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Walter Bosley and Empire of the Wheel II: Friends From Sonora

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Gene Steinberg

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
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On Thursday, August 29 (rescheduled), from 10 AM until Noon Pacific time, we'll be welcoming back paranormal investigator Walter Bosley, a former counterintelligence agent.

Among the topics on the menu is his latest book: "The second volume in the investigation of strange esoteric circumstances surrounding seven curious and questionable deaths in 1915 San Bernardino Valley. This book explores the unexpected fingerprints of a group of aviators who allegedly built secret airships in California before the Civil War and may have been responsible for the widely reported but mostly forgotten Great Airship Mystery of 1897. Along with bizarre circumstances linking two of the victims to the airship milieu, the possible identity of one of the victims also appears to bring the legendary outlaws Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid into the mystery. Now footnoted!"

And that's just for starters.
 
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Hello. I listened to your Radio Misterioso interview a while back and must say I'm very skeptical about the conclusions you presented there. Of course, I would have to read the actual book, to come to any conclusions of my own. I'm afraid that, being a german, I can't understand the enthusiasm of your german speaking friend regarding the transliteration of NYMZA or NJMZA. It just seems very constructed."Jagdflugzeuge" is a term that clearly wouldn't have been used for airships in the 1850s, only for fighter or interceptor airplanes from WW I on. And "Zahlungsamt" means something like payment office and hasn't much to do with financing. I do have a question, too: why is it that germans are so popular with UFO theories today (I guess the airships, since they have never been identified, could be called UFOs)?

@ Gene and Chris: I know the post is a tad bit grumpy and not really a question, so I won't be angry if you omit it.
 
@Decker @Gene @Christopher O'Brien

Has anyone done a check on this claim: "Walter Bosley is a former AFOSI Special Agent and FBI counterintelligence specialist." I'm sure that he of all people should respect a request for proof of credentials.

Questions for Bosley:
  • What's your take on Snowden?
  • How much of Echelon is fact and how much is fiction?
  • Has fake information ever been used as a counterintelligence tactic ( by us or them )? For example, the planting of documents to throw investigators of the real track?
 
Hey ufology, as a matter of fact Don Ecker, Greg Bishop and the late Kevin Smith were all sent my credentials: DD214 and a pay stub from the FBI. Skeptic hero Lance Moody also received a copy of my DD214. If you have any further questions about my employment, you may contact AFOSI headquarters. My last commander was LtCol James McDonough, AFOSI Detachment 101, WPAFB. My badge number was 1911. My first OSI commander was Richard Smith, LA AFB, Detachment 110. I am a Captain, USAF Reserve, Inactive. My commissioning date was 19 Nov 1993. My FTO was Capt John Anderson. My partner in Los Angeles was SA James Martin, AFOSI (Capt USAF). I did not have a partner, as such, at WPAFB, because I was Chief of the Counterespionage Operations Branch, Det 101 -- except those 179 days I was deployed to the AFOSI detachment of the 4404 WING at Prince Sultan AB, Al Kharj, KSA. While there, my first detco was SA Steve Runyan, my second was SA Pete Courtney. I served for 45 days as the OIC of the Wing Force Protection Cell, a slot for a Major which I held as a First Lieutenant, by the way.

My ex-wife Laura Eimiller is the spokesperson for the Los Angeles Field Office of the FBI -- incidentally the same field office where I began my federal service on 14 March 1988 as a GS-3 Mail Clerk. About 45 days later, I was promoted to Evidence Technician. About three months later, I was promoted to Investigative Specialist after being sent through a counterintelligence ops course at Quantico. From that point forward, my CI career began. If you care to do FOIA, maybe the FBI will tell you the names of my supervisors there. Make sure you dig into the Los Angeles Field Office, the San Francisco Field Office, the Baltimore Field Office and the New York Field Office, as those were the cities I was assigned to. I ended my time with the FBI as a Language Specialist, Russian, to enter active duty with the USAF and serve as Special Agent AFOSI.

What I did after the air force, from 1999 to 2006, was personnel anti-terrorism security and collections as a private contractor in Europe (E and W), the Middle East, Central Asia, North Africa, South America and the Philippines. My sources are out of the country right now. One is a chief of a security team for DOS in Afghanistan, the other is aboard ship performing anti-piracy services for commercial shipping. I am presently a licensed private investigator in California. My resume contains all the specialized training I've received over the years, including much that would excite your conspiratorial heart. If you like, I can tell you thing about specific places in Kabul, Bogota, Khartoum, Amman, Sarajevo, Manila, Mosul, Basra, Islamabad, Karachi, Tel Aviv, etc etc as I experienced them.

Snowden is not what he is presented to be, is my take on him. But I'm not 'inside' any more so I am not privy to the case file nor the briefings, so I'd be rather ignorant to comment with any certainty beyond that.

Whatever I was told about Echelon, I have no need to remember, so no comment there.

Are you serious about your third question? It's called 'double agentry' and it was what I was branch chief of at WPAFB from Mar 1996-April 1999. Yes such material is passed. You'll find that fact in various open source publications since World War 2.

Again, ask Lance Moody, Don Ecker and Greg Bishop if they've seen my credentials. Kevin just died, so he won't be able to help you.

:)

Walter Bosley
Captain, USAF Reserve (Inactive)
 
Polterwurst,

I research and present what I find. My book explains why I considered the German translation. I went to people whose German is far better than mine, including natives. Of course if the term was used for planes in WW2, that I won't dispute. The premise of my book is a premise. If you simply can't consider it, that is your choice. I don't argue about what I write, I simply let the reader think what they choose. Some folks find it interesting and possible, some don't. I'm just grateful for the opportunity to get to talk about it with interested people like Chris. I look forward to being on the show to talk about it, but I'm not trying to change anyone's mind on their positions. I'm not popular with skeptics so you might not find my interview to your tastes and that I perfectly understand. :)

And, I politely suggest, you might understand my premise better if you actually read the book... ;)

Walter Bosley :)
 
ufology said:
@Decker @Gene @Christopher O'Brien

Has anyone done a check on this claim: "Walter Bosley is a former AFOSI Special Agent and FBI counterintelligence specialist." I'm sure that he of all people should respect a request for proof of credentials.
Click to expand...

Well ufology, it appears Walter saw your questions before I did. Yes, Walter showed me his credentials prior to his first appearance on DMR. I hope he answered the questions you had, yes Walter is most legit.

Decker
 
Overnight, Walter also send me some material, including a copy of his DD 214 (military discharge certificate). I understand the sensitivity, since we do see people in the UFO field who fake their credentials. One blatant example, according to Kevin Randle, is Lt. Col. Richard French. French had real accolades for his military service, but he chose, instead, to fabricate a life that didn't exist:

A Different Perspective: Richard French, UFOs and Roswell
 
AdventureMan said:
Hey ufology, as a matter of fact Don Ecker, Greg Bishop and the late Kevin Smith were all sent my credentials: DD214 and a pay stub from the FBI. Skeptic hero Lance Moody also received a copy of my DD214. If you have any further questions ... :)

Walter Bosley
Captain, USAF Reserve (Inactive)
Click to expand...

Impressive. BTW, I really dislike having to ask that question, but thank you so much for your reply and looking forward to the show :) !
  • Regarding Snowden, specific facts aren't really what I was asking for so much as an educated opinion based on your personal experience. For example we've suspected most of his claims are true for a long time prior to his disclosure, so has he in your opinion disclosed anything that was actually secret?
  • On ECHELON, I find your response curiously weak. Perhaps I wasn't clear about what I mean by ECHELON: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON. It would seem that anyone with your training and experience should have more knowledge about this system than the average person. For example V. James Bamford, who was also in US intelligence wrote about it in his books on the NSA. Are you sure you can't illuminate this topic for us to a greater extent than the Wikipedia article?
  • Since you've confirmed that the planting of documents and such is an accepted tactic, what is your opinion of the MJ-12 documents, with particular attention to those that Friedman found in the archives?
On the airships: Have you run across any reports of airships that occurred during weather that should have grounded any such craft or of craft that seemed to perform beyond the capability of any such manmade craft? If so can you tell us about some of those?
 
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AdventureMan said:
Polterwurst,
And, I politely suggest, you might understand my premise better if you actually read the book... ;)
Click to expand...

I might just do that, but as a work of speculative fiction. I guess that's okay with you. :D

Thank you for addressing my post. So now I'm getting my answers even before the show. Nice. :)

And I actually have another question that may be omitted in the interview because it might seem a bit rude:

What do you think about other people with (government) credentials in the UFO field and their claims? People like Clifford Stone, John Lear, Richard Doty, Michael M. Collins etc. Even if you don't count yourself among them, maybe you do have some insights.

You see, I'm relatively new to all this. When I started listening to the paracast a few years ago, I knew zilch about the whole field. And I thought theories about disinformation agents were just ridiculous. But then I discovered these guys, who you would think are "the real deal", "whistleblowers", sincere and credible ex-government officials etc. but when you look at their claims, they are just so far out there and put the whole field into a corner where it's quite rightly laughed at by mainstream media and the public in general. So what the heck... am I falling for a conspiracy theory here or what?
 
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I'm sorry Gene. My impatience with these "hip" Nazi UFO theories has gotten the better of me. I admit I do perceive this "secret german airship society" story as an attempt to jump on that wagon and date it back to the mid 1800s. Probably I'm totally wrong. And I did hide a few questions in there.
 
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ufology,

"On ECHELON, I find your response curiously weak..." LOL, that's nice. Consider that I simply choose not to talk about it. Maybe I don't know enough about it to answer your curiosities sufficiently. Maybe I'm just not that interested. :)

I already gave my opinion on Snowden. He's not what he appears to be. You take it from there. Many others have gone where I could go, so it would be redundant and, honestly, I don't find the whole affair that fascinating anymore.

Specifically, I "confirmed" the passing of fake info has been part of double agentry for a very long time. That's no secret to anyone who has studied the intelligence business as it has been run for over a century (just amusingly new to people into UFOs and conspiracy research...). I don't know what was specifically going on operationally with the whole MJ-12 thing, if it was truly an op and not some jokesters, but I think there may be some truth in the docs but they were passed to convince a bunch of people of something else other than what the truth in them may be. And that's my final comment on that. I don't find MJ-12 all that interesting anymore and I'm sort of surprised anyone does.

I'll discuss what I know of the airships in the interview. I'm answering this stuff here because I don't have the slightest bit of interest in discussing your questions' topics on the air. Not to be rude, but the stuff doesn't interest me that much. :)
 
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Polterwurst,

You said yourself that you're impatient with Nazi UFO stories. My book isn't actually about the Nazis, but to be fair it is a sort of precedent to that. Perhaps you probably shouldn't listen at all tomorrow. We just disagree on the basic premise so it's pointless for you to listen. Seriously, you're going to think it's all hooey, and I don't debate. :)

"What do you think about other people with (government) credentials in the UFO field and their claims? People like Clifford Stone, John Lear, Richard Doty, Michael M. Collins etc. Even if you don't count yourself among them, maybe you do have some insights."

I don't think much about them at all, actually. I don't know any of them so I don't know their truest motives. Doty was an OSI agent and, as I understand it, had my specialty for a while. I've said elsewhere that he was brought up as a cautionary tale once by my supervisor at my first assignment. That's all I experienced of Doty while in OSI.

Basically, I'm no longer that much interested in UFOs. Haven't been for years. I've already come to my conclusions which I've stated enough in a public forum so I do not discuss anything UFO related in interviews. I'm neither that much interested in the popular conspiracy theories of the day. I'm not 'outraged' by any of it. My interests are elsewhere, on other things, simply. As I'll discuss in the interview, my research has led me into the direction Rick and I have gone with the books, and the third one will follow that trail and not be about the airships. If you get personal satisfaction out of calling them 'speculative fiction', it truly doesn't bother me. I know my audience is small, knew that when I started. I have other things in my life so it's all good. Where my current books are concerned, I'm investigating some curious things, presenting what I and Rick Spence find, offer an analysis, but leave it up to the reader to decide for themselves. I gave up trying to convince people of things. Some people have forgotten to have fun with such things, so many people are on crusades to prove someone 'wrong' or to be James Randi. If my premise bothers anyone, I tell them to just have fun with it. :)

Here's my suggestion: You admit you're "new to all this". Rather than pointedly question those who are not new to all this, it may be best to actually catch yourself up. Read my book to see what it actually is about; read other books. Do your homework, bring yourself up to speed, then you'll have a better grasp on who is saying what and where they're actually coming from. It's sort of going about it backwards expecting "veterans" (so to speak) of this stuff to have to step back to address things many others already know. I'm sincerely not trying to be rude. :)

I'm glad we're getting all the intel and UFO stuff out of the way because I don't discuss it on the air anymore and it would be boring to those who expect that. :)
 
AdventureMan said:
ufology,

"On ECHELON, I find your response curiously weak..." LOL, that's nice. Consider that I simply choose not to talk about it. Maybe I don't know enough about it to answer your curiosities sufficiently. Maybe I'm just not that interested. :)

I already gave my opinion on Snowden. He's not what he appears to be. You take it from there. Many others have gone where I could go, so it would be redundant and, honestly, I don't find the whole affair that fascinating anymore.

Specifically, I "confirmed" the passing of fake info has been part of double agentry for a very long time. That's no secret to anyone who has studied the intelligence business as it has been run for over a century (just amusingly new to people into UFOs and conspiracy research...). I don't know what was specifically going on operationally with the whole MJ-12 thing, if it was truly an op and not some jokesters, but I think there may be some truth in the docs but they were passed to convince a bunch of people of something else other than what the truth in them may be. And that's my final comment on that. I don't find MJ-12 all that interesting anymore and I'm sort of surprised anyone does.

I'll discuss what I know of the airships in the interview. I'm answering this stuff here because I don't have the slightest bit of interest in discussing your questions' topics on the air. Not to be rude, but the stuff doesn't interest me that much. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks again, still looking forward to the show. I'll admit that it was an assumption on my part that because your credentials are part of your promotional material, that you actually found the whole business of National Security and Intelligence interesting, and possibly even relevant to your present work. I guess I was wrong. Although you may not find such connections interesting, I hope you can understand that some of us listeners do, and that because your promotional material features that content, it's bound to raise related questions. I'd suggest that in the future, if discussing security and Intelligence related issues doesn't interest you and isn't applicable to what you are doing now, then don't include those credentials in your promotional material. Not only is it irrelevant, it also solicits attention that you don't want.
 
Irrelevant? Gosh, I thought the interview is going to be about my new book which does include some operational/intelligence aspects, in which I am experienced. :D

Oh! You mean irrelevant to what you want to talk about! LOL :)

What I include in my promotional materials serves to support the facts of my bio and to show that I know a little something about related topics found in my writings. Simply because I don't choose to discuss the topics within the context of your interests does not mean I should suddenly not include them. Anyone reserves the right to not discuss whatever topics they choose not to discuss, which I've done politely so far. Keep in mind, I don't really answer to listeners or readers. Ask what you like, but don't expect that someone is obligated to answer or even entertain every question. :)
 
And that'll pretty much bring to an end my pre-show comments. I think you can see what I'll not be addressing or showing much interest in tomorrow. I hope I'm not disappointing too many people, but I'm just not that interested in Snowden, the NSA scandal, UFOs, MJ-12, etc etc to discuss them publicly. I have my opinions, but those are personal and have no bearing on the topic of my research as pertains to the EOW books. If Gene and Chris change their minds in light of that, it's their show. But they are having me on and I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss what I've been writing about since I was last here. :)
 
I enjoy listening to Mr. Bosley on podcasts and reading his books. My questions for him would be:

1) Could he talk a little about Sesh Heri's ideas and work, including how it relates to what I think of as "traditional" ley line lore (e.g., Alfred Watkins);

2) Back in the 90's we had the Satanic Panic where law enforcement was alerted to a(n alleged) new type of occult-motivated crime. Does the San Bernardino Working constitute "proof" that this category of crime really exists? Why or why not?

3) I have a question about Crowley's knowledge and use of telluric currents, but writing it down I realized it will bore people. On to:

4) What's Mr. Bosley's favorite story/incident concerning a carousel? Or, for people who haven't read his stuff or heard him before, what's his theory of the significance of carousels?

Thank you. I look forward to listening to the podcast.

Sue Johnson
 
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