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This Forum is For Your Experiences

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
I haven't been here since 2012 it seems. I started getting emails regarding posts in here over the last week, so I thought I'd pop in.

I'm now 71 years old, and "experiences" have been going on in my life since I was 5. Topic-wise, they lasted until 2010, and I have spent from then until today trying to figure all of this out.

The problem is, these experiences were not given in the methodology people usually expect ... what I just call classical teaching. What I got falls into a category called constructivism, where you are given a clue, and, YOU have to do all the work trying to figure out what this is all about. In constructivism these pieces of information are called schema / schemata, and they do not give you anything more than a direction to go - and believe me it can can take A LONG TIME to get to where you have to be.

At any rate, I have to go out, and rather than sit here writing, I'll just give you the topic, and a single question: The topic regards a subject we've been handed via religion called "The End Times." My question is: What do you think this subject is all about (seeing as nothing ever seems to happen}?

I'll be back later.
Let's start with an example one of of your "experiences" that you consider to be a "clue".
 

Onlychild

Skilled Investigator
Let's start with an example one of of your "experiences" that you consider to be a "clue".
If by "clue" you are referring to schema, when I was 5 years old and getting dressed one morning I was hit with this line: "The Catholic Church is wrong."

Just to keep this short, it literally took me decades to figure that one line out. The bottom line is that Christianity is the source for "end times" information for many people ... and an analysis of the history behind Christianity (as well as the NT text itself) shows that the entire belief came from the Zoroastrian religion and their "end times" beliefs. For the Zoroastrians, the "coming one" was the Saoshyant.

As far as the NT text - if you actually read it the way it was written, you will see this "return" of Jesus, as well as the "end" was to have happened in their life time - and, it never did. People don't see it because they read it as if it was talking to them today - and it isn't. One example is Heb.10:37: For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. "A very little while" is not 2000 rounded years.

Another popular argument revolves around the book of Revelation, with people believing characters like the Antichrist are either here now or really close to coming. My question simply is - have you ever read the very first verse of Revelation? It states simply that the things written about are to happen SOON. And again - soon is NOT 2000 rounded years.
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.

That basic line is repeated in the last chapter (22) as well: 6 The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.

And it also says: 12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

With regard to schemata, they never give you "the answers" ... they are structures which do not contain information about particular entities, instances or events, but rather about their general form. So - yes, "the Catholic Church" (which was the only connection I had to Christianity in the mid-50s) was "wrong." I just had to figure out what that "wrong" was ... welcome to constructivism, the teaching method that makes YOU do all the work.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
If by "clue" you are referring to schema,
That would seem to be the case according to your intro.
when I was 5 years old and getting dressed one morning I was hit with this line: "The Catholic Church is wrong."
Okay
Just to keep this short, it literally took me decades to figure that one line out. The bottom line is that Christianity is the source for "end times" information for many people ... and an analysis of the history behind Christianity (as well as the NT text itself) shows that the entire belief came from the Zoroastrian religion and their "end times" beliefs. For the Zoroastrians, the "coming one" was the Saoshyant.
Okay
As far as the NT text - if you actually read it the way it was written, you will see this "return" of Jesus, as well as the "end" was to have happened in their life time - and, it never did. People don't see it because they read it as if it was talking to them today - and it isn't. One example is Heb.10:37: For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. "A very little while" is not 2000 rounded years.
Okay
Another popular argument revolves around the book of Revelation, with people believing characters like the Antichrist are either here now or really close to coming. My question simply is - have you ever read the very first verse of Revelation? It states simply that the things written about are to happen SOON. And again - soon is NOT 2000 rounded years.
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.

That basic line is repeated in the last chapter (22) as well: 6 The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.

And it also says: 12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
Okay
With regard to schemata, they never give you "the answers" ... they are structures which do not contain information about particular entities, instances or events, but rather about their general form. So - yes, "the Catholic Church" (which was the only connection I had to Christianity in the mid-50s) was "wrong." I just had to figure out what that "wrong" was ... welcome to constructivism, the teaching method that makes YOU do all the work.
Okay. So you've been at this for decades. Over time all these schemata are supposed to add-up to something. What have they added-up to in your view? Or was that it?
 
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Onlychild

Skilled Investigator
Okay. So you've been at this for decades. Over time all these schemata are supposed to add-up to something. What have they added-up to in your view? Or was that it?
No, that was only one part of the picture ... a part that shows where people are with regard to what we are supposed to know.

The question boils down to: What is this "end times" picture all about? There's a better view in the approach of, for instance, the Hopi ... who believe this is the end of the fourth world. The Aztec had a similar view, and were looking for the end of the fifth world. The idea is, this event could be - repetitious - even though the religious "explanations" claim otherwise.

Just to keep this short, and via one experience I had back in 2006, it seems the direction I was going was right, and it was a recurring event ... Dr Paul LaViolette's galactic superwave. This picture boils down to a single line I use: "Once upon a time we knew what we were supposed to know - and then - we lost the information." How did we lose it? Non-empathic / antisocial religious control that began back about C 13,000 BC when the last major event hit, and we "reacted" to the cosmic ray bombardment with - psychological problems. If you've even noticed, "MEN" were at the core of control for thousands of years. Oddly, MEN have a different microglia than woman, and, woman are basically protected. There was an attempt at a shutdown of these controlling people between about 7200 - 8000 BC - but - it didn't work. C 3300 BC we were hit by a "minor" superwave event, and oddly, Egypt and Sumer popped up and "control" went to phase two.

During all of this time, slowly, everything we were supposed to know - vanished. The only reason this subject kicked up about the middle of the first millennium BC with the Zoroastrians, was that the magnetic pole slipped down over Babylon and Assyria, and they saw aurora. If you ever look at the studies done on the interpretations of these aurora, it gets pretty easy to see how something they knew about - would suddenly become a reality.

The bottom line simply boils down to - there's an event coming. Oddly, the galactic center has been quite active, but, everything being said about it - vanished.

That's about as basic an explanation as I can give you. I'll be back tomorrow ... nite nite
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
No, that was only one part of the picture ... a part that shows where people are with regard to what we are supposed to know.

The question boils down to: What is this "end times" picture all about? There's a better view in the approach of, for instance, the Hopi ... who believe this is the end of the fourth world. The Aztec had a similar view, and were looking for the end of the fifth world. The idea is, this event could be - repetitious - even though the religious "explanations" claim otherwise.

Just to keep this short, and via one experience I had back in 2006, it seems the direction I was going was right, and it was a recurring event ... Dr Paul LaViolette's galactic superwave. This picture boils down to a single line I use: "Once upon a time we knew what we were supposed to know - and then - we lost the information." How did we lose it? Non-empathic / antisocial religious control that began back about C 13,000 BC when the last major event hit, and we "reacted" to the cosmic ray bombardment with - psychological problems. If you've even noticed, "MEN" were at the core of control for thousands of years. Oddly, MEN have a different microglia than woman, and, woman are basically protected. There was an attempt at a shutdown of these controlling people between about 7200 - 8000 BC - but - it didn't work. C 3300 BC we were hit by a "minor" superwave event, and oddly, Egypt and Sumer popped up and "control" went to phase two.

During all of this time, slowly, everything we were supposed to know - vanished. The only reason this subject kicked up about the middle of the first millennium BC with the Zoroastrians, was that the magnetic pole slipped down over Babylon and Assyria, and they saw aurora. If you ever look at the studies done on the interpretations of these aurora, it gets pretty easy to see how something they knew about - would suddenly become a reality.

The bottom line simply boils down to - there's an event coming. Oddly, the galactic center has been quite active, but, everything being said about it - vanished.

That's about as basic an explanation as I can give you. I'll be back tomorrow ... nite nite
LaViolette's theories are presently considered fringe science, so there might be something to them, but how much should be taken seriously is another matter. Right now I suspect he's got the kind of mind that creates meaning in complex relationships that doesn't necessarily correspond to objective reality. Like in A Beautiful Mind. But then again some of it might be worthy of serious investigation. Interesting stuff either way.
 

Onlychild

Skilled Investigator
LaViolette's theories are presently considered fringe science, so there might be something to them, but how much should be taken seriously is another matter. Right now I suspect he's got the kind of mind that creates meaning in complex relationships that doesn't necessarily correspond to objective reality. Like in A Beautiful Mind. But then again some of it might be worthy of serious investigation. Interesting stuff either way.
Well the "problems" in all this keep piling up. One problem is a subject we call the paranormal, and another is what we call the ET / UFO subject. Simply put - it's been the paranormal subject that has screwed-up the ET subject.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Well the "problems" in all this keep piling up. One problem is a subject we call the paranormal, and another is what we call the ET / UFO subject. Simply put - it's been the paranormal subject that has screwed-up the ET subject.
Yes. The Paranormal is the slippery slope between the unexplained and the supernatural. Yet, some of the connections cannot be ignored. The only way I've been able to reconcile them, is that assuming the phenomena that remains unexplained has an objectively real cause, it is intentionally meant to deceive and confuse, not necessarily for nefarious reasons, but more like the reason we might put a rat in a maze.
 

Onlychild

Skilled Investigator
I define the paranormal via the psychological factor and language usage (just English). The overall picture seems to imply that after death we are supposed to "go somewhere." The basic picture regarding "deceive and confuse" is exactly the same picture we experience here via non-empathic control. The implication is that if you have a "defect" and have lived your life like a moron, you get "locked out" of wherever it is we are supposed to go. They "come from here" - and so - they "remain here."

There also is a conundrum regarding "ancient" spirits, as it seems what IS here is MAYBE only a couple of centuries old. There are no "ancient" spirits here. Is there a limit to their existence? Or, did they "get it" and moved on?
 

Onlychild

Skilled Investigator
We're going to be in a lot of trouble when this hits here. The EMP and gravity wave alone are going to kick our butts.
And too, one has to wonder about the 400+ nuclear power plants we have running ... are they going to make it?
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
I define the paranormal via the psychological factor and language usage (just English). The overall picture seems to imply that after death we are supposed to "go somewhere."
I'm one of those who is of the view that after death it's not so much the case that "we" go somewhere, but that there is no "we" anymore.
The basic picture regarding "deceive and confuse" is exactly the same picture we experience here via non-empathic control.
Who is being deceived by what or whom in this scenario?
The implication is that if you have a "defect" and have lived your life like a moron, you get "locked out" of wherever it is we are supposed to go.
Right, And every version of "wherever it is we are supposed to go" seems to have it's own version of what qualifies as "behaving like a moron". This reminds me of the Saga of Biorn. Time for a re-post:

Saga Of Biorn


They "come from here" - and so - they "remain here."
Not clear again on who you mean by "they"?
There also is a conundrum regarding "ancient" spirits, as it seems what IS here is MAYBE only a couple of centuries old. There are no "ancient" spirits here. Is there a limit to their existence? Or, did they "get it" and moved on?
I'm not one of those who believes there are such a thing as discarnate "spirits" of the deceased. Or is that sort of what you were trying to suggest with your example?
 

Onlychild

Skilled Investigator
I'm one of those who is of the view that after death it's not so much the case that "we" go somewhere, but that there is no "we" anymore.
That's fine ... everyone needs to make up their own mind based on their own data.


Who is being deceived by what or whom in this scenario?
The personality pictures between humans and spirits / ghosts - whatever you want to call them, are identical.


Right, And every version of "wherever it is we are supposed to go" seems to have it's own version of what qualifies as "behaving like a moron". This reminds me of the Saga of Biorn. Time for a re-post:
That has been the product of the non-empathic human religious hierarchy for millennia. Mine approach is based on the foundational picture, for which we have no descriptive data, but is there.


Not clear again on who you mean by "they"?
The living ... when they die their exact personality traits go with them.

I'm not one of those who believes there are such a thing as discarnate "spirits" of the deceased. Or is that sort of what you were trying to suggest with your example?
One of the problems with this subject is that people prefer to use other people's experiences as hard data ... this way they can say anything they want regarding whether or not it all exists. You can't do that because technically, you have no idea what went on with them. You weren't there, and, they could be lying to you.

In order to get hard data you need to investigate this subject yourself. I did - and it works very well. I will also tell you this - what people say regarding "be careful when you 'open the door' ... you never know who's going to walk in" is true. I did my own research on this - and, stuff went on I never expected.

This subject IS real ... our problem only revolves around not having proper explanations.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
That's fine ... everyone needs to make up their own mind based on their own data.
I prefer to go with the most reasonable explanation based on a combination of evidence and critical thinking. It doesn't have to be my evidence. It just needs to be reliable.
The living ... when they die their exact personality traits go with them.
It's not possible for personality to "go anywhere" when a person dies. All that can happen it that it shuts down. It is possible that it might be reproducible someplace else, in which case we'd just be dealing with a copy. That copy might even think it's the same person, but logically, It can't be. Why? For starters, personality is driven by biology, particularly biochemistry. This is scientifically proven beyond any reasonable doubt. So what takes over for all the biochemistry that regulates our personality after there is no biochemistry left because all that's left of it are ashes?
One of the problems with this subject is that people prefer to use other people's experiences as hard data ... this way they can say anything they want regarding whether or not it all exists. You can't do that because technically, you have no idea what went on with them. You weren't there, and, they could be lying to you.
Firsthand experience is very valuable. However how we interpret those experiences may or may not be accurate. We can fool ourselves into believing things easier than someone else can, and there's lots that can be learned from other people.
In order to get hard data you need to investigate this subject yourself. I did - and it works very well.
I'm sure you're not alone.
I will also tell you this - what people say regarding "be careful when you 'open the door' ... you never know who's going to walk in" is true. I did my own research on this - and, stuff went on I never expected.
That can happen.
This subject IS real ... our problem only revolves around not having proper explanations.
Sure the "subject" is real. However the claims the subject makes may not be true, even if the experiencers believe they are.
 
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Onlychild

Skilled Investigator
I prefer to go with the most reasonable explanation based on a combination of evidence and critical thinking. It doesn't have to be my evidence. It just needs to be reliable.
I've listened to other information - but when I decided to go into this myself, it added one missing point - it was REAL.


It's not possible for personality to "go anywhere" when a person dies. All that can happen it that it shuts down. It is possible that it might be reproducible someplace else, in which case we'd just be dealing with a copy. That copy might even think it's the same person, but logically, It can't be. Why? For starters, personality is driven by biology, particularly biochemistry. This is scientifically proven beyond any reasonable doubt. So what takes over for all the biochemistry that regulates our personality after there is no biochemistry left because all that's left of it are ashes?
That's the conundrum ... it does "go on." How this works is beyond me - but it does.


Firsthand experience is very valuable. However how we interpret those experiences may or may not be accurate. We can fool ourselves into believing things easier than someone else can, and there's lots that can be learned from other people.
The direction I went started very simply ... in a sound controlled apartment (I turned off everything that would make noise and the windows were closed) I did EVPs on my phone. I got responses that were identical to what "other people" got regarding what they sounded like, and, they were understandable. It also cost me my phone - it died and there was what looked to be a finger streak across the face of it. Whoever this was, also knew about a particular person in my life growing up, and had something to say about that person.

Can I definitively say this was "us?" No ... but along with all the other data floating around, the picture sure seems to be "us." Then things started happening that just added to my data pile. This "paranormal" picture is real ... the personalities are identical to "problem humans" we see everyday. That, and info gathered by other people seems to point in one direction ... it's us.



Sure the "subject" is real. However the claims the subject makes may not be true, even if the experiencers believe they are.
Yes - the claims can be wrong. We have no hard data to describe any of this, but according to some of it that I've seen, it sure looks like us. Even ancient ghost stories point in that direction.

The bottom line is - we'll find out when we get there ... or not LOL.
 

Randall

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
That's the conundrum ... it does "go on." How this works is beyond me - but it does.
There's a limited number of possibilities that might explain the phenomenon, but only one counts as actual continuity of personhood.

1. A person is real in every respect and literally doesn't die at all, body or mind. Result: Actual continuity ( immortality ).
2. A person's body and mind are backed-up in some fashion and on death are recreated elsewhere. Result: A copy.
3. A person's body and their material world is replaced by new ones leaving the original mind intact. Result: Another kind of copy.
4. Nothing is real in the way we think it is. Everything is some kind of generated construct. Result: We've been copies all along.
5. An external system kicks in on death to compensate for the loss of our bodies and preserve consciousness: Result: A life support system.

The option that fits the evidence best is number 3. because that is what literally happens to us and the world around us as we age. This being the case, even our own present state of existence is one in which the belief that we have been the same person from birth to death, is purely an illusion. Therefore if the afterlife is yet another illusion, it's as valid an illusion as the one we're in now.

Number 4. could hypothetically fit the situation, because if we've always been copies created by a vastly powerful machine for every new moment in time, then we've never been "real" to begin with, so anything the system wants to do that preserves our experience of being a copy is fair game.

The rest don't work because the elements of ourselves that are replaced during our normal lifespan are done by processes not innate to our original creation.

The bottom line is - we'll find out when we get there ... or not LOL.

Lately I've come to the conclusion that if it is the case that we're copies, then I should try to do better in this version of the world so that my afterlife copy has an easier time of it :D
 
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Onlychild

Skilled Investigator
I don't buy the "copy" scenario, and I'll tell you why. There's an experience aspect in NDEs where a person is on the operating table - and "dies." This individual is in the room as spirit, usually hovering over the table, watching everything that goes on. When the body is resuscitated this "spirit" goes back into the body. Later, they have a discussion with the doctors regarding everything they "saw" - and it's all verified.

So ... what went "back into the body?" A "copy?"

Whatever this "spirit" is, it's part of the physical construct. It was there at the time of conception, in both sperm and egg, because these component parts were "built" by the mother and father's bodies, where this "spirit" aspect is just part of everything that goes on.

The bottom line for me is that every cell in our body has this "spirit" aspect as part of the overall picture, and just like the physical body functions as it does, and the brain functions as it does, this "spiritual" component is a cell by cell build of the original. This is why it functions as it does, and the "bad spirits" are just like they were in their physical life because it's them.

This wouldn't be a "copy" ... it would be a componant part continuation of the original build.
 

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