Whitley Strieber's next book

[mike]

Yes but gangsters didnt come up (as far as i know) during the lie detector tests, so to say your theory is as relevant as the claim isnt true.
I could throw in he was abducted by the invisable pink unicorn that rules the universe too
Doesnt make the scenario plausible imo

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Yes but gangsters didnt come up (as far as i know) during the lie detector tests, so to say your theory is as relevant as the claim isnt true.
I could throw in he was abducted by the invisable pink unicorn that rules the universe too
Doesnt make the scenario plausible imo

As I said. It's just a hypothetical idea. I'm not trying to change what people think of the case. So gangsters did not take him. Maybe someone else did.
I know for a fact that the pink unicorn did not have anything to do with it though. It was his bowling night.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

When one of the possible solutions is visitors from another planet taking someone, I would say that no explanation is too far fetched. I don't see how Walton being taken by a group he owed money to or whatever is in any way more outlandish than aliens kidnapping him. I'm not saying that's what happened, but either is just as plausible as the other. In fact, I'd say with 100% certainty that gangsters of one type or another exist and abduct people, and there's proof that they do. We have no proof that aliens are taking people. To clarify, I am not trying to attack Walton's character in any way, all I am saying is that he could have been taken by a gang of HUMANS that he owed money to. It's a hypothetical statement - I have no proof, and I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility. If I'm called closed minded for throwing out the alien abduction theory, then I can call you close minded for throwing that theory out.

Seriously folks, I'm just throwing ideas out there. I am in no way trying to debunk the Walton case. I've said it before, but I doubt we'll ever know what happened. Who knows, Walton could have created an explanation in his mind that he thinks is true to cover a traumatic abduction by thugs - a psychological coping mechanism. He and his brother had an interest in UFOs (I know that from reading Clark's entry on the case in his encyclopedia), so his mind may have created this scenario to cope with it. Just a thought - not a fact, so don't jump down my throat for saying it.

The trouble is, Angelo, that the "owed money" scenario had been researched and dismissed many years ago. Doing the modicum of research would have shown that. As it would many other of the flimsy scenarios often bandied about. That's the problem. When people continue to parrot the same tired old rhetoric it begins to frustrate the experiencers. I imagine continuously having to explain away these theories would raise the ire of those who have experienced something truly anomalous.

 

[Wickerman1972]

I don't even consider Travis Walton to be "the best" abduction case out there. I'll put it in a top 10 or maybe even a top 5. To me the 3 most convincing cases I know of are Allagash, Kelly Cahill, and the Hills.

 

[mike]

I find the kelly Cahill case compelling, though im frustrated by the fact she sees the experience through her religious filters, It makes me wonder how many people might have a similar experiance and deal with it in that context, never seeking help from the UFO research field

 

[The Pair of Cats]

I don't even consider Travis Walton to be "the best" abduction case out there. I'll put it in a top 10 or maybe even a top 5. To me the 3 most convincing cases I know of are Allagash, Kelly Cahill, and the Hills.

It doesn't matter what you think of any of them. All of the cases described have garnered ridiculous and unfounded criticisms at times. Most of it has been successfully dealt with.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

The trouble is, Angelo, that the "owed money" scenario had been researched and dismissed many years ago. Doing the modicum of research would have shown that. As it would many other of the flimsy scenarios often bandied about. That's the problem. When people continue to parrot the same tired old rhetoric it begins to frustrate the experiencers. I imagine continuously having to explain away these theories would raise the ire of those who have experienced something truly anomalous.

As I said, I never pretended to say that it was correct - I'll say it again, it was hypothetical. All I am saying, once you start saying that ET abducted him, well, anything is possible. We can't prove that aliens abducted him, no one can. Unfortunately, I need more than that to change the way I understand the world around me. That's why if he said he was taken by thugs and beat up, I would have no problem taking his word for him - that's been proven to happen from time to time, along with physical evidence. Spaceships and aliens however, no proof for that at all, at least none that is conclusive.

Anyway, we're just going around in circles, as usual. You can go on thinking that he was abducted by aliens, and I'll go on not caring about it since it isn't something that I'm worried about.

 

[Wickerman1972]

I find the kelly Cahill case compelling, though im frustrated by the fact she sees the experience through her religious filters, It makes me wonder how many people might have a similar experiance and deal with it in that context, never seeking help from the UFO research field

I can't recall any of them responding to the Cahill account (I don't think most of them are aware of her) and mostly just half-assed swipes at Allagash like they aren't really concerned about it. But they have gone after the Hill case in a big way (Unconvincingly, I might add. Maybe they weren't spacenapped but it didn't happen the way the debunkers say either).

 

[mike]

I can't recall any of them responding to the Cahill account (I don't think most of them are aware of her) and mostly just half-assed swipes at Allagash like they aren't really concerned about it. But they have gone after the Hill case in a big way (Unconvincingly, I might add. Maybe they weren't spacenapped but it didn't happen the way the debunkers say either).

http://www.theozfiles.com/kelly_cahill.html

 

[Wickerman1972]

http://www.theozfiles.com/kelly_cahill.html

Yeah? That's by Bill Chalker. He certainly isn't debunking the case. I was talking about skeptics/debunkers/scoffers talking about it.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

As I said, I never pretended to say that it was correct - I'll say it again, it was hypothetical. All I am saying, once you start saying that ET abducted him, well, anything is possible. We can't prove that aliens abducted him, no one can. Unfortunately, I need more than that to change the way I understand the world around me. That's why if he said he was taken by thugs and beat up, I would have no problem taking his word for him - that's been proven to happen from time to time, along with physical evidence. Spaceships and aliens however, no proof for that at all, at least none that is conclusive.

Anyway, we're just going around in circles, as usual. You can go on thinking that he was abducted by aliens, and I'll go on not caring about it since it isn't something that I'm worried about.

Yet you don't hesitate to chime in lol
My intention here was not to criticise your way of thinking, necessarily, (although that is probably a given lol). My point was that people like Archie may, at times, become frustrated with having to endure the same old stuff trotted out at monotonous regularity hence maybe a shift in his tone. Although it is hard to determine a poster's tone from a one dimensional medium such as a forum.

 

[mike]

Ive met Bill, hes certainly passionate about the genre

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Although it is hard to determine a poster's tone from a one dimensional medium such as a forum.

Totally true Phil. As I have said many time, if we were discussing this stuff over a beer or coffee, it would be quite different. We would still disagree, but I don't think we would annoy each other as we have in the past. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we annoy each other as much now that we've come to understand that this is a forum. It also helps that I like you despite the fact that I we disagree on say 90% of the topics discussed here.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Vive la difference!!!

 

[trainedobserver]

Totally true Phil. As I have said many time, if we were discussing this stuff over a beer or coffee, it would be quite different.

 

[Hotkafka]

I just find that incredibly hard to believe. It doesn't make sense to me. Supposedly advanced civilizations and cultures incapable of interfacing with their lesser equipped cousins in a clear an understandable manner?

But that's just the point. The paradigm we're operating from potentially restricts the scope of the interaction. Perhaps. Consider a limitless number of possibilities for an interface -I'd suggest that any scenario would invoke a predictable, compensatory human rationalization -one that would probably miss the intended point of the interface entirely. The human paradigm is a reflection of its filters.

 

[ArchieBedford]

---------- Post added at 06:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 AM ----------

You don't have to agree with me, but you also don't need to try and make me out to be "the bad guy" in this discussion. I'm entitled to my opinion as well, having read a lot about the cases and having experienced certain things (like sleep paralysis) that can account for the vast majority of "alien abductions."

Sorry if it comes across that way, Angelo. Though like Phil, don't agree with everything you believe and post here I find you articulate, reasoned and respectful and have said this before. I'll moderate the tone in future, and thanks for the patience and time explaining your position.

---------- Post added at 06:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 AM ----------

I could throw in he was abducted by the invisable pink unicorn that rules the universe too

So you know about the invisible pink unicorn that rules the universe!

---------- Post added at 06:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 AM ----------

I find the kelly Cahill case compelling, though im frustrated by the fact she sees the experience through her religious filters, It makes me wonder how many people might have a similar experiance and deal with it in that context, never seeking help from the UFO research field

Betty Andreasson of course both interpreted her experiences through her prism of Christian religious fundamentalism, AND sought help from the UFO research community to better understand them.

 

[mike]

Mr Streiber has a book coming called Whats to come- the solution to the communion enigma, non fiction. due jan 2012

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 AM ----------

But that's just the point. The paradigm we're operating from potentially restricts the scope of the interaction. Perhaps. Consider a limitless number of possibilities for an interface -I'd suggest that any scenario would invoke a predictable, compensatory human rationalization -one that would probably miss the intended point of the interface entirely. The human paradigm is a reflection of its filters.

As i posted in another thread, Our experience is one of mental privacy, one can choose to share ones thoughts with the written or spoken word.
But we are working on a WiFi add on

U.S. Army has just awarded a $4 million contract to begin developing "thought helmets" that would harness silent brain waves for secure communication among troops. Ultimately, the Army hopes the project will "lead to direct mental control of military systems by thought alone."
If this sounds insane, it would have been as recently as a few years ago. But improvements in computing power and a better understanding of how the brain works have scientists busy hunting for the distinctive neural fingerprints that flash through a brain when a person is talking to himself. The Army's initial goal is to capture those brain waves with incredibly sophisticated software that then translates the waves into audible radio messages for other troops in the field. "It'd be radio without a microphone, "


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1841108,00.html#ixzz1EYB9VkwE​

A species that has mastered this technology may well have discarded such crude and ambigious methods like writting and speaking in favour of direct mental transfer.
Both technologically and more importantly socially we are not ready to communicate at this level.
Most people would be very uncomfortable with the idea of someone or something being able to packet sniff their thoughts.
Its a major evolutionary leap, most especially socially.
Just as chimps and dolphins lack the biological components to speak to us, so to do we lack the gear to communicate at this level.
even given the technological ability, for hundreds of thousands of years we have experienced privacy of thought and hard wired communication, this is a major leap for us to come to grips with.

 

[boomerang]

The Travis Walton case is a perfect candidate for a kind of Martin Cannon "saw too much" scenario.
A group of average working guys stumble across something very black and very out of place in the pine forests around Snowflake. All but Travis respond to aversive stimuli and run. He presses on until what he has seen takes a few days to remove and a screen memory put in place.

The theory is not new. Walton's case would seem an especially good fit for it.

 

[ArchieBedford]

A species that has mastered this technology may well have discarded such crude and ambigious methods like writting and speaking in favour of direct mental transfer. Both technologically and more importantly socially we are not ready to communicate at this level.

You're not kidding. It would be a revolution. Imagine the implications for people planning crime and disorder. Imagine people's 'inappropriate' thoughts open to outside access. We'd need to have a completely different type of society.