Stanton T. Friedman — August 3, 2014

[James Carrion]

Nic

I received the following response from Friedman:

"There is no incompatibility with my saying I didn't have enough information about Romanek and other topics and expecting that James' book would have baloney. I had after all previously read and heard James' comments about Roswell, disinformation, Soviets etc. I commented at length and in detail in my January 2010 MUFON Journal column all seemingly related to his views about deception counter intelligence etc.I have sent you the column."

The original MUFON column, as submitted by Friedman, is posted here with his permission (there are minor formatting glitches because of the transfer from a Word document):

Thanks Gene for posting Stan's reply.

Stan sees fit to post his criticisms from 2010 which I let slide back then but will address point by point soon in a blog article on Follow The Magic Thread. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that in Canada "baloney" is just what Canadians call research you have yet to read, I won't let Stan get off so easily with his prediction that my book is disinformation. So Stan, consider this a challenge to a public debate on the material in my book. You read it, digest it and argue your best to disprove it with whatever evidence you have from the 1945 - May 1947 timeframe that my book covers. Yes, you will notice that it excludes all of your favorite subjects. I take it you will argue Ghost Rockets as you seems to believe yourself an expert in this area. If you are going to stick your foot in your mouth and call someones else's research disinformation which implies a covert agenda other than to present facts and the truth, you best be willing to back that up with solid evidence.

 

[James Carrion]

Gene where do we forumites stand here, i mean i want to be forthright, but i am unsure to exactly how it will be taken by you the management.

Who is this Carrion fellow, whats his bio, why is he trying the same cheap trash publicity tactic's as ritzman beidney varani etc etc, getting publicity on the back of a man who has just had a heart-attack, and who was my introduction to the UFO field many decades ago, and for whome i have a liking.

Is he just another life long ex-US government employee, pimping himself out to them still [trojan], or is the guy genuine, because he comes over as the George Bush of ufology.


Im asking you Gene cos youve been around longer than UFO's.

Getting publicity on the back of a man who just had a heart attack? Sorry but Stan stuck his own foot in his mouth that started this thread. He could have left his comments at "Let me offer my opinion when I have read Carrion's book" but instead he took a page out of his own "debunker" tactics he so publicly loathes in others.

 

[James Carrion]

I read the whole thread the other day, i also know about his tenure with MUFON, he becomes fair game when HE attacks others, i know randall was a marmite poster, i know he over-stressed his point of view, regularly in fact, but that was just randall, however when he attacks with comments like stanism's etc, he sets himself up as fair game, do you agree, he is out of line, how high up your buddie list is he..

If you are going to talk the talk, you best walk the walk. It is Stan who opened himself up to this by using the same debunking tactics he calls his opponents out on.

 

[Ufocurious]

GENE & CHRIS
Thank you. I am a neophyte in the UFO field, and I have learned a lot here.
Stan Friedman show was really good. He is brilliant and delightful. I have heard his other interviews, and have seen 1 or 2 youtube videos. He is so believable. I cannot think someone that has been on the field for so many years can be fooled by flimsy evidence.

HOWEVER - Did I get it right?

1. He is a nuts and bolts kind of guy?
2. Did he say he would be surprised if ETs/UFOs were interdimensional?

How about all the evidence that there is a lot of paranormal stuff happening in the field? He just dismisses it all?
Oh boy, I have a lot to study.And so does Stan Friedman... LOL

 

[DissectionStalker]

HOWEVER - Did I get it right?

1. He is a nuts and bolts kind of guy?
2. Did he say he would be surprised if ETs/UFOs were interdimensional?

1 = BigTime Yes!

2 = Since 1 = yes, then he is far from Vallee's concepts and similar theories.

This is quite interesting to me, since Friedman does have a Physics background with employment at top government contractors. I haven't listened to the Paracast yet, but I wonder if anyone asked him about recent ideas in Physics regarding multidimensional universe and we are the hologram theory, etc.

Maybe he's been so focused on ET-UFO's that he hasn't kept-up with the Physics that may explain some of the alternative reasons for UFO's.

I definitely believe in "control systems", and Humans have been doing this for thousands of years. I definitely believe Humans see UFO's, but are these Mind "control systems" and "belief systems" with some visual reality in the Sky too? I think so, but DMT or the right Mushrooms in the brain also produces "real" ET-UFO's that are not flying in the Sky for someone else to see. So, both models are real, imo, but Nuts-n-Bolts ET's ???

Too many Nuts-n-Bolts are associated with Military. Roswell and Triangles are too Military related.

 

[Ufocurious]

Thanks for the quick answer

So, both models are real, imo, but Nuts-n-Bolts ET's ???

There are 2 famous cases of nuts and bolts ETs in Brasil, Varginha and Bianca & Herminio case.

1. In Varginha, one policeman died after carrying one of the injured ETs on his lap on their way to the hospital. The policeman body defense system shut down and he died weeks later.The fact no one took a picture of this guy carrying the ET into the emergency room is very suspicious.
2. Bianca and Herminio were kidnapped with car and all Betty & Barney style and met Karran. This Karran and his crewmates looked like this:

http://www.gnosisonline.org/wp-cont...o-bianca-reis-karran-gnosisonline-240x235.jpg
Supposedly other ufologists have met Karran as well as he sometimes visit Bianca. But where are all the pictures?

Am I being bad not believing in them? That is how I feel people think of me if I question. Those 2 cases are almost sacred here. I would love to see Gene and Chris ask Marco Petit for evidence. Supposedly, he has them for both cases. And to add for the mystery: on the Varginha case Petit and Gevaerd have evidence they do not share because they promised to the military. (this is hearsay, I don't think they have said it, it is probably baloney but adds to the imbroglio).

In order not to be off topic I looked for a picture of Gevaerd, Petit and Friedman together, I could not find with Petit, but Gevaerd and Stan are right here:
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t1.0-9/1441510_527589930661533_531969571_n.jpg

 

[coyote]

Thanks for the great interview. Always great to hear Stanton.

 

[DissectionStalker]

TO CHRIS O'BRIEN: The "UFO" that crossed the road so close to you just 50 feet off the ground within 150 feet in broad daylight...

What was the shape, color, size and description of it? How fast was it moving and did it change speed or direction? Could it have been Human made? Please add more details. Thanks.

I did listen to Mr. Friedman today, and he always seems to be in good spirits. I'm glad his health appears to be so good too.

He compared the idea of intra-dimensional concepts to wormholes and science fiction, and he seemed very dismissive of such ideas being applied to ET-UFO explanations -he promotes fusion. But, before that, he did talk about abductions with people going through walls and windows, etc. and suggested these are technologies ET has. So, that could be somewhat contradictory thinking???

I think there was a lot more room for discussion to expand on that vs all the wasted time complaining about all the skeptics and naysayers. No mention of Vallee or 3d projection or holography, which I think are worth exploring much more about.

So, both models are real, imo, but Nuts-n-Bolts ET's ???

There are 2 famous cases of nuts and bolts ETs in Brasil, Varginha and Bianca & Herminio case.

1. In Varginha, one policeman died after carrying one of the injured ETs on his lap on their way to the hospital. The policeman body defense system shut down and he died weeks later.The fact no one took a picture of this guy carrying the ET into the emergency room is very suspicious.
2. Bianca and Herminio were kidnapped with car and all Betty & Barney style and met Karran. This Karran and his crewmates looked like this:

http://www.gnosisonline.org/wp-cont...o-bianca-reis-karran-gnosisonline-240x235.jpg
Supposedly other ufologists have met Karran as well as he sometimes visit Bianca. But where are all the pictures?

Am I being bad not believing in them? That is how I feel people think of me if I question. Those 2 cases are almost sacred here.

To answer your question, you're very smart to not believe. You are an excellent research person, and you know a lot about the Brazilian ET-UFO cases too! Soooo, when you have time, no rush, please do start some threads topics on these Brazilian cases. (You are probably very busy, so even in the next few months would be great.) I think these are EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for everyone not living in Brazil to learn a lot more about these cases. Thankfully, Gene did a lot of Paracast interviews with Gevaerd (the most famous ufologist in Brazil), and these are excellent to get some significant information about the most famous ET-UFO cases in Brazil. Just search on his name 'Gevaerd' at the Paracast show search engine, and you can download these for free to listen to now or later.

 

[Fedora Chronicles]

I haven't had this much fun watching a fight since the final monster battle in this years GODZILLA!

 

[stan w.]

Great show!
Stan is an extremely listenable guest and has a good sense humor
Plus he is being able to get his points of view across without any character cheap shots
.I especially like his past experience as a nuclear scientist who Actually worked in cutting edge projects.
That part IMO was the best of the interview.
All in all,one of the best shows

 

[Ufocurious]

You are an excellent research person, and you know a lot about the Brazilian ET-UFO cases too! Soooo, when you have time, no rush, please do start some threads topics on these Brazilian cases.

DissectionStalker
I am an Internet researcher.LOL
I only met Gevaerd and Petit because I went to the Contatados Forum in 2013 and 2014.
My only advantage is that I can read all opinions and watch the videos in Portuguese.
In order to start a thread I will have to do a better research effort, such as reading books and weave amongst the different ufologists conclusions in order to find congruences and contradictions. But I will do some time, just not soon.

 

[SRL+]

It is times like these in which I miss Jim Moseley most, as he would call a spade, a spade, in cutting through a lot of the nonsense in the UFO community. Jim would most likely be pleased that I posted this in knowing that Stanton could not possibly pursue him legally in the hereafter. For those of you that haven’t heard this interview as of yet.., it’s absolutely priceless.

This was Jim Moseley’s last appearance on the Paracast. Of interest is Jim’s impression of Stanton Friedman which starts at the 34:19 min. mark. If Mr. Friedman is watching this thread, he may want to listen and then comment through conciliator, Gene Steinberg. I do believe this is relevant and on topic, as it speaks directly to Mr. Friedman’s research.

In knowing that this may raise a few hackles, please don’t shoot me, as I’m just the messenger here.

https://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_120715.mp3

 

[DissectionStalker]

I miss Jim Moseley. He's EXACTLY right that Stanton knows how to deal the UFO deck of cards to win the BIG money, and to hell with the REAL truth -so Moseley definitely believed. ET-UFO's and Roswell is a poisoned well right from the beginning!!! And, DECADES later when Friedman took it up, he was already duped by another preemptive Air Force Disinformation Campaign.

From my other post:

Top Secret Majic ... [& Roswell PSYOPS]
"Friedman attempts to authenticate purported MJ-12 documents that mysteriously appeared in 1984 and 1994." "However on page 20 Friedman admits that Jaime Shandera was to be the director of a movie about UFO's proposed circa 1980. A movie in which Friedman was to act as a technical consultant."

Also, the Forward to this book is none other than: Whitley Strieber (The man that popularized the ET anal probe technique.)
--------------------------------------------
Why Roswell is Ludicrous to be ET-UFO...

1) ET's do NOT travel light years only to crash near Military Test Ranges and Nuclear Weapons Flight Command. STINKS. Yes, it's true, ONLY HUMANS crash their UFO's. SMELLS RIGHT.

2) It seems Friedman's Roswell FITS PERFECTLY within the Air Force OSI Campaign of Disinformation. A FACT. AND, the friggin stories match-up too! See: Doty/Moore/Collins. Why continue on with disinformation to fit belief systems designed by Air Force OSI ???

You've been PYSOPS.

3) The debris and symbol "evidence" found can ALL have EASY Human made explanations, period. The flimsy, thin, "flexible return", "koolcrap" that was found hardly matches-up with even airplane grade "quality materials" made in that "antiquated" time frame to survive Earth's atmosphere (for one flight) much less a friggin Space Faring ET-UFO which DO NOT CRASH anyway!

4) Roswell IS Mythology with "theme park" money making. A for-profit faith of the ET-UFO belief systems. It is a money making machine, and Stanton Friedman is invested big-time to make big-money on it. He is an original investor that has risen profitably with the tide of a Propaganda Story, and Air Force OSI PSYOPS is the foundation of it all.

Richard Doty was assigned as an Air Force OSI agent to run a propaganda disinformation campaign regarding Roswell with ET UFO crash and surviving ET that could be "interviewed" starting in the late '70's and running in the '80's. He said 'WE' were read-in to the program, so if we are to believe Doty this was absolutely no accident. This is confirmed by other people too!

Jim Moseley and Chris O'Brien both agreed that Stanton Friedman does not reverse his positions. He digs his heels in, so there is a sense of stubbornness relating to a confident ego too. Once he analyzes a case... Quoting: "I never heard Stanton admit that maybe he was wrong, never." Sorry, that's just the way it is implied and spoken about on the Paracast. Moseley complained that Stanton agrees with all the UFO people on the lecture circuit, thus he refuses to critique his peers or disagree [at least publicly] with their positions.

Sympathetically, I don't think Mr. Friedman will change his mind at age 80, since he built his case on people he believes in. I predict he'll defend his positions, and dismiss Richard Doty, and just ignore the Air Force OSI Disinformation Campaign that began in the late 1970's as irrelevant and "unprovable".

I agree with Jim Moseley that the Roswell ufology has done wonders for the city's tourist industry and ET "city pride". UFO's that crash the imagination make money!

 

[Ufocurious]

The discussion is news on the UFO Brazilian magazine site:
Revista UFO - Portal da Ufologia Brasileira - A mais antiga revista sobre discos voadores do mundo

Novo livro de James Carrion causa polêmica
Ex-diretor da MUFON responde a críticas de Stanton Friedman e questiona em entrevista os rumos da Ufologia

 

[manxman]

It is times like these in which I miss Jim Moseley most, as he would call a spade, a spade, in cutting through a lot of the nonsense in the UFO community. Jim would most likely be pleased that I posted this in knowing that Stanton could not possibly pursue him legally in the hereafter. For those of you that haven’t heard this interview as of yet.., it’s absolutely priceless.

This was Jim Moseley’s last appearance on the Paracast. Of interest is Jim’s impression of Stanton Friedman which starts at the 34:19 min. mark. If Mr. Friedman is watching this tread, he may want to listen and then comment through conciliator, Gene Steinberg. I do believe this is relevant and on topic, as it speaks directly to Mr. Friedman’s research.

In knowing that this may raise a few hackles, please don’t shoot me, as I’m just the messenger here.

https://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_120715.mp3

So was Typhoid Mary.

 

[Fedora Chronicles]

To answer your question, you're very smart to not believe. You are an excellent research person, and you know a lot about the Brazilian ET-UFO cases too! Soooo, when you have time, no rush, please do start some threads topics on these Brazilian cases. (You are probably very busy, so even in the next few months would be great.) I think these are EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for everyone not living in Brazil to learn a lot more about these cases. Thankfully, Gene did a lot of Paracast interviews with Gevaerd (the most famous ufologist in Brazil), and these are excellent to get some significant information about the most famous ET-UFO cases in Brazil. Just search on his name 'Gevaerd' at the Paracast show search engine, and you can download these for free to listen to now or later.

Such a great post... I had to take you off my ignored list.

1) ET's do NOT travel light years only to crash near Military Test Ranges and Nuclear Weapons Flight Command. STINKS. Yes, it's true, ONLY HUMANS crash their UFO's. SMELLS RIGHT.

So you mean to tell me that these organic, thinking creatures are infallible. This highlights one of my problems with some aspects of UFOlogy and interests in the paranormal/unexplained phenomenon – many of us have replaced angels and other “perfect” spiritual mythical beings with aliens. They are mere walking and thinking meat-sticks like us here at home, if they’re made out of flesh and bone and grey matter (oooh… bad pun) that means they’re just as prone to the problems we face.

I also think that Mr. Friedman has a good theory; all of these abduction cases are actually biology students from another planet doing their final doctoral projects, part of an interstellar program to figure out what the funk is wrong with us and where we went wrong, or perhaps we’re products of a genetic experiment gone horrible wrong and Earth is a dumping ground.

The genuine issue at hand here are people fighting for dominance over who’s theory is better and should be the only theory worth perpetuating. We’re a bunch of nerds and geeks debating theoretical “what-ifs” about a historical event we weren’t even there to witness. We’re only a little better than the sports-dorks with their on-line fantasy football or those jocks who never made it past high school football and like to play Monday Morning quarter-back… “If Coach didn’t hate me and cut me from the team, and I was able to play college ball before going pro… I would have made that touchdown!”

This is EXACTLY like high school, when there was two “King Of The Geeks,” me and this other character. I had my posy and he had his. One time a couple of his friends came to sit at our table and get our goats; “Hey, just want you to know… I don’t like ‘Raiders Of The Lost Ark’ that much.” And he was waiting for me to punch him in the mouth.

I replied – “That’s OK… I bet there are something’s you like that I don’t.”

“You mean, you don’t think ‘Robotech’ rules”

“Dude… I’ve never even seen an episode of ‘Robotech.’ But it seems interesting.”

“Wait… you’re not pissed that I don’t love ‘Raiders?’”

“Why should it, it’s not a religion. Is it? We’re nerds, we should have an open mind. Your opinion shouldn’t affect mine unless mine is weak and fragle.”

Next thing you know… the other king of the geeks was pissed that all of his old friends were ‘stupid’ because nobody likes his stuff as much as him. We have king of the geeks, Stan “The Man” Friedman and James “Buy My Book!” Carrion. Two have opposing view points and their pissing match are playing out here in this forum.

I totally believe that James Carrion thinks his theory is the absolute truth. And I totally believe that Stan Friedman thinks his theory or theories are the absolute truth. I can entertain both theories and enjoy the discussions until things get personal. Then my dark side is unleashed. [/evil-laugh]

 

[SRL+]

So was Typhoid Mary.

I believe you’re mistaken, as Typhoid Mary was gainfully employed in the food service industry, and was never a member of The National Association of Letter Carriers. Ironically enough, if having been a member of that union, her health care benefits may have been substantially increased, in providing enhanced health care coverage.

 

[manxman]

Metaphor | Define Metaphor at Dictionary.com

 

[SRL+]

Metaphor | Define Metaphor at Dictionary.com

Satire | Define Satire at Dictionary.com

 

[James Carrion]

Such a great post... I had to take you off my ignored list.

The genuine issue at hand here are people fighting for dominance over who’s theory is better and should be the only theory worth perpetuating.

Next thing you know… the other king of the geeks was pissed that all of his old friends were ‘stupid’ because nobody likes his stuff as much as him. We have king of the geeks, Stan “The Man” Friedman and James “Buy My Book!” Carrion. Two have opposing view points and their pissing match are playing out here in this forum.

I totally believe that James Carrion thinks his theory is the absolute truth. And I totally believe that Stan Friedman thinks his theory or theories are the absolute truth. I can entertain both theories and enjoy the discussions until things get personal. Then my dark side is unleashed. [/evil-laugh]

This is not a pissing contest, nor a debate about whose theory is better, it is about using the scientific method - propose a theory - show evidence - wait for someone else to disprove your theory WITH evidence to the contrary.

As for your "buy my book" comment, I had to laugh, as I don't need to make a living off of this, I am gainfully employed in the computer field.

I don't believe my theory is absolute truth, that is just what the evidence shows so far, until someone comes along and disproves my theory with documented research.