Why the Bible stated God/Creator is 1

[victimized]

As consciousness or human awareness is advised, we live/exist in the same moment that a Sun produces a photon as light...for light is light
Sun Photos -- National Geographic .

Sun Photos -- National Geographic Black body radiation is black or missing light having formed a hole from the projection or loss of light. The loss of the heat of light as radiating light then allows the cooling effect seen afterwards from the loss of the heated mass.

When the mind researches information, it knows that when a photon was created, no organic life existed.

Yet the earth as 1 body exists with 1 atmospheric body that exists with 1 nature and 1 human presence and 1 effect of the photon.

Everything is depicted to be 1 and equal, existing at the same 1 moment, for our mind is advised that everything we look at exists in the same moment.

For the purpose of the teaching of the 1 God review was a human occult review to never change anything, for we are in equal union, supported by the condition of 1. We can only exist in this status of review if our own spirit does in fact come from origin light, above all other light bodies in creation.

When 1 is altered in any condition then the human self becomes aware of its own self destruction.

We know by self evidence that when 1 nuclear dust was caused, cooled and became its own presence, no organic life of 1 existed.

We then invented a machine so that we could convert the 1 body of dust and then our own 1 body of organic life began to deteriorate along with the deterioration of the dust.

The 1 body of Earth changed, the 1 body of the atmosphere changed the 1 body of Nature changed and the 1 body of the human life changed.

This would then advise that the 1 body of the planetary union would also change in the same act of destruction.

The teachings of the One God was a human aware statement.....

"I the LORD do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.
5"Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the orphan, and those who turn aside the alien and do not fear Me," says the LORD of hosts. 6"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed. 7"From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you," says the LORD of hosts. "But you say, 'How shall we return?'…

The Teaching of Jacob (Ancient Greek: Διδασκαλία Ἰακώβου, Didaskalia Iakobou; Ethiopic Sargis d'Aberga), is a 7th-century Greek Christian anti-Jewish polemical tract set in Carthage in 634 but written in Palestine sometime between 634 and 640

itibetan.org/webpage.php?mkt=nalanda.txtIn 634AD HT wrote that there was 10,000 scholars and 6 monasteries. ... occurs when there were epidemic, natural disaster like volcanic eruptions or Tsunami.

When you review how the God literature was structured, it was done through astronomical effects, and also a reviewed angled calculation after life had been attacked by the occult practice of the anima review or Egyptian Book of the Dead practice for levitating stone nuclear.

JACOB, a review of the condition of lettered explanations as L and the O circle equates 12, or time by 4quarters.
The factors for the Word of God letters of the ALPHABETA condition or alphabet reviews.

4 quarters places L as a letter back to back to form the cross +

ABCD....before 0 = BC, and after 0 AD, as the One God calculation proving that occult science was destroying the equal balances for life continuance.

AC 0 B, a notification of the changes.

J the review of consciousness and Jesus Christ...the Heavenly spirit returning....and the death of Jesus Christ due to occult practice.

The reference of COB as an evaluated naming or value...the top of head, a ball, clay, lump of coal, a leader or to strike on the buttocks by punishment.
As the Roman soldiers repeatedly struck the victim's back with full force, the iron balls would cause deep contusions, and the leather thongs and sheep bones would cut into the skin and Subcutaneous tissues.7 Then, as the flogging continued, the lacerations would tear into the underlying skeletal muscles and produce quivering ribbons of bleeding flesh.2, 7, 25 Pain and blood loss generally set the stage for circulatory shock.12The extent of blood loss may well have determined how long the victim would survive on the cross.8

Scourging of Jesus

At the Praetorium, Jesus was severely whipped. (Although the severity of the scourging is not discussed in the four gospel accounts, it is implied in one of the epistles [1Peter 2:24]. A detailed word study of the ancient Greek text for this verse indicates that the scourging of Jesus was particularly harsh.33) It is not known whether the number of lashes was limited to 39, in accordance with Jewish law.5 The Roman soldiers, amused that this weakened man had claimed to be a king, began to mock him by placing a robe on his shoulders, a crown of thorns on his head, and a wooden staff as a scepter in his right hand.1 Next, they spat on Jesus and struck him on the head with the wooden staff.1 Moreover, when the soldiers tore the robe from Jesus' back, they probably reopened the scourging wounds
The Physical Death Of Jesus Christ, Study by The Mayo Clinic

If anyone would like to argue about being irradiated, having acute brain pain and prickling, to then have a night when it seemed like an evil presence cut open my back with a sword, and then in great agony wings opened behind me, is to only know it for yourself.

Human kinds' personal experience is not something to ignore or argue about, when the same sort of experiences have occurred before due to nuclear conversion and atmospheric changes.

If we question biblical literature and how it was advised, is to question how information is fed back from the atmospheric condition itself, which involves a huge interactive fed back body. Of course the information would seem strange, for in fact it is strange.

If you asked what the Nephilim story was recounting as a human review considering the UFO condition, I would suggest that it related to receiving black body radiation streams that the outer planets could no longer protect Earth from, after their own bodies, the Protectors of Planet Earth lost their own conditions......the releases of UFO bodies also.

Reheating of the ancient black body radiation streams caused by the removal of the Earth's accumulated atmospheric mass and converting it into nuclear fuel.
Jeremiah 18:3-4

Then I went down to the potter's house, and there he was, making something on the wheel. But the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make.


Isaiah 29:16
Verse Concepts
You turn things around! Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay, That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me"; Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?

Isaiah 41:25
Verse Concepts
"I have aroused one from the north, and he has come; From the rising of the sun he will call on My name; And he will come upon rulers as upon mortar, Even as the potter treads clay."

Isaiah 45:9
Verse Concepts
"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands'?

Unravelling the Mystery of the Mesopotamian Clay Balls

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/w...s-unearth-a-war-zone-5500-years-old.html?_r=0

The large round balls found in archaeological sites.......and huge holes in the body of Planet Earth.

The strange and unexplained phenomenon of raining stones -- Sott.net

As the Earth demonstrates the changing atmospheric condition activates a suck up effect, the atmosphere and underground body also demonstrates suck down.

The phenomena of gaining hidden treasure would demonstrate the condition of under ground changes.

Question: "Who was responsible for Christ's death? Who killed Jesus?"

Answer: The answer to this question has many facets. First, there is no doubt the religious leaders of Israel were responsible for Jesus’ death. Matthew 26:3-4 tells us that “the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, assembled together to the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas. And they consulted so that they might take Jesus by guile and kill Him.” The Jewish leaders demanded of the Romans that Jesus be put to death (Matthew 27:22-25). They couldn’t continue to allow Him to work signs and wonders because it threatened their position and place in the religious society they dominated (John 11:47-50), so “they plotted to put Him to death” (John 11:53).

The Romans were the ones who actually crucified Him (Matthew 27:27-37). Crucifixion was a Roman method of execution, authorized and carried out by the Romans under the authority of Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor who sentenced Jesus. Roman soldiers drove the nails into His hands and feet, Roman troops erected the cross and a Roman solider pierced His side (Matthew 27:27-35).

The people of Israel were also complicit in the death of Jesus. They were the ones who shouted, “Crucify Him! Crucify Him!” as He stood on trial before Pilate (Luke 23:21). They also cried for the thief Barabbas to be released instead of Jesus (Matthew 27:21). Peter confirmed this in Acts 2:22-23 when he told the men of Israel “you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified and put to death” Jesus of Nazareth. In fact the murder of Jesus was a conspiracy involving Rome, Herod, the Jewish leaders and the people of Israel, a diverse group of people who never worked together on anything before or since, but who came together this one time to plot and carry out the unthinkable – the murder of the son of God.

OCCULT SCIENCES....pyramid relay used by ancient communities to Stonehenge and Temples (layout plant as transmitter) using the ancient occult building technique to levitate stone in building practices. Temples exploded/attacked.

According to the Hebrew Bible, Solomon's Temple, also known as the First Temple, was the Holy Temple (Hebrew: בֵּית־הַמִּקְדָּשׁ‎‎: Bet HaMikdash) in ancient Jerusalem before its destruction by Nebuchadnezzar II after the Siege of Jerusalem of 587 BCE.

The Hebrew Bible states that the temple was constructed under Solomon, king of the United Kingdom of Israel and Judah and that during the Kingdom of Judah, the temple was dedicated to Yahweh, and is said to have housed the Ark of the Covenant. Josephus says that "the temple was burnt four hundred and seventy years, six months, and ten days after it was built," (Jew. Ant. 10.8.5), although rabbinic sources state that the First Temple stood for 410 years and, based on the 2nd-century work Seder Olam Rabbah, place construction in 832 BCE and destruction in 422 BCE, 165 years later than secular estimates.

Josephus: The Wars Of The Jews; History of the Destruction Of Jerusalem

The status was to review the data that confirmed that the use of the Temple/pyramid relay had blown up the Temples used by the Hebrew community and also the Roman community.


When you use occult information in the correct review that it belonged to, God by occult description is the stone of Earth. God therefore created the Heavenly body, by the gases that it had released from its body.

The son of God returning to the atmospheric Heavens, was therefore the ethereal gases that were constantly being replaced by Earth.

Removing the conditions for the gaseous atmosphere to remain a cold gas instead of the release of hot gas....BAR ABBAS was the reason why the Christ spirit was crucified and disappeared from out of the stone tomb of Earth's God body.

Barabbas or Jesus Barabbas (a Hellenization of the Aramaic bar abba בר אבא, literally "son of the father" or "Jesus, son of the Father" respectively) is a figure mentioned in the accounts of the Passion of Christ, in which he is an insurrectionary whom Pontius Pilate freed at the Passover feast in Jerusalem, instead of releasing Jesus.

The feast, the secret meaning to the Nuclear or Sun time 12.

F = the sixth letter given as a calculation to both Christ and Satan.
The feast, and the interaction of hot gas caused the beast...the alien/UFO condition as an attack on the natural spirit of animal Nature, and human life.

The cross + north south west....east.
The calculations AB

Wikipedia
The blood curse refers to a controversial New Testament passage from the Gospel of Matthew, which describes events taking place in Pilate's court before the crucifixion of Jesus and specifically the apparent willingness of the crowd to accept liability for Jesus' death.[1]

Matthew 27:24–25 reads:

When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. 'I am innocent of this man’s blood,' he said. 'It is your responsibility!' All the people answered, 'His blood is on us and on our children!' (Greek: Τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν)


The Alpha condition was destroyed and the B -east condition caused...a removal of the natural atmospheric spirit and a shift in the Earth's magnetic field that causes a huge influx of natural disasters.

BLOOD
FLOOD.

Noah's Ark therefore has a truthful review about the taking of the animal nature into the creation of the Ark.....for it simply implies that the atmospheric body that once belonged to animals was removed in the building of the Ark and the animal life attacked.

The 2 x 2 condition for building of the Ark, that hit Mt. Ararat and has left it burnt mark in the stone after it blew apart the Temple is real.

2 conditions are imposed upon life....1 is the placing of life beneath the flood of the Ark....nuclear sound changed in our atmosphere that attacks/kills life.....and the actual atmospheric release of water in large amounts trying to cool the body of Earth stone so that it does not expand and explode by hot gases.

Water inside of the Earth that fell into Earth when holes were bored into the Earth body assists to keep Earth's body in a state of equilibrium.
Expanding Earth theory (Growing Earth theory)

Occultism, is by its own evidence a human aware status of conscious self interacting and being affected by conditions that its own person does not own. This is why the speech depiction of the occult realization is very strange, for the values being reviewed do not belong to natural organic life.

As a human being who lived by the conditions of its own self taught values and reasons was affected unnaturally by the occult practice, the realization was not stated as scientific data, instead it was related through a speech determined self realization, why the occult characterizations were depicted in a human like review.

This is why arguing over the review has never concluded any real evidence relating to actual human historical life, but rather the characteristics involved the humans living at the time as fed back advice.

The only realization that a single human life has of the greater affects and changes to life is through a massed fed back advice, which would also relate to all of the humans living in the time of the occult attacks.

 

[William Strathmann]

You wrote above, victimized:

"If anyone would like to argue about being irradiated, having acute brain pain and prickling, to then have a night when it seemed like an evil presence cut open my back with a sword, and then in great agony wings opened behind me, is to only know it for yourself."

Did this happen to you?

Is that why you've chosen "victimized" for your handle?

If this did happen to you, could you say how long ago it was that it happened to you?

Have you ever sought some sort of aid or support to deal with this experience?

I regret to mention that your "Teaching of Jacob" theory has severe weaknesses.

First, the original name in Hebrew is יעקב and there is no A, C, O. Then too, the Hebrew letter י (yod) is not always strictly equivalent to J, and in modern speech Y would actually be closer.

Second, the Greek transliteration of the name that you list, Ἰακώβου, also lacks C, and the O is problematic. The name proper uses the Greek letter κ, (kappa) or K, and you haven't explained why the Latin C would be the equivalent. On top of that, the corresponding Hebrew consonant would be Q, not K or C. Then too, in a strict sense, two Greek letter ώ (omega), and ο (omicron), are transliterated with the modern O, and both Greek letters appear in the name. But you haven't clarified why the modern O acts as a one-size-fits-all substitute.

So your manipulations of J-A-C-O-B are not based on either the Hebrew or Greek names, and you haven't explained why the modern English spelling should be taken as the name's form for your revelation. So, there is nothing to convince anyone that you have some sort of insight based on the alphabet. My sincere regrets.

I would not like to overstate my observation, but you seem to me to be quite driven to continually post what seem to be messages of occult revelation. Could I ask, are you being impelled to post these messages?

Best wishes.

 

[victimized]

The aware status of the biblical information came from atmospheric feed back after a human male was irradiated. Proof of his irradiation belongs to the Shroud of Turin, kept for the very purpose of the occult proof.

The status of the atmosphere allowed the male writer of the biblical update his personal awareness, as the astronomical advisor against occult practice. He stated that the dust on Planet Earth was holy only due to the condition of the feedback awareness.

As nuclear dust is abundant on Earth and radiates, and is a support sound for natural life, he was made aware that the giant out of space particle was disintegrated and neutralized into natural dust. The abundance and natural condition of the nuclear dust was important to the continuance of life and the protection of life on Earth. Removal and change of the dust allows the metallic UFO out of space materialization into an attack by the particle. The cause of the occult and life/planet attack was the metallic manifestation of the out of space UFO as a larger nuclear orbital.

The out of space "giant" came from the ancient black body radiation blast that was caused by the destruction of the first and largest Sun in the Universe.

Through cooling streams the particle had migrated into a metal, cooled from its journey.

When the mass and coldness of the atmosphere remained in a natural amassing state it caused the particle to disintegrate when it came into contact with Earth's atmospheric gases due to the coldness of Earth's gases. The neutralized dust simply floats through the atmosphere to the ground.

The gases that came out of God Earth stone were much colder than the black body radiation, as a particle/gas emission from a very hot burning body. Earth's gases were much colder than the body of a Sun, as Earth is a planet.

This was why the David PHI story was written as an advice against the giant that attacked life on Earth, relating to older atmospheric records regarding the formation of the Nephilim, and how the out of space "giant" had changed the life of humanity on Planet Earth previously, aging humanity.

GENESIS 6 (F) and 4 (D)
Numbers 13:33
"There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."
Leviticus 11:22

'These of them you may eat: the locust in its kinds, and the devastating locust in its kinds, and the cricket in its kinds, and the grasshopper in its kinds.

1122 A.D.
During the time of Harsha, crops were swept away. Levi, the review of the act of levitation, causing leviticus. Tribe of LEVI - Exodus or the cause of leaving the LAW OF STONE.........3 Here is the story of the family line of Aaron and Moses. It belongs to the time when the Lord spoke to Moses at Mount Sinai.

Judges 6:5

For they would come up with their livestock and their tents, they would come in like locusts for number, both they and their camels were innumerable; and they came into the land to devastate it.

The review of the HOLY DUST stated in the text regards its true review as.......... PHI - list of ines, stating that the SINE was attacked by the giant which caused it alter into the INE meaning a change to the substance of stone.

SINE MEANING.....The ordinate of the endpoint of an arc of a unit circle centered at the origin of a Cartesian coordinate system, the arc being of length x and measured ...

17 Now the Philistines gathered their forces for war and assembled at Sokoh in Judah. They pitched camp at Ephes Dammim, between Sokoh and Azekah. 2 Saul and the Israelites assembled and camped in the Valley of Elah and drew up their battle line to meet the Philistines. 3 The Philistines occupied one hill and the Israelites another, with the valley between them.

4 A champion named Goliath, who was from Gath, came out of the Philistine camp. His height was six cubits and a span.a]">[a] 5 He had a bronze helmet on his head and wore a coat of scale armor of bronze weighing five thousand shekelsb]">[b]; 6 on his legs he wore bronze greaves, and a bronze javelin was slung on his back. 7 His spear shaft was like a weaver’s rod, and its iron point weighed six hundred shekels.c]">[c] His shield bearer went ahead of him.

8 Goliath stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel, “Why do you come out and line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and are you not the servants of Saul? Choose a man and have him come down to me. 9 If he is able to fight and kill me, we will become your subjects; but if I overcome him and kill him, you will become our subjects and serve us.” 10 Then the Philistine said, “This day I defy the armies of Israel! Give me a man and let us fight each other.” 11 On hearing the Philistine’s words, Saul and all the Israelites were dismayed and terrified.

12 Now David was the son of an Ephrathite named Jesse, who was from Bethlehem in Judah. Jesse had eight sons, and in Saul’s time he was very old. 13 Jesse’s three oldest sons had followed Saul to the war: The firstborn was Eliab; the second, Abinadab; and the third, Shammah. 14 David was the youngest. The three oldest followed Saul, 15 but David went back and forth from Saul to tend his father’s sheep at Bethlehem.

16 For forty days the Philistine came forward every morning and evening and took his stand.

As GOD is above and also below, the conditions of atmospheric/heavenly holiness related to the mass of HOLY DUST and the ability for the atmospheric gas/mass to keep Earth safe. David the PHI relationship came from above as the review that saved Earth from the giant.

Due to the fact that the Law of Moses, the Law of stone was broken and Mt. Sinai and 40 days was blackened on its face by a strike, as the Ark (eye) hit Ararat, the reviewed condition was notification to the occultists that the removal of the holiness of dust by altering Earth's nuclear light mass/sound was why Earth and natural life was being attacked.

The holiness of PHI as the Holy David/Christ review was real, and the evidence of the attack by the "out of space giant particle" was notified as a real condition.

 

[victimized]

You wrote above, victimized:

"If anyone would like to argue about being irradiated, having acute brain pain and prickling, to then have a night when it seemed like an evil presence cut open my back with a sword, and then in great agony wings opened behind me, is to only know it for yourself."​

Did this happen to you?

Is that why you've chosen "victimized" for your handle?

If this did happen to you, could you say how long ago it was that it happened to you?

Have you ever sought some sort of aid or support to deal with this experience?

I regret to mention that your "Teaching of Jacob" theory has severe weaknesses.

First, the original name in Hebrew is יעקב and there is no A, C, O. Then too, the Hebrew letter י (yod) is not always strictly equivalent to J, and in modern speech Y would actually be closer.

Second, the Greek transliteration of the name that you list, Ἰακώβου, also lacks C, and the O is problematic. The name proper uses the Greek letter κ, (kappa) or K, and you haven't explained why the Latin C would be the equivalent. On top of that, the corresponding Hebrew consonant would be Q, not K or C. Then too, in a strict sense, two Greek letter ώ (omega), and ο (omicron), are transliterated with the modern O, and both Greek letters appear in the name. But you haven't clarified why the modern O acts as a one-size-fits-all substitute.

So your manipulations of J-A-C-O-B are not based on either the Hebrew or Greek names, and you haven't explained why the modern English spelling should be taken as the name's form for your revelation. So, there is nothing to convince anyone that you have some sort of insight based on the alphabet. My sincere regrets.

I would not like to overstate my observation, but you seem to me to be quite driven to continually post what seem to be messages of occult revelation. Could I ask, are you being impelled to post these messages?

Best wishes.

Have I been affected by the atmospheric experiments....yes. Do I understand the concepts of spiritual attack....yes, having studied spiritual healing.

As the attacks on my person have been innumerable, the worst attack was when Obama was elected and the collider experiments applied.

Because I was aware that the Priests who deal with the paranormal attack are the same organization involved in the experiments, then who is going to assist me?

The biblical advice by LETTER observation relates to the review of old literature and its occult applications. Hence the WORD OF GOD was written in English as the English letter equated to a numerical value. The letter, an angle related to a review of the angel - sound and fall out.
Angel - Angle.

As historical evidence attests, there was a relationship of brotherhoods and orders for and against occult practice and it is obvious that the English version was written by a brotherhood that was against older Roman practice and its secrecy, for some of the Roman orders did migrate to England. Rome demonstrates to be a non supporter of the Hebrew Jehovah to Christ teachings until a realization occurred relating to the attacks on Roman buildings, and sink holes.

The biblical story of the Exodus, the leaving from the Law of Stone relates to minus 1 as a family of fusion review.

(I) or eye...yodh or hand of God was altered to a review of J....what was left after the loss of the Christ heavenly mass of spirit and the holiness of heavenly water. This review was due to the notification that the Heavenly body was holy for it protected Earth from the giant black metallic particle and David defeated the "eye" of the Giant, causing a loss to the Christ Heaven in the defeat.

O the circle the review of PHI (I), the changes to pi as a review.

1000 a value given to Christ
O the circle 12, time
M (13) in the middle of the circle calculation given a value of 1000
O a calculation began as a point value to equate the quarters of time x 3.
O the circle 12, time and a review of the nuclear of light or Sun Time and why the life on Earth was attacked.

JAC 0 B relates that AD was altered and so was BC as a minus 1 condition from a zero counting function, as a ground to atmospheric angle review and changes to the alphabeta condition, why the new holy language was formed and taught as new Revelations/advice or feed back.

The review was to prove to the occultist and his practices of stone levitation usage of the pyramid/temples that they had changed the fusion of stone, that the Heavenly body mass had been voided and a large portion of the Heavenly spirit destroyed in the act of crucifixion. The older teachings and incorrect teachings were Greek, Egyptian, Muslim mathematics.

+ the cross the condition of the review of the field or magnetic function on Earth.

You may believe my review weak, or that personally as a single human weak, yet my personal spiritual support demonstrates differently.

The reason to my review as a correlation of studies belongs to the love that I have always held for humanity and as I was personally attacked, am simply another human reporting what I was advised, by the condition of atmospheric feed back and past life records.

 

[Randall]

A History Of God

 

[William Strathmann]

A History Of God

For the sake of fairness, Murph, I listened to the fellow's arguments in the youtube vid. I can say that I've submitted a few theologically oriented papers for publication. Usually when someone wishes to discuss any complicated subject they bolster their position by citation of recognized authorities, even if they disagree on certain points. In the youtube, Murph, I did not hear the fellow mention a single authority. I only heard the "scholars say" mantra repeated, which then depends on the school of thought that the scholars he believes in are affiliated with. So what about other scholars who disagree with the position he holds. Are they chopped liver? Some of the conclusions the fellow reaches are debatable, IMHO. But I will say that even in the NT there are signs of entities that would fall under the terminology of "heavenly powers," and hence "gods," but that are ultimately inferior to the Supreme God. For example in Ephesians 6:12:

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."​

You can debate the details of Paul's good news proclamation, but this passage shows that he is convinced that there are "κοσμοκράτορας" cosmocrats that influence the world, and not for the betterment of humanity. They could be called "gods" but they are subordinate to the Supreme God.

 

[Randall]

For the sake of fairness, Murph, I listened to the fellow's arguments in the youtube vid. I can say that I've submitted a few theologically oriented papers for publication. Usually when someone wishes to discuss any complicated subject they bolster their position by citation of recognized authorities, even if they disagree on certain points. In the youtube, Murph, I did not hear the fellow mention a single authority. I only heard the "scholars say" mantra repeated, which then depends on the school of thought that the scholars he believes in are affiliated with. So what about other scholars who disagree with the position he holds. Are they chopped liver? Some of the conclusions the fellow reaches are debatable, IMHO. But I will say that even in the NT there are signs of entities that would fall under the terminology of "heavenly powers," and hence "gods," but that are ultimately inferior to the Supreme God.

Speaking of citations, I'm not sure most historians would agree that the Bible is an objective or scholarly or particularly trustworthy source, but as you point out, it does speak of more than one god.

For example in Ephesians 6:12: "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."

I absolutely love that quote . I think I'm going to borrow it ... lol.

You can debate the details of Paul's good news proclamation, but this passage shows that he is convinced that there are "κοσμοκράτορας" cosmocrats that influence the world, and not for the betterment of humanity. They could be called "gods" but they are subordinate to the Supreme God.

I'm actually having a rather intense discussion in private with another forum member about this stuff. It's private because the participant doesn't feel confident that an open discussion will be fair minded. I think that's a shame, but because it's been opened up here now, I think it's safe to say that we can discuss some of the same issues, and anyone who wants to participate can join in.

The decisive question for me is: On a personal level, apart from the obvious politics, why deify anyone or anything at all? Even if we suppose that there is some entity at the top of the Judeo Christian religious hierarchy above all the priests and deacons and bishops and archbishops and cardinals and popes and saints and angels and whatever else there might be, when you get to the top job of being King of the universe, I still have to ask myself, "What good reason is there for me to deify it?" and so far as I can tell from the mythology, even if I was prone to deifying things, the biblical God IMO just doesn't deserve the title and should have been impeached a long time ago.

 

[victimized]

The biblical God is the human male's own presence as a self review, his choices, his fed back information from the Heavenly body and his ego. God as a condition of science was simply a review of O a circle, how the circle rotates...G into a spiral forming O, the O splits into 2 halves D and D. Why D was given a value of 500 and 2 of D = 1000, the Christ value. PHI....was called David and as human kind were advised to give each other names for the purpose of family heritage, the giving of a name to the heritage of conversion...families in the Bible has the same condition.

When you are advised that you think your own male self, a Creator and you invent, then who do you really impose God is....your own person, without being God, for the feed back also advised that a human life is not God.

Therefore the conditions of occultism and science states that the male is wrong, was always wrong, his theories are wrong, his choices are wrong, his motivations are wrong, for he only ever was an equal on Earth to Nature...and natural, no change.

The male will argue that he is correct, only because information that he first sought for levitation of stone was real, and he built the pyramids and temples to levitate stone. Yet not once did he think about what he did not know....why stone levitated, the power that allowed stone to levitate, the cause and effects of using/applying levitation, he was only concerned in owning a great power that applied magical feats to the community.

He used this condition to aspire that he was all knowing, powerful and super intelligence, yet he was an equal to all other living humans, was procreated by the sexual act the same as everyone else....when he imposes that he should commit murder to his family for research....for the greater good, not once does he or did he consider to murder his own person. Therefore when you ask yourself how spiritual is this form of human mind exists as....it is not.

Now if you ask a spiritual experienced human life who has lived by the teachings of spiritual purpose, unity, equality and its family support, where does spirit come from, the answer is always the same. Spirit, the real spirit, not the atmospheric gaseous body came from origin light. Origin light has always remained as its origin and it simply caused a change to its own body. We cannot see origin light for burning light is much brighter due to heat. Yet all of the self experiences of interacting with manifested deceased relatives and animals....who do not have the power of manipulation unlike a human spirit has proven the origin light does exist.

The fact about God is that after a human male living a spiritual life in the natural community was attacked, his mind considered the information and he challenged the hierarchy who were applying occult techniques. His own information, never correct for science is not correct for science cannot fathom, understand the value of preceding masses and what they represent and never have. As they gained correct information for levitation it allowed their egotistical selves to believe that they know it all, when they cannot...their own organic presence already states this fact of value of its presence as an organic state compared to a burning sun.

Yet the fact that a male, who had no scientific or occult advice was advised of his attack by atmospheric feedback, which was why they used the Shroud of Turin as part of their evidence against occult practice. As the male brotherhood who took over natural life and began their dictatorship belong to the self review of their own karmic condition, they now have to face the circumstance of what their inventions and attacks on the natural fusion has been causing.

Our ancient brother already knew that Planet Earth was being disintegrated, for the feed back advice told him so. This was why the story of David was written as an advice to state that the manifesting artificial metallic out of space particle UFO had been attacking life, and if not for the atmospheric body interaction, all life would have been incinerated, just like the feed back advised happened millions of years ago as the Nephilim advice. Therefore he advised his occult brother that the condition of David was holy and therefore do not change it nor interfere with it for it was keeping Earth life safe from the ancient attack of black body radiation particles (giants).

As advice has to be recorded for the values to interact in the changing atmospheric body, was the only reason why a non scientific aware status provides the evidence that our occult brother first accessed knowledge for conversion because of past life records. Human kind gaining stigmata have been giving the same advice for a very long time relating to PHI prophecy, just as the occult practices for irradiating life has continued its deceit.

 

[victimized]

It is only due to self experience that human life has ever understood the concepts of our spiritual truth, and the experience is a world wide witness, no matter what culture or belief.

The ancient Roman Pope who was irradiated by a meteor heard the Satanic spirit, just as I have (an Australian), after the meteor fell to Earth due to the heating of the ancient black body radiation pathways. The heating of these pathways was caused by an atmospheric loss of its mass due to ancient occult converting techniques.

If you want to query what the Satanic spirit is, having been irradiated myself and heard the feed back, I now know that all life is recorded by voice/image/sound by the amount of pho-tonic fall out. An increase in fall out causes animal nature to be attacked by the nuclear condition, by fake/artificial orbital nuclear sounds formed in the atmosphere. The animal nature has demonstrated its own life has been attacked unnaturally, as does human life/experiences.

This condition is caused by all scientists as a worldwide ownership or brotherhood, just as old occult practices were also owned by all countries applying the occultism. Just like today, Muslims, Romans, English, Asian, Egyptian all have nuclear ownership. The responsibility of facing the fact that the consciousness of the human male is the reason for religious deception and teachings regarding ancient occult secrecy, the same method applied today regarding nuclear experiments and data gain.

The past occult reasoning versus spiritual awareness belonged to many different countrymen, who eventually joined together to fight occultist practice in all countries practicing the sciences, why the wars were actually fought.

Feed back of information as spiritual advice involves the imagery and voice of previous living lives and their recordings, why prophecy includes the imagery of actual living humans and also deceased humans as awareness and advice. The predictions of prophecy correct, for the amount of human experience, life lost by irradiation allows the feed back information to be precise as the greater conscious awareness.

The reason the fake/false/artificial anima fed back voice is heard is due to the speaking voice of the human male.....his life being nuclear affected, the animal life being nuclear affected, Nature affected, atmosphere affected, the stone disintegrated, just as witnessed. The information in total is then physically heard in the recordings speaking in an anima "tone" as an atmospheric condition called feed back, why it was realized Satan is an actual caused condition caused by the practices involving nuclear sciences as unnatural recordings.

The reason why an ancient human male (Christ review), irradiated by ancient occult practices reviewed his life cell condition as a immaculate realization was to try to prove by evidence that life came from origin spirit parentage (androgynous light beings or holy light beings). The origin spirit manifested into organic life due to crossing into life from origin light and the light sound of the atmosphere caused their spirit to convert inside of their own spirit selves. This is why the cell formation was considered to be immaculate for the naming of the real spirit could not be equated, for it already existed in its own natural light form.

This is how the immaculate story was written, as proof that the cell state of human life was "immaculately conceived" by the God of stone in Heaven.....the ethereal body of the Christ spiritual heaven.....oxygen and water. As value was given to allow for occult conversion as a theory, the feed back therefore gave value to describe the story of creation, whereas in fact it never had an owned story. The natural spirit never spoke or had a reason to hold a conversation for it simply existed in a balanced harmonic union with the nature of the natural spirit.

The true story of spirit has no ownership or namesake, for all of humanity were born of and because of 2 light spirits.....a human male, and a human female who had both manifested. The proof of the manifestation of spirit has many experiences of proof and cannot be argued by any religious order.

Genetics or inheritance belongs to the condition of the God stone body (magnetic quality) of the stone in the different continents, why DNA by country of origin is slightly different.

The only reason why belief or naming of the holiness of life and spirit is different is due to cultural effects, for the magnetism of stone affects the brain/mind forming different speech patterns, yet the values of the different speech are all the same.

When we review religious spiritual literature ......all countries describe the same effects as atmospheric fed back advice.

The mistake of the human male was to believe himself a powerful inventor, and because of his motivated power mongering the conditions for life survival on Earth are now challenged, and this challenge belongs to all of humanity, not a religious belief or a country.

The truth of the attacks of the origin Earth have already been revealed to humanity through archaeology, and the re-introduction of nuclear technology provided new evidence that occult practices (nuclear sciences) is an evil act against natural life, such as witnessed in Russia.

As the ancient wisdom aspired, the ancient occult practice was to use Sun Time or nuclear calculations for ancient building practices, using the pyramid relay and Temples, and many countries were involved in this ancient building technique.....levitation.

The documents for levitation state that converting of water and stone and its fusion belonged to the practice of changes to air (oxygen), to water (oxygen and hydrogen) to fire (hydrogen) and also to wood (cellular/plasma awareness), why the spirit of life was crucified on the cross of wood, that altered the natural + magnetic cross of Earth and caused it to shift. The attack upon life is recorded as a spiritual witness in all countries affected by the occult fall out.

We have witnessed the flattening of trees in Russia, unnatural fires in forest in the combustion of wood, unnatural human combustion and also the ancient attack of the Mayans, whose own continent was irradiated, their underground water (by archaeological evidence) became undrinkable and the forestry/crops surrounding their Temples flattened and burnt. This phenomena only recurred after nuclear conversion/experiments were conducted.

The cause for concern of the unnatural phenomena can only be dealt with when all of humanity and all countries scientists agree that they are all to blame for the conditions of unnatural spiritual attacks upon the natural life. Or as discussed the phenomena of the UFO and unnatural spirit manifestation.

As life is owned by all countries on Earth, then it is everyone's responsibility to enable life to be lived safely and lovingly on Earth, for we are in fact the natural inheritors of spirit as an equal family of humanity. We do belong to a world community and its safety is everyone's responsibility.

 

[William Strathmann]

The decisive question for me is: On a personal level, apart from the obvious politics, why deify anyone or anything at all?

To me Murph, there are serious shortcomings to your approach. If there actually IS a Supreme Being, then you yourself cannot "deify" that being, you can only recognize that the being is "Deity." No one has the power to make a thing into a literal Deity. But, I gather that you think that since significant numbers of humanity make deities for themselves out of cows and monkeys and snakes and even people, then that means that there is no actual Deity. To which I'd say, maybe, or maybe not. IMHO you can't discount the possiblity of a literal Deity merely because humans put that title on mortal creatures, or on humanly derived mythical personages. There still could be a literal Deity despite all the misidentifications. You have made many a post Murph about confusion between UFO encounters and various other paranormal phenomena and you always assert that even with so many peoples' conflusion and misidentifications, that does not disprove what you consider to be the actual reality of ET. So, perhaps you should apply this same approach to the possibility of the existence of Deity.

For me, in my days as a non-theist, my original thoughts about the possibility of Deity related to justice and injustice. The answer at which I arrived is fairly well summed up in Revelation 21:4:

"God will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

This verse presumes that there actually is a plan to all this temporary human tragedy and that at a certain point in time no more crime or disease or conflict will be permitted. At the very least this possibility makes stark the difference between an atheistic approach to life, and the biblical theistic approach. When I was a naturalist-atheist I was struck by the absurdity of murdered innocents and grisly hardened criminals all simply vanishing without either restitution or punishment. Everybody dies and simply ceases to exist. So, what about crimes against children who did nothing to provoke assaults. Will the perpetrating criminals forever go unpunished? Will the tortured children simply vanish?

I was a firefighter for eight years and thus a medical first responder. I did not respond to the particular call I am going to describe, but was told about it when I came on shift one morning. Some woman's car stalled in a rather desolate area of the city in the 1980's long before cell phones. She locked her doors and waited. Two guys pulled up and tried to talk her into accepting help, and she refused, for a while. Finally she gave in. They dragged her over to a brushy area and raped her. Then they took a stick and shoved it up into her ... yes, there. She was taken to the hospital still impaled. Another incident. Some 19 year old girl who'd been a cheerleader went out with some friends to some seedy bars and wound up drunk. Some bad hombres took her out to their car, and since she had passed out, they started playing tic-tac-toe on her chest with their knives. They cut off her nipples for the "O"s. Another incident. One bright Sunday morning, we got a call for a major accident (meaning injured passengers) at a location that was essentially a flat broad eight lane intersection. When I heard the location on the radio I had a hard time believing that on such a clear morning at such a safe intersection there could be a major accident. But when we got there we saw that indeed there were serious injuries. There'd been a head on collision between an Essex class Buick of the '70's in the wrong lane, and a tiny aluminum foil Japanese subcompact. Julie, the 19 year old driver of the Japanese subcompact was unconscious and pinned in her car. Part of her right kneecap was missing. She had a cut going across her left eye like makeup from KISS. We finally managed to get her out with Jaws of Life. She was pronounced dead three days later. The driver of the Buick had been stupified on drugs and I think drunk, and was essentially uninjured.

So, what can an atheist say to such things? Too bad? Crimes are just part of reality that are never, ever resolved? Believe whatever you like Murph. I think that crimes will ultimately be accounted for, and that restitution will be made for victims. But that can only happen if there actually is Someone who can judge all humanity. So, IMHO, an Almighty Creator and Judge is indicated.

 

[Randall]

To me Murph, there are serious shortcomings to your approach. If there actually IS a Supreme Being, then you yourself cannot "deify" that being, you can only recognize that the being is "Deity." No one has the power to make a thing into a literal Deity.

Respectfully, your logic is flawed in that it assumes there is a deity in the first place, in which case it has already been deified by somebody, and in that context, the deified being is a God only to those who have deified it. That being may not however be "supreme" because that is just a matter of opinion. It may be no more a deity to me than my morning cup of coffee ( perhaps even less so ). It is only through deification that anything or anyone becomes a God.

But, I gather that you think that since significant numbers of humanity make deities for themselves out of cows and monkeys and snakes and even people, then that means that there is no actual Deity. To which I'd say, maybe, or maybe not.

There is no "maybe" about the concept of deification. It's a fact that people do it. The Sun was considered a God by the Egyptians. There have also been living Gods; humans who are as real and physical as anything or anyone else who were considered by their devotees to be Gods or Goddesses. I think there are even one or two of those religions still in existence today. List of people who have been considered deities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IMHO you can't discount the possiblity of a literal Deity merely because humans put that title on mortal creatures, or on humanly derived mythical personages. There still could be a literal Deity despite all the misidentifications.

There is no misidentification if the person or thing that is deified is considered a god by those who have deified it. It is as legitimate a god as anyone else's. The only question is whether or not the claims made about the properties ( personality, powers, identity ... etc. ) are true or not, and the only way to test that is by analysis of verifiable evidence.

You have made many a post Murph about confusion between UFO encounters and various other paranormal phenomena and you always assert that even with so many peoples' conflusion and misidentifications, that does not disprove what you consider to be the actual reality of ET. So, perhaps you should apply this same approach to the possibility of the existence of Deity.

Actually, that's exactly what I'm doing. A god is clearly defined as a deity. Deification is clearly defined as making someone or something into a god. Therefore if someone deifies someone or something that is in their opinion an objectively real "supreme being" or "universe creator" or whatever the case may be, and that thing or being objectively exists as it has been described, then it is true that for the person ( or people ) who accept that being as their deity, that their God exists.

But just as one King may be a King for his people, but not be a King for another people, one person's God may not be everyone else's God, and some people ( like myself for example ) prefer to have no King or God at all. Therefore the title of King or God is only bestowed upon Kings and Gods by those who are their devotees. Although, I suppose someone or something ( it makes no difference ) could also self-appoint themselves to godhood if they have a big enough ego.

For me, in my days as a non-theist, my original thoughts about the possibility of Deity related to justice and injustice. The answer at which I arrived is fairly well summed up in Revelation 21:4:

This verse presumes that there actually is a plan to all this temporary human tragedy and that at a certain point in time no more crime or disease or conflict will be permitted. At the very least this possibility makes stark the difference between an atheistic approach to life, and the biblical theistic approach. When I was a naturalist-atheist I was struck by the absurdity of murdered innocents and grisly hardened criminals all simply vanishing without either restitution or punishment. Everybody dies and simply ceases to exist. So, what about crimes against children who did nothing to provoke assaults. Will the perpetrating criminals forever go unpunished? Will the tortured children simply vanish?

I was a firefighter for eight years and thus a medical first responder. I did not respond to the particular call I am going to describe, but was told about it when I came on shift one morning. Some woman's car stalled in a rather desolate area of the city in the 1980's long before cell phones. She locked her doors and waited. Two guys pulled up and tried to talk her into accepting help, and she refused, for a while. Finally she gave in. They dragged her over to a brushy area and raped her. Then they took a stick and shoved it up into her ... yes, there. She was taken to the hospital still impaled. Another incident. Some 19 year old girl who'd been a cheerleader went out with some friends to some seedy bars and wound up drunk. Some bad hombres took her out to their car, and since she had passed out, they started playing tic-tac-toe on her chest with their knives. They cut off her nipples for the "O"s. Another incident. One bright Sunday morning, we got a call for a major accident (meaning injured passengers) at a location that was essentially a flat broad eight lane intersection. When I heard the location on the radio I had a hard time believing that on such a clear morning at such a safe intersection there could be a major accident. But when we got there we saw that indeed there were serious injuries. There'd been a head on collision between an Essex class Buick of the '70's in the wrong lane, and a tiny aluminum foil Japanese subcompact. Julie, the 19 year old driver of the Japanese subcompact was unconscious and pinned in her car. Part of her right kneecap was missing. She had a cut going across her left eye like makeup from KISS. We finally managed to get her out with Jaws of Life. She was pronounced dead three days later. The driver of the Buick had been stupified on drugs and I think drunk, and was essentially uninjured.

So, what can an atheist say to such things? Too bad? Crimes are just part of reality that are never, ever resolved? Believe whatever you like Murph. I think that crimes will ultimately be accounted for, and that restitution will be made for victims. But that can only happen if there actually is Someone who can judge all humanity. So, IMHO, an Almighty Creator and Judge is indicated.

Interesting that you should mention crimes against children because the Biblical Judeo-Christian God did plenty of killing, specifically in one case, all the first born of a particular nation, including children, and it was in fact that part of the mythology that led me to the conclusion that: The Bible was either wrong about God being the perpetrator, or God was evil; or that the stories of such atrocities are fabrications ( pure myth ), or some combination of truth and myth. That realization was a long time ago, and I've since come a long ways in figuring out the whole "God thing".

Now, by all means feel free to disagree or brand me whatever kind of Satanic, blasphemous unbeliever who will be banished to Hell sort of person you want. None of it has any relevance to me on a personal level, and it would only go to show how far apart some people's worldviews are. Someone who is a radical religious nutcase to one person, is a faithful follower of ( insert your favorite god here ) to another. Where you fit in I'm not sure at this point. You imply that you are now a theist, which if that assumption is correct, means you believe in some deity or another ( not sure which one ), and my question would remain: Why deify whatever thing, entity, being, or whatever the case may be that is the God of your religion? What sort of "supremacy" is required to earn your devotion?

 

[marduk]

I quoteth the holiest of holy books:

The Final Proof of the non-Existence of God was proved by a Babel Fish.

Now, it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some have chosen to see it as the final proof of the NON-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED"

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

God

 

[Randall]

I quoteth the holiest of holy books:

Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy ... LOL ... very funny .

 

[William Strathmann]

If you want to query what the Satanic spirit is, having been irradiated myself and heard the feed back, I now know that all life is recorded by voice/image/sound by the amount of pho-tonic fall out.

Victimized, could I ask what your life was like before this irradiation event happened to you?

I have read carefully only four or five of your posts, but they all have an internal coherence.
Your vocabulary is broad, but your word use is highly unconventional.

Could I ask, did you receive some sort of advanced university education somewhere?
Would that have been before or after the irradiation event that happened to you?

Best wishes

 

[William Strathmann]

or brand me whatever kind of Satanic, blasphemous unbeliever who will be banished to Hell sort of person you want

Murph, why would I do that?

I am not judging anyone.

I speak for myself. As a non-theist naturalist I considered the evidence for and against the existence of a transcendent Creator. I came to the conclusion that such a Creator might exist. I initiated a communication toward this suspected Creator with the implicit understanding that if said suspected Creator does exist, that the response given to me would please be attuned to my ability to comprehend reality, and would clearly show that the response was not a mere natural random event that I mistakenly read something into. I received a response that proved to me that a Creator does indeed exist.

But such interactive communication was not a one-time event. To explain one of the interactive events I will have to first provide a natural event that had similar aspects that most people can relate to. So, as I've mentioned, I was once a military avionic-electronics tech. Once while working on equipment I was shocked by a very large capacitor, and if memory serves it was a 28,000 volt capacitor. I was almost jolted out of the back seat of the F-4. So, the point to be made is that I experienced a very powerful palpable force that I obviously could feel, but that I could not see.

So now to the interactive experience. After I'd become a theist I wanted to quit smoking. I tried to quit, but I'd been smoking for years and, as was later revealed, cigarette companies designed their product to be as addictive as possible. I was addicted to the nicotine kick. I tried to stop over and over for six months and could not. After yet another attempt and failure to stop, I initiated a forlorn communication to the Creator and told him that I wanted to quit, but that I did not have the power. At that moment I was overwhelmed by a palpable experiential force. It was just as palpable as the 28,000 volt shock, but was quite different in nature. Moreover, this palpable experience lasted for 20 minutes, and not just a split second as with the shock. After the experience subsided, I took the fresh pack of smokes, still with 17 fine cigarettes, and tossed them in a wastebasket, and left them there untouched for about three months. I never smoked again, and I never had the urge. So Murph, my approach to theism and religion and the various scriptures starts from personal experience.

Just to clarify my view, the 2016 best picture, "Spotlight," shows that one of largest institutional religious organizations in the world practiced disgusting things, and hid those crimes. So, many people, myself included, justifiably criticise institutional religions when they fail to live up to their own professed standards.

 

[Randall]

Murph, why would I do that? I am not judging anyone.

I was being facetious more than anything else there.

I speak for myself. As a non-theist naturalist I considered the evidence for and against the existence of a transcendent Creator. I came to the conclusion that such a Creator might exist. I initiated a communication toward this suspected Creator with the implicit understanding that if said suspected Creator does exist, that the response given to me would please be attuned to my ability to comprehend reality, and would clearly show that the response was not a mere natural random event that I mistakenly read something into. I received a response that proved to me that a Creator does indeed exist.

But such interactive communication was not a one-time event. To explain one of the interactive events I will have to first provide a natural event that had similar aspects that most people can relate to. So, as I've mentioned, I was once a military avionic-electronics tech. Once while working on equipment I was shocked by a very large capacitor, and if memory serves it was a 28,000 volt capacitor. I was almost jolted out of the back seat of the F-4. So, the point to be made is that I experienced a very powerful palpable force that I obviously could feel, but that I could not see.

So now to the interactive experience. After I'd become a theist I wanted to quit smoking. I tried to quit, but I'd been smoking for years and, as was later revealed, cigarette companies designed their product to be as addictive as possible. I was addicted to the nicotine kick. I tried to stop over and over for six months and could not. After yet another attempt and failure to stop, I initiated a forlorn communication to the Creator and told him that I wanted to quit, but that I did not have the power. At that moment I was overwhelmed by a palpable experiential force. It was just as palpable as the 28,000 volt shock, but was quite different in nature. Moreover, this palpable experience lasted for 20 minutes, and not just a split second as with the shock. After the experience subsided, I took the fresh pack of smokes, still with 17 fine cigarettes, and tossed them in a wastebasket, and left them there untouched for about three months. I never smoked again, and I never had the urge. So Murph, my approach to theism and religion and the various scriptures starts from personal experience.

Just to clarify my view, the 2016 best picture, "Spotlight," shows that one of largest institutional religious organizations in the world practiced disgusting things, and hid those crimes. So, many people, myself included, justifiably criticise institutional religions when they fail to live up to their own professed standards.

That's all fine. I've had experiences too, and I'd like to hear more details about yours. But in the meantime, experiences, although potentially powerful, aren't relevant to the question I posed, which is: Why deify a universe creator, or for that matter, anything else? If there's a universe creator then so what? All that means is that we live inside some sort of construct created by some vastly powerful system or entity or whatever the case may be. But is the power to create such a construct sufficient reason to deify such a creator? I submit that power alone, regardless of its source is not sufficient reason to grant an entity godhood. What do you think are sufficient grounds?

 

[breddell]

Why deify a universe creator, or for that matter, anything else? . . . What do you think are sufficient grounds?

I agree 100% of what William has been stating in this thread.

Before we can go down the road that ufology wants we need to define what God is, otherwise, this becomes a definitions game. St. Anselem provided a definition at one point as the 'greatest conceivable being', so that the very idea of God is a being than which there cannot be a greater. So the real question one has to answer is, is there anything answering to that description?

 

[breddell]

I'm actually having a rather intense discussion in private with another forum member about this stuff. It's private because the participant doesn't feel confident that an open discussion will be fair minded. I think that's a shame, but because it's been opened up here now, I think it's safe to say that we can discuss some of the same issues, and anyone who wants to participate can join in.
.

Ufology - I am back and see that you have started bringing up our topic in this thread. I will respond in the spirit of good debate and hope that you will help moderate this discussion. New threads may be needed. I tried to write you back, but see that I am not allowed to respond to you anymore.

 

[Randall]

Ufology - I am back and see that you have started bringing up our topic in this thread. I will respond in the spirit of good debate and hope that you will help moderate this discussion. New threads may be needed. I tried to write you back, but see that I am not allowed to respond to you anymore.

Others have commented that they can't post to me also. I have no idea why this happens. I've not changed any settings.

 

[Randall]

I agree 100% of what William has been stating in this thread.

Before we can go down the road that ufology wants we need to define what God is, otherwise, this becomes a definitions game. St. Anselem provided a definition at one point as the 'greatest conceivable being', so that the very idea of God is a being than which there cannot be a greater. So the real question one has to answer is, is there anything answering to that description?

I'll stick with objective conventional English definitions rather than anything self-serving and in that regard we've already established that religious gods and religious deities are the same thing and that deification is the way that beings or things become gods. Therefore the Judeo Christian God is only a god by virtue of those within that religion who have deified it via their belief ( faith ), or whatever other reasons they may have on a personal level. This is the way it is. That's fine for them, but personally I see no need for the deification of anything.