The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online

[wwkirk]

The UFO Trail: MUFON Chief Investigator Requests Ban on Roswell Slides Promoters

 

[Bob Watson]

I think dolan being banned is harsh dolan did apologize and is willing to put it behind him. Massaun needs to be forever banned

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[Constance]

BTW, I'm not following your last statement about the placard. 2 members of the RSRG asked for help from the RSRG and they declined?

Yes, that sentence is ambiguous. What Carey said is that two members of the RSRG were among those asked by him or one of his colleagues for help in the past in clarifying the placard and that these two (unnamed) individuals declined to assist them at that time.

 

[Constance]

Okay, a couple of things about that. I discussed this with Alejandro Rojas, who's been covering this closely and knows many of the players. As of about two weeks ago, Dew was off the radar, but briefly resurfaced to email Rojas. He mentioned that Don and Tom had not heard from him either, so I'm taking that weekly phone conference to more a thing of the past, not the present.

The impression I had from what Carey says in that interview is that biweekly conference calls have been ongoing (or at least are going on now). The interviewer had asked him about Dew's silence in the weeks since the event in Mexico City and Carey's reply was that he thinks Dew withdrew from internet interactions because he found the reactions (to him personally? or to the whole project?) to be overwhelming, more than he could handle. Carey seems to be a man who doesn't get upset easily or take his complaints to public venues, so that might account for his responses concerning Dew and his additional reference in that conversation to the 'Roswell slides' group being a 'team' (the implication being that the members of that group have established mutual trust over the years).

Secondly, during the mention of the phone conferences on that show, Carey said that Adam Dew was part of his "team." Who else is on that team? I'm not sure that has ever been disclosed.

I think, as indicated above, that he meant the group comprising Dew, Schmitt, himself, Mausson, and probably several consultants such as David Rudiak and Tony Bragalia.

BTW, my new article which discusses that show and a follow-up interview:
Dr. Richard O’Connor on Putting Away the Roswell Slides

I'm about to read it. I forgot to mention in my comments above that the MUFON interviews in this podcast begin with an interview with Dr. O'Connor, who is an anaesthesiologist who participated for many years in surgeries conducted by Jesse Marcel's son (how he first became aware of details concerning the Roswell event).

 

[Constance]

I think dolan being banned is harsh dolan did apologize and is willing to put it behind him. Massaun needs to be forever banned.

I agree and I also think it would be absurd for MUFON to ban Carey and Schmitt from speaking at future MUFON conferences. I don't think 'apologies' from any of the ufo researchers involved should be a critical factor in present and future decisions to ban these individuals. It would be different if it could be proved that these people had collectively 'hoaxed' the 'Roswell slides' investigation. That has not been proved.

I also do not see Mausson as a 'hoaxer', though his general style in pursuing and presenting possible ufo and et cases to the public before completing adequate investigation is often damaging to the field in general.

 

[Last Laugh]

Yes, that sentence is ambiguous. What Carey said is that two members of the RSRG were among those asked by him or one of his colleagues for help in the past in clarifying the placard and that these two (unnamed) individuals declined to assist them at that time.

Ah, that's interesting. I wonder what the actual circumstances were. If they declined but planned to later debunk, then that's pretty shady. Hard to say based on what Carey says.

BTW, my new article which discusses that show and a follow-up interview:
Dr. Richard O’Connor on Putting Away the Roswell Slides

Good that Dr. O'Connor has come to his senses. He still needs an anatomy refresher, though .

Regarding my previous statement about cherry picking and confirmation bias, I just reread your post on Doble (here).
I had forgotten that he made the claim that the 'critter' was not from this planet and had possibly evolved from something like a gecko, based on the very low res blurry leaked image. He didn't even see the actual images and was making that statement. I wonder how closely he actually examined the high res photos. After all, he claimed that the mummy had no clavicles, though everyone can see that the clavicle area is covered with a blanket. IMO he easily could have come to this conclusion without having photoshopped images.

 

[Burnt State]

I suppose any reasonable scientist would recognize that a mummified child is almost identical to the evolution of an alien gecko. So by all means this continued support for what Jaime touted out as science and that Richard Dolan innocently asked, "Who am I to question science?" should continue to have credit be given. After all, who needs objective truths any more as we live in the post-modern era of acceptable contradictions. What's reason good for anyway? Look at how those evangelical right wing Christians have managed to convince people that climate change is bunk and Ayn Rand is still hip.

As much as i'm a fan of irrational thought, dream logic and creative impulses I still have room for naming the carnivalesque when I see it. I think the slide circus is 50% idiocy & hope plus another 50% of deception & greed. Looking for more "perhaps's" only slows down a critical approach to the subject by not defining nor expecting the higher standards possible. It's really not more complicated than what the placard makes it out to be.

It also does not require banning, as ufology does not care, as this is not ufology; it's marketing and promotion. That's what Linda, Whitley and Jaime do now. They are employed as promoters. Ufologists are mostly broke and/or all have day jobs, except for those secret folk who work for hypothetical crash retrieval teams & certified Alien Hunters. The most ufology at work here had a skeptical approach, and was also clandestine up to a point. Why Wingfield has not identified the RSRG as disinformation government agents is puzzling as far as how the post-operative analysis has played out.

 

[Constance]

Ah, that's interesting. I wonder what the actual circumstances were. If they declined but planned to later debunk, then that's pretty shady. Hard to say based on what Carey says.

Yes it is, and it sounds very much like that's what happened. One would hope that, in the interests of increasing 'transparency' in the field, these two individuals would now come forward and explain their refusal to assist the slides research team during their investigation.

What's equalling damning here is that prior refusals to help clarify the writing on the placard belie the claim made by the RSRG that Carey and Schmitt erred by not consulting others in the field during their investigation. In fact, they did, but it seems that they did not receive any help from their ostensible 'colleagues'.

 

[IsaacKoi]

What Carey said is that two members of the RSRG were among those asked by him or one of his colleagues for help in the past in clarifying the placard and that these two (unnamed) individuals declined to assist them at that time.

Hi Constance,

Your report of that statement is being used in subsequent comments to question whether some RSRG members acted in a "shady" way - but I think the ENTIRE allegation is based on a misreporting of what Carey ACTUALLY said.

So, can you please give the time code of when Carey allegedly said that "two members of the RSRG" declined to assist him? In case it helps avoid any misunderstandings I think the actual discussion is in Erica Lukes interview at 35 minutes 40 seconds and 51 minutes 10. In the relevant comments, what Carey actually says is that two of the people that WORKED WITH HIM are now "among our critics", commenting that those individuals had "jumped ship" and are now on the other side. The relevant "critics" are of course NOT limited to the RSRG. As you may know from hearing Maussan and others, they are annoyed at (in particular) David Rudiak having independently confirmed the deblurring of the placard. (David Rudiak had previously been sent a copy of the placard by the Carey team but had not deblurred it at that time).

David Rudiak and others that had been asked to deblur the placard by Maussan and others are obviously NOT members of the RSRG.

I just want to avoid baseless allegations starting up against unnamed members of the RSRG merely because of an inaccurate statement of what Carey ACTUALLY said in the podcast (which anyone can listen to, but the above comments suggest some people have not done).

 

[Constance]

. . . can you please give the time code of when Carey allegedly said that "two members of the RSRG" declined to assist him? In case it helps avoid any misunderstandings I think the actual discussion is in Erica Lukes interview at 35 minutes 40 seconds and 51 minutes 10. In the relevant comments, what Carey actually says is that two of the people that WORKED WITH HIM are now "among our critics", commenting that those individuals had "jumped ship" and are now on the other side. The relevant "critics" are of course NOT limited to the RSRG. As you may know from hearing Maussan and others, they are annoyed at (in particular) David Rudiak having independently confirmed the deblurring of the placard. (David Rudiak had previously been sent a copy of the placard by the Carey team but had not deblurred it at that time).

David Rudiak and others that had been asked to deblur the placard by Maussan and others are obviously NOT members of the RSRG.

I just want to avoid baseless allegations starting up against unnamed members of the RSRG merely because of an inaccurate statement of what Carey ACTUALLY said in the podcast (which anyone can listen to, but the above comments suggest some people have not done).

I understand your concerns. I'll go back and locate a time-stamp for what I thought Carey was saying. I might have misinterpreted it.

 

[Constance]

@IsaacKoi, I'm having trouble trying to re-play the podcast today. Last night when I registered at the site there was no problem. Today, however, I'm being directed to an app called 'Radio Rage', and my Firefox browser refuses to download it. Can you post the direct link to the program?

 

[Constance]

Or perhaps someone else can link here a clip from the relevant points in the interview that Isaac identified? @Han seems to be technically skilled and if he's here today perhaps he can help.

 

[Sentry]

When Carey said the two placard guys are now "among our critics," he was trying to avoid saying the names Anthony Bragalia and David Rudiak. The remark, "among our critics," also demonstrates his "if you are not with, me you are against me" tribal thinking.

But to be clear, Bragalia and Rudiak are not associated with the RSRG, were not in the past, and I feel confident in stating the future is out, too.

 

[Constance]

Your direct link to the podcast in your blog enabled me to listen again just now to the statements made by Carey at the points indicated by @IsaacKoi, and I see that you're both correct in your interpretation of what Carey was saying. I apologize for my misinterpretation and hope that it did not mislead anyone.

I also agree with your comment concerning Carey's overreaction to what Rudiak and Bragalia have written since the de-blurring of the placard. I did not see their postings at the Randle site and elsewhere as hostile attacks on Carey and Schmitt, but Carey clearly did and still does. I think that's another mistake.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

I like Dave Rudiak. Despite all the crap he takes from dipshits he still looks at each case thoroughly.

 

[Sue]

The most amazing thing to me is that this topic has lasted 67 pages.

Apparently you've never visited the Art Bell Quits thread at bellgab. Don't.

 

[uforadio]

[Sent this morning:]

"Jaime:

Hola:
Christopher O'Brien here: we both spoke last November at the NJ Paranormal Forum. I am co-host of the very popular USA radio/Internet show, the Paracast. Gene Sternberg and I would love to have you as a guest on the program. I'm surprised that we've never had you on the show! We tape ahead of time, so we would be able to work around your busy schedule. Please let us know what time frame would work best for you...

Muchos gracias
Chris"

Jamie was never on although I do recall that David Biedny has made several references in early Paracast years that he was invited several times at the time but no effect.


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[storge]

Hmm, since I last posted Constance has come out in favor of misleading outsiders regarding the actual location and facts in the Roswell case. So much for his/her defense of Dolan. I am disappoint.

Regarding Eisenhower, I made a mistake earlier, his SON was married in summer of 47, whereas he was married way back in 1916 or something. My notion was he was SAC at SHAPE as part of the occupying force in Germany in 47, not really in the USA much, but I might be totally wrong on that. Ike and his VP Dick Nixon and Atoms for Peace and all that bleeds into the revolution in Cuba and Dulles's defeat at the Bay of Pigs by Fidel personally on site to ensure a military victory for the Cuban people, while Harriman was dispatched to Viet Nam and promptly had the Catholic Diem brothers assassinated against JFK's wishes.

As Truman told Moseley: I've never seen a purple cow, I hope to never see one, but I can tell you anyhow, I'd rather see than be one. That's a Doris Day song btw, no copyright because she stole the lyrics, available on archive.org

Mr. Randall, send me a Roswell Dream-Team
Make them the best that I've ever seen...

This whole episode has been pure phantasy, but the cool part, and the reason we haven't stopped talking about it yet, is that it is THE ONLY THING that has happened in Ufoology for several years now. Amen.

 

[Constance]

Mea culpa.

But I thought I'd already admitted that.

 

[George Wingfield]

Why Wingfield has not identified the RSRG as disinformation government agents is puzzling as far as how the post-operative analysis has played out.

I really don’t have time for more of this Roswell Slides nonsense but I see that Burnt State has made the absurd suggestion that he does not see “why Wingfield has not identified the RSRG as disinformation government agents is puzzling”. At no time have I ever suggested that the hoaxers --or indeed the good folk who constitute the RSRG-- were connected with government disinformation, either British or American. What I do see as puzzling is that anyone, whether a Roswell Believer or a Roswell Skeptic, could have failed to see that this whole thing was a hoax in the first place or could have placed any credence in the ridiculous Hilda Ray/Mamie Eisenhower/ “private viewing of dead alien” background story.

I understand that the RSRG were mostly Roswell Skeptics who –with every reason—obviously knew that whatever the slides depicted, it was NOT a genuine “Roswell Alien”. Therefore it had to be a hoax of some kind and most people assumed that Maussan was behind the hoax and had probably commissioned it himself. It is now plain that Maussan was a victim of this hoax rather than its perpetrator. So we have to ask whether there is anyone left who still does not recognize that this was a carefully planned and executed hoax --apart, that is from the hoaxers themselves some of whom have been active on this forum and Kevin Randle’s ‘Different Perspective’ under various false identities trying to cover their tracks and promote the false idea that this was nothing more than a misidentified mummy all along.

Although one of the hoaxers, Philip Mantle, was previously using his own name he is now less visible and uses a different identity on this forum. He was once named as a member of RSRG but Paul Kimball denies that he ever was one. It was Mantle who lied to me that John Lundberg and Rob Irving were not involved in Ray Santilli’s Alien Autopsy scam of 1995 --which of course they were.

Quite apart from Philip Mantle one should probably look carefully at the totally extraordinary role in the Roswell Slides saga played by Anthony Bragalia (false identity, I’m told). In the lead up to Jaime Maussan’s Cinco de Mayo extravaganza he was, it seems, one of the leading advocates that this was a “genuine Roswell Alien” and that the BeWitness event would change the world. He was billed as the “world’s leading UFO expert” and a “world famous researcher”. Soon after the Mexico City debacle Bragalia withdrew from this assertion and --in one of the most remarkable volte-faces of all time-- insisted that the dead alien was actually a mummified child. One could easily be forgiven for thinking that this person was also part of the hoax and was playing a role that had been specially scripted for him by John Lundberg in his forthcoming (?) film production about the Roswell Slides.