The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis : Fact and Fallacy

[Trajanus]

“why in the world would anyone conclude that an explanation entailing travel from another reality seems more likely than travel from another star?”

Right and furthermore, what "other realities" have ever been verified or are known to exist in the first place? The ETH is far and away the most parsimonious view.

I’ve considered this subject earnestly for over forty years, and I still think I’d panic if I actually encountered an alien being in person.

The fact that even those well acquainted with this subject may panic goes a long way toward explaining the coverup.

 

[Burnt State]

About the distance: it’s not really a fundamental problem. It’s a lack of imagination.

We could put a Voyager sized spacecraft in another star system if we waited a few thousand years for it to get there.

In a few hundred years, even still with chemical or nuclear power, we could put an artificially intelligent Voyager sized spacecraft in another star system in a few thousand years. One that can think for itself, solve for how to analyse it’s environment, use local materials to create more probes that are purpose built for their environment, then replicate itself and move on. Maybe they even take some frozen eggs to build humans from if the system is viable for them to live in.

Why we think that’s all that different from what people are seeing - at least conceptually - I have no idea.

As I've said many times before it makes way more sense to send off self replicating clouds of nanocluster probes to collect all the Intel you need from the entire universe. It's a million year project as read in an endophysics paper. I have no problem with that kind of eth thinking as it makes much more sense than sending biological organisms galavanting through space. Sounds like a silly waste of life. I like Eric Wargo's thinking in this as a possible psychology experiment unfolding around us via someone else's technology and how mortality and a more sustained aging life form would value life so much as to never jeopardize it.

But as Thomas pointed out those two cases that for me also make me think aliens from space as do a handful of others that really are so damn perplexing I think it's worth looking at them. While both suggest aliens, both have other elements to them that are more psycho-social in nature. The Seven Steps to Hello logo in Portage County suggests the theme of covert military involvement or some kind of delusion. Regardless, in the interview completed with Spaur right after it happened I find it to be highly compelling of the appearance of an alien technology here among us as corroborated by esteemed witnesses in the community. Still it has very perplexing elements to it, as does Emilcin with what appears to be real bona fide biological aliens eating food even as part of the experience but is equally nonsensical in what is perceived.

Still they remain very complicated stories with significant consequences for Spaur. While I get that it makes sense that these appeare to be aliens from space we still have little proof of it.

The other aspects which belong to the witness and storyteller are worth examining as maybe we learn more. I find the ETH has taught us little and I find it very difficult to believe biological life forms would risk themselves and anything post biological or with significant tech advancements as we are on the cusp of would not be sending us space ships like in a 1950's hollywood version of space travel. I think a lot of the imagery belongs to us. Much of it makes no visual sense when seen up close and others are slick magic morphing machines.

Portage County:

James Renner, It came from Ohio

Emilcin:

UFOVIA internacional

Fundacja Nautilus - Artykuły - UFO, EMILCIN I TAJEMNICZY DIABELSKI KAMIEŃ

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Human interpretations of what the so call unknown would do. ETH still holds elements as other theories your folks suggest until you have all the evidence it's all pure speculation. In that video
1. The unknown Lt ? Also can anyone see if US Servicemen Captain Holder was in that area at anytime?
2. Tyres burnt ?
3. "Transformer" Electromagnetic and is this similar to Mr Bob Lazar discussion in previous interviews with excellent research George Knapp?
4. Watch this video and comparisons of events. Activity of the unknown object prior to the sightings and actions of the eyewitness.

Just ignore the leading comments regarding use of "Aliens " during the interview . Rather just ask the eyewitness to tell their story in their own words . How does the interviewer know its aliens ?

 

[Trajanus]

As I've said many times before it makes way more sense to send off self replicating

I doubt the SR concept has ever been proven feasible.

clouds of nanocluster probes to collect all the Intel

ET must've collected intel initially but by now they've probably gone beyond that. They've probably long made use of the intel, and formulated a plan--exactly what is hard to say, but it would requite more than nanoprobes.

it makes much more sense than sending biological organisms galavanting through space.

UFO entities needn't be biological or entirely so, and in any case, considering the rarity of an inhabited world like ours, and a need for some kind of intervention, it would be worthwhile as well as rather easy (gravitational field propulsion) to get here.

Sounds like a silly waste of life. I like Eric Wargo's thinking in this as a possible psychology experiment unfolding around us via someone else's technology and how mortality and a more sustained aging life form would value life so much as to never jeopardize it.

It's quite possible the phenomenon is prepared to risk lives, as the Roswell incident suggests. There may have been no survivors in that case and perhaps in one or more others.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Human interpretations of what the so call unknown would do. ETH still holds elements as other theories your folks suggest until you have all the evidence it's all pure speculation. In that video
1. The unknown Lt ? Also can anyone see if US Servicemen Captain Holder was in that area at anytime?
2. Tyres burnt ?
3. "Transformer" Electromagnetic and is this similar to Mr Bob Lazar discussion in previous interviews with excellent research George Knapp?
4. Watch this video and comparisons of events. Activity of the unknown object prior to the sightings and actions of the eyewitness.

Just ignore the leading comments regarding use of "Aliens " during the interview . Rather just ask the eyewitness to tell their story in their own words . How does the interviewer know its aliens ?

Funny that you posted that video yesterday because last night I watched the same video on YouTube - that's what I fell asleep to. And of course because that was playing (and the video's that followed) I dreamt of UFO's lol.

 

[marduk]

As I've said many times before it makes way more sense to send off self replicating clouds of nanocluster probes to collect all the Intel you need from the entire universe. It's a million year project as read in an endophysics paper. I have no problem with that kind of eth thinking as it makes much more sense than sending biological organisms galavanting through space. Sounds like a silly waste of life. I like Eric Wargo's thinking in this as a possible psychology experiment unfolding around us via someone else's technology and how mortality and a more sustained aging life form would value life so much as to never jeopardize it.

But as Thomas pointed out those two cases that for me also make me think aliens from space as do a handful of others that really are so damn perplexing I think it's worth looking at them. While both suggest aliens, both have other elements to them that are more psycho-social in nature. The Seven Steps to Hello logo in Portage County suggests the theme of covert military involvement or some kind of delusion. Regardless, in the interview completed with Spaur right after it happened I find it to be highly compelling of the appearance of an alien technology here among us as corroborated by esteemed witnesses in the community. Still it has very perplexing elements to it, as does Emilcin with what appears to be real bona fide biological aliens eating food even as part of the experience but is equally nonsensical in what is perceived.

Still they remain very complicated stories with significant consequences for Spaur. While I get that it makes sense that these appeare to be aliens from space we still have little proof of it.

The other aspects which belong to the witness and storyteller are worth examining as maybe we learn more. I find the ETH has taught us little and I find it very difficult to believe biological life forms would risk themselves and anything post biological or with significant tech advancements as we are on the cusp of would not be sending us space ships like in a 1950's hollywood version of space travel. I think a lot of the imagery belongs to us. Much of it makes no visual sense when seen up close and others are slick magic morphing machines.

Portage County:

James Renner, It came from Ohio

Emilcin:

UFOVIA internacional

Fundacja Nautilus - Artykuły - UFO, EMILCIN I TAJEMNICZY DIABELSKI KAMIEŃ

It could kind of be both though right?

I’m thinking the machine probes could create life as replicas of the biological entities that sent it off in the first place. It’s not so hard after all - even for us it’s become more of an engineering problem than a scientific one.

Or it could create machine based faximiles of life - replicants if you will - that perhaps have some semblance to the biological originators of the probes but with none of the biological sensitivities. This could be why they don’t often use breathing or filtering apparatuses.

Or the entities could simply be avatars created for the probes convenience, and nothing more than something like the waldoes we use to handle nuclear waste while behind a safe lead shield.

 

[marduk]

I doubt the SR concept has ever been proven feasible.

I'm not sure why you think that.

ET must've collected intel initially but by now they've probably gone beyond that. They've probably long made use of the intel, and formulated a plan--exactly what is hard to say, but it would requite more than nanoprobes.

If the nano probes could talk to one another, they could form a vastly intelligent networked cloud. This makes a lot of sense because of redundancy. It's basically how life works, although it works chemically.

In fact, now that I think about it, this cloud could be present even inside our own bodies. That may be a causal factor in the 'telepathy' effects sometimes reported. This whole thing could be a misinterpretation. They could also alter our perception of what's happening, erase memories, make some people see some things and others see other things.

The 'aliens' could be right here in our very own bloodstream.

Hell, now that I really think about it, it's what I would do. Study the target entities from the inside out.

UFO entities needn't be biological or entirely so, and in any case, considering the rarity of an inhabited world like ours, and a need for some kind of intervention, it would be worthwhile as well as rather easy (gravitational field propulsion) to get here.

The whole point of the debate I think is that we could do it now, or very soon. It then becomes very plausible to think that life on other planets in the galaxy could do it as well. That's a factor of 1 on the parsimonious scale. No need for new physics or gravitational propulsion, which I very much doubt exists at all.

It's quite possible the phenomenon is prepared to risk lives, as the Roswell incident suggests. There may have been no survivors in that case and perhaps in one or more others.

If they're synthetic organisms, or avatars, it's possible if any bodies were recovered (which I doubt), they were never 'alive' in the sense that we understand it in the first place.

It may be like you or I losing a fingernail.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

ET came & studied us but they see things like "If you have a penis - you're allowed to go in the woman's room if you feel like your a woman" and other such nonsense and deem us an insane society on the brink of destruction. That's one of the reasons they don't land.

 

[Thomas R Morrison]

About the distance: it’s not really a fundamental problem. It’s a lack of imagination.

We could put a Voyager sized spacecraft in another star system if we waited a few thousand years for it to get there.

In a few hundred years, even still with chemical or nuclear power, we could put an artificially intelligent Voyager sized spacecraft in another star system in a few thousand years.

This is a good point, and it’s one that’s far too frequently overlooked: we could deliver a small probe to a nearby star system if we chose to do so.

Another point that’s often overlooked is that we can already accelerate matter to >99.99% the speed of light in particle accelerators around the world. So if we scale that capability up from a gold ion to a device that’s perhaps the size of a thimble, then we could hypothetically get a small probe to a nearby star in a matter of a few years.

Right and furthermore, what "other realities" have ever been verified or are known to exist in the first place?

An important point here is that physicists have made substantial efforts over the last couple of decades to detect any sign of a single extra spatial dimension, and failed. So it’s not simply a matter of an absence of evidence – we now have significant disproof for the existence of extra dimensions. The only place they have left to hide now, is if they’re wrapped up in little knots at subnuclear scales, which renders them useless for producing macroscopic “other realities” and such.

As I've said many times before it makes way more sense to send off self replicating clouds of nanocluster probes to collect all the Intel you need from the entire universe. It's a million year project as read in an endophysics paper.

Have you got a link to that paper? I don’t see how a cloud of nanoprobes could populate the observable universe in a million years without a metric propulsion system, and it’s hard to imagine that being achievable at such a small scale.

I’m also skeptical of the self-replicating probe idea: today’s most advanced technology requires a global network of specialized manufacturing facilities – putting all of that refining and manufacturing capacity into something the size of a dust mote just seems unrealistic to me.

I have no problem with that kind of eth thinking as it makes much more sense than sending biological organisms galavanting through space. Sounds like a silly waste of life. I like Eric Wargo's thinking in this as a possible psychology experiment unfolding around us via someone else's technology and how mortality and a more sustained aging life form would value life so much as to never jeopardize it.

It’s quite possible that most of the unexplained devices that we see in the sky are simply that: autonomous devices. But I don’t rule out biological travelers either – lots of human (including myself) would eagerly journey to distant stars; some things are worth risking your life. I would imagine that lots of denizens of other civilizations would feel the same way. And as marduk pointed out, we may be seeing synthetic organisms of some kind.

But as Thomas pointed out those two cases that for me also make me think aliens from space as do a handful of others that really are so damn perplexing I think it's worth looking at them. While both suggest aliens, both have other elements to them that are more psycho-social in nature. The Seven Steps to Hello logo in Portage County suggests the theme of covert military involvement or some kind of delusion. Regardless, in the interview completed with Spaur right after it happened I find it to be highly compelling of the appearance of an alien technology here among us as corroborated by esteemed witnesses in the community. Still it has very perplexing elements to it, as does Emilcin with what appears to be real bona fide biological aliens eating food even as part of the experience but is equally nonsensical in what is perceived.

I must’ve missed something – what part are you saying is nonsensical? That biological aliens eat food?

Still they remain very complicated stories with significant consequences for Spaur. While I get that it makes sense that these appeare to be aliens from space we still have little proof of it.

It’s true that we have very little proof. But it’s also important to weigh this against our capability for acquiring proof, which is also very little. So the limited body of evidence that we have tells us very little. It would be a different story altogether, for example, if we had access to the military radar network and interceptor craft armed with gun cameras and scientific instrumentation, and yet still failed to gather substantial evidence. But that’s not our situation, sadly.

The other aspects which belong to the witness and storyteller are worth examining as maybe we learn more. I find the ETH has taught us little and I find it very difficult to believe biological life forms would risk themselves and anything post biological or with significant tech advancements as we are on the cusp of would not be sending us space ships like in a 1950's hollywood version of space travel. I think a lot of the imagery belongs to us. Much of it makes no visual sense when seen up close and others are slick magic morphing machines.

As I’ve pointed out – a hypothesis doesn’t prove itself; that requires focused scientific investigation, which has never happened with this subject. So the fact that the ETH hasn’t solved the mystery yet, is meaningless. Let’s take a more prosaic example – we had no idea if Einstein's general theory of relativity was correct or not, until astronomers created the proper instrumentation to measure the deflection of starlight around the Sun during an eclipse. That observational experiment yielded proof of his theory. Without that kind of dedicated scientific effort, we’d still be debating whether gravity is a force, or if it’s the curvature of spacetime as Einstein described in his theory. Having the right idea is worthless if nobody performs the experiments and observations required to test it – and that’s the position that we’re in right now: nobody is conducting a valid scientific investigation into the ufo phenomenon, and our understanding of it can’t progress until that happens.

Also, we send probes to other planets all the time, and for good reasons, so the idea of other species sending probes here is not a Hollywood concept, it’s good scientific methodology. And if we had the kind of propulsion mechanism that these devices employ, we’d be sending people to other planets too, so there’s nothing absurd about the use of astronauts for exploration (or even tourists taking an interplanetary vacation, for that matter).

As for the very rare instances of “morphing machines,” I’ve already explained that material physicists are currently experimenting with engineering the quantum wavefunction of macroscopic material objects to produce new physical properties. Someday we’ll be creating machines that can change size and shape, and perhaps even break up into smaller objects that can merge back together. So it’s not a stretch to imagine that more advanced civilizations already employ these kinds of capabilities.

ET must've collected intel initially but by now they've probably gone beyond that. They've probably long made use of the intel, and formulated a plan--exactly what is hard to say, but it would requite more than nanoprobes.

Yeah the whole “nano-mania” thing seems rather sensationalistic and “buzz-wordy” to me. There are lots of foreseeable advantages to nanotech, but I don’t see how interstellar exploration is one of them. Macroscopic devices will always have their uses in any technological civilization, imo, and spaceflight seems like one of them.

But logic suggests that if one advanced civilization has visited our planet, then others have as well. So I don't think we're dealing with a single alien civilization sending probes/craft to Earth; I think we're probably being visited by many intelligent species, each with its own agenda(s). What's very interesting to me, though, is that they all seem to employ the same propulsion principle, because very different craft exhibit the same sorts of exotic performance characteristics. So that's something that we'll be able to replicate one day.

If the nano probes could talk to one another, they could form a vastly intelligent networked cloud. This makes a lot of sense because of redundancy. It's basically how life works, although it works chemically.

Kinda sorta. Cells are bound together with organic life though. So it makes more sense to compare a machine made of circuit boards (which employ silicone nanotech) to a living organism. I don’t see any advantage to a “cloud of nanites” over a solid device that exploits molecular engineering at the component level.

In fact, now that I think about it, this cloud could be present even inside our own bodies. That may be a causal factor in the 'telepathy' effects sometimes reported. This whole thing could be a misinterpretation. They could also alter our perception of what's happening, erase memories, make some people see some things and others see other things.

The 'aliens' could be right here in our very own bloodstream.

That’s an interesting thought, but even the smallest nano probes would be visible to modern instrumentation, so it would’ve been detected by now. And apparently an alien being can find out whatever it needs to know by sticking a 6-inch needle into an eye, or a girthy probe up the rear end.

The whole point of the debate I think is that we could do it now, or very soon. It then becomes very plausible to think that life on other planets in the galaxy could do it as well. That's a factor of 1 on the parsimonious scale. No need for new physics or gravitational propulsion, which I very much doubt exists at all.

Clearly these anomalous devices employ a form of field propulsion mechanism that we don’t have, so yes, either new physics or gravitational field propulsion is required to explain ufo sightings. Naturally I favor the gravitational field propulsion explanation, because it’s a hand-in-glove fit with the performance capabilities that we see with these reports all the time, and it’s perfectly consistent with the general theory of relativity (and the only scientific objection to it - the positive energy theorem, was proven in 2014 to be inapplicable to accelerating de Sitter universes like the one we inhabit). In any case, we need a scientific explanation for silent levitation and dramatic accelerations without any emissions. And not only does gravitational field propulsion provide that explanation, but it also just happens to be the only known principle with superluminal capability, which could reduce interstellar transit time from years to hours, or less. Granted, we haven’t yet figured out how to produce that effect without harnessing the energy equivalent of several tons of matter – but clearly somebody out there has, and therefore we will too, eventually.

If they're synthetic organisms, or avatars, it's possible if any bodies were recovered (which I doubt), they were never 'alive' in the sense that we understand it in the first place.

It may be like you or I losing a fingernail.

That reminds me of the Cylons in Battlestar Galactica – and with a synthetic organism, it makes perfect sense to simply network the A.I. to the body so the mind isn’t lost when the body gets torn to shreds and strewn out over a few acres of cattle ranch.

 

[Burnt State]

It could kind of be both though right?

I’m thinking the machine probes could create life as replicas of the biological entities that sent it off in the first place. It’s not so hard after all - even for us it’s become more of an engineering problem than a scientific one.

Or it could create machine based faximiles of life - replicants if you will - that perhaps have some semblance to the biological originators of the probes but with none of the biological sensitivities. This could be why they don’t often use breathing or filtering apparatuses.

Or the entities could simply be avatars created for the probes convenience, and nothing more than something like the waldoes we use to handle nuclear waste while behind a safe lead shield.

Totally agree it could be both. Hoffman suggests in his theory of conscious agents that we ourselves could be a part of another conscious agent or organism, like bacteria is a part of us, that we are entirely unaware of. Certainly our own bodies could easily be inhabited by an alien technology that helps to create the strange appearances of alien encounters that people have been having for a very long time on Earth. It would help to explain some of the surreal nature of experiences reported that follow more of a dream logic than an ordered narrative. This helps to explain why the threshold experience is often not part of the narrative...for rarely do abductees report how they got onto the ship and they appear to be suddenly just there.

Of course the strange thing is that in many instances of humanoid encounters we do have reports of breathing apparatus on the body of the alien, or they appear with visors, mittens or gloves or in one personal favourite the large catfish humanoids in big black boots had on their back what could only be described by the witness as the equivalent of some kind of feathery gill apparatus that was opening and closing as if filtering the air. There are distinct suggestions of a biological creature in our midsts or these could be manufactured purely for our benefit, or we are co-creators of the tale.

Also there are tales of failed abduction attempts like Cisco Grove or Dechmont woods where the robots and alien intelligence seems to be rather silly in their inability to properly capture the human. Why and how a superior intelligence that can navigate the stars not get a human out of tree or into their shimmering cloaked craft is beyond me. And then in the Emilcin case a fully conscious human narrates a start to finish encounter with abduction and a complete boarding of the craft in great detail.

These cases suggest that there's much more going on than a simple ETH narrative of aliens visiting us from elsewhere to collect samples and biological souvenirs from Earth. There is an inconsistency to what a superior intelligence has capacity to do and even the nature of the narratives are often illogical.

I guess I expect more from a cluster cloud of alien nanobots than what's been reported.

 

[marduk]

Totally agree it could be both. Hoffman suggests in his theory of conscious agents that we ourselves could be a part of another conscious agent or organism, like bacteria is a part of us, that we are entirely unaware of. Certainly our own bodies could easily be inhabited by an alien technology that helps to create the strange appearances of alien encounters that people have been having for a very long time on Earth. It would help to explain some of the surreal nature of experiences reported that follow more of a dream logic than an ordered narrative. This helps to explain why the threshold experience is often not part of the narrative...for rarely do abductees report how they got onto the ship and they appear to be suddenly just there.

Of course the strange thing is that in many instances of humanoid encounters we do have reports of breathing apparatus on the body of the alien, or they appear with visors, mittens or gloves or in one personal favourite the large catfish humanoids in big black boots had on their back what could only be described by the witness as the equivalent of some kind of feathery gill apparatus that was opening and closing as if filtering the air. There are distinct suggestions of a biological creature in our midsts or these could be manufactured purely for our benefit, or we are co-creators of the tale.

Also there are tales of failed abduction attempts like Cisco Grove or Dechmont woods where the robots and alien intelligence seems to be rather silly in their inability to properly capture the human. Why and how a superior intelligence that can navigate the stars not get a human out of tree or into their shimmering cloaked craft is beyond me. And then in the Emilcin case a fully conscious human narrates a start to finish encounter with abduction and a complete boarding of the craft in great detail.

These cases suggest that there's much more going on than a simple ETH narrative of aliens visiting us from elsewhere to collect samples and biological souvenirs from Earth. There is an inconsistency to what a superior intelligence has capacity to do and even the nature of the narratives are often illogical.

I guess I expect more from a cluster cloud of alien nanobots than what's been reported.

I’ve often thought that there may be a fundamental limit to intelligence. I mean, apes got smarter until they just stopped. We’re not getting any smarter. Why is that?

If that’s true, they are as stupid as we are, and that’s pretty stupid.

I think Doctor Who said something about computers being sophisticated idiots.

What if they’re just a bunch of bumbling buffoons like we are?

 

[marduk]

This is a good point, and it’s one that’s far too frequently overlooked: we could deliver a small probe to a nearby star system if we chose to do so.

Another point that’s often overlooked is that we can already accelerate matter to >99.99% the speed of light in particle accelerators around the world. So if we scale that capability up from a gold ion to a device that’s perhaps the size of a thimble, then we could hypothetically get a small probe to a nearby star in a matter of a few years.

Agree, but braking when you get there would be a bit of a bitch. You might transit the entire solar system in a few minutes.

An important point here is that physicists have made substantial efforts over the last couple of decades to detect any sign of a single extra spatial dimension, and failed. So it’s not simply a matter of an absence of evidence – we now have significant disproof for the existence of extra dimensions. The only place they have left to hide now, is if they’re wrapped up in little knots at subnuclear scales, which renders them useless for producing macroscopic “other realities” and such.

Yup. People get all hand-wringy about things like '11 dimensions curled up' as a mathematical abstraction for one possible set of solutions in string theory. Without understanding what a dimension really is: it's the minimum number of data points you need to describe something's location. We exist in four dimensions because of up, down, depth, and time is needed to describe something's location in space/time. Adding a fifth doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't exist in space/time. Subtracting one would be weird.

Have you got a link to that paper? I don’t see how a cloud of nanoprobes could populate the observable universe in a million years without a metric propulsion system, and it’s hard to imagine that being achievable at such a small scale.

Some good numbers here:
How long would it take to colonise the galaxy?

Essentially: take advantage of doubling effects and be patient. No antigravity needed. The galaxy should be full of 'em.

I’m also skeptical of the self-replicating probe idea: today’s most advanced technology requires a global network of specialized manufacturing facilities – putting all of that refining and manufacturing capacity into something the size of a dust mote just seems unrealistic to me.

All you really have to do is the following:

- allow them to communicate.
- allow them to move (probably the biggest problem).
- allow them to use local resources for energy.
- allow them to combine themselves.
- allow some small amounts of local memory and computation.
- allow them to come together and use local resources to replicate themselves.

They wouldn't have to self replicate on a 1 on 1 fashion - if 1000 of them combined, say, to start mass producing copies that would work.

It’s quite possible that most of the unexplained devices that we see in the sky are simply that: autonomous devices. But I don’t rule out biological travelers either – lots of human (including myself) would eagerly journey to distant stars; some things are worth risking your life. I would imagine that lots of denizens of other civilizations would feel the same way. And as marduk pointed out, we may be seeing synthetic organisms of some kind.

Or something that combines both? Imagine, like on BSG, replicant humans. That you can upload minds from, to, memories, experiences... Would be one hell of a ride through the galaxy.

Kinda sorta. Cells are bound together with organic life though. So it makes more sense to compare a machine made of circuit boards (which employ silicone nanotech) to a living organism. I don’t see any advantage to a “cloud of nanites” over a solid device that exploits molecular engineering at the component level.

What I'm envisioning is some kind of networked intelligence that makes circuit boards when it needs it to do something. Or spaceships. Or big eyed grey guys. Or whatever.

That’s an interesting thought, but even the smallest nano probes would be visible to modern instrumentation, so it would’ve been detected by now. And apparently an alien being can find out whatever it needs to know by sticking a 6-inch needle into an eye, or a girthy probe up the rear end.

Lol, I get your point. But would we even notice it? Our bodies are filled with all kinds of debris. Dirt and dust are everywhere inside us, as are new species of bacteria found all the time. Maybe one of them isn't native.

That reminds me of the Cylons in Battlestar Galactica – and with a synthetic organism, it makes perfect sense to simply network the A.I. to the body so the mind isn’t lost when the body gets torn to shreds and strewn out over a few acres of cattle ranch.

Love it.

 

[Trajanus]

An important point here is that physicists have made substantial efforts over the last couple of decades to detect any sign of a single extra spatial dimension, and failed. So it’s not simply a matter of an absence of evidence – we now have significant disproof for the existence of extra dimensions. The only place they have left to hide now, is if they’re wrapped up in little knots at subnuclear scales, which renders them useless for producing macroscopic “other realities” and such.

Interesting, thanks.

I’m also skeptical of the self-replicating probe idea: today’s most advanced technology requires a global network of specialized manufacturing facilities – putting all of that refining and manufacturing capacity into something the size of a dust mote just seems unrealistic to me.....
Yeah the whole “nano-mania” thing seems rather sensationalistic and “buzz-wordy” to me. There are lots of foreseeable advantages to nanotech, but I don’t see how interstellar exploration is one of them. Macroscopic devices will always have their uses in any technological civilization, imo, and spaceflight seems like one of them.

Agreed.

But logic suggests that if one advanced civilization has visited our planet, then others have as well. So I don't think we're dealing with a single alien civilization sending probes/craft to Earth; I think we're probably being visited by many intelligent species, each with its own agenda(s).

This is possible. Some aliens have killed humans, others cured them.

What's very interesting to me, though, is that they all seem to employ the same propulsion principle, because very different craft exhibit the same sorts of exotic performance characteristics. So that's something that we'll be able to replicate one day.

It's quite possible that both intelligence and technological progress ultimately reach a peak or limit and then essentially cease.

 

[Trajanus]

These cases suggest that there's much more going on than a simple ETH narrative of aliens visiting us from elsewhere to collect samples and biological souvenirs from Earth. There is an inconsistency to what a superior intelligence has capacity to do and even the nature of the narratives are often illogical.

Of course. In general the phenomenon looks ET but there's a lot of unusual stuff. Rather than dismiss the ETH it would be better to just interpret it as a deliberate attempt to confuse us. We know the phenomenon doesn't reveal itself openly. Clearly there's another way to hide the truth, and that is to put on weird shows.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Funny that you posted that video yesterday because last night I watched the same video on YouTube - that's what I fell asleep to. And of course because that was playing (and the video's that followed) I dreamt of UFO's lol.

Yep these things seem to occur and glad you responded as this is why some of the science community overlook the cases during discussion in the forum. It's to far out there.

It's been done to death . Is there a actual original Police / Military Department audio/footage interview with the Police Officers and Betty and Barney Hill the next following days?

Also actual photos of the location prior to the event and not the car , aerial images following days after the event?

Dr .Randle great book which currently reading about encounters and sleep paralysis whatever it is.
Using the ‘Bootstrap,’ Physicists Uncover Geometry of Theory Space | Quanta Magazine

How do we know it not a side effect maybe some electromagnetic interference from the encounter. Michael Atiyah’s Mathematical Dreams | Quanta Magazine

Also there is no clear answers just theories and even science is still struggling with why are we here and are we alone in the universe.

String Theory’s Strange Second Life | Quanta Magazine

David J. Gross: Waiting for the Next Revolution in Physics | Quanta Magazine

This is where Chris experiments might get a leg up through institutions in funding,

Edward Witten Ponders the Nature of Reality

 

[mike]

Two scenarios (hypothetical of course)

They land on the whitehouse lawn:

And announce that they are biological beings like us from another planet.

Polls suggest this would not cause a war of the worlds type panic today
YouGov | You are not alone: most people believe that aliens exist
Four in five Canadians believe in aliens: Angus Reid poll

Or

They announce they are members of a post biological society which includes our own dead, That post biological species have been seeking out sentient species for millions of years and uploading them when their native bioform wears out and that our biological "world view" is the outlook of the infant. That the reality is much more complicated.

That the old religious books that talk about eternal life in a new body, had the concept right but not the technical details.

I think that would go down like a lead balloon. And why bother ? just keep processing them as they transition. It would be like going into a field of sentient sheep and telling them they are all destined for the diner table eventually.
Mass panic.

 

[Burnt State]

Of course. In general the phenomenon looks ET but there's a lot of unusual stuff. Rather than dismiss the ETH it would be better to just interpret it as a deliberate attempt to confuse us. We know the phenomenon doesn't reveal itself openly. Clearly there's another way to hide the truth, and that is to put on weird shows.

I suppose for me the issue is that if we give the idea of agency over to something we haven't even properly defined yet then we start going down speculative path that writes its own ETH narrative without any limits and all evidence to the contrary gets shaved off or reworked to fit the hypothesis as opposed to finding limits to a hypothesis and exploring what other possibilities could be taking place.

And the one part I hold to is that witnesses are what have brought us the bulk of what we define as the phenomenon and so they shouldn't be ignored. It doesn't matter how weird the case is, those high strange components have been there from the start and they need integration into any working theory. I think what witness testimony produces is evidence of what could be various phenomena at work and not just a singular answer. It doesn't make sense to squeeze all the odd shaped blocks into the ETH square hole when what's on the table for points of origin may be entirely about human psychology, human experimentation or involve unknown Earth bound phenomenon, consciousnesses or even life forms not from this planet.

So instead of smoothening out the data to make way for the ETH to own it all I suggest that there are many possibilities for what we traditionally label as the UFO and this of course includes the ETH as an option. But in the meantime, after 70 years or so of research instead of hanging our hats on one idea I'd like to see some divergent thinking on the subject that includes looking at issues of perception, consciousness and the role of the witness on naming what happened before, during and after the event/experience.

We have heard a lot about the archetype of the trickster associated with the phenomenon and it seems that this is as much a sociological study as it is a scientific one, along with both psychological and biological features. If all we talk about is the alien technology we seem to encounter in our skies then a lot of other very rich data gets excluded, reshaped or thrown into the waste bin for the sake of a theory. Should not we adapt new theories to fit all the evidence?

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I think as each year goes by and I get a year older - that my confidence in flying saucers actually existing goes down a percent. Bigfoot too for that matter....but that's another story

 

[Burnt State]

They announce they are members of a post biological society which includes our own dead, That post biological species have been seeking out sentient species for millions of years and uploading them when their native bioform wears out and that our biological "world view" is the outlook of the infant. That the reality is much more complicated.

Very creative thinking here. This idea of the role of the dead in ufology keeps recurring in different forms and formats and is very intriguing to me. Ya wanna go into that in a little more detail?

 

[Creepy Green Light]

...and as we discuss all this I happened to see this again. Do you remember the feeling you got at the very end when "the reveal" came? Man - this is one of the all time greats, IMO.