• SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY A PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, five years young! For a low subscription fee, you will be able to download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive After The Paracast podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! FLASH! For a limited time, you can save up to 40% on your subscription. You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

remote veiwer challange

Bob Watson

Paranormal Adept
If the Paracast ever host a remote veiewer I post this challange. I send it to coast to coast but never get a response.
I own a item of rare historical value. the item would be placed on my dining room table. I live in madison wisconsin (futhere address info will be sent to Gene) Before the show Gene tells the remote veiwer the inforrmation so he can remote veiw the item. I will place the Item on my kichen table visable from every angle. the challange is simple Identify the item.
I will upon request tell Gene and ONLY gene the item so he can verify the accurcy of the veiwing I will post here NO info on the nature of the item except to say its rare and has historical value.
This is a test to see wheter a veier has a the ability to do as he says he dose.
I hope you guys have intrest in this challange and i look forward to helping you uncover frauds.
I DO NOT NEED TO APPER ON THES SHOW NOR WISH TO DO SO TO FACITATE THIS CHALLANGE.
having Gene know the nature of the challange and the item is enough!
BOB
FOR THE TRUTH!
i will be happy to answer any question Gene or any mod has on this post and challange I enter it with an open mind and am willing to admit the veiwer has won!(If he has!)
 
P

pixelsmith

Guest
That would be fun. I have a whole bunch of remote viewing training tapes. I will listen to them and learn all I can.

BTW - Is the item a Confederate Army belt buckle?
 

spacebrother

Greg Bishop
So, if he/ she gets it wrong, does that mean he/ she is a fraud? If the definition of fraud is "it doesn't work every time" then ALL remote viewers are frauds.

Babe Ruth didn't hit a home run every time. Many people apply the wrong standard to parapsychology research, in my opinion. I believe that the effect is real, since I have experienced it myself more than once with what I think was no chance of knowing beforehand. Maybe all we can get right now is occasional evidence of nonlocal communication. I think that's significant.

The test is designed to convince you and you only of the effect. That's not a knock on your honesty, just an observation of what people will say whether it works or not.
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
We've done a challenge before here. It was with photos/images though. One guy did well imo. One person did not. Anyway, good luck with your idea. Hope something becomes of it.

BTW. Was that experiment that was done I am referring to, ever get any air time? Curious what was said about it. If so, what show? Thanks.
 

Ron Collins

Curiously Confused
The test is designed to convince you and you only of the effect. That's not a knock on your honesty, just an observation of what people will say whether it works or not.
I was about to post something very similar to this. It would be fun but ultimately it would not prove or disprove anything.
 

The Pair of Cats

a.k.a Philip Deane
If the Paracast ever host a remote veiewer I post this challange. I send it to coast to coast but never get a response.
I own a item of rare historical value. the item would be placed on my dining room table. I live in madison wisconsin (futhere address info will be sent to Gene) Before the show Gene tells the remote veiwer the inforrmation so he can remote veiw the item. I will place the Item on my kichen table visable from every angle. the challange is simple Identify the item.
I will upon request tell Gene and ONLY gene the item so he can verify the accurcy of the veiwing I will post here NO info on the nature of the item except to say its rare and has historical value.
This is a test to see wheter a veier has a the ability to do as he says he dose.
I hope you guys have intrest in this challange and i look forward to helping you uncover frauds.
I DO NOT NEED TO APPER ON THES SHOW NOR WISH TO DO SO TO FACITATE THIS CHALLANGE.
having Gene know the nature of the challange and the item is enough!
BOB
FOR THE TRUTH!
i will be happy to answer any question Gene or any mod has on this post and challange I enter it with an open mind and am willing to admit the veiwer has won!(If he has!)
And if no-one takes up your challenge? Maybe invest in a spell checker.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
The only way to verify things like this is through long series of controlled experiments conducted by some "disinterested" party. The JREF million dollar challenge would be a good start although I understand that many folks are going to balk about that insisting that Randi has some preconceived agenda to push. I don't think so, and I think properly designed protocols would largely prevent this, but that's just me. On the other hand, I think someone who could actually "remote view" with any reliability would not be subjecting themselves to testing or performing for the entertainment of others on radio shows and what have you. It would be much safer and profitable to keep such an ability out of the public eye. I don't think you would want to attract the attention of those who would no doubt be very interested in exploiting you.
 

spacebrother

Greg Bishop
The only way to verify things like this is through long series of controlled experiments conducted by some "disinterested" party. The JREF million dollar challenge would be a good start although I understand that many folks are going to balk about that insisting that Randi has some preconceived agenda to push. I don't think so, and I think properly designed protocols would largely prevent this, but that's just me. On the other hand, I think someone who could actually "remote view" with any reliability would not be subjecting themselves to testing or performing for the entertainment of others on radio shows and what have you. It would be much safer and profitable to keep such an ability out of the public eye. I don't think you would want to attract the attention of those who would no doubt be very interested in exploiting you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when remote viewer Joe McMoneagle said he would take Randi's challenge, Randi balked at his suggestion that a mutually agreed-upon third party should keep the RV target in their possession. Randi said that only he could be trusted. I don't think that this was part of the JREF challenge though. It's things like this that have always made me doubt James Randi's supposed "pure" motives.
 

Kandinsky

Curious Cat
The JREF million dollar challenge would be a good start although I understand that many folks are going to balk about that insisting that Randi has some preconceived agenda to push. I don't think so, and I think properly designed protocols would largely prevent this, but that's just me.
There's an important clause in the conditions of the Randi challenge that prevents most remote-viewers being tested. Candidates must be well known and have a media presence. This rules out all but a handful of guys. Challenge Application

Last year there was a Twitter/New Scientist experiment carried out in three stages iirc, the final results weren't good...Twitter Experiment s Blog

I followed the experiment with interest because I struggle to accept the reality of RV and was curious to see such ideas challenged. Yeah I'm open to the possibility and persuaded by the comments of people who know/have met RVers. Still, it's a lot to swallow and hard to explain in the light of extraordinary rendition, torture and the surveillance state.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when remote viewer Joe McMoneagle said he would take Randi's challenge, Randi balked at his suggestion that a mutually agreed-upon third party should keep the RV target in their possession. Randi said that only he could be trusted.
I have to admit I never heard this before. Where is this documented? Google isn't cooperating with me or something. It's been a while but I did read some of the JREF test protocols about some other claim years ago and it involved the use of a third party, so it would surprise if that was a sticking point. I don't try to read Randi's mind or guess about his motives I just look at his work. He has exposed some real bastards like Peter Popoff and ridiculous fakes like Uri Keller over the years. What's hard to read in that?

---------- Post added at 02:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------

There's an important clause in the conditions of the Randi challenge that prevents most remote-viewers being tested. Candidates must be well known and have a media presence. This rules out all but a handful of guys. Challenge Application
Well it doesn't eliminate all of them. Hell, there are books and courses being offered by them a plenty.
 

The Pair of Cats

a.k.a Philip Deane
Below are the rules concerning the JREF challenge:

The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.
At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."
To date, no one has passed the preliminary tests.



Rules

Application for Status of Claimant
[This became effective on Sunday, April 1st, 2007, replacing the previous version of the Application; the nature of the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge in regard to those to who may now apply, has now changed substantially.]
This statement outlines the rules covering the offer made by this Foundation (JREF) concerning psychic, supernatural or paranormal claims. Since claims vary greatly in character and scope, specific rules must be formulated for each applicant. All applicants must agree to the rules set forth herein before any formal agreement can be entered into. Completing this form is mandatory; there are no exceptions to this rule.
Applicant will declare agreement by signing this form where indicated before a notary public and returning the form to the James Randi Educational Foundation. Applicant must state clearly what is being claimed as the special ability upon which they wish to be tested, and test protocols must be agreed upon by both parties before any testing will take place. All tests must be designed in such a way that the results are self-evident, so that no judging or voting process is required. We do not design the protocol independently of the applicant, who must provide clear guidelines so that the test(s) may be properly designed and carried out.
All applicants must clearly identify themselves properly before any discussion takes place. Applicants must supply the JREF with a proper postal mailing address, and an e-mail address – if one is available.
This offer is administered by the JREF, and no one may negotiate or make any changes, except as set forth in writing by James Randi (JR). All correspondence must be written, and will be answered, in English only, except that properly-prepared translations into English accompanied by certification of the qualifications of the translator, will be accepted. Upon properly completing this document and agreeing upon the test protocol, applicant will receive the application back, signed by JR. At that point, the applicant becomes eligible for the preliminary test, which, if successful, will result in the formal test.
THE SIXTEEN OFFICIAL RULES GOVERNING THE JREF CHALLENGE:
I, James Randi, through the JREF, will pay US$1,000,000 [One Million Dollars/US] to any person who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions. Such demonstration must take place under the following rules and limitations:
1. This is the primary and most important of these rules: Applicant must state clearly in advance, and applicant and JREF will agree upon, what powers and/or abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed demonstration (so far as time, location and other variables are concerned) and what will constitute both a positive and a negative result.
2. Only an actual performance of the stated nature and scope, within the agreed-upon limits, will be accepted. Anecdotal accounts or records of previous events are not accepted nor considered.
3. We will consult competent statisticians when an evaluation of the experimental design, is required. We have no interest in theories nor explanations of how the claimed powers might work; if an applicant provides us with such material, it will be ignored and discarded.
4. Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the setup, the protocol, and the actual testing, may be used freely by the JREF.
5. After an agreement is reached on the protocol, no part of the testing procedure may be changed in any way without the further agreement – in writing – of all parties concerned. JR may or may not be present at some preliminary or some formal tests, but he will not interact with the materials used, nor with the protocol, unless specifically requested to do so by the applicant.
6. In all cases, applicant will be required to perform a preliminary test either before an appointed representative, if distance and time dictate that need, or in a location where a member or representative of the JREF staff can attend. This preliminary test is to determine if the applicant is likely to perform as promised during a formal test, using the agreed-upon protocol. To date, no applicant has passed the preliminary test, and this has eliminated the need for formal testing in those cases. There is no limit on the number of times an applicant may re-apply, but re-application can take place only after 12 months have elapsed since the completion of the preliminary test.

7. All of the applicant's expenses such as transportation, accommodation, materials, assistants, and/or all other costs for any persons or procedures incurred in pursuit of the reward, are the sole responsibility of the applicant. Neither the JREF nor JR will bear any of the costs.
8. When entering into this challenge, as far as this may be done by established legal statutes, the applicant surrenders any and all rights to legal action against Mr. Randi, and/or against any persons peripherally involved, and/or against the James Randi Educational Foundation. This applies to injury, and/or accident, and/or any other damage of a physical and/or emotional nature, and/or financial and/or professional loss, and/or damage of any kind. However, this rule in no way affects the awarding of the prize, once it is properly won in accord with the protocol.
9. At the formal test, in advance, an independent person will be placed in charge of a personal check from James Randi for US$10,000. In the event that the claimant is successful under the agreed-upon terms and conditions, that check shall be immediately surrendered to the claimant, and within ten days the James Randi Educational Foundation will pay to the claimant the remainder of the reward, for a total of US$1,000,000. One million dollars in negotiable bonds is held by an investment firm in New York, in the "James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account" as surety for the prize funds. Validation of this account and its current status may be obtained by contacting the Foundation by telephone, fax, or e-mail.

10. Copies of this form are available free of charge to any qualified person who requests it, or it can be downloaded from the Internet, at http://www.randi.org/research/Challenge_Application.pdf.
11. This offer is made by James Randi through the JREF, on the behalf of no other person, agency or organization. Although others may become involved in the examination of claims and may add their reward money to the total in certain circumstances, James Randi (via the JREF) will carry out the implementation and management of the challenge. JREF will not entertain any demand that the prize money be deposited in escrow, displayed in cash, or otherwise produced in advance of the test being performed.
12. This offer is not open to any and all persons. Before being considered as an applicant, the person applying must satisfy two conditions: First, he/she must have a “media presence,” which means having been published, written about, or known to the media in regard to his/her claimed abilities or powers. This can be established by producing articles, videos, books, or other published material that specifically addresses the person’s abilities. Second, he/she must produce at least one signed document from an academic who has witnessed the powers or abilities of the person, and will validate that these powers or abilities have been verified.

13. An applicant can be from or in any part of the world, and gender, age, race, and educational background are not factors for acceptance.
14. This prize will continue to be offered until it is awarded. Upon the death of James Randi, the administration of the prize will pass into other hands, and it is intended that it continue in force.
15. EVERY APPLICANT MUST AGREE UPON WHAT WILL CONSTITUTE A CONCLUSION THAT, ON THE OCCASION OF THE PRELIMINARY OR THE FORMAL TEST, HE OR SHE DID OR DID NOT DEMONSTRATE THE CLAIMED ABILITY OR POWER.
16. This notarized form must be accompanied by a brief, two-paragraph description of what will constitute the demonstration. Upon a protocol being developed, that description may be extended.
PLEASE: Do not burden us with theories, philosophical observations, previous examples, anecdotal evidence or other comments! We are only interested in an actual demonstration.
NOTE: No special rules, exceptions, conditions, standards, or favors will be granted without the mutual agreement of all those concerned – in advance. Any applicant who refuses to agree to meet the rules as outlined here, will not be considered to have ever been an applicant. Only complete agreement with these rules will allow the "applicant" to become a "claimant." Applicant, by signing, notarizing and submitting this form, signifies agreement with all of the above rules. Be advised that you should conduct proper and secure tests of your own to determine whether your abilities or claims are actually valid.

This application will be signed by JR and returned to the applicant by mail after a test protocol has been mutually agreed upon, and a test date and location have been determined.

IMPORTANT: Only claims that can be verified by evidence under proper observing conditions will be accepted. Also, JREF will NOT accept claims of the existence of deities or demons/angels, the validity of exorcism, religious claims, cloudbusting, causing the Sun to rise or the stars to move, etc. JREF will also NOT test claims that are likely to cause injury of any sort, such as those involving the withholding of air, food or water, or the use of illicit materials, drugs, or dangerous devices.



James Randi:


________________________________________
James Randi Educational Foundation
201 S.E. 12th Street
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316-1815 U.S.A.

Notarized:





________________________________________
(signature of applicant)
Several applicants have suffered great personal embarrassment after failing these tests. I strongly advise you to conduct proper double-blind tests of any ability you believe you can demonstrate, before attempting to undergo testing for this prize. This has saved many applicants much time and work, by showing that the powers were quite imaginary on the part of the would-be claimant. Do not choose to ignore the need for such a precaution. This advice is offered only so that the applicant might be spared these problems.
 

bbridges

Paranormal Maven
Ricky-you must have checked out Joe McMoneagle, right? If not, maybe you could. What would it take for you to accept that his claims and testing results constitute evidence of the existence of such a faculty existing to various degrees in some people?
 

The Pair of Cats

a.k.a Philip Deane
Ricky-you must have checked out Joe McMoneagle, right? If not, maybe you could. What would it take for you to accept that his claims and testing results constitute evidence of the existence of such a faculty existing to various degrees in some people?
Good choice Bill. Also he could check out Ingo Swann and Hal Puthoff. Lynn Buchanan, Mel Riley and Paul Smith are worthy of some investigation as well.
 

bbridges

Paranormal Maven
I totally agree-just looking for a starting point after debating the existence of 'metaphysical phenomena' with my best friend. He vehemently denies the existence of anything metaphysical, spiritual or psychic. He is a member of the Shermer crowd, very intelligent- a brilliant cinematographer-who absolutely and categorically rejects even the remotest possibility of RV and anything to do with his broad unresearched scorn of 'spiritualism', which is used by con men to separate the gullible from their cash. Religion is a hoax, along with the Jewish bible, and always leads to 'ignorance, bigotry and hate." While these statements contain a great deal of observable validity, his 'baby out with the bathwater' dismissal is so full of strawdog and ad hominem arguments to make any reasonable discussion impossible. He read one review of somebody's book on the RV program that fed his bias and considers any further research unnecessary. He repeatedly uses the Randi challenge as his bottom line proof, since no one has ever won the prize. I consider T.O. a much more thorough and thoughtful skeptic, and so I wondered if understanding Ricky's skepticism might help me see things better from the viewpoint of someone- unlike myself- who has no recognized direct experience of many 'unexplainable' events. The built in condescension that accompanies any attempt to communicate personal experiences of this nature to the superior 'rational position' adopted by my friend, as well as Randi and Shermer's crowd with their 'patient tolerance' of poor 'wishful thinking' people like me appears hopelessly doomed. It's not that I need their validation: but more the fact that I see in their unrecognized smugness real obstacles to true understanding and the honest inquiry into the world we live in. Their ability to collapse arguments that pure logic recognizes as requiring separate domains, requiring more subtle approaches than their unrecognized and inflexible axiomatic responses, reinforces the chasm dividing us from any further progress.
 

The Pair of Cats

a.k.a Philip Deane
Great post Richard, totally agree. The people we have mentioned have approached the metaphysical from a scientific standpoint and often, as in the case of Joe McMoneagle, no preconceived ideas of what constitutes psychic or metaphysical phenomena. Others like Ingo Swann and Mel Riley were experiencing things from an early age, i believe. McMoneagle started experiencing strange phenomena after suffering a heart attack serving in the army while stationed in Germany. All of them studied and trained using very strict protocols and disciplines and in a very scientific manner.
For those who prefer a more scientific approach to subjects metaphysical these are the people to read up on. Alas i fear that once someone has a mind to dismiss these subjects as inconceivable and impossible (or having no basis in reality whatsoever) then it is near impossible to show them where to look.
I tend to think that Rick has a more open mind when it comes to research as you quite rightly have said.
 

bbridges

Paranormal Maven
Okay, here goes. The following are two email exchanges between me and my friend.I will remove his name to respect privacy.

My email to him last night:

[h=1]re ;Randi challenge-Since you have researched allll about it, here's somethings you should already know, right?




X
Inbox
X
[/h]



Reply



Richard Sarradet to baadmoon
show details 8:19 PM (16 hours ago)




"Correct me if I'm wrong, but when remote viewer Joe McMoneagle said he would take Randi's challenge, Randi balked at his suggestion that a mutually agreed-upon third party should keep the RV target in their possession. Randi said that only he could be trusted. I don't think that this was part of the JREF challenge though. It's things like this that have always made me doubt James Randi's supposed "pure" motives."--Greg Bishop

"There's an important clause in the conditions of the Randi challenge that prevents most remote-viewers being tested. Candidates must be well known and have a media presence. This rules out all but a handful of guys. Challenge Application

Last year there was a Twitter/New Scientist experiment carried out in three stages iirc, the final results weren't good...Twitter Experiment s Blog

I followed the experiment with interest because I struggle to accept the reality of RV and was curious to see such ideas challenged. Yeah I'm open to the possibility and persuaded by the comments of people who know/have met RVers. Still, it's a lot to swallow and hard to explain in the light of extraordinary rendition, torture and the surveillance state."--Kadinski

HIS response to me today:

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but when remote viewer Joe McMoneagle said he
> would take Randi's challenge, Randi balked at his suggestion that a
> mutually
> agreed-upon third party should keep the RV target in their possession.
> Randi
> said that only he could be trusted.
>


The reasons for control of RV target are SO obvious. You're dealing with charlatans. Oh yes, McMoneagle, Harold Putoff, Russell Targ et al are charlatans - exposed, thoroughly, in Martin Gardner's excellent book, "New Age: Notes of a Fringe Watcher". E.G. in Targ's book on RV, "Mind Race" he unequivocally states that he "won a lottery" whilst writing book (in order to finance it) using RV methods. Yes.He.Does.

Oh ... REALLY, Mr. Targ? So ... you could ... maybe ... win ME a lottery, too? You bet'cha. Mr. Targ and his charlatans will GLADLY take your money, introduce you to McMoneagle and have him remote view the winning numbers for you. Just ask 'em!

Rich, please, please, please - just read ONE chapter of Gardner's book - Chapter 7. I'll give it to you. Please. He will forever debunk this RV nonsense for you. Oh, and BTW, did you know that these guys are all ... Scientologists? And that RV is a TENET of Hubbard's Scientology? That the whole idea of RV came from Hubbard? Hmmmm?

> "There's an important clause in the conditions of the Randi challenge
> that
> prevents most remote-viewers being tested.
>


No. No. No. And no. JREF receives thousands of requests, mostly from kooks. To filter through them it requires some preliminary visual evidence, like on tape, TV, etc. of your psychic powers. BTW, renowned Psychic, Sylvia Browne who 'claims' she's helped "the FBI" in several cases agreed to the JREF challenge:


Then ... she avoided because she said she "couldn't find JREF or Randi" Really? She finds dead people but can't seem to find JREF?


Browne, John Edwards, van Praagh, McMoneagle and the rest of these frauds claim they "help the FBI" with murder cases - and The Teevee trumpets these claims because the programmers know there's nothing better than Psychic stuff for Sweeps Weeks. So they pour this bullshit out there every Feb, Nov, and May and that somehow legitimizes this stuff - which, BTW, is just fine with the ruling elite, keeping people superstitious & uninformed means - CONTROL.

Rich, RV is basically sitting in a quiet room and drawing sketchy pictures of — well, of anything, really — claiming psychic powers, because we're demonstrating the amazing psychic ability known as "remote viewing.":

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4044

All of these supposed RVers and Psychics use a method known as "cold reading". Psychics & RVers ALWAYS start with this: "I often see images that are a bit unclear and which may sometimes mean more to you than to me; IF YOU HELP, we can TOGETHER uncover new things about YOU." (emph. added):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

Ask yourself, if McMoneagle could really remote view - ANYTHING - why not go to Iraq/Afghanistan and RV the IEDs being planted that are killing so many people? Where was he on the run-up to 9/11? He'd had CIA-training. The reason that McMoneagle and/or any of these supposed RVers can't really help us is VERY OBVIOUS. It's because the whole RV paradigm is bullshit designed by charlatans to take your money. Period.

Bottom line: The JREF Millions are out there just waiting for any of these paranormal practitioners to step up and "show us the money". They come up with ALL SORTS OF EXCUSES to AVOID THE CHALLENGE. They could SHOW THE WORLD that paranormal exists. But they CAN'T.

Because IT DOESN'T EXIST. Frankly, I cannot understand why you waste your time on this stuff.

SO, now you can see what I mean. Should I even try or accept his last remark and drop it?













---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------

My probably final post to my friend on these matters:

[h=3]Religion and philosophy[/h]Gardner had an abiding fascination with religious belief. He was a fideistic deist, professing belief in God as Creator, but critical of organized religion. He has been quoted as saying that he regards parapsychology and other research into the paranormal as tantamount to "tempting God" and seeking "signs and wonders". He stated that while he would expect tests on the efficacy of prayers to be negative, he would not rule out a priori the possibility that as yet unknown paranormal forces may allow prayers to influence the physical world.[SUP][14][/SUP]
Gardner wrote repeatedly about what public figures such as Robert Maynard Hutchins, Mortimer Adler, and William F. Buckley, Jr.believed and whether their beliefs were logically consistent. In some cases, he attacked prominent religious figures such as Mary Baker Eddy on the grounds that their claims are unsupportable. His semi-autobiographical novel The Flight of Peter Fromm depicts a traditionally Protestant Christian man struggling with his faith, examining 20th century scholarship and intellectual movements and ultimately rejecting Christianity while remaining a theist. He described his own belief as philosophical theism inspired by the theology of the philosopher Miguel de Unamuno. While critical of organized religions, Gardner believed in God, asserting that this belief cannot be confirmed or disconfirmed by reason or science. At the same time, he was skeptical of claims that God has communicated with human beings through spoken or telepathic revelation or through miracles in the natural world.
Gardner's philosophy may be summarized as follows: There is nothing supernatural, and nothing in human reason or visible in the world to compel people to believe in God. The mystery of existence is enchanting, but a belief in "The Old One" comes from faithwithout evidence. However, with faith and prayer people can find greater happiness than without. If there is an afterlife, the loving "Old One" is probably real. "[To an atheist] the universe is the most exquisite masterpiece ever constructed by nobody", from G. K. Chesterton, was one of Gardner's favorite quotes.[SUP][14][/SUP]
[h=2]Controversy[/h]In addition to writing about mathematics, Gardner was an avid controversialist on contemporary issues, arguing for his points of view in a wide range of fields, from general semantics to fuzzy logic to watching TV (he once wrote a negative review of Jerry Mander's bookFour Arguments for the Elimination of Television).[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] His philosophical views are described and defended in his book The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener. Under the pseudonym "George Groth", Gardner panned his own book for the New York Review of Books.[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP] Although Gardner was a fierce critic of paranormal claims, under his "George Groth" pseudonym he wrote an article forFate magazine (October 1952, pp. 39–43) titled "He Writes with Your Hand," which touted the psychic abilities of mentalist Stanley Jaks as genuine.[SUP][20][/SUP]
Gardner has said that he suspects that the fundamental nature of human consciousness may not be knowable or discoverable, unless perhaps a physics more profound than ("underlying") quantum mechanics is some day developed. In this regard, he said, he was an adherent of the "New Mysterianism".
...Martin 'wasted' a great deal of his time and effort contemplating this 'stuff' with intellectual honesty instead of half-baked ad hominems, like, "they are scientologists", or that their motives are merely the pursuit of money.
Honestly, my dear and very bright friend, your judgments are so full of bias and intellectual arrogance that any further honest discussion, though it could not damage our friendship is in your own words probably a waste of time-even though Gardiner, whom I respect, did not consider it a waste of HIS time, and had the intellectual curiosity and honesty to investigate AND VALIDATE Stanley Jones. The difficulty notwithstanding, he "suspects that the fundamental nature of human consciousness may not be knowable or discoverable unless perhaps a physics more profound than ( "underlying" ) quantum mechanics is some day developed.


Those are HIS thoughts on the matter, and "wasting my time on this stuff" is at least intellectually honest and unpersuaded by your unsophisticated, limited research into RV or any other of these matters that your "OBVIOUS" (to borrow one of your bullying assumptive terms) emotional baggage does not permit you to pursue.
You do not need to be persuaded by me on any of these matters, since the denial of them fits so well in your current worldview. Let's agree to disagree, so that we can enjoy each other's company, while we hopefully continue to find the world a rich and curious place.

 

The Pair of Cats

a.k.a Philip Deane
Wow Rich you had an uphill battle there that's for sure. In the end, as you intimated, you can never present enough evidence to sway the mind of one who refuses to acknowledge the possibility or existence of metaphysical or psychical phenomena such as RV et al. Personally, much like yourself i guess, I preferred to take a hands on approach to these matters and sought to experience theses realities for myself. It is one thing to the read books or listen to the lectures of the proponents or indeed the opponents of the metaphysical and try to form some sort of personal philosophy around that second hand, sometimes third or fourth hand information and quite another to actually go out and try things for yourself.
Take the old "cold reading" chestnut that gets thrown out there when the debunkers discuss psychics. To them all psychics "cold read" their clients and people such as Sylvia Browne and James Van Praagh are dangled in front of us as perfect examples of ALL psychics, mediums and channellers. To me that just smacks of poor research and mimicry.
When I do readings for clients 90% of the reading is completed before the client even enters my home. I then deliver the information gleaned from my reading to the client BEFORE any comment is profferred by them. I make no claims or promises, i just let the info gathered speak for itself. The client then is free to tell me if or any of that information is relevant or true. They can also choose not to give me any feedback at all if they wish, it matters not. Visual or facial cues are also not a factor as all of the gathered information is written down PRIOR to the client entering my home and handed to them at the end of the reading. As for success rates, sometimes i miss completely, sometimes i have great successes, sometimes somewhere in between.
My point is that there are some excellent proponents out there, they just don't seek the limelight.
 

bbridges

Paranormal Maven
Thanks, PofC,

i thought it particularly ironic that he would choose Gardner, the "Mysterian"-talk about 'cherry-picking'-not to mention performers trying to popularize themselves and their skills when they must know the unpredictability of their gift. Beats a real day job, I guess. My friend in all other respects is an exceptional person-the best friend one could hope for-generous and supportive to a fault, bright and witty. I have learned so much about life, self respect, and courage through our friendship. My life and many others would be so much poorer in so many ways over the years without him. Perhaps his view of the world is necessary for him to have accomplished so much against the odds that his path required of him. My 'preoccupation' with these elusive questions have, on the other hand, not exactly produced 'actionable results' for me or my family. In the end, I guess, we must follow what captures our our attention, and honor it, no matter where it takes us.
 


Top