The Clueless One is Annoying

[valiens]

Hi, Scott:

I'm not selfless and I am concerned with how I come across. Here are my personal dilemmas, if you're interested:

I feel a responsibility in saying the things I say to walk a certain line. I know that what comes out of my mouth sounds to the "outside world" like a load of crap. I cannot stand saying the things I'm saying knowing that they sound like the very things people full of crap say. Many of the people who believe everything that comes out of my mouth range from above-average neurotic to balls-out crazy. They think we're speaking the same language but (in my mind at least) I'm talking about the transrational and they are talking about the irrational. The rational person sees both as irrational, not recognizing the levels and the irrational person sees both as transrational, not recognizing himself.

That being the case, I want to really speak to the rational person and egg him/her on into investigating this stuff because it's real. At the same time, I cannot take comfort in the acceptance of delusional people who believe me because that's how cults form.

Does that make sense?

Next....

If I may paraphrase: Why don't they wake up politicians and leaders who will start a new movement to raise consciousness and fix everything?

--because that doesn't fundamentally change the human. We're not talking about a political or even moral revolution, we're talking about a fundamental revolution in the species itself that redefines what "human" is. The leaders you're talking about changed how people think, but this involves stopping thought completely, not just mixing it up for a while until the next facist trend reverses things.

Next

Do they have to be aliens?

--no. I think if you play this out to its logical conclusion, the term "alien" is relative figuratively and literally. The energy thing in me did not come about because of abductions although I've had a few things happen that let me know these beings are aware of the energy and know how to use it.

My abduction experiences began loing before the energy episode. Could it be psychic phenomena or something else? Hey, even Ken Wilber, who I'm a fan of, chalks abductions up to Baby Boomers wanting to be the center of the world and so mistranslating authentic spiritual experience into this other space age thing. I used to be open to these ideas but having finally seen them face to face, I gotta say, they look and emote like living, breathing organisms no more or less than you and I.

I gotta split but I wanna say that I know this is all harsh. No one wants to hear "There will be a near-extinction soon. But trust me: it's for your own good." I don't!

But think of it from that objective, Discovery Channel perspective: IF it's true that humans are here for something and that something is to bring god-self awareness into matter and we don't do it, then we have failed. The consequence sucks for us even moreso than other animals because we've built ourselves up as something super special in our minds. We have a god or gods that take care of us and love us and families that love us and we love ourselves and believe we understand basically what life is about. Even if we don't understand everything, we will given enough time because we're the pinnacle of what earth has to offer. We're pretty friggen great and deserve to live. Anything less is evil.

All of that is a mistake.

 

[scott]

Hi Jeremy,

Your responses have been very thoughtful--thank you.

You're saying the entities want to change what "human" is in time to save the species--is that correct? It's not political or moral; it's spiritual, right? Yet when David asked why they chose you, you said you had no idea. Aren't these entities of an intelligence far greater than our own? Don't they see how ineffective they've been with their plan to wake us up? It's not going very well, is it?

People every day, often without realizing it, experience Oneness or the "godhead," as you put it. Even in the most egocentric, every day they have at the very least, moments of this experience. We all know it when it happens. It's not elusive, it's who we really are. We don't need aliens to tell us this. It simply occurs when the mind is still yet alert. Again, it's who we really are. Given this fact, the aliens don't need to visit the people who practice this already, they need to visit the ones who don't. Think of it this way: People of all levels have had near death experiences. Virtually every one of these people has now radically changed the way they live.

So again, if an immediate sharing of Oneness is what these aliens are about, why aren't they visiting the people who are farthest away from feeling it? Wouldn't that facilitate the quickest change to the species?

 

[valiens]

Hola, Scott:

I don't believe they think in terms of saving the species per se. It's more like oneness waking oneself up. If it happens, great. If not, cry and move on.

You're making the assumption that waking leaders is more meaningful than waking the average joe. It's not. You can't wake leaders and then have them lead us to anything. We can't be lead where this is concerned, just poked with a hot iron and hope for the best.

On paper, America is an enlightened society. Great doctrines, Constitution, rights, and so forth. But as with any system it is born of thought and thus corruptible. (And as I'm sure you know, corrupted to the point that even the facade of democracy is dead.)

Suppose for a second Jesus really was a god and all that. The moment organized religion popped up around him, his godness got corrupted. So even the man-god didn't save us or himself or his message.

No, fixing the system and/or the people who run it is not the key. It's up to the individual to "wake up" or not.

I know none of this is news. In fact, it doesn't take aliens to come here and say this or give examples for me to hone in on. There have been enlightened humans throughout the ages who have said the same thing. It's the same thing because it's universal and timeless. So beings who are of a timeless universal mindset say the same thing.

Kind of anticlimactic now that I think about it. "You mean you traveled light years to tell us what we already know?"

It's that "already know" part that gets in the way. We say we already know it and so the subject is over. It's dead. Let's move on to the next thing. But this isn't about what we know and don't know, it's about the ending of thought altogether.

You say people feel oneness all the time in quiet moments. I disagree. In those quiet moments the self is still alive, still at work. Oneness isn't a feeling, it's a modus operandi (if that's the right word.) I think if we all woke up the last thing we'd do is talk about it. We wouldn't take a vow of silence, that vow would naturally come alive in us.

As for me, I'm taking a vow of blabbing for a while and then I'll fade back into the woodwork.

As I agreed before, I could be totally wrong or a liar so don't take my word for it. It's there for the discovering. That, Grasshoppa...is up to you. (Or not-you, as it were.)

 

[scott]

Jeremy,

Do you really mean this is about the end of thought altogether? Don't you mean "rising above thought?" Higher consciousness still entails thought. In fact, the higher the consciousness, the clearer the thinking. The little mind steps out of the way so an uncluttered higher mind can direct your actions. Zen. Unless, what you're saying is the entities are influencing people to join Oneness so entirely, their minds evaporate. This is impossible--in my view--without heavy drugs or alcohol, sleep deprivation or some debility that produces a vegetative state. Could it be the aliens are encouraging you and others to willfully enter the vegetative state? There are only two ways I know of to enter Oneness: Become fully conscious or become a turnip. Either state could feel good, but one uses the mind as a sharp tool, the other never has a thought at all. Does it ever worry you that perhaps these aliens are going after intelligent, open seekers such as yourself to influence you to behave more like vegetables? To get you out of the way.

It seems to me if it is so necessary for us to evolve--and I think it is--then we are going to need to rise above common thought, evolve to higher consciousness, one that recognizes our interdependence. If our species is headed down the wrong path, then we're going to need higher thinking processes at work to correct ourselves. Becoming vegetables will not save the species. In fact, civilization would collapse overnight--and not in a good way. Not only would all industry come to a halt, but those of the lowest consciousness--most resistant to any message of Oneness--would form armies and fight it out. Apocolypse--while everyone else sits around feeling good, not thinking. Could this be what these aliens really want?

Or is it possible the entities are well-intentioned after all, but the vegetative bliss works for their brains, not for ours?

 

[Brian Now]

Jeremy,

Do you really mean this is about the end of thought altogether? Don't you mean "rising above thought?" Higher consciousness still entails thought.

This is a good question. I think Jeremy's original statement probably didn't use the best choice of words, though I think I get what he was saying. If he really meant the end of thought itself then it would be another example of the West misunderstanding Eastern thought (and yes, this conversation has gone decidedly Eastern now). This probably has to do with most languages not having the terminology that Sanskrit had for all the different nuances of what we call "thought" and "mind". Unfortunately, we have to describe these things in English, but Sanskrit could use a term or phrase.

Have you ever heard of Buddhist zombies by the way? These are usually white westerners who misunderstand Buddhism to be the cessation of all emotion and become sort of dull, hahaha. But that's got nothing to do with what we are talking about.

I wonder if, from the point of view of these entities Jeremy talks about, the message is indeed getting across. Since they don't live in our normal human frame-of-mind they might not completely understand us. They might think getting Jeremy to talk about oneness to other people is a job well done. We humans know that it isn't a very time efficient way of getting the message across..and that is certainly true...but they may not be too concerned with months and years. They might just be doing the best they can within the limits of their understanding.

 

[scott]

This is a good question. I think Jeremy's original statement probably didn't use the best choice of words, though I think I get what he was saying. If he really meant the end of thought itself then it would be another example of the West misunderstanding Eastern thought (and yes, this conversation has gone decidedly Eastern now). This probably has to do with most languages not having the terminology that Sanskrit had for all the different nuances of what we call "thought" and "mind". Unfortunately, we have to describe these things in English, but Sanskrit could use a term or phrase.

Have you ever heard of Buddhist zombies by the way? These are usually white westerners who misunderstand Buddhism to be the cessation of all emotion and become sort of dull, hahaha. But that's got nothing to do with what we are talking about.

I wonder if, from the point of view of these entities Jeremy talks about, the message is indeed getting across. Since they don't live in our normal human frame-of-mind they might not completely understand us. They might think getting Jeremy to talk about oneness to other people is a job well done. We humans know that it isn't a very time efficient way of getting the message across..and that is certainly true...but they may not be too concerned with months and years. They might just be doing the best they can within the limits of their understanding.

Your points are excellent, Brian. Well said.

But I offer this idea: Many noted UFO scholars have suggested that certain aliens are playing with people's minds, or at the very least, shape-shifting and presenting themselves differently to different people. That's why I ask about motivation. Are these indeed aliens of goodwill (within the limits of their understanding of humanity) offering their "sense of Oneness?" Or, are they appearing to certain resonant, like-minded, open people in a guise that those people can receive? Are they appearing to Jeremy in a manner he can understand and receive? I imagine if I had to see aliens, I would want to them to bring me such a message of non-threatening Connectedness. Could they be giving something to Jeremy and others that feels like this message/energy, all the while manipulating them for purposes we can't imagine?

David Jacobs, Jeff Ritzman, Stanton Friedman and so many others have in some measure dedicated their lives to this phenomena; they never conclude the aliens are here for our benefit or for a greater spiritual purpose. That doesn't make these scholars right, but it's worth noting.

Nonetheless, I give Jeremy a lot of credit for answering the harsh ridicule by elaborating on his unusual story.

 

[scott]

Hi Jeremy,

I wouldn't blame you one bit if you're sick of this thread, especially with a title so "annoying." All my fault. No tact sometimes. But I'd love it if you could address the questions I asked in my last two posts.

Is the feeling one of living above or below thought?
Could the entities' ineffectiveness be from a simple inability to relate to humanity?
Or a possible deception on their part?

Thanks

 

[Tommy Allison]

I think it's hilarious that people take most of this stuff as seriously as they do, especially in light of what we supposedly know.

I could write book after book about being an experiencer, knowing full well it was crap, and make a buck. Then again, I'm not making a buck off of new age nonsense, which is exactly what this crap is.

Goodness doesn't have to hide from the daylight. Whether it be human or alien, that is a universal.

 

[scott]

Goodness doesn't have to hide from the daylight. Whether it be human or alien, that is a universal.

My instinct too, Tommy.

Brian Now pointed out that if these are real entities, they may be very well-intentioned, just not aware of how to relate to humans. But if they're really visiting people, I wonder if some of these beings have an alternative agenda while appearing in the guise the seer wants to see.

I think The Clueless One is really experiencing something. And in some way, it's truly enlightening for him. But if it really were about spreading a spiritual awakening into the community, it's not working very well, is it?

I know you find the message phony or deranged, and I respect your opinion about that. I happen to love the message, but find the conveyance of it full of holes. An end to thought: Does he mean the age-old practices of Zen and the martial arts--free consciousness above thought but using the mind as a tool, or the non-thought, no-mind of a plant?

 

[BrandonD]

Goodness doesn't have to hide from the daylight. Whether it be human or alien, that is a universal.

I'm with you on that point. When I'm trying to solve a problem that seems "above" me (in this instance, "Why would 'higher beings' who are motivated to help someone be deceptive in their methods?"), I try to find a parallel in my ordinary life. And I can't find one. I can't think of a situation where a parent or teacher lying to a child is better than simply telling the child the truth, for example.

This element of deception alone leads me to think that there's something related to this ufo mystery that isn't in our best interest.

 

[David Biedny]

This element of deception alone leads me to think that there's something related to this ufo mystery that isn't in our best interest.

THAT is the thing about the abduction phenomenon that really resonates with me personally - I have a really hard time with the "space bros are here to help us save our bacon" stuff for exactly this reason. Us humans have shown time and time again how easy it is to manipulate us to do just about anything, and I have to assume that a technologically superior race would quickly figure that out and use it to their advantage. I suspect that altruism is as rare in the Universe as it is here on Earth.

dB

 

[scott]

Us humans have shown time and time again how easy it is to manipulate us to do just about anything, and I have to assume that a technologically superior race would quickly figure that out and use it to their advantage.dB

Manipulation seems most likely to me too. But let's assume for a moment everything Jeremy details is 100% accurate--Oneness, Godhead, An end to individual thought: Could it be these very alien entities are well-intentioned from their point of view, simply showing and giving him the "benefits" of a hive mentality?

An inhuman solution to our problems, but a perfect one from their point of view.

 

[valiens]

Is the feeling one of living above or below thought?
Could the entities' ineffectiveness be from a simple inability to relate to humanity?
Or a possible deception on their part?
Thanks

It's transcending thought so that thought (and the thinker, which is also thought) get recontextualized, reintegrated into the person. The Artist-Formerly-Known-As-Thinker now takes its rightful place as the mechanism of Being, who greets the world. It doesn't believe itself to be Being itself anymore.

Is that more or less confusing?

I don't think the "aliens" (or whatever they are) suffer an inability to relate to humans any more so than we suffer relating to each other. I think they know us better than we know ourselves, as the cliche goes.

I don't think there's a deception going on in the sense of "They are evil and manipulative." It's more like they are actors acting; they are playing a role, and in that sense there's a manipulation. It is very Zen, actually. They'll kick our asses before they ever coddle us.

Look, this isn't like learning something in school, where they should just come here, explain things, teach us, and walk away with a handshake to prove their good intent. I'm sure some of that happens; I've heard from several reliable sources that they've been taught something scientific from these people--but clearly that ain't the ball game or it would be over already.

When I say things like "ultimately this is good," or, "they're here to wake us up," I am NOT talking about happy, fun space brother crap. I'm talking about beings who would sooner see us destroyed than go on as we are. The waking up part is what Oneness does. One wakes Oneself wherever it is expressed in the universe. It tries, anyway. When it fails, civilizations go extinct. That's not fun space brotherly love, that's the real deal. That's, essentially, saying "Look, humans. You think that who you are is important and worth preserving. It's not. Your brain's ability to usher in the self-awareness of Ultimate Intelligence (or god or oneness--by whatever word....) into matter is what's important about you. The 'you' is not real and if you don't get that, sooner or later, yer outta here."

Now, having spoken to numerous other abductees/experiencers, they believe that something like what I just described is happening and, in fact, that mine is a hopeless cause because a species dieback goes hand-in-hand with this so-called "enlightenment." And maybe that's true, as consciousness seem to adhere to a pyramid scheme, where the base is fundamentalist and the top is God-self aware, and every type of theist/atheist doctrine falls in between. We ARE a world of primarily literalist religious thinkers. I mean that IS the majority of the world's population. The pool of people who see bibles as metaphor is smaller. The people who are atheist is smaller. The people who have transcended all of it, you can probably count on one hand.

So maybe I'm wrong in thinking that talking about this stuff might trigger a revolution in someone's brain reading these words, or hearing it. Maybe that's self-agrandizement to the Nth degree. But I feel like I've got to do something.

On another note, I challenge any of you who believe that this is about making money to write a fake New Age book on the topic of your choice and try to get it published. When that fails, go ahead and self-publish it. Report back to us your new, higher tax bracket. I'd love to hear your success story.

 

[Mogwa]

Space Brothers as New Age Interplanetary Social Workers?
No.
Stealing, murdering, kidnapping, stinking, raping, lying, butchering, deceptive, sadistic ambulatory corpses would be a more accurate description. At least for whatever it is that's been interacting with humanity for the last few thousand years, pretending to be something it isn't.
For every Whitley Strieber willing to play the role of credulous Judas goat, there's a David Jacobs actually working to discover the truth. I wish him luck, but I 'm not confident he'll be more successful than any of the hundreds of others who have followed the same trail down that dark path. It leads nowhere.

 

[valiens]

"Stealing, murdering, kidnapping, stinking, raping, lying, butchering, deceptive, sadistic ambulatory corpses would be a more accurate description."

What do you base that on?

 

[Brian Now]

THAT is the thing about the abduction phenomenon that really resonates with me personally - I have a really hard time with the "space bros are here to help us save our bacon" stuff for exactly this reason.

I agree. But the conversation in this thread seems to be geared toward the idea of humans vs other. Do you ever wonder if there isn't only us and them? What if there is us and X, and Y, and Z and J etc... What if there are the beings that fly craft like you saw over Venezuela, and might have some level of deliberate deception, and then entirely unrelated beings that might (or might not) be responsible for what Jeremy experiences.

Maybe the only thing these different beings have in common is that humans don't directly perceive them very often.

This is an idea that makes sense to me...I guess it goes a long with the transdimensional idea of non-human entities rather than the general extraterrestrial idea. But both can be true at the same time.

 

[Mogwa]

"Stealing, murdering, kidnapping, stinking, raping, lying, butchering, deceptive, sadistic ambulatory corpses would be a more accurate description."

What do you base that on?

Some people have been less than kind when discussing your case here, Jeremy, My intention was not to take part in that faction's less than compassionate dialog. Whatever happened to you is something only you can honestly deal with. You know what the truth is in this matter, I don't. I will say that the charges made against you claiming personal financial gain as your motivation are absurd. Right or wrong, you come across as sincere, but confused. Welcome to the club.
Strieber and his ilk are another matter. While he has not profited financially from his position as the Official Abduction Guru, he has exploited it to further his personal agenda, which is to proselytize a New Age belief system based upon the teachings of Blavatsky, Gurdjieff, and a gaggle of other like minded occultist frauds.
My conviction that the "aliens" involved in the human abduction phenomenon are vicious monstrosities employing a program of deception to disguise who they are and what they're doing here is based upon personal experience, along with years of exhaustive research.
I don't know what these entities are, or what their ultimate goals may be. But I can definitely assert that they are parasitic in nature, and place no value on any individual human life.

 

[scott]

My conviction that the "aliens" involved in the human abduction phenomenon are vicious monstrosities employing a program of deception to disguise who they are and what they're doing here is based upon personal experience, along with years of exhaustive research.
I don't know what these entities are, or what their ultimate goals may be. But I can definitely assert that they are parasitic in nature, and place no value on any individual human life.

These are powerful assertions. Can you elaborate on your "personal experience" or "exhaustive research?"

 

[neuromancer]

These are powerful assertions. Can you elaborate on your "personal experience" or "exhaustive research?"

Mogwa spoke about his personal xperiences in Derrel Sims' discussion thread sometime back. u can see the individual post here!

The Paracast Community Forums

 

[valiens]

Okay, so having read that thread I must ask the obvious: What in that is so terrible besides the terror you felt?

It's the same with me. My experiences are filled with fear so raw, so animalistic, that right after, I wanted to kill them. I "knew" they were evil because that's the feeling I walked away with. But in mulling it over, what evil thing happened? I was stared at on a table? They stood by my bed?

I mean these are not horrifying scenarios and yet the horror is more real than real.

I saw, I think her name is Beth Collings, one of the authors of "Connections." She's an abductee who was regressed by Hopkins. She thinks these beings are terrible., yet she describes the following:

--Being shown how to pilot a ship.

--After her abductions ended, two of the beings popping into her room to check up on her like old friends who missed her.

I'm asking--Are those the actions of evil entities? She was crying through much of her presentation.

SOMEONE SHOW ME THE EVIL!!!

[NOTE: Mogwa, I'm not referring to you by association in the following rant, it's just the turn this lil set of questions has lead me.]

The closest I can get to actually having evil actions that match the terror we feel in their presence is David Jacobs' research. Frankly, his stories sound like rape fantasies to me: evil reptilians raping women, right? These beings aren't even taking them into ships anymore, just showing up in the home and raping away. I find it questionable.

See, I have a problem with all this abduction stuff, in spite of my own experiences, which is this: I didn't believe Beth Collins when I saw her live. When I read her book, I was hooked. When I saw her and heard her, I didn't really believe it. How long was she missing that she was shown how to pilot a ship? I dunno...something didn't add up--her tearful story was too fantastic--and it reminded me of the critique I heard from some reporter covering the MIT abduction conference in the early 90s: This sounds like the fantasies of bored housewives. Again, I didn't believe that until I heard her live.

Another example is someone who shall remain nameless for the time being. He was regressed by the man who taught John Mack hypnotic regression, and I believe also by Mack himself. This man's tales are so incredible and I've spent enough time with him that I can see he's delusional, has a messianic complex, and craves fame--a troubling combination. He hasn't just met a galactic federation, a portal to paradise opened and he stepped through and met Jesus, who is working with the aliens, by the way.

This man's background includes having been deprogrammed from a Christian cult and also suffering a nervous breakdown. Did Mack & mentor take this personal bit of history into consideration before giving him their seal of approval? If I can see the problem, why can't they?

This is what bugs me: from Mack to Jacobs there seems to be little discretion so long as the subject conforms to their view of what these abductions are. Maybe in the beginning they had more discretion but as people from all walks of life came in with these stories, the lines blurred and then disappeared. Because who knows? Maybe this guy is an abductee in addition to being delusional with a messianic complex. Who are we to say?

Well someone has to! Someone has to look into the backgrounds of the women claiming reptiles rape them and ask the obvious, if tough, question: Daddy. How'd that go growing up?

I'm gonna end by throwing in the Biedney caveat: I reserve the right to be wrong. I may be absolutely wrong about all of the above and perhaps if I were hypnotically regressed I'd find that I, too, piloted a ship or spent days upon days worth of time with these beings or was raped in my living room by 6-foot bipedal lizards--who knows?

For now, I'm trusting my instinct, experience, and gift for understanding personal psychology. My radar tells me that there is a massive disconnect between the fear we experiencers feel and the actual goings on. It further warns me that even the best and most famous therapists MAY use far less discretion in deeming cases authentic than we imagine. After all, it's a given that Jacobs and Hopkins will not believe you if your story is even remotely positive. It must be asked, then: If one feels strongly negative about one's experience and this is reafirmed, coddled, and respected by one's therapist, will it not influence the memories themselves? If one is fantasy prone, weak-willed, delusional AND is having her story reafirmed by her therapist, will the yarn keep unravelling in like manner?

Are there protocols and oversight for this?