January 18, 2015 — Greg Bishop

[LatentCauses]

This is a trivial point, .

Nothing trivial about that... I'd call that primal, and I sincerely hope not to experience myself.

I like your analogy with animal responses.

Always been struck by the accounts of what sasquatch encounters do to guard dogs - sends them burrowing and cowering in fear under the closest structure to the point where they need to physically extracted. I read about it over and over again in these areas

 

[Burnt State]

Primal fear, dread and grief -- all highly potent and intense human emotions. All often connected to paranormal 'contact' cases. Is that our own primal sensory system reacting to something actually 'alien' to us?

But then experiencing primal fear is just as easily induced by just being convinced that what you are seeing is something alien, or not right, like reality's suddenly broken. Then the heart rate slows when you finally see what mundane object it really is.

But for those who are convinced that there was actual contact PTSD seems to be married to that experience.

 

[Constance]

I like your analogy with animal responses.
Always been struck by the accounts of what sasquatch encounters do to guard dogs - sends them burrowing and cowering in fear under the closest structure to the point where they need to physically extracted. I read about it over and over again in these areas

I couldn't agree more. Animal responses to ufos, landing traces, crop circles, and the apparent presence of spirits or surviving consciousnesses are imo the best corroborative evidence of the reality -- the actual presence in our local reality -- of various phenomena we are able to see and some that we are not able to see, especially significant in the latter cases. These responses include extreme fear, flight from the scene, hiding, and avoidance behaviors. UFO sightings accounts are filled with references to such behaviors by dogs, cattle, and other farm animals in the vicinity of ufos; wild animals avoid cattle mutes; horses, sheep, dogs, and flocks of birds avoid many but not all crop circles. Flocks of both sheep and birds have often been observed to separate and circle around them.

My cat, like many other cats and also dogs, demonstrates immediate alert responses to evidently suddenly appearing presences she senses in our house, tracking movements and sounds I cannot see or hear for significant periods of time. {There might be several presences or a bilocated individual presence: she follows evident movements in the air with her eyes while her ears both move in tandem sideways or backwards in other directions in an apparent attempt to follow sounds she can hear.} I know who is primarily responsible for these visitations. She plays with the cat (her cat), evidently touching her front paws (which the cat then repeatedly licks). Whatever the cat is seeing and hearing also pauses and moves from place to place just in front of the cat, who I've watched on a number of occasions attempting to touch or catch whatever it is she's observing in these playful movements. There have been dozens and dozens of these events over the past seven years, usually lasting from 15 minutes to a half hour. The cat is less 'alarmed' by these events than she was years ago, but she still fluffs up her fur, switches her tail around, and is riveted by the appearance, movements, and sound(s) she assiduously follows. In the first two years of this she would emit a low growl and become quite reactive to my attempt to touch her and calm her down, but it's a long time since she's become that upset.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Primal fear, dread and grief -- all highly potent and intense human emotions. All often connected to paranormal 'contact' cases. Is that our own primal sensory system reacting to something actually 'alien' to us?

UFO sightings accounts are filled with references to such behaviors by dogs, cattle, and other farm animals in the vicinity of ufos; wild animals avoid cattle mutes; horses, sheep, dogs, and flocks of birds avoid many but not all crop circles. Flocks of both sheep and birds have often been observed to separate and circle around them.

Potential Predators "from above" will spook animals/pets to scatter below. Hot air balloons flying low and silent will startle and spook animals below.

Flocks of birds avoid unusual ground cover that is not natural or has changed to their normal surroundings. Birds that have predators will be especially cautious. Animals [I assume birds too] can/do AVOID slight changes in the environment that has changed where they normally traveled before. Scent changes also cause avoidance. Any animal that has predators or a "guard dog" sense [group protection] usually is very sensitive to such changes.

 

[Constance]

Potential Predators "from above" will spook animals/pets to scatter below. Hot air balloons flying low and silent will startle and spook animals below.

Flocks of birds avoid unusual ground cover that is not natural or has changed to their normal surroundings. Birds that have predators will be especially cautious. Animals [I assume birds too] can/do AVOID slight changes in the environment that has changed where they normally traveled before. Scent changes also cause avoidance. Any animal that has predators or a "guard dog" sense [group protection] usually is very sensitive to such changes.

A typical list of prosaic explanations. Just what I would have expected.

 

[DissectionStalker]

A typical list of prosaic explanations. Just what I would have expected.

Well, I should add that unexplainable causes manifest that Humans, animals, and pets seem to detect "on another level" beyond usual sensations that can totally freak one out too. That does not necessarily mean there is still not some "natural cause" in the environment that triggers the reaction.

Once the fear factor is initiated... "anything" is possible.

Last night I heard a pop in the air right behind my head. First time that's ever happened without any reasonable cause or explanation. Many years ago that might have totally freaked me out, when I had some irrational fears and freaky experiences with sleep paralysis.

I do NOT discount or disbelieve what experiences anyone may have had, as long as I don't believe they're being deceptive for some reasons.

 

[spacebrother]

Well, I should add that unexplainable causes manifest that Humans, animals, and pets seem to detect "on another level" beyond usual sensations that can totally freak one out too. That does not necessarily mean there is still not some "natural cause" in the environment that triggers the reaction.

Once the fear factor is initiated... "anything" is possible.

Last night I heard a pop in the air right behind my head. First time that's ever happened without any reasonable cause or explanation. Many years ago that might have totally freaked me out, when I had some irrational fears and freaky experiences with sleep paralysis.

I do NOT discount or disbelieve what experiences anyone may have had, as long as I don't believe they're being deceptive for some reasons.

...or are asking for followers or money.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

So if you could overcome that instinctual paranormal fear what do you think communion with that alien intelligence would be like - all wild chaos or that usual subdued meme of people claiming not to have any emotion as the greys are guiding them to the ship and they're all drugged and robotic?

Can you say anything different about alien contacts that are calm vs. those that are as terrifying as Pascagoula?

In my past when I had such encounters, I would initially go through terror. Then an immense illogical calm would engulf me. My observer mind would realize that this reaction was not logical considering the circumstances. I therefore assumed it was imposed upon me from outside. I don't know if human nature under intense terror might reach a point where it would either faint (to escape the situation) or "medicate" itself perhaps with a massive infusion of serotonin. I just don't know. I always went through a stage of horror followed by complete calm, even to the point of becoming quite sociable, trying to chat with the entities (usually to no avail). I do recall one vivid encounter with my mom in our car on a country road. My mom became hysterical, and ran back down the road. I found 2 humanoid tan beings at the car. Each took a hand and we seemed to fly off towards a huge grey disk floating over the field. I glanced up and said "Can I please remember this time?" The humanoid looked down at me and said "You can remember up to NOW". At that point, the memory stops. But at least I got a reaction.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Primal fear, dread and grief -- all highly potent and intense human emotions. All often connected to paranormal 'contact' cases. Is that our own primal sensory system reacting to something actually 'alien' to us?

But then experiencing primal fear is just as easily induced by just being convinced that what you are seeing is something alien, or not right, like reality's suddenly broken. Then the heart rate slows when you finally see what mundane object it really is.

But for those who are convinced that there was actual contact PTSD seems to be married to that experience.

Here is where I need to clarify something,. In my case, the primal fear often arose BEFORE the conscious mind had any perception of anything unusual. It seems like the body itself or perhaps a different part of the brain picked up on the paranormal long before my conscious mind. My conscious mind was always the last guest to arrive at the party.

 

[Wade]

Here is where I need to clarify something,. In my case, the primal fear often arose BEFORE the conscious mind had any perception of anything unusual. It seems like the body itself or perhaps a different part of the brain picked up on the paranormal long before my conscious mind. My conscious mind was always the last guest to arrive at the party.

I know it's not the same thing but up to about 5 years ago I suffered from very frequent hynopompic "attacks" and subsequent sleep paralysis. I still get the attacks but far less often and nowhere near as scary. What i always thought strange was that i always knew what was coming because i felt the sense of primal fear (intruder in the room) before the paralysis part. To me it would seem logical that the fear factor would kick in after the sense of having your chest compressed or the onset of paralysis not before.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Great show like Mr Greg Bishop and his work but I do disagree with some of his conclusion regarding some of the actors within the field of research who are doing great work like Mack Maloney who last book was very good .

Mack Maloney (Author of Wingman)


The field is alive aGreat show enjoyed the guest and like many researchers who never encountered these objects have to rely on witness testimonies. The human abilty to remember a event is puzzel within itself unless a traumatic event of such fear of life threating leaves deep hidden scars for example talk to WW2 combat pilots who actualy seen action and the enemies eye prior to making a kill the detail they can tell you of the aircraft. The similar when those fighter pilots of Vietnam , Iraq or commercial pilots who acctually seen these massive triangles objects. Like the guest said getting any fighter pilot to admitt they have chased or escorted ? a craft of that type and certainly finished .nd well just not in your face. Instead quitely looking for answers which I agree dont fit one size fits all. The propergnder machine within the crazy field by some has been there since it started as late John Keel suggested in "Operation Trojan Horse" and not intrested in star focusing discloure crap which agree is a pipe dream. More focus on the connection to envorimental factors of this force which likes to appear in stormy conditions as some eye witness suggests and could the electrical storms be a factor in some cases? In addition. the aircraft contacts during these event by military and commercial over parts of our oceans like late Professor Sanderson work.

 

[darka1404]

Yes it was listen to it 5 time so far.


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[Burnt State]

Yes it was listen to it 5 time so far.

I've only spun through it two and a half times so far. What's your compulsion and which ideas are resonating for you?

 

[Burnt State]

In my past when I had such encounters, I would initially go through terror. Then an immense illogical calm would engulf me. My observer mind would realize that this reaction was not logical considering the circumstances. I therefore assumed it was imposed upon me from outside. I don't know if human nature under intense terror might reach a point where it would either faint (to escape the situation) or "medicate" itself perhaps with a massive infusion of serotonin. I just don't know. I always went through a stage of horror followed by complete calm, even to the point of becoming quite sociable, trying to chat with the entities (usually to no avail). I do recall one vivid encounter with my mom in our car on a country road. My mom became hysterical, and ran back down the road. I found 2 humanoid tan beings at the car. Each took a hand and we seemed to fly off towards a huge grey disk floating over the field. I glanced up and said "Can I please remember this time?" The humanoid looked down at me and said "You can remember up to NOW". At that point, the memory stops. But at least I got a reaction.

So, again, I can't help but engage as you've got some classic CE3 features: major fear, then the calmness, even some interaction with the Aliens, repetition and a memory chain to follow.

I would be very interested in hearing your response to these three and a half questions if you're open to it publcally or is it better to PM you?:

• John Mack says that the abduction experience is experientially real but not factual in reality - how would you position your experience along those lines? Is it factually true in reality and also experiential, or more experiential than factual?
• Do you feel in any way that the abduction experience has been beneficial to you in any way as a coping mechanism or a positive support either at that time or afterwards?
• Have you spoken with your mom about these experiences and what does she say about them? Did she have similar or other odd experiences when she was younger.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

So, again, I can't help but engage as you've got some classic CE3 features: major fear, then the calmness, even some interaction with the Aliens, repetition and a memory chain to follow.

I would be very interested in hearing your response to these three and a half questions if you're open to it publcally or is it better to PM you?:

• John Mack says that the abduction experience is experientially real but not factual in reality - how would you position your experience along those lines? Is it factually true in reality and also experiential, or more experiential than factual?
• Do you feel in any way that the abduction experience has been beneficial to you in any way as a coping mechanism or a positive support either at that time or afterwards?
• Have you spoken with your mom about these experiences and what does she say about them? Did she have similar or other odd experiences when she was younger.

Very succinct answers:
1. I would suggest my experiences were at times factual (I had a perforated ear drum, remember?). The country rode incident has always been in my memory. It was factual. But I also may have had experiences that were primarily mental. I recall one night where I dreamed I was floating in mid air in a room. My partner Wes was floating beside me. Beings were coming in the room. Then I woke up because I heard owls hooting on the roof. Wes also woke up. We had shared the same dream, but we were both in bed. So I can't categorize that.
2. NO! There has been NO benefit to me from these experiences. I hated them and still do. I want nothing to do with them.
3. My mother would become hysterical if I tried to discuss this topic. She was a very anxious person by nature, and quite irrational at times. Today she would be called bi-polar. She tried, but was not a very good mother. By the age of 10, my goal was to not upset her because it would create a melo drama that could last for days. My dad sort of abandoned me to her. He was never around. One night we 3 were in the car. It was very dark outside. A red light appeared and seemed to follow the car. I was just a kid, but thought it was probably a distant radio tower light or something mundane. But once again my mother became terrified and urged my dad to drive faster.

That's all folks.

 

[Constance]

It feels wrong to 'like' that post. You've been through so much stress and outrage; most people couldn't survive it all and come out with your capacity for clear and balanced thinking. More power and well being to you.

 

[DissectionStalker]

We had shared the same dream, but we were both in bed.

Did you share the same beliefs? Did sharing dreams happen before or after? Were discussions shared about dream floating or these beings before that incident?

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting.

 

[darka1404]

This is not abnormal for me I tend to grind new data. Makes it easer to incorporate it in whit old data. I try to get in 3 hours study daily. Drives my wife nuts!


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[darka1404]

It's 5:30 am an got 1 hour in on new study on Rapa Nui


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[Burnt State]

Very succinct answers:
1. I would suggest my experiences were at times factual (I had a perforated ear drum, remember?). The country rode incident has always been in my memory. It was factual. But I also may have had experiences that were primarily mental. I recall one night where I dreamed I was floating in mid air in a room. My partner Wes was floating beside me. Beings were coming in the room. Then I woke up because I heard owls hooting on the roof. Wes also woke up. We had shared the same dream, but we were both in bed. So I can't categorize that.
2. NO! There has been NO benefit to me from these experiences. I hated them and still do. I want nothing to do with them.
3. My mother would become hysterical if I tried to discuss this topic. She was a very anxious person by nature, and quite irrational at times. Today she would be called bi-polar. She tried, but was not a very good mother. By the age of 10, my goal was to not upset her because it would create a melo drama that could last for days. My dad sort of abandoned me to her. He was never around. One night we 3 were in the car. It was very dark outside. A red light appeared and seemed to follow the car. I was just a kid, but thought it was probably a distant radio tower light or something mundane. But once again my mother became terrified and urged my dad to drive faster.

That's all folks.

First of all, I want to double up on Constance's comments regarding what you have experienced as I do believe that the witness/experiencer like yourself needs to be approached with unique care and I don't think public forums like this can provide that. Here we already are disassociated and so it's easy to re-victimize a person who tells a series of stories as you have. You have the conviction and your own proofs that what happened, happened. That's probably the best starting point. You also have specific family history that is interwoven with the experiences and those also appear to be important starting points of investigation. So I'm also sorry that you had to live through these events that have dramatically affected yourself and family, as they obviously still bring difficult emotions to the surface. Thanks for sharing this, as anyone who claims "abductee" is always relegated to the outlier position and labelled "kook" or "pretender." I don't get the sense that you are either, but that you have memories of specific, fantastically terrifying events.

Where to go from here: my thoughts about abductions & contact continue to evolve as i engage in different stories. The ones that have any inkling of physical proofs are extremely complex as they appear on the surface to suggest the impossible: non human intelligences interacting with humans, and not just in their minds but in the real world.

I'm currently reading Abductions & Aliens: What's Really Going On? by Chris Rutkowski who is offering up some more developed perspectives for me given the frequency of his involvement with people who feel they have had direct contact with alien intelligence. His blanket statement for the text: Alien Abduction Syndrome is real; no two abductions are the same in terms of experience, the personal history of the individual or their aftermath. He also feels there is limited proof if any that can conclusively identify aliens as responsible for this syndrome. Consequently, he feels a lot more serious, collective scientific inquiry is needed, especially by clinicians who are caring for people. Have you ever sought out clinical care as a means to process the situation, family history etc. (that is if you could find someone whose mind is not already made up on what it is you have experienced)?

I do see how many episodes of those dealing with AAS have experienced somehing akin to a schizophrenic or delusional episode - this repeats in the literature i've scanned. That's the closest known human experience that is comparable. In some cases that's exactly what is happening, and in others - there is simply not enough info to confirm, guess, deny or say much of anything that is helpful to those suffering from this syndrome. I've had some participation with the schizophrenic experience through friends - it is horrifying, inexplicable and has profound effects on them and all who are connected to them personally. These breaks with reality, especially those that involve outside agents, voices, and what appears to be physical forms manipulating the individual in the realm of AAS are not things we have any adequate explanations for at all. I hope none of this has frustrated you in any way.