Paracast Episode 11/18/2007 with Paul Kimball

[Gene Steinberg]

The real conspiracy is by Americans (aka Gringos, aka Yankees) who think that Thanksgiving is in November, when everyone knows that it's really in October!

Heh, Canadian. I'm already wanting to eat the food, and it's just morning

I'm just finishing my morning coffee dosage, but we have a Caribbean Thanksgiving dinner already in the fridge -- take out from a local Cuban restaurant.

So we're taking a chance here, but I have my hopes.

 

[Verum]

Musictomyears wrote..

why did WTC7 collapse?

You're kidding, aren't you? First, ever hear of progressive collapse? Second, do you have any idea how absolutely impossible it is to outfit a major WORKING building in Manhattan for a controlled demolition, how many people are involved and how much time and effort is involved--and how does that happen with armies of employees (including maintenance staffs after hours) in the building virtually 24/7? Third, Silverstein's comment to the fire department to "pull" the building referred to pulling the firefighters given the intense heat and danger to them...and that's directly from Silverstein.

Come on! Get past this nonsense. These conspiracy myths are all premised upon bad engineering, faulty material science, misstatements of facts and circumstance and a complete suspension of common sense.

By the way, you are relying on the same dopey Alex Jonesian "evidence" for this myth as all the other WTC7 mythologists, aren't you? As I'd said, the "beliefs" of conspiracists can ultimately all be traced to exactly the same tinfoil wearing source.

 

[Verum]

Paul K wrote

The real conspiracy is by Americans (aka Gringos, aka Yankees) who think that Thanksgiving is in November, when everyone knows that it's really in October!

Well, that's because Canadians need the extra 11 months to think about exactly what it is they're thankful for.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

The real conspiracy is by Americans (aka Gringos, aka Yankees) who think that Thanksgiving is in November, when everyone knows that it's really in October!

Heh, Canadian. I'm already wanting to eat the food, and it's just morning

I'm just finishing my morning coffee dosage, but we have a Caribbean Thanksgiving dinner already in the fridge -- take out from a local Cuban restaurant.

So we're taking a chance here, but I have my hopes.

The quick and easy Thanksgiving. Having just your son over? I'm just going to be with my mother and father.

 

[musictomyears]

Silverstein's comment to the fire department to "pull" the building referred to pulling the firefighters

Wow. That's the most beautiful example of doublespeak I've come across in a while. "Silverstein's comment to the fire department to "pull" the building referred to pulling the firefighters." That's a classic. While Silverstein said one thing, he actually meant something completely different. "It" was a reference to "fire-fighters". How did I miss that? I must be dyslexic.

 

[Verum]

Musictomyears wrote...

Wow. That's the most beautiful example of doublespeak I've come across in a while. "Silverstein's comment to the fire department to "pull" the building referred to pulling the firefighters." That's a classic. While Silverstein said one thing, he actually meant something completely different. "It" was a reference to "fire-fighters". How did I miss that? I must be dyslexic.

Well, since that's what Silverstein himself and the fire department official to whom he was speaking said the conversation related to..but if you know better, enjoy the myth.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Silverstein's comment to the fire department to "pull" the building referred to pulling the firefighters

Wow. That's the most beautiful example of doublespeak I've come across in a while. "Silverstein's comment to the fire department to "pull" the building referred to pulling the firefighters." That's a classic. While Silverstein said one thing, he actually meant something completely different. "It" was a reference to "fire-fighters". How did I miss that? I must be dyslexic.

I've shown the vid to family members who don't know anything about the whole 9/11 conspiracy etc. they interpreted it as meaning pull the operation/firefighters. I just showed the vid without any comment til they viewed it. Then I ask them what he meant.

Some say there were no fire fighters in there, but I don't know if Larry knew that, or if it is even true or not.

 

[Astroboy]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, including musictomyears!

I hope when you "pull" on the wishbone you get your wish.

 

[musictomyears]

Happy Thanksgiving to all. May you get abducted by some cute aliens!

 

[DBTrek]

Three pages.

That's as far as I could make it . . . long enough to see PK be accused of being a government shill, and a couple 'Bush = root of all evil' rants.

I'd like to thank everyone up front for letting me know I wasn't going to miss anything by skipping past the remaining pages.


-DBTrek

 

[spookyparadigm]

I think the OP is well worded, and specifically condemns many of the more ridiculous ideas that were raised later in the thread.

As for not being able to have it both ways, re: Katrina vs. 9/11, incompetence isn't the same as indifference. From the perspective of, say, anyone in the Project for a New American Century:

Running an operation to further your geopolitical, ideological, and personal goals? awesome.

Going out of your way to save the lives of a bunch of poor black Democrats? Not so much.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Three pages.

That's as far as I could make it . . . long enough to see PK be accused of being a government shill, and a couple 'Bush = root of all evil' rants.

I'd like to thank everyone up front for letting me know I wasn't going to miss anything by skipping past the remaining pages.


-DBTrek

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - if I'm a shill for the government, then they must have misplaced my cheques over the years.

 

[ABR486]

The charges being levelled at Paul are laughable.
9/11 Truthers=Fundamentalist Fanatics
No amount of reason or facts can penetrate their bubble. It is a movement built on lies, misrepresentations, and half truths. To attack PK- just ridiculous. Luckily, I think most rational people with a interest in ufology appreciate the good work he does.

 

[DBTrek]

To attack PK- just ridiculous. Luckily, I think most rational people with a interest in ufology appreciate the good work he does.

Bingo.

I enjoyed PK's interview. He struck me as a rational guy who shares an interest in the paranormal. Like most rational people he's doing his best to sort out fact from ideology and fantasy, similar to what Dave and Gene do every week.

. . . that's how I knew he'd take a beating on these forums. Nothing like some rationality to stir up the natives.

 

[Don Keyhoe-Ti]

I am a card-carrying 911nut and I think that accusing Paul of being "One of THEM" just because he disagrees is exactly the type of lunacy that leads people to have an over-reactive allergy against any conspiracy talk. Man, if I had to sit down and read the worst of conspiratology for a day or two nostop, I think I would come out believing that even the wrestling wasn't fake, such would be my repulsion at the very notion of conspiracy.

But still, conspiracies do occur. There are amazing advantages that come in life from CHEATING... but if you're gonna cheat, you had better sneak at the same time. When two lions hide in the long grass, while their lion mate chases the gazelles in their direction - that's conspiracy. If you come to suspect that your wife might be having an affair - voila!...you're a conspiracy theorist!

The vast, VAST majority of things in this world "just happen." But sometimes people do get together and cook up sneaky dastardly plans. I'm quite convinced 911 was one such occasion, (& I'm not talking about Osama & co.) But seeing as this is a far-out conclusion, I certainly don't get my panties in a twist when people can't believe it.

 

[Don Keyhoe-Ti]

And while everyone's having a go at Paul for his politicalish opinions in the later part of the show, I just want to congratulate him for his excellent summary of the X-conference. Someone had to finally stand up and say these exopolitics guys are mostly out to lunch, and describing Greer as the Benny Hinn of ufology who's going through a mid-life crisis had me lol.

Also his general critique of ufology failing to sort the wheat from the chaff so how can we expect the media to do so was 100% on the mark.


(edit: oops I wrote Benny Hill instead of Benny Hinn! Although somehow, I could see Benny Hill as a preacher, and I definatly could see Benny Hinn chasing scantily-clad young women around a park.)

 

[Paul Kimball]

Thanks fellas... but the great thing about a democracy (memo to David: the US is still a democracy ) is that you can air differing opinions, and even learn from them sometimes. There are still legitimate questions concerning 9/11, for example - just as there were legitimate questions about who blew up the Maine, or Pearl Harbour, for years, even decades, afterwards. And people of good conscience can discuss them, and even disagree with each other. What I disdain are the extremists - on both sides - who are unable to see that they might just be wrong, or who start with a conclusion, and then fit pieces of evidence to support it. That's when I tune out.

Now, back to ufology - I think it's a lost cause. Any real movement forward will eventually come from scientists, not amateur "investigators", or opinionators (myself included), and certainly not from people like Greer.

Paul

 

[ABR486]

I agree with Pauls general disdain for Greer and that exopolitics crowd. His description of Greer was so on the money. And Greer has buffed up which makes him a little scary- LOL! Don't agree with Paul about everything but I'm damn near certain he's not tied in with The Man.
Also, I apologize if I stepped on any toes with my 9/11 Truthers= Fundamentalists rant. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean I should be uncivil.

 

[Paul Kimball]

I agree with Pauls general disdain for Greer and that exopolitics crowd. His description of Greer was so on the money. And Greer has buffed up which makes him a little scary- LOL! Don't agree with Paul about everything but I'm damn near certain he's not tied in with The Man.
Also, I apologize if I stepped on any toes with my 9/11 Truthers= Fundamentalists rant. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean I should be uncivil.

Some "Truthers" are fundamentalists. Indeed, the very term "truther" implies that only they know the truth, which they promulgate with an almost religious-like fervour. I've met those types, and have no use for them... and I make no apologies for saying so, because they just muck things up.

The real questions, to me, are not whether the government blew up the buildings, or whatever - to me, it's clear that they did not, and by focusing on that, people miss the real story - how government can use tragic events to manipulate popular opinion, and start a war. That's the real story in all of this, and the real "conspiracy".

Just like it was a century ago with the Maine (an accident) that was used to start a needless war with Spain.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Now, back to ufology - I think it's a lost cause. Any real movement forward will eventually come from scientists, not amateur "investigators", or opinionators (myself included), and certainly not from people like Greer.
Paul

I agree that UFOlogy is dead, a lost cause, but it's still fun discussing the newer cases and hearing stories and opinions on forums like this despite the "MonkeyBoy 4" connotations of anonymous handles and contributors.
Maybe the people on this forum can come up with a handle for Paul if he feels lonely without one. How about "ColdShower 3". lol Maybe we need to start a thread to accommodate this subject?
People from all over the world get to communicate with people like Gene and David and yourself, Paul and with that get to learn a lot about the field, positive or negative.
1 think that the real experts are the ones who have experienced the phenomena first hand, seen a UFO or had some kind of contact and i don't mean the far off lights in the sky viewers. I won't be holding my breath for the revelations of some scientist to give us the answers. They have had 60 years+ and not come up with much. Besides the fact that a lot of them won't touch the subject with a barge pole.
Anyhow it was good to hear your thoughts and comments on the subject.
Looking forward to the film.

Phil. (DownUnder 5) lol