Randi's Million Dollar Challenge

[schticknz]

Via C2C ... a very interesting article about James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge to mediums, psychics, and those who can show similar paranormal abilities. He gets more of a bad guy to me every day ...

http://www.dailygrail.com/features/the-myth-of-james-randis-million-dollar-challenge

So ... Randi ... is he just a bit of an old fraud a bit like those he's trying to 'debunk'???

Any thoughts??

(Beard comments will be accepted )

 

[Jose Collado]

I think Randi is well versed in illusion but I give him credit for stating illusions as such. Whilst others state it as a "gift" or supernatural power. I just wonder what he'd do if he actually had to cut that money loose. Would he hand it over, or demand repetition over and over. It would suck if that check bounced after all these years.

I've come across plenty of crank psychics and miracle workers in my time. I'm public enemy number one in their books.

 

[Filer of False Complaints]

Randi a fraud? Is is/was a magician/illusionist.

he will never have to pay up, because psychics do not exist. Plain and simple.

He is the best thing that ever happened to the field.

 

[schticknz]

Randi a fraud? Is is/was a magician/illusionist.

he will never have to pay up, because psychics do not exist. Plain and simple.

He is the best thing that ever happened to the field.

Oh ok ... sorry ... my whole opinion of the universe, time and space, and beards has been totally overturned by your cogent argument.

I'll be told next that even though the universe is how old??? ... 14 maybe 15 billion years old ... that man is the only sentient life in universe ... blimey ... might be time for me to grow an enormous beard and to 'de-bunk' every sodding paranormal incident in the entire history of the human race and get away with it constantly ... oh damn ... thats been done already.

schtick ... again getting increasingly baffled by peoples naive and vacuously black and white view of the universe

 

[TClaeys]

Randi's testing conditions are so extreme that I don't know you could prove anything exists, much less some type of paranormal phenomenon. Just because you can't prove it via Randi's protocol doesn't really mean a damn thing. What the hell kind of an incentive is money to a person with a real gift?? It would perhaps transcend material things.

I'm not saying that psychics exist as I am very skeptical, but try proving hate or love in a Randi controlled forum. Could you do it?? I wonder if you could gather any proof for the big bang(matter apparently came from nowhere) or dark matter(it seems to exist and scientists are banking on it). Certain elements are not measurable, testable, and repeatable, but yet they exist.

 

[Filer of False Complaints]

My reply was not based on randi de-bunking anyone....

I'm just saying Randi won't have to pay, because psychics do not exist. Why should he not be tough on them? These people are claiming they have these special powers... atleast prove they can perform in an observable and scientific fashion and not have hits by pure coincidence. How tough could that be. There should still be anomolies in the testing even if they don't test 100%.

What the hell kind of an incentive is money to a person with a real gift??? I laughed out loud when I read that last post. This is a brutal statement to say, since Randi is trying to test people who make LOADS AND LOADS of cash off innocent people. Sylvia Browne, James Van Praagh, John Edward and Rosemary Altea are just a few reasons why Randi should be doing what he is doing... The rest of the[Frauds] would love to have thier money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQVAx5svtk

Where did I compare life in the universe and psychics??? Even though it has never been proven either... Obviously you don't know what my signature means... I think there should be life, but I have seen no proof.

 

[Columbine]

'...make loads and loads of cash off innocent people.'

Is it the same innocent people who engage mediums? If so, I have never come across any 'innocent people' who haven't wanted to speak with a medium. It never works the other way around i.e. mediums don't barge into peoples' houses and begin 'spouting off.' One would need to take the decision to visit one.

I don't know any rich ones either..or any fraudulent ones, come to that.

Columbine.

 

[Filer of False Complaints]

'...make loads and loads of cash off innocent people.'

Is it the same innocent people who engage mediums? If so, I have never come across any 'innocent people' who haven't wanted to speak with a medium. It never works the other way around i.e. mediums don't barge into peoples' houses and begin 'spouting off.' One would need to take the decision to visit one.

I don't know any rich ones either..or any fraudulent ones, come to that.

Columbine.

That is because these innocent people think they are getting the real deal... It is called being a victim.

WOW... you know a real medium or psychic. That is amazing. It is called COLD READING.

 

[TClaeys]

What the hell kind of an incentive is money to a person with a real gift??? I laughed out loud when I read that last post. This is a brutal statement to say, since Randi is trying to test people who make LOADS AND LOADS of cash off innocent people. Sylvia Browne, James Van Praagh, John Edward and Rosemary Altea are just a few reasons why Randi should be doing what he is doing... The rest of the[Frauds] would love to have thier money.

Lets get this straight because I don't think you understand my point. I'm not saying these people have any type of gift. In fact I am sickened by them. They are frauds definitely. But by saying psychics don't exist doesn't make it so. And just because Randi hasn't found the person to commit to his testing and pass doesn't make it so either. In this case money is the incentive to "show off your talents". Where maybe somewhere there is someone who doesn't indulge in this mass marketing virus and cold readings, etc. In other words perhaps they just exist in their own world to offer insight when applicable, but couldn't care less for money or showing their talents or whatnot.

This is something you can neither prove or disprove despite your opinions on the matter. And even though I tend to agree that they, in fact, do not exist, Randi's challenge does nothing because it only appeals to the frauds in the first place. A forum for the fakers to hang themselves and I wish they would do just that. But as far as psychic phenomenon, there are many strange things that perhaps need an explanation or defy it.

Where did I compare life in the universe and psychics??? Even though it has never been proven either... Obviously you don't know what my signature means... I think there should be life, but I have seen no proof.

My comments were not all directed at you, but were general comments concerning Randi. And I don't know that I said that you were comparing them, at least I didn't mean to if I did. I was just saying there are things that certainly exist, but we would be unable to prove them Randi-style because of his standards of testing. I mean, they do exist, but the Randi protocol would leave them unproven. At least that is how I see it.

 

[Filer of False Complaints]

I don't believe that Randi is the only catch all to the truth... And I also don't believe that the money should be an incentive either...

It should be about the truth. If they were real... they could step up to Randi, pass or prove something that would wow us... and then throw the cash/bonds back in his face or give it to charity.

I am sorry too... I thought most of that was directed at me.. and it almost seems we have the same stance on most of this stuff.

I think proving the truth would be hard, but not impossible.

 

[schticknz]

Where did I compare life in the universe and psychics??? Even though it has never been proven either... Obviously you don't know what my signature means... I think there should be life, but I have seen no proof.

schtick puts hand up ... I know what your signature is ... it's the Drake Equation ... which is, as we know, just a very hypothetical estimation of how many civilisations there are in the universe ... and probably needs some serious overhauling (although I know Frank Drake has tweaked it somewhat over the years).

My mention of other life in the universe was just trying to put forward the point that its totally illogical to say that 'psychics do not exist' since we know almost absolutely nothing about the universe around us, and its arrogant of us humans to even state something like that in any way.

I'm not a believer of 'angels' and 'demons' (for instance) either but again to say they don't exist ... full stop ... is a bit silly as we as a species have been around for only a split second in geological terms and who's to say that both of these are not just alien life forms of some kind or the after effects of another dimension/universe bleeding into our own ??? [again all total speculation of course ]

 

[Filer of False Complaints]

If you put it in those terms...

I will go on the record and say... there are no human psychics... Now. I don't know what will happen in the future... or I would be psychic. lol. If you showed me 1 supernatural person, that I think I would change my stance.

I don't think the drake equation is that far fetched, because I can prove life exist, so I an only imagine that some where, way out there, is another planet that got lucky and struck a balance like ourselves.

This scene is so polluted with kooks that it is even tough for me to believe in ufos let alone aliens from other planets. Every story I hear seems to be full of unreliable and non-verifiable BS. BUt don't get me wrong... I love listening to the good, the bad and the nonsensical(tribute to DB). But 99% of these characters that appear on these types of radio shows just make me laugh... and scared because some of them actually believe what they are saying(MH).

Side Note: The 2 biggest train wrecks I have ever listened too speak based on how arrogant they are, is hands down... David Icke and Michael Tsarion

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Randii will be dead soon and so will his trillion dollar challenge with it. And guess what? Psychics will still be around and so will the people who try, in vain, to debunk them.

The debunkers are no better than the people they try to discredit. They are just out there headline grabbing or trying to sell a book on how THEY are the go to guys/gals when it comes to debunking or starting a website to showcase their prowess.

Give it it up! You're not getting anywhere. You don't need knob heads like Randi or Shermer et al., to tell you that Edwards, Van Praagh, Sylvia Browne are full of shit.
Anyone with any sense can see that they are. The ones that can't, too bad for them. Let them get sucked into the scams and serve them right too.
Randi and Co. aren't out there to save the planet, they are out there to make a buck!

 

[Filer of False Complaints]

lol... I had my last post deleted... so ill PG13 this one for you... Sorry BD and GS.

I have no problem with people making money, but I would rather be on the debunking side though that the con-artist side.

and your right... normal people with ordinary abilities will always be around. No matter what.

 

[Rick Deckard]

I look at it like this - I don't know whether psychics are real or not.

If they were real and the 'spooks' knew this, then I would assume that psychics would become targets of the 'dark' world. Their 'powers' would be seen as an asset or a threat - they would either be 'recruited' or assassinated.

If all psychics are 'cold reading' their 'victims' then, so what? Are their victims getting some sort of comfort from what the psychics are telling them? Is that comfort any less valid than the comfort received from the church or a therapist?

Does it really matter?

This is where I really don't care for 'debunkers'. Yes, fake psychics who pray on vulnerable people are the scum of the earth - as are all the confidence tricksters and advertisers (same thing). If people are presented with the all the evidence and choose to ignore it, then who am I to try and save them from themselves?

You just can't help some people. Let them learn their own lessons.

BTW, has Randi ever challenged the church to prove the existence of God? If not, then I guess debunkers have double-standards too...

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

BTW, has Randi ever challenged the church to prove the existence of God? If not, then I guess debunkers have double-standards too...

Randi, an intelligent man, probably has at least a basic understanding of the concept of "faith," which, by definition, equates with belief rather than proof, making such a challenge totally meaningless. No one who really understands faith, as defined best by Soren Kierkegaard, would take such a challenge seriously.

 

[Rick Deckard]

Randi, an intelligent man, probably has at least a basic understanding of the concept of "faith," which, by definition, equates with belief rather than proof, making such a challenge totally meaningless. No one who really understands faith, as defined best by Soren Kierkegaard, would take such a challenge seriously.

Fair point - but people do seem to have some sort of 'faith' in the psychics, horoscopes and tarot cards etc, which is why I brought up the church.

I dunno, perhaps faith is the wrong term, but what other word should we use to explain some people's willingness to ignore the evidence (or more accurately, the lack of evidence) and continue to support and participate in these activities? Is 'self-delusion' the right term? What's the distinction between faith and self-delusion?

 

[Ankhes]

I care about the victims. The StopSylviaBrowne website drove it further home for me. At one time I said, "so what" if people were taken in but not anymore. If people feel that way that's okay. But I can't. Maybe I'm too much of a sap but I do care when desperate and grieving people are taken in. Some may be comforted (falsely or not I cannot say) but others are just plain exploited and hurt. And when a case is high profile the "mediums" and "psychics" descend. They are not always sought. Many do descend like vultures and I find that repulsive.

The MDC is one way one of these professed psychics could prove what they say they can do. And according the rules Randi himself need not even be present and all protocols are agreed upon by both sides prior to a test. But I no longer see why the money should be hanging around. I don't think anyone will ever win it after many tries and many years. It should go towards something more useful and it will in 2 years.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

Is 'self-delusion' the right term? What's the distinction between faith and self-delusion?

Perhaps there isn't a distinction between the two.

Another definition of faith that I like is the desire not to know the truth.

In fairness to religious people, however, self-delusion falls into the denial category, as in psychology, whereas faith is defined by the inability to feel or see the hand of God yet choosing to believe in it anyway. A truly faithful person (I do not consider myself one) is aware that he or she may be wrong, whereas a deluded person will not see this possibility.

A friend of mine, a Christian, "knows" that Jesus is God's son and that I will go to hell for not agreeing. He is deluded. One cannot know such an issue with the certainty that he attests. In my view, he doesn't understand faith. He's just deluded.

I hope that helps. Also, forgive me for being mean. I get snotty sometimes.

 

[Ankhes]

In fairness to religious people, however, self-delusion falls into the denial category, as in psychology, whereas faith is defined by the inability to feel or see the hand of God yet choosing to believe in it anyway. A truly faithful person (I do not consider myself one) is aware that he or she may be wrong, whereas a deluded person will not see this possibility.

I just want to say that I think you put that very well.