Gareth
Nothin' to see here
Interesting. That was just the nudge I needed to commit to watching those youtube clips.
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Travis Walton
- Thread starter Ron Collins
- Start date
Interesting. That was just the nudge I needed to commit to watching those youtube clips.
Hoffmeister
There is no spoon
My opinion is that him and his mates made it up.
They admitted that they had an interest in UFO's beforehand. They also would have all had a lot of time together to get their stories straight as they spent a lot of time in the woods together.
The polygraphs were controversial and are a crap lie detector anyway, and most damningly the polica went to check the phone booth that he had apparently called his family from after he had been abducted and there were no finger prints or footprints etc.
Could be wrong, but until i see some evidence otherwise, this is what i think most likely happened.
They admitted that they had an interest in UFO's beforehand. They also would have all had a lot of time together to get their stories straight as they spent a lot of time in the woods together.
The polygraphs were controversial and are a crap lie detector anyway, and most damningly the polica went to check the phone booth that he had apparently called his family from after he had been abducted and there were no finger prints or footprints etc.
Could be wrong, but until i see some evidence otherwise, this is what i think most likely happened.
Ok.
I would be very loathe to discount the account simply for this reason; if we assume the account is true, they would still have had an interest in UFO's beforehand.
Millions of people have an interest in UFO's. Such an interest doesn't automatically lead to complex hoaxes.
Once again, this was true regardless of whether the account was true or not.
What I'm looking for are things that are true, but shouldn't be true if the account is true....does that make sense, or am I insane? Don't answer that.
Or things that are false, but should be true if the account is true.
Not things that are true regardless of whether the account is true.
Yes, polygraphs are unreliable. IANAL, but I do not think such evidence is admissible in U.S. courts at least. At most, polygraphs are useful tools for focusing investigative resources. If a person fails a poly, it is a reason to suspect they are lying. However, you can't believe that they are lying.
Of course we can't draw conclusions based on the absence of evidence. If the phone was used just once subsequent to Travis using it, it could obliterate the evidence.
If this *was* a complex hoax, that would be an odd oversight. He was actually picked up there right?
I agree with you inasmuch as this could've been a complex hoax. For me, though, the jury is still out.
If it was a hoax, somebody knows where Travis was those few days and eventually they will talk. Talking about the hoax and it's aftermath will present a new revenue stream.
Hoffmeister
There is no spoon
oh you're definately right, none of my reasons are particularly conclusive and the thing is with this case there is no evidence that massively swings it either way.
Again i'm just going with what i think is probably the most likely, and simple explanation.
Its a good point and i would like to clarify that i dont think that anyone who had an interest in the paranormal before their experience is making it up. Its just a good thing to know whether they did or not as it could be an indicator that either they are making it up, or that they are interpretting a non paranormal incident as paranormal, because they are into this sort of thing.
I think this is the reason that Gene and David will almost always ask people that question when they are on the paracast.
Again i'm just going with what i think is probably the most likely, and simple explanation.
Its a good point and i would like to clarify that i dont think that anyone who had an interest in the paranormal before their experience is making it up. Its just a good thing to know whether they did or not as it could be an indicator that either they are making it up, or that they are interpretting a non paranormal incident as paranormal, because they are into this sort of thing.
I think this is the reason that Gene and David will almost always ask people that question when they are on the paracast.
D
Dolphtesla
Guest
Wow, this case fascinates me. several witnesses. 5 days missing.
Lets say he is telling the truth. I wonder if the "creatures" made themselves appear more human during his second encounter on the ship? Just a thought.
Yeah, this is one of my favorite public cases.
Lets say he is telling the truth. I wonder if the "creatures" made themselves appear more human during his second encounter on the ship? Just a thought.
Yeah, this is one of my favorite public cases.
Ghis
Paranormal Novice
This is the best cases...
I have a couple of point I want to bring to the discussion. First I was looking at the documentary and when you see the Nordic (tall Blonde or whatever) at the door, I tough there sending the big gun... The strong bodyguard....
Or you could see the other way, they are using these type of Android robot doing the study or direct contact, but when it goes bad the boss coming out... or it could be a combination of the two... meaning the boss would never but itself in harm way so first the Android does the study and then the bodyguard are send when thing goes bad.... but what makes senses to us is probably not to them.... Maybe like you say, they make themselves look a certain way...
I heard somewhere an idea that I find interesting, that when Travis when under the craft, he got some type of radiation poisoning and they brought him in to treat him for this....
Well I know it's probably not even close to what happen but I find it interesting...
T
Tommy Allison
Guest
If everyone who had the interest in UFO's were counted among those who lack credibility when talking about what they see, then why in the fuck would we listen or watch anyone in this field?
I had an interest in women well before I ever saw one naked in person. Yet my memory of that event is as clear as a bell. Does that make me unreliable in my recollection of it?
Just because you have an interest in something before you see it, doesn't make you unreliable. I had an interest in UFO's prior to my own sightings. My father had an interest in them, before he ever saw something. In fact, my whole family has been looking up at the stars their entire lives, with an avid interest in what's going on up there.
Does that make us unreliable, or untruthful when it comes to what we might see? No it does not.
Then again, I'm not Travis Walton. I haven't had his experiences, nor do I know the man. You can say what you want about Travis, or the fact that he makes money off of his story. However, you shouldn't be saying that just because you have an interest in something unusual, that your words and statements should be discounted.
By that rationale, every pilot who's ever seen a UFO shouldn't be counted as being a reliable witness. Nor should any military or law enforcement person's testimony be considered credible, as by their very job's nature would mean they had an interest in what they are responding to.
We all have interests that get our attention. If I were to be driving along with my friends, and see something bright red, and glowing in a forest, one that I was working in, I'd have a VERY vested interest in it, as a forest fire is bad news. If I were abducted by aliens, and my friends saw it happen, I would hope that their testimony might help the cops find me.
As I understand it, ALL of his friends passed the lie detector tests. ALL of them.
Does this mean they're ALL good liars?
The way I see it, you won't be getting anything new out of the Travis Walton story. In fact, I would wager that he's probably never had another experience like it again. As opposed to some of the other frauds who claim they've been abducted numerous times, and had sex with space aliens, or had hybrid children.
The real tell in this, is the fact that none of Travis' friends have written books, or had movie options. You would think if they all made it up on a lark, they'd ALL be collecting money somehow off of their various books and experiences.
I for one am on the fence about his experience, because of some of the things that he's said over the years. What I know is this. There are a lot of people who tell stories, and sell them to the gullible masses who gobble it up. Then there are those who don't tell stories at all, who have had plenty happen to them.
It's finding out who THOSE people are that's important. I would also wager that the Abduction Phenomena destroys families, relationships, and leaves scars that simply cannot go away. If you look at it from that perspective, then Travis Walton's story might not be so far fetched after all.
I had an interest in women well before I ever saw one naked in person. Yet my memory of that event is as clear as a bell. Does that make me unreliable in my recollection of it?
Just because you have an interest in something before you see it, doesn't make you unreliable. I had an interest in UFO's prior to my own sightings. My father had an interest in them, before he ever saw something. In fact, my whole family has been looking up at the stars their entire lives, with an avid interest in what's going on up there.
Does that make us unreliable, or untruthful when it comes to what we might see? No it does not.
Then again, I'm not Travis Walton. I haven't had his experiences, nor do I know the man. You can say what you want about Travis, or the fact that he makes money off of his story. However, you shouldn't be saying that just because you have an interest in something unusual, that your words and statements should be discounted.
By that rationale, every pilot who's ever seen a UFO shouldn't be counted as being a reliable witness. Nor should any military or law enforcement person's testimony be considered credible, as by their very job's nature would mean they had an interest in what they are responding to.
We all have interests that get our attention. If I were to be driving along with my friends, and see something bright red, and glowing in a forest, one that I was working in, I'd have a VERY vested interest in it, as a forest fire is bad news. If I were abducted by aliens, and my friends saw it happen, I would hope that their testimony might help the cops find me.
As I understand it, ALL of his friends passed the lie detector tests. ALL of them.
Does this mean they're ALL good liars?
The way I see it, you won't be getting anything new out of the Travis Walton story. In fact, I would wager that he's probably never had another experience like it again. As opposed to some of the other frauds who claim they've been abducted numerous times, and had sex with space aliens, or had hybrid children.
The real tell in this, is the fact that none of Travis' friends have written books, or had movie options. You would think if they all made it up on a lark, they'd ALL be collecting money somehow off of their various books and experiences.
I for one am on the fence about his experience, because of some of the things that he's said over the years. What I know is this. There are a lot of people who tell stories, and sell them to the gullible masses who gobble it up. Then there are those who don't tell stories at all, who have had plenty happen to them.
It's finding out who THOSE people are that's important. I would also wager that the Abduction Phenomena destroys families, relationships, and leaves scars that simply cannot go away. If you look at it from that perspective, then Travis Walton's story might not be so far fetched after all.
Kevin Daly
Skilled Investigator
One of the things that impresses me about the case is that the witnesses have not all been continuously on the best of terms since the event...under normal circumstances that would lead somebody to break from the herd and describe in detail how they made the whole thing up. That hasn't happened.
The more participants in a hoax, the harder it is to keep everybody on message indefinitely.
If it's a hoax someone will talk sooner or later, if only because the story of the hoax might be worth something.
So I think it's holding up pretty well so far.
The more participants in a hoax, the harder it is to keep everybody on message indefinitely.
If it's a hoax someone will talk sooner or later, if only because the story of the hoax might be worth something.
So I think it's holding up pretty well so far.
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
One person was taken out of the test due to other legal conflicts. Travis failed his first, but has past many since including one with the same ass hole examiner. There is an excuse given, not disputed by the examiner. I'm not going to go into details that should already be known. I gave that up in my usenet daze. All that I speak can be found through google I'm sure.
All of his friends that did take the test, did pass. The odds of them lying and all passing is, well....... far fetched. Around as far fetched as their story.
There is a slight prob though. Travis and his boss were caught forging payroll checks around the time. This proves they weren't the most honest of people. Always a kink in ufology eh?
There's dents in the story. But, to this day, it hasn't been blown away. The Travis Walton case is a mystery. One that deserves no conclusions, but an open and yet skeptical mind. IMO.
I do wonder how 5 or 6 men could all lie and pass the initial lie detector test. Even while one was a suspect of murder and the rest were suspects of covering it up. Puzzling to me. Travis Walton, is not a bad case. I'll leave it at that.
All of his friends that did take the test, did pass. The odds of them lying and all passing is, well....... far fetched. Around as far fetched as their story.
There is a slight prob though. Travis and his boss were caught forging payroll checks around the time. This proves they weren't the most honest of people. Always a kink in ufology eh?
There's dents in the story. But, to this day, it hasn't been blown away. The Travis Walton case is a mystery. One that deserves no conclusions, but an open and yet skeptical mind. IMO.
I do wonder how 5 or 6 men could all lie and pass the initial lie detector test. Even while one was a suspect of murder and the rest were suspects of covering it up. Puzzling to me. Travis Walton, is not a bad case. I'll leave it at that.
T
Tommy Allison
Guest
I had no idea about the Check Forging thing, but even so it has nothing to do with UFO's.
Unless, they cooked up the story of the Alien Abduction to distract people from the check forging thing. Even so, they wouldn't all be able to take a Polygraph and pass them.
It's pretty bizarre, but what I haven't gotten is why his buddies never wrote books about their experiences with Travis.