Whitley Strieber talking about the Greys

[Mogwa]

I found most of the "wisdom" offered in The Key to be sophomoric platitudes at best, mixed in with a healthy dose of patented Strieber gloom. If the lessons offered in that book are the best the Hidden Masters can offer, I suggest they stay in hiding and be content with whatever they can earn writing fortunes for Bazooka Joe bubblegum comics.
Do they still make that stuff?

 

[CapnG]

I suggest they stay in hiding and be content with whatever they can earn writing fortunes for Bazooka Joe bubblegum comics.
Do they still make that stuff?

Inconcievably, yes, yes they do.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

You can absolutely write anyone off who endorses Billy Meier, which Whitley Strieber does in that talk. I don't care if he has a fancy prose style and a big vocabulary. Without discernment, none of it matters.

 

[musictomyears]

You can absolutely write anyone off who endorses Billy Meier

Yeah, that's a strange one. BM seems such an obvious hoaxer. Does anybody know what Strieber thinks about BM - perhaps he has got a more nuanced view on him?

 

[Aaron LeClair]

You can absolutely write anyone off who endorses Billy Meier, which Whitley Strieber does in that talk. I don't care if he has a fancy prose style and a big vocabulary. Without discernment, none of it matters.

I recall hearing something that seemed to imply he endorses BM, but wasn't sure. If he does, then he has bit the believer bullet more so than I thought. Bob Dean lost credibility with me when I found out he endorses BM. Sad grown men are so easily fooled. In terms of hoax evidence, you can't get better than that case. It's as obvious as OJ being a murderer. Maybe more.

 

[Mogwa]

Strieber's tendency to accept unverified claptrap from sources already proven to be unreliable is one of his tendencies that annoys me most. But this isn't a fault unique to him. Something happens to people after they have experienced a paranormal event first hand that they would never hesitated to reject as nonsense before it happened to them; it's almost as if their natural mental faculties have been compromised in a way not unlike that of victims suffering from traumatic physical injury. Your trust, or faith, in your former perception of the world has been so permanently and radically altered that you feel a deep sense of confusion, which leaves you vulnerable to the schemes of dishonest charlatans. It doesn't help the situation when friends and family refuse to lend a sympathetic ear. That only increases the feelings of isolation.

 

[David Biedny]

Here's what I just posted on ATS regarding Bob Dean and his wife:

--------------

After watching the Marcia Schafer segment, listening to her claims of being in touch "with many species", and looking at her facial expressions and tone of voice, I personally don't buy a word of what she's saying. She is well-spoken, but rehearsed, and nothing that she says resonates with me. The fact that her book has testimonials from the likes of Sean David Morton, Robert Miles and Zecharia Sitchin speaks volumes to me. She claims to have extensive professional credentials, but like so many people involved in the UFO/New Age fields, she has nothing to back it up. She says that she can't mention a single client or project she's worked on, that she is bound by NDAs to keep secret about her professional background, which I say is absolute nonsense. I've signed big stacks of NDAs over the years, and there's nothing to stop me from saying that I've done work with specific companies - such as Autodesk, Adobe, The Federal Trade Commission, Apple, Lucasfilm, and many, many others - I just can't provide specific project details. The idea that she can't name a single corporate client is just silly beyond belief. She claims to have hard answers about the truth behind ETs and UFOs, and in my own experience, it's become crystal clear to me that ANYONE making such claims is instantly suspect. And to top it all off, she's an animal psychic, covering all bases including talking to your pet turtle. For crying out loud, why do folks find this person to be credible?!?!

I am also in complete agreement with Jeff Ritzmann regarding Bob Dean. He tells a good story, but there is absolutely no testimony, direct or otherwise, from any other source, that substantially or even minimally backs up what he has to say. The fact that so many ATS members find this man and his wife to be credible and convincing, worries me and makes me think that there will never by any significant revealing of the actual nature of the UFO phenomenon.

The Camelot Project has assembled a group of characters that are, as a whole, the least believable people in the UFO field, and the fact that the principals were deeply involved in the Serpo garbage should tell you something about their credibility and agenda.

If this is the future of UFO research, we're in deep, deep trouble.

---------------------------------------

As someone who has undergone a significant range of paranormal activity in my life, I find that I am even more critical than I might have been otherwise, and have the emotional experience to be able to differentiate between someone recounting a fantasy versus an actual experience. Granted, subjectivity is a key component to the reality of paranormal events, but the value of the initial reaction cannot be overestimated. If something sounds like crap, chances are that it is crap. And, for my money, ANYONE who buys into the Meier garbage shows that they lack the most basic level of critical thinking, of logical thought and deductive reasoning. As I've said many times, anyone can believe in any kind of shit, but that has precious little to do with understanding the actual nature of the real world.

 

[valiens]

When did Strieber endorse Billy Meier? I just listened to it again. He doesn't endorse the guy, he's relating a conversation where Meier's name came up.

 

[valiens]

Here's what I just posted on ATS regarding Bob Dean and his wife:

Dave, why do you think they do it? All of 'em? What do they gain? They can't really be making all that much more money off this stuff than any other line of work can they? Is it purely a drive to be famous, to be special in some way?

Seems like a real pain in the ass to rehearse a story, hoax photos, etc. for such minimal gain I feel like we must be missing something.

 

[David Biedny]

Jeremy, in the case of the guy from Switzerland, all the photos, etc., it's definitely a money thing. They have followers, and those followers are expected to hand over a percentage of their income to the organization. This guy also loves being revered, he had a history of making himself out to be a neo-messiah, the incarnation of Christ, etc. The list of products you can buy from those guys is extensive...

In the case of Bob Dean, he's a lot like Clifford Stone - they're both amiable, friendly guys want people to lok up to them, to respect them and seek out their opinion. It's Psych 101. Dean's wife is definitely doing this as a paying gig, I'm guessing that her "corporate" clients are few and far between. I mean, she's gonna go meet with a CEO and explain that she's an animal psychic? What's she going to do, speak to the company mascot penguin and tell the CTO that the sock puppet says to make the widgets purple? You think that she's going to be taken seriously by them? She's "receiving" telepathic messages from "many different species"... I mean, for fuck's sake, it's serious mental illness, for all I know. She's got the answers, man, she says so herself in that pathetic Camelot Project interview.

 

[musictomyears]

"Project Camelot"... That's not even an original name for an organisation.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Camelot+Project&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Camelot

From their web site:

"Bill Ryan is a Free Zone (Ron's Org) Scientologist, fully and publicly opposed to the goals and modus operandi of the Church of Scientology (and, he is proud to say, named on the Church of Scientology's official Enemies List)."

Following one of the links takes you here:

http://scientology.wikia.com/wiki/Rons_Org

Oh man...

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

When did Strieber endorse Billy Meier? I just listened to it again. He doesn't endorse the guy, he's relating a conversation where Meier's name came up.

From part one of Whitley‘s talk:

“I asked who he was and who they were. He mentioned the Billy Meier case, and so I suppose that they were the so-called blondes.”

The presupposition here appears to be that Billy Meier is legit. That sounds like endorsement to me.

An example of a more believable abduction case would be, I think, The Allagash Abductions. I'm reading Ray Fowler's book on that one right now. After that, I look forward to "The Watchers."

 

[Aaron LeClair]

When did Strieber endorse Billy Meier? I just listened to it again. He doesn't endorse the guy, he's relating a conversation where Meier's name came up.

From part one of Whitley‘s talk:

“I asked who he was and who they were. He mentioned the Billy Meier case, and so I suppose that they were the so-called blondes.”

The presupposition here appears to be that Billy Meier is legit. That sounds like endorsement to me.

An example of a more believable abduction case would be, I think, The Allagash Abductions. I'm reading Ray Fowler's book on that one right now. After that, I look forward to "The Watchers."

Not quite an endorsement, but it did raise the question in my mind.

I also think Allagash is a good case. Ray Fowler has been quiet in recent years it seems. He retire? Hiatus?

/edit. Changed Quite to quiet. Man, I make that mistake a lot.

 

[valiens]

Ray Fowler promised his wife he'd stop speaking publicly, but I'm working on getting him to do a "one night only" thing at next year's Culture of Contact festival, because the centerpiece is the Andreasson family on-stage together, with Betty's work in an art museum.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Ray Fowler promised his wife he'd stop speaking publicly, but I'm working on getting him to do a "one night only" thing at next year's Culture of Contact festival, because the centerpiece is the Andreasson family on-stage together, with Betty's work in an art museum.

Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall hearing about his wife etc. Thanks for the reminder.

If you have him on, maybe ask him about his own abduction experiences. I've gotten the impression most people don't know he thinks he's an "abductee".

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

I've been reading Fowler's "The Watchers." I'm about half way through it. Really bizarre stuff. Evidently, the "beings" once told Betty and Bob Luca, literally in a telephone conversation, that soon Betty Luca would have to endure tragedy and hardship. But, not to worry: her "faith" would see her through it. Ray Fowler appears to have played the role of an independent source documenting these premonitions before they actually happened. Betty called him, told him what had happened, etc. Well, that afternoon, two of her sons died in an auto-accident. Hmmnn...

The abduction experiences described in this book are incredibly strange. According to a hypnotized Betty Luca, these beings are "the caretakers" of nature and natural life. Well, I just don't want to believe this. It seems more reasonable to me that this woman's religion is coloring her encounters or perhaps creating them in her own hypnotized imagination. But then, can this explanation really take into account the really bizarre synchronicity mentioned above? Moreover, independent witnesses (family members) confirm UFO sightings followed by periods of missing time (they were "switched off" after a landing sighting followed by her abduction). Throw in a few implants, scoopmarks, scars, etc., and my conflation hypothesis falls apart.

Still, I just don't want to believe that the so-called angelic "Watchers," or "Gregori," actually exist. The implications of that are too big. What's more, a great multitude of abduction accounts reported in books by Jacobs and Hopkins do not confirm these ideas. Perhaps the "beings," if they exist, use religion (and whatever else) to control us. In the "Republic," Plato indicates that superior individuals would and should have no problem at all creating belief systems to control their subjects.

Moreover, throughout much of the book, the "beings" tell Betty Luca that she has been "chosen" to reveal things to mankind. I never can buy into this kind of thing. Why is it that all belief systems (religious cults, etc) always ask a people to believe that supernatural entities would choose a single individual, one damned person, to communicate their message? Wouldn't a telegram be more effective? They appear to choose the most unbelievable, unrealiable means possible to "reveal things" to us humans.

I'm startling to believe, instead, that there is some depth psychological phenomenon of the human mind that wills these experiences, via some complex imaginative process, into memory. What else explains this motif that appears throughout damn nigh all recorded history of an entire belief system resting on the authority of a single individual? I hate that. I'm so goddamned sick of this "believe me, I'm a 'chosen person'" type bullshit.

 

[valiens]

Ray Fowler promised his wife he'd stop speaking publicly, but I'm working on getting him to do a "one night only" thing at next year's Culture of Contact festival, because the centerpiece is the Andreasson family on-stage together, with Betty's work in an art museum.

Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall hearing about his wife etc. Thanks for the reminder.

If you have him on, maybe ask him about his own abduction experiences. I've gotten the impression most people don't know he thinks he's an "abductee".

I did a paper in high school on crop circles. Back then Fowler's number was in the phone book so I looked him up and quizzed him about his thoughts. Coincidentally he had just stepped off a plane from England where he saw them for himself and had quite a bit to say. He was kind enough to chat up a kid for about an hour.

I started asking him quesitons about Betty and at one point asked if he'd been abducted or if he thought the aliens knew about him, being that he's working with her. He REALLY didn't want to talk about that other than to say he was just figuring out that he is an abductee but it's extremely personal, involves his family, and he doesn't want to get into it just yet. His voice was choking up as he spoke to where I thought he might cry. This was well over a decade ago and he's since written about it so I'm not divulging secrets or anything.

But I do want to throw it out there because when I see the word "abductee" in quotes like that I'm not sure if it means you're winking and nudging when you're writing it, but I can tell you he's sincere about this and at least back then it was traumatic to even tell a complete stranger "I don't want to talk about it."

 

[valiens]

Chuckleberryfinn:

On the one hand the Lucas are fundamentalist Christians so their experiences are going to be filtered through that lens. On the other, Hopkins & Jacobs discard any testimony that does not fit with their "malevolent doctors" theories.

I can tell you from personal experience that I've been scared beyond the word terror and have also received a craptastic contactee-style message along with the now-cliche warnings about how we're killing the planet. So I can tell you that both scenarios exist. Whether one experience is more truthful than another I don't know but I've had them both and am finding it exceedingly difficult to dismiss the lovey dovey space brothers stuff out of hand as all made up by hoaxers (the way I used to and still want to).

 

[valiens]

Aaaaand here's the Strieber "2012" book launch in NYC video:

http://blog.valiens.com/2007/10/01/culture-of-contact-episode-8-whitley-strieber-book-launch-for-2012.aspx

Doesn't look insane to me.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I've been reading Fowler's "The Watchers." I'm about half way through it. Really bizarre stuff. Evidently, the "beings" once told Betty and Bob Luca, literally in a telephone conversation, that soon Betty Luca would have to endure tragedy and hardship. But, not to worry: her "faith" would see her through it. Ray Fowler appears to have played the role of an independent source documenting these premonitions before they actually happened. Betty called him, told him what had happened, etc. Well, that afternoon, two of her sons died in an auto-accident. Hmmnn...

The abduction experiences described in this book are incredibly strange. According to a hypnotized Betty Luca, these beings are "the caretakers" of nature and natural life. Well, I just don't want to believe this. It seems more reasonable to me that this woman's religion is coloring her encounters or perhaps creating them in her own hypnotized imagination. But then, can this explanation really take into account the really bizarre synchronicity mentioned above? Moreover, independent witnesses (family members) confirm UFO sightings followed by periods of missing time (they were "switched off" after a landing sighting followed by her abduction). Throw in a few implants, scoopmarks, scars, etc., and my conflation hypothesis falls apart.

Still, I just don't want to believe that the so-called angelic "Watchers," or "Gregori," actually exist. The implications of that are too big. What's more, a great multitude of abduction accounts reported in books by Jacobs and Hopkins do not confirm these ideas. Perhaps the "beings," if they exist, use religion (and whatever else) to control us. In the "Republic," Plato indicates that superior individuals would and should have no problem at all creating belief systems to control their subjects.

Moreover, throughout much of the book, the "beings" tell Betty Luca that she has been "chosen" to reveal things to mankind. I never can buy into this kind of thing. Why is it that all belief systems (religious cults, etc) always ask a people to believe that supernatural entities would choose a single individual, one damned person, to communicate their message? Wouldn't a telegram be more effective? They appear to choose the most unbelievable, unrealiable means possible to "reveal things" to us humans.

I'm startling to believe, instead, that there is some depth psychological phenomenon of the human mind that wills these experiences, via some complex imaginative process, into memory. What else explains this motif that appears throughout damn nigh all recorded history of an entire belief system resting on the authority of a single individual? I hate that. I'm so goddamned sick of this "believe me, I'm a 'chosen person'" type bullshit.

I found The Watchers to be boring. Not sure why. Too much religion in it for me maybe.