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Something From Nothing - a conversation w/ Richard Dawkins & Lawrence Krauss

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stonehart

stonehart

Paranormal Adept
Very interesting discussion between Dawkins and Krauss that is well worth the time to listen to.

NOTE THIS IS NOT TO START A RELIGIOUS DEBATE!

Just listen to it and enjoy it for what it is.

Also Admins if you wish to lock this thread now to stop a debate then please go ahead as I think we have all had enough for a few months at least :D


as always peace all
 
WELL SHOVE IT UP YOU.....:p Just kiddin! I kid the atheist and the deist and whoever else. :p ROFLMAO! I kill me! :D That means I think I'm funny. Not that I actually errr kill....:p
 
I love when Krauss says, "We'll try and offend as many people as we can tonight" after he mentions the republican candidates when Dawkins says no reasonable person can deny what Darwin discovered.

He's right, by the way.
 
Actually, Angel I have no problem at all with Darwin. Although, if you read the history of the physical sciences Darwin didn't actually "discover" he published first. But, I digress. What some of us reasonable people do question is the extrapolation (read philosophy) that Mr. Dawkins "directs" (dare I say designs?) us toward. :p

The thing that you would not have done to yourself....Do not do to others....The Buddha!
Now I'm not a religious man..but if your up there superman...help me!....Homer Simpson
Some people are educated waaay beyond their intelligence....Jerry Clower (southern humorist)
 
What is he directing you towards? That evolution occurred naturally without the help of some omnipotent creator? That's what the science shows. If one chooses to ignore that, they may.
 
Sigh! :rolleyes: I'm sure you are right Angel. You are nothing more than a meatbot on a cold barren mistake of a world. You and all that you love are simply the after affects (afterbirth?) of a glorious march to oblivion by souless consciousless processes. A noise or a play written by nothing and performed by idiots leading to a glorious end that you will have no more to do with than a roach bug. Have fun with that kiddo. You are welcome to it. I just find Mr. Dawkins worldview to be sterile and cynical and a little bit angry. I also just simply disagree. As for needing a God...I have seen nothing in the way the earth is made and the way the cosmos works that convinces me at all that it's a cosmic accident. Mr. Dawkins is selling a philosphy not science in this case. But, hang on to it if it works for you. But, understand some of us are "educated" and still don't accept that worldview. God (to me) is not a daddy in the sky. But, I don't want to get into that now. Seems that's not a civil discussion these days on this board. But, imo you are so very wrong Angel. But, that's OK cause I find you to be very bright and reasonable in many cases. Just the secular humanism where you seem (imo) to lose perspective. :cool:
 
It's interesting that you put it that way. Why, if that were the case would it bother you so much? Do you think I love my wife and daughter any less than you do because of that? Who cares if there's nothing else out there - enjoy what you have now because that's all you get.
 
There are times when what you say on a message board gets lost in the translation. For instance I have a very literal mind. Always have had. It's one reason I had to leave the "church" as far as theology and dogma goes. I could never understand how you could tell somebody they were going to hell and be so flip about it. Praise God and pass the ammo. But, the flip side of that is I also look at secular humanism with the same lens. When you tell me I'm nothing but the after affect (not even talking after life here) of a random process and that actually I and my son and my loved ones are nothing more than a chemical reaction (ya can't prove it but you still take it as dogma) then I really do take it literally. So, to me if that's all that a person is then a person is not a real being at all. A person is a chemical reaction to a biological mass of matter and is in effect a "meatbot." So, there is no real responsibilty or way to make rational judgement at all. You can't honestly say Hitler was wrong anymore than a lion is wrong for eating it's male cub to keep away competion. The satanist (do what thou will) are the only ones that are not hypocritial and the rest of us are simply marching to a bloody and sad ending that in actuality mean nothing. I think some of you here honestly and really put up a guard just the same as religous folks do. That's way you defend humanism. Not because it's right or logical but because if you look at it with no other defense mechanism it will be to brutal. Your pretty little words just want stand up to the reality of it. Anyway, that's kind of how I look at it.
 
Finally, if I were an athiest I would be a satanist. I promise you I'm not. ;) I say that because a satanist does not believe in satan or god or anything else. But, they don't pretend a morality and they are honest with themselves. They take what they want and when they want as long as they can get away with it. After all if it all comes to nothing anyway then there is really no "logical" reason for the illusion of love of anything but yourself. Now, some people do admit this and they are true atheist and I can at least respect their honesty. But, some want to play because it sounds good and you can dance to it. That is until you turn on the light and really look at what you are saying. This is not a scientific (nor can it be debunked scienfically) response. This is honestly what I think when I really and truly look at what words mean and what the ultimate truth of a belief system is. Take it or sugar coat it and Darwin bless you. Lavey too. ;)
 
Sorry Tyder, but you have a skewed view of what an atheist is. I know plenty of people that don't believe in any kind of god and they are good people. You need to be careful with how you define it.
Look up how much evil atheist Bill Gates gives back to society. Although he may be making up for what he wrought with giving society Windows ME.
 
Doesn't have anything at all to do with what I said. I simply told you what I think. I made no accusation that atheist couldn't be good folks. I think you are good folks. But, it doesn't change what I wrote and what I feel is true. You have a remarkable habit or talent for picking out a word or phrase and therefor being able to dodge the parts of an argument or statement that make you uncomfortable. Hang on to that. It may be your only defense as you get older. I think we all do it (me included) to some extent. :cool:
 
I simply put some of my thoughts out there in general about a world view and why I find it an imcomplete view. It's funny, that I can tell ya what I find wrong with religion and there's no problem. But, mention your own worldview and it goes to Def Con 1 Right away. :p
 
It's OK Angel. I understand and a few more folks will chime in soon to either call me a religious retard (which won't bother you either) or a simplisitic uninformed anti science imbecile. I assure you I'm neither. But, hold on to the old worldview. I'm sure you and Richard D. are right.
 
Do I hear a "Pixel tyder, I think we should just give it up - we'll have to agree to disagree." moment, coming soon , or continued inconsistency in dealing with threads?
 
Folks, I don't, I honestly don't care what you believe in. You think aliens abducted you and stopped a clock and transported you through the wall? I don't mind. You think lightning hit a priordial pool and all life started by accident? I don't care. You think aliens seeded earth and are coming back to claim their real estate? More power to ya. I try to be respectful of everyone here as far as they will let me. I read some stuff here that makes my head hurt. :eek: But, I don't say anything because it seems to work for the people who see it that way. But, I see a big disconnect the minute somebody says "Well, I think there is a purpose to the universe." All of a sudden all the gloves come off. I've seen people who are very nice on one thread become raving idiots and jerks when somebody dares to say a word about faith. I don't think this is the place for church or religous theology. But, nobody should be intimidated or harrassed because they dare to say "I believe in a supreme cause or I believe consciosness is primary and not a secondary mistake. I know (first hand) the damage religious intolerance and fanactics can do. I could tell ya war stories. But, I also know first hand the comfort that faith can bring a young mother who just lost a child or an adult that just lost a parent. Angel, you often say "Be careful" when it comes to describing folks that hold your worldview. My hope for you is that you come to understand the importance of turning those words onto yourself and looking at your own motives. I hold some folks here who believe differently than me in high reguard as far as I know them. Which on an internet forum is very limited. But, I often just hush when they start talking about their atheism or their "scientific facts of life." Not because I agree with them or because I'm afraid they are right. But, because after a while it really does become "my scientist/god can beat up your scientist/god." I somtime think I do indeed have a problem. My problem is this life long ability/curse of not being able to choose a "team" to the derision of the other team. I tend to look at both sides and that keeps me both sane and calm and yet a little to movable and pliable when it comes to an old fashioned gloves off argument. Oh well.

Peace.
Steve.
 
tyder001 said:
It's OK Angel. I understand and a few more folks will chime in soon to either call me a religious retard (which won't bother you either) or a simplisitic uninformed anti science imbecile. I assure you I'm neither. But, hold on to the old worldview. I'm sure you and Richard D. are right.
Click to expand...

But I'm not calling you any names. I'm just pointing out that you have a skewed view of what an atheist or agnostic (which is what I think I am) is. Just because we don't think there's some sort of god commanding the way the universe works does not make us anything but other human beings.
 
tyder001 said:
Doesn't have anything at all to do with what I said. I simply told you what I think. I made no accusation that atheist couldn't be good folks. I think you are good folks. But, it doesn't change what I wrote and what I feel is true. You have a remarkable habit or talent for picking out a word or phrase and therefor being able to dodge the parts of an argument or statement that make you uncomfortable. Hang on to that. It may be your only defense as you get older. I think we all do it (me included) to some extent. :cool:
Click to expand...

I'm curious - what part do you think makes me uncomfortable? I didn't feel any of what you wrote made me uncomfortable. It just made me wonder why you feel that way.
 
Angel, I know you are not calling names. ;) neither am I. But, you are also not really engaging the statements either. The skewed view might even come into clearer focus with a good mirror. Just sayin. :p
 
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