The Rejection of Big Brother the Space Alien

[PararealitySaint]

Youve stated many times you think what we see is demonic in nature.
The bible which you have stated is "complete" makes no mention of other life on other planets.

And again you claim as absolute fact the lord god created us, but this is not falsifiable......

Funny how you have two different standards for determining whats real and whats not.

you are not only being dishonest with us, you are being dishonest with yourself.

If as youve stated you think its demonic in nature, then you clearly subscribe to the satanic deception scenario, and as such its your duty as a christian to try and "save" the sinners from themselves, ie falling for satans trap.

Thats your motivation here, have the honesty to admit it

Mike, I am sorry to say this man, but you have to do a little growing up and stop looking at everything so topically all the time.

I have stated to you and to everyone who required an answer as to my personal religious views that I "BELIEVE" that just because The Word of The Lord makes no mention of Aliens, doesn't mean there aren't any. The Bible makes no mention of digital readout displays, but there are those today.

I have never been a proponent of judging to the extent that I have stated others are definitely false, only that I "BELIEVE" I am right in my considerations.

The key is I admit I could be wrong.....I can admit I don't have all the answers. I can also do this without having to dismiss others or force my feelings on others. I can do this because I am allowed "FAITH" as an answer.

My standards fit in my theories and my answers, not necessarily in others.

"The Satanic Deception Scenario".....LOL! Placing things in neat little corner boxes and containing their meaning within privy little titles, doesn't change my feelings, it only proves how close minded your unwillingness is to read what I state and what I feel. I have never stated the S.D.S. theory is the only answer....quite the contrary, I have always concluded that I "FEEL" it could be the answer, but then again, without the proper evidence or proof as to what is causing the phenomena, NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE.

Lastly, all of us will find out one day the real truth.

I am just happy to know I don't have to wait that long.

 

[mike]

Again you cant see the blatent hypocrisy of your words

NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE.

Lastly, all of us will find out one day the real truth.

I am just happy to know I don't have to wait that long

You state no one knows, and in the same breath state you know......

LOL

To be what they alone believe is warranted as the primary causality in spite of every other possibility.

They take the "know it all" approach to replying to any and all posts

Lastly, all of us will find out one day the real truth.

I am just happy to know I don't have to wait that long

Hilarious, just hilarious

They take the "know it all" approach to replying to any and all posts

just that they could care less about our little marble

And you "know" this for a fact ..........

You are happy to endulge in the very behaviour you object to....... do as i say, but not as i do

Hypocrite

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Mike, please be careful not to take quotes out of context like you did with the Degrasse Tyson quote. He's on record saying that he does not think any aliens are visiting the Earth, which is what the ETH is. He does, like most scientists, believe that there is the possibility that there is intelligent life out there. Nowhere will you find him saying that extra-terrestrials are visiting us though. Okay?

Again, Mike and Pararealitysaint are arguing two points which can not be proven, so just give it up. This circular argument has taken over so many posts that I have a hypothesis that many forum members are getting fed up of it.
You guys can keep arguing all you want but it'll mostly be between the two of you since most people here realize that these are all just ideas that are being throw out there. None of them can stick scientifically for now. At least not like relativity or evolution.

 

[PararealitySaint]

Pararealitysaint are arguing two points which can not be proven, so just give it up. This circular argument has taken over so many posts that I have a hypothesis that many forum members are getting fed up of it.
You guys can keep arguing all you want but it'll mostly be between the two of you since most people here realize that these are all just ideas that are being throw out there. None of them can stick scientifically for now. At least not like relativity or evolution.

Angelo,

Why do you persist in including my input where Mike is concerned? I only reply to his constant berating, and this I would expect anyone to do, who is continuously told what he believes in, which in and of itself is exactly the opposite of the very same.

I am told I am some form of religious zealot just because I refuse to accept "Big Brother The Space Alien" as he and his side kick Trajanus continue to force down people's throats.

If you wish me to cease from replying to these outright lies, perhaps it would be best to read my past posts and then his, and when you do, ban him from this forum for badgering with no relative basis for doing so, other than a contradiction in what I call "theory" and he spews forth as "fact"!

Only then would you be fairly judging what you seem to instead force my reputation to be a part of.

I am sorry if these posts seem repetitive of me, but I do not believe it is right for someone to be allowed to "bully" their way into what they then utilize as the facade of truth. If I did allow this, wouldn't I be as guilty as they are wrong?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I am sorry if these posts seem repetitive of me, but I do not believe it is right for someone to be allowed to "bully" their way into what they then utilize as the facade of truth. If I did allow this, wouldn't I be as guilty as they are wrong?

Do as Jesus would do and turn the other cheek.
Mike is far from being banned.
I just find that you are both arguing in circles and it is getting boring. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks so.

 

[tyder001]

If I may give a tenative opinion here I will say this. Fair or not I won't respond after giving this opinion simply because I do agree with Angel that it is getting somewhat out of hand. I think Saint was very honest about his faith. He simply stated that he didn't seperate his belife or non belief from his faith. However, (imo) he then attemtped to say why he didn't think the E.T. answer was scientificaly sound. But, due to the distaste that some here have for religion in general and Christian fundis in particular the drums started beating about religion instead of the facts or the opinions he presented. He would have been (imo) better off not to even have brought up the biblical angle but then again he would have been less honest if he had not done so. Mike is also a true believer but shades his absolute faith in space people in the guise of pseudo science. While I assume that Saint knows that Christianity or any other religion is not a scientifically plausable test tube experience (imo) The thing is many on here including Angel have more in common with Saint on the E.T. subject than they do with Mike. But, can't get around the "bible" thang with which they have absolutely nothing in common or no respect for. I have asked Trajanus "are you a Ralien?" on more than one occassion with no answer. I have to conclude that he indeed does have a vested "interest" in the E.T. being the correct answer. Nuts and bolts have to be the anwer for both Mike and Trajanus. I can accept that just as I accept that demons and angels have to be the answer for Saint. I would recommend a seperate thread for the "religious" angle of the u.f.o. experience. I for one have little interest in such a thread but it would at least be an honest thread. I truly hope Mike and Trajanus can understand this is not a personal attack. Neither do I agree with Saint that the bible is the infallible word of God (although I am now going back through it with an open mind since it is such a vital part of my own upbringing and search for meaning.) But, I don't discuss religion as dogma since I honestly don't have any such "dogma." I also, have no vested interest in the nuts and bolts explanation of the u.f.o. pro or con. I simply enjoy "honest" back and forth. So, I propose that we all give a little respect. For instance Mike might (only if he wants to) stop trashing talking somebody else's heart felt hope and belifes about Diety. Saint might (if he wants to) Stop talking about Mikey and Mork from Ork (i"ll knock off the spaceman spiff stuff.) Then maybe we can get this thread back to a honest adult conversation. Or maybe not. It's up to the folks involved. But, don't blame Angel if he does decide to cut the crap if the dialog continues to be circular. Peace.

 

[mike]

Again i think my point has been lost on some.

Ive never said i know for a fact the ETH is true, i cant be labeled a true beliver in that regard.
"I dont know" are the three most useful words i have here.
Ive made it clear many times i favour on the balance of probability the ETH as an explanation for all the silver disk shaped objects that people have reported, and have tracked on radar
But i would never go so far as to state as absolute fact that this is what it is

What ive pointed out is the clear hypocrisy of the saint in hiding behind phrases like we dont know what it is, while at the same time telling us over and over what it isnt......

the very thing he accuses those who favour an ETH explanation

To be what they alone believe is warranted as the primary causality in spite of every other possibility.

They take the "know it all" approach to replying to any and all posts

He himself indulges in, insisting if they do exist they would have no interest in us, how could he "know" that ?

if you compare this statement

Lastly, all of us will find out one day the real truth.

I am just happy to know I don't have to wait that long

with this

To be what they alone believe is warranted as the primary causality in spite of every other possibility.

They take the "know it all" approach to replying to any and all posts

You will see what i mean, this is not about trashing his faith, its about his hypocrisy, i didnt start the thread, a thread that again trys to insist on a fact, insisting what it isnt.

Constantly ramming "what it isnt" down our necks is the same as someone insisting what it is, and most of the ETH crowd here dont go that far, like me they are happy to discuss the possibilitys, nothing is set in stone.

The "know it all" approach the saint complains about, is in fact his approach, albeit done obliquely with a this is what it isnt mantra.

He claims " I only reply to his constant berating", but its he who started this thread, no one else. i didnt start a "rejection of the magic sky genie thread"

Starting a thread designed to deliberatly bait those here who want to discuss the ETH is not "replying", if anyone is trying to ram anything down anyones necks here, its the person who insists on telling us what it isnt, over and over and over again

 

[PararealitySaint]

I was purposely hesitant in replying to this latest attack by the "Raliens" and Mikey's latest judgment call in particular, inaccurate as it always is, because I'm thinking perhaps it's best to move on and overlook those who just don't get it and continue their spewing for attention anyway, as originally stated I would do.

Therefore, I will begin to do just that and extend my warmest thanks to those who have IM'ed with their personal feelings on the matter, many of which I am happy to inform were agreeable to my explanations for why they had to take place.

A reader need do nothing more than consciously review all the posts and responses I had made to those whom attacked my person, and within this obvious finality, understand how they "themselves" would have done just the same if placed in a likewise position. In fact, many stated they would have been, "all the more direct" in calling out Mike and Trajanus (The stepchildren of the Ralien cause) for the sadly misguided fools they presented themselves as being.

If anyone else is in need of explanation or insight into why it is I have taken the stand I have when it comes to the falsities of the E.T. or E.T.H. miscalculation, please do not hesitate to IM and I will respond in kind.

Thanks and see you out there.

 

[mike]

ROFL, did you look up how to win a flame war ?

How To Participate In An Internet Flame War

1. Tell your opponent that the argument is over, because it's degenerated into pointlessness.... doing so at the end of your post giving you the lengthy last word in it.
2. Predict the imminent death of the Internet. ("Film at 11!")
3. Call your opponent a Nazi.
4. Change the subject by pointing out all of your opponent's grammar and spelling mistakes.
5. Post some horribly vicious and insulting note about your opponent.... several minutes later, post a profuse apology, claiming that you'd intended to send the message privately to a friend.
6. a: Refer frequently to pretend hordes of lurking supporters, who have mailed you privately to express their agreement and gratitude.... but aren't willing to come out publicly and say anything. (See also here.)
   b: Accuse your opponent of trying to intimidate your hordes of supporters.... add indignantly that you "will not be silenced".
7. Attempt to impress/silence your opponent by discussing your professional credentials and experience related to the topic at hand, which clearly make your opinions better and more correct than anyone else's.... be vague about details if your credentials and experience aren't actually all that impressive. (Also known as "dueling resumes".)
8. Accuse your opponent of being overly sensitive, or suggest in a patronizing tone that they "must be having a bad day".
9. Claim that an insult or other rudeness was "just a joke", and suggest that your opponent has no sense of humor.
10. Claim that *everything* is a matter of opinion, that there are no such things as facts or truth.
11. a: Claim that facts are absolute.... that there's never any such thing as dispute or disagreement about a fact.
    b: Assume that everything you learned in college, no matter how many years ago nor how much a field has advanced in the meantime, is completely unchanged.
12. Redefine words to mean whatever you want them to mean. (Also known as the "Humpty Dumpty" defense.)
13. Refuse to look something up, if challenged to do so.... no need, surely your memory is perfect.
14. Ask your opponent to supply lengthy and detailed references for their every statement.
15. Claim that if something works for you/your spouse/your kid/your parent/your best friend/your boss/your hairdresser's first cousin's dog's veterinarian, it will always work for everyone.... and if it doesn't, it's because they're not doing it right.
16. Tell your opponent that you've traced their IP address, and if they don't let you win, you'll post their personal information in the public forum.

http://barb.velvet.com/humor/flaming.html

a: Refer frequently to pretend hordes of lurking supporters, who have mailed you privately to express their agreement and gratitude.... but aren't willing to come out publicly and say anything. (See also here.)

hilarious

To the tune of "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean":
The Lurkers support me in e-mail
They all think I'm great don't you know.
You posters just don't understand me
But soon you will reap what you sow.

Lurkers, lurkers, lurkers support me, you'll see, you'll see
Off in e-mail the lurkers support me, you'll see.
The lurkers support me in e-mail
"So why don't they post?" you all cry
They're scared of your hostile intentions
They just can't be as brave as I.
Lurkers, lurkers, lurkers support me, you'll see, you'll see
Off in e-mail the lurkers support me, you'll see.
One day I'll round up all my lurkers
We'll have a newsgroup of our own
Without all this flak from you morons
My lurkers will post round my throne. Lurkers, lurkers, lurkers support me, you'll see, you'll see
Off in e-mail the lurkers support me, you'll see.

Is that all youve got little man ?

Your mother did humanity a dis-service in having you, you know, you should have been an abortion..............

Sagan wrote frequently about religion and the relationship between religion and science, expressing his skepticism about the conventional conceptualization of God as a sapient being. For example:

Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Others—for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein—considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws.<SUP id=cite_ref-36 class=reference>[37]</SUP>
​

In another description of his view of God, Sagan emphatically writes:

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."<SUP id=cite_ref-37 class=reference>[38]</SUP>
​

You are a polyp on the anus of humanity little man.

An intellectual pygmy

PS your obviously a Nazi lolololololololol

 

[CapnG]

I can fix this easy. Saint, since you are clearly not open minded and in point of fact have specific biases, just change your forum title.

Problem solved.

 

[tyder001]

I can fix this easy. Saint, since you are clearly not open minded and in point of fact have specific biases, just change your forum title.

Problem solved.

Capn don't we all have bias? I do, you do, all God's chillun do. I don't see where Mike is covering himself with glory here either. However, the snarky reply's are being made by Mike and Saint and at times me and now you. Why don't we get back to the point of it before a mod has to shut this crap down? I suggest we start over. Now whut wuz this thread about? Oh yeah. u.f.o's and aliens and other stuff. I don't know if we are being visited by space aliens. I don't think so. I don't know if ufo occupants are the demons of the past. I do think that a race of beings no matter what their origin would have been viewed as angelic or demonic in the mind of the prevailing culture of the time. So, actually in some way Saint and Mike could both be right to a point. On the other hand I still think Trained Observer has a good point about military involvement. I have noticed on this board that we have some believers in the paranormal who are very polite and yet they get shouted down and cursed at and called idiots by the little pseudo intelletuals among us. We also have some very polite and civil skeptics like Angel and others who don't "believe" but don't 'YELL" at people either or call them names. We have come to a place where the paranormal always comes to.

1. There is NO proof that science or me or you can lay their hands on that PROVE the existence of people from outer space.
2. There is ample evidence over the span of time that humans and non human intellegence "appear" to have interacted with each other from time to time.
3. There may be intelligent life visiting us.
4. That life may be from another dimension or it may be a physical life form with a little different biological makeup.
5. Mankind is very,very capable of making the whole damn thing up and there might be nothing beyond the gray mass in your head.
6. If we are simply a by product of evolution then we as a species will thrive until we don't. End of story so why get all worked up trying to "convert" the ignorant.
7. God is beyond the politics and the religion and the small little "whims" of mankind and is not diminished or threatened by the little rants of folks on the "interewebs."
8. I honestly think the greatest "exploration" we have to make is behind our own eyes in the "space" we call our minds.
9. I'm an atheist (not really but play along) I don't need to convert you or anybody else because in the end you are nothing more than a chemical firing in a piece of matter that has no more "meaning" than a roach bug I just squashed on the floor.
10. I'm a fundi Christian (not really, see above) My God is angry and is sending his son and you will be thrown into a pit of fire and I will inhale and laugh at the smoke of your torment forever. I would "like" to convert you but if I don't it really doesn't matter. You are toast anyway and "We" Win.
11. I'm a Ralien (no way Jose) and a race of super scientific E.T's started with a bunch of apes and interceded in the natural evolutiary process and we are simply the products of that process. Our folks are on the way back and even here now. Prepare to be assismulated. Oh wait, that's the Borg. We won't go there with this post.
12. I'm a human being. An Amphibian if you will. Thought and intent. Love and hope. Chemicals and lust. Dirt and sand. Flesh and blood. I look at the cosmos and think "what does it mean?" I meditate and read and pray and cuss and fight and live and die. I hope my spirit is more than the chemical firings of a dying brain. But, I really don't know. I wake up in my skin everyday and when I don't then I'll either know my true nature or not be known at all. I might be a person who prays and tries to "find" God. I might be a person who has no need and no real concept of a god at all. I might study and think of myself as an educated person. But, the truth is we are all 'children" on this journey and what we "know" is very small compared to what we don't "know."

I think "personally" I choose number 12. Cause when ya look at all the others listed they seem kind of silly if taken in a literal sense. Of course I in no way am arrogant enough to even remotely think I have adequately described what it is to be a Christian, Atheist,Believer in u.f.o's or anybody else. I think we should all chill a little bit with the name calling and personal attacks. But that's just me.

Peace.

 

[CapnG]

12. I'm a human being. An Amphibian if you will. Thought and intent. Love and hope. Chemicals and lust. Dirt and sand. Flesh and blood. I look at the cosmos and think "what does it mean?" I meditate and read and pray and cuss and fight and live and die. I hope my spirit is more than the chemical firings of a dying brain. But, I really don't know. I wake up in my skin everyday and when I don't then I'll either know my true nature or not be known at all. I might be a person who prays and tries to "find" God. I might be a person who has no need and no real concept of a god at all. I might study and think of myself as an educated person. But, the truth is we are all 'children" on this journey and what we "know" is very small compared to what we don't "know."

 

[mike]

So, actually in some way Saint and Mike could both be right to a point

I disagree most strongly on this point.
If for example bronze age tribesmen were to somehow see Neil Armstrong in the suit he wore to walk on the moon, and were to conclude he was a "demon", where i would describe him as an astronaut,
We would not both be right.
In that example the bronze age description/label would be incorrect, a conclusion coming from a place of ignorance and superstition and i am of the firm mind the same applies with this topic

They cant be both demons and biological entities from another world, any more than Armstrong could be both a demon and an astronaut.

And lets be clear on another matter, this thread and its OP is not about discussing the topic of aliens and UFO's it is about heckling and ridiculing those "misguided fools" who dare to hold the opinion that there might be something of an extraterrestrial nature behind the vehicles seen by witness and radar the world over.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I was purposely hesitant in replying to this latest attack by the "Raliens" and Mikey's latest judgment call in particular, inaccurate as it always is, because I'm thinking perhaps it's best to move on and overlook those who just don't get it and continue their spewing for attention anyway, as originally stated I would do.

Therefore, I will begin to do just that and extend my warmest thanks to those who have IM'ed with their personal feelings on the matter, many of which I am happy to inform were agreeable to my explanations for why they had to take place.

A reader need do nothing more than consciously review all the posts and responses I had made to those whom attacked my person, and within this obvious finality, understand how they "themselves" would have done just the same if placed in a likewise position. In fact, many stated they would have been, "all the more direct" in calling out Mike and Trajanus (The stepchildren of the Ralien cause) for the sadly misguided fools they presented themselves as being.

If anyone else is in need of explanation or insight into why it is I have taken the stand I have when it comes to the falsities of the E.T. or E.T.H. miscalculation, please do not hesitate to IM and I will respond in kind.

Thanks and see you out there.

Saint,

First of all, calling people "raliens" is quite silly. Mike is far from that.
What you have is not the truth, but an opinion based on faith, and there's nothing wrong with that.
The problem is that you seem to think you know for a fact that the ETH is false. Personally I don't think there's any proof to take it beyond a hypothesis, but there's also nothing to tell me that it's false, you know, that whole falsifiability thing. For now, I'm pretty confident that aliens are not visiting the earth, but I'm also pretty confident that the stuff you believe in is just as unlikely.
So, just agree to disagree and stop with the childish arguing.