gives him credit by saying " It is clear that while contemporary ufology has long ago foresworn any connection to or credence in Adamski's wild mythologies, it nonetheless remains true that the major themes of his mythology, many of which he enunciated for nearly the first time within ufology, have remained to take deep roots, to spread wide branches, not only within the field of ufology, but within the wider culture perception of UFOs that it influences. For these reasons alone, Adamski many not be so glibly dismissed as an embarassment to the subject."

 

[Snidely Whiplash]

This show was a lot of fun. I assume from the interview his degree was in philosophy.

 

[Randall]

I started listening to the paracast in October of 2011 and have since listened to the majority of the archived shows. In my personal opinion the UFO/Paranormal enigma could never be explained by one hypothesis ...

When you start lumping UFOs and the Paranormal together then I'd have to agree that single theories are not sufficient. However ufology is not a "paranormal" study, and therefore it shouldn't be lumped together with the paranormal except in very specific circumstances for which we can theorize with some level of plausibility that science can provide answers that link UFOs with paranormal phenomena.

Encarta Dictionary:
par·a·nor·mal [ pèrrə náwrm’l ] adjective
impossible to explain scientifically: unable to be explained or understood in terms of scientific knowledge

The ETH may not apply to all aspects of the paranormal, however when it comes to UFOs, there is nothing scientifically implausible about interstellar travel or life elsewhere in the universe. Also, even if we don't know all the details yet, most ufologists believe that given sufficient scientific knowledge, UFOs could be fully explained in scientific terms. In contrast, the paranormal is composed of mystical, psychic, occult or supernatural phenomena. Such things are by their very nature beyond scientific understanding. Granted, there are some areas where the two fields intersect, however in those cases we once again find that a scientific explanation is generally believed to be possible if we only had sufficient information. So the bottom line with respect to ufology and the paranormal is that even though there may be some overlap, they are still two distinctly different concepts.

 

[mike]

Well said

 

[Goggs Mackay]

This show was a lot of fun. I assume from the interview his degree was in philosophy.

Joseph has a degree in 'Patristics' - something I'd never heard of until I'd heard of Joseph. I don't know the exact definition but I believe it is something to do with old texts and manuscripts relating to religion etc. This is where he gets his knowledge and expertise of ancient texts. I think he may have a basic understanding of a few old languages as I would imagine that a pre-requisite to study these documents.

Certainly a well-educated chap and that's why he always has at least something to use as evidence for his theories.

 

[Polterwurst]

Yeah, well, but learned and well-founded speculation still is no more than speculation, no matter how well researched its base factors are. I have to admit that as a german I don't want these speculations to contain any truth at all. So I'm biased. I haven't listened to the whole podcast yet, but until now, I'm glad he calls the whole nazi UFO conspiracy trend a mythos and doesn't say that these murderous madmen with their idiotic theories were in cahoots with aliens or scavenged a crashed UFO.

What's sad, though, is that there is a lot of facts from that era that I never heard of until the internet and shows like this, because in my childhood and youth it was all hushed up and you couldn't even talk about it. The Thule society, for example, and Himmler's esoteric world-view, I only ever heard of the facts in an american documentary no more than a few years ago. Before that, only rumours (for example, I didn't know that there had actually been a guy looking into the holy grail story for the nazis, even though I had watched Indiana Jones). And it instantly made clear why esoterics in general are such a taboo here.

Yeah. Just don't talk about it. How's that for preventing these things from ever happening again...

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Same goes for much of the Nazi stuff for me Polter. I think most people, regardless of nationality, are unaware of much of the esoteric tendencies of the Nazis, thinking like yourself only of fiction and films such as Indiana...

Oh, and Polter - I hope you don't mind that I used you in a question for Joseph. If it had been a real name I would not have but since it was only an avatar name I thought it would be cool. In fact, I would no doubt have asked your permission or even asked you to ask the question but I literally stumbled across the post for questions an hour or two before the recording!

 

[Polterwurst]

I know how that goes. No problem, I don't hold a copyright on the nick. As for "the esoteric tendencies of the Nazis", I think that was really more like the esoteric tendencies of one guy - Heinrich Himmler - and a handful of his "followers".

 

[UFO CONFIDENTIAL]

Wow..what if Joseph Farrell's hypothesis on Roswell does turn out to be correct!

 

[Apocalypto]

I loved that show. Thanks Gene and Chris.

(Incidentally, this is the only radio show/podcast I've ever listened to where the hosts feel the need to apologize for their advertising. Who are these goofs who are dissing the show because of the ads? Geez, guys, if you don't like the advertising then don't listen to the show. Anyway, enough of that...)

Chris, I'm glad you guys talked a bit about the movie Apocalypto. That's my nickname on this forum (clearly). I've never spoken about it but I use that nickname partly in jest. The 2012 Mayan calendar topic has always fascinated me, and the nick comes across as compelling. I liked you commentary about the movie. I would review it pretty much the same way. Notwithstanding the historical inaccuracies, it was a good, entertaining movie. That's all. It's currently rated at 7.8/10 on imdb. That's an appropriate rating. I use the nick because I like the dramatic reference to what is about to happen (or not) in late 2012. Gene, you should grab some popcorn and watch that movie. It's fun.

In re to the show, I've never put much credence in the whole Nazi UFO thing, but Mr. Farrell certainly has me rethinking the issue now. I've always had a ton of respect for German engineering and I wouldn't put it past the Germans to have come up with technologies that would surprise us if we knew the details of their existence.

I also respect Mr. Farrell for admitting that he speculates. He's confident enough in his research to admit it, yet he still comes across as an expert. He researches, follows the trails to see where they go, then offers an intelligent opinion. Even the Roswell topic was interesting again. David Biedny once commented that he felt certain people's opinions had more merit than others. This applies in Mr. Farrell's case.

I thoroughly enjoyed the CIA / Nazi / Truman connections. Crazy, crazy stuff.

One other thing, what the heck was all that noise mid-way through the show? Sounded liked someone was cleaning up a table, making a sandwich and squishing some plastic bags on a table? lol.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Yes - no-one can deny how advanced Germany was then and now. It was producing the best of the worlds theoretical physicists for a while. So many German scientists have pushed the boundaries of knowledge in new directions. Of course it's ironic that Germany lost many of it's best scientists cos of them being Jewish. They either got out in time or often, suffered in the final solution.
You have to wonder that if the Nazis were not anti-semites, and all the Jewish scientists stayed and worked loyally under Hitler - I wonder if Germany might not have got the A-bomb first?

An indication of the Calibre of German minds, is that the USA was willing to overlook terrible war-crimes to grab and use many scientists in Operation Paperclip. Without Paperclip, I wonder at what rate the space race would have played out for America without the headstart of the Germans' work (which was based on Goddard - an American).

 

[bbridges]

Yes - no-one can deny how advanced Germany was then and now. It was producing the best of the worlds theoretical physicists for a while. So many German scientists have pushed the boundaries of knowledge in new directions. Of course it's ironic that Germany lost many of it's best scientists cos of them being Jewish. They either got out in time or often, suffered in the final solution.
You have to wonder that if the Nazis were not anti-semites, and all the Jewish scientists stayed and worked loyally under Hitler - I wonder if Germany might not have got the A-bomb first?

An indication of the Calibre of German minds, is that the USA was willing to overlook terrible war-crimes to grab and use many scientists in Operation Paperclip. Without Paperclip, I wonder at what rate the space race would have played out for America without the headstart of the Germans' work (which was based on Goddard - an American).

I have read two of JF's books, but I haven't listened to the show yet, but Did William Lyne come up? Or Harbinson? Henry Stevens? Marconi's Secret City ? These are all sources for theories about earth-based ufo technology.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Also have read JF's Books and find them good reading. Also think Arnold saw NAZI Bootie brought back to US of some experimental craft not some so called ET crafts? The firm saw a outlet for propaganda movement of Spaceman. He theories on the banking sectors is interesting research in that area is needed and agree no one has all the answers. Also speculative theories are in all fields of study what did some physics say on public radio last week humanity only knows about 1% of what makes up the universe the other 99% in unknown. Also outstanding show Gene & Chris and JF for his professional manner.

 

[Randall]

Yes - no-one can deny how advanced Germany was then and now. It was producing the best of the worlds theoretical physicists for a while ...

Sure. There's no doubt that German engineering has high standards. But in the 1940s, it doesn't matter how high the standards were, everything was significantly less advanced than the 1970s, let alone by where we are now, several decades later in the 21st Century.

If we want to go back in history we could probably develop a similar Viking mythology. After all they discovered America long before Columbus, and their ships were highly advanced for the day. Perhaps they sailed off and started a secret Viking society that developed high technology long before Germany. Add in all the Norse God mythology, the folklore about polar entrances to secret civilizations, the blond Nordic ufonauts and presto ... we have the Viking/UFO Mythos!