Paracast Episode 11/18/2007 with Paul Kimball

[Astroboy]

musictomyears wrote...

As long as citizens think and act like sheep, governments will continue to lie to us.

And another thing about conspiracists...why do they all use exactly the same language as a "counter-argument", that everyone who doesn't agree with them--and that's most thinking people--are sheep??? What, is there a manual or something that all these independent-minded conspiracists go to for spewing precisely the same statements time after time, regardless of the conspiracy, evidence or even the very obvious truth?

Conspiracists are lonely. They like sheep.

Paul is a shill. You're a sheep. I prefer Tribble cause everyone loves them...except those damn Klingons. And because DB hates all references to Star Trek. =p

BTW, Paul is paying me to say everything cause he's got a ton of shillings.

 

[Astroboy]

When military and government officials come forward, such as on the recent Larry King show, and not only report on their encounters, but also mention that they were told by the CIA to never speak about them in public, it falls on deaf ears, and the "no-conspiracy Hahaha" crowd carries on regardless.

It's elective deafness. Preferential, even. In fact, I think you hit it by saying:

Sometimes I wonder if the governments shouldn't be applauded for sustaining the secrecy. Humans are such a volatile, irrational and generally dangerous lot. Why expose them to something they surely would make a right mess of?

I've said it before, I'll say it again: in my opinion, average, ordinary people simply could NOT handle UFOs and aliens as a reality. Not even the people on this board, including myself, although we might (perhaps) weather the news better than most. It's one thing to discuss these subjects in terms of mights and maybes, it's something else altogether to have it as a concrete reality. To have it be real, I mean REALLY go-outside-and-see-ufos-every-day real... society would most certainly implode.

I actually agree with both of you. I hope this doesn't cause a singularity!

 

[The Hawk]

There have been thousands of individuals hired on full time to work in the major news agencies to spin news for the government. The US major media is to a degree controlled or a better word would be distorted. I don't take issue with what Kimball said about the government as much as media.. The control is clear, here are two massive examples:

#1 The major media total blackout on the Phoenix Lights for a month. They knew it was a big deal in Arizona. They knew it would catch some ratings so why didn't they at least mention it? Then finally when one covered it then they all covered it.
Fact: It was barred at the highest levels.

#2 Major media won't touch this:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5260
If they really cared about profit, ratings or even ethical decisions they would interview her period.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Yeah, I get that argument. It is fair and reasonable, but I wonder how much aid a random sub-saharan African country really gets in foreign aid that would offset any possible benefit.

Some of these countries are run by warlords, some by Militarist regimes, some by corrupt, democratically elected parliaments and some by hard working, reform minded, caring about their people, governments. You can take your pick as to which applies to what country.

Any of those who are on the corrupt side are paid billions by multi-national companies to rape and pillage that countries resources or by foreign governments with the exact same agenda.
It would not be hard for any of the agenda minded multi-nationals or governments to pay those in power to handle any situation re: UFOs etc. or any other crisis that occurs if it affects the aforementioned political or monetary entity.

The continent of Africa is one of the worlds greatest tragedies.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

There have been thousands of individuals hired on full time to work in the major news agencies to spin news for the government. The US major media is to a degree controlled or a better word would be distorted. I don't take issue with what Kimball said about the government as much as media.

I agree, Hawk. The major (just don't say "Mainstream") news media is at the beck and call of anyone who has an agenda and enough money to buy it. Many can see this, but what do we know? Just look at any FOX News program!: "Fair and Balanced", "With no Spin" ,.....bullshit!!! All we get is Bill O'Reilly, Hannity and Colmes (sic) etc..
Not to mention any Larry King UFO show using the same de-bunked footage over and over again and the same forons like Spermer and McGahaven'tgottaclue used to provide the counterpoint.

 

[musictomyears]

I actually think Larry King did a terrific job at making the case for the reality of UFOs. I can't fault his language, presentation... anything, really. In a sane world, after the broadcast of such a programme, there would be a massive follow up by the news media, and indeed parts of the government. However...

We don't live in a sane world - the silence is deafening. All those people who may have risked their reputations, jobs, perhaps even their lives for the making of this programme (and indeed the press conference) did it pretty much in vain. The general public really is as obtuse and apathetic as it seems.

Bring on Britney Spears' smelly knickers instead, that'll wake 'em up.

 

[Verum]

musictomyears wrote..

Which comparison would you prefer? Sheeple? Sacrificial lambs? Republicans? Democrats?

I was waiting for the favorite conspiracy lingo to appear. "Sheeple"? Come on! How by-the-playbook can you get?

It's interesting that the very people who claim others are sheep march in total lockstep, relying upon exactly the same websites for "documentation" of their conspiracy myths, and using exactly the same language in their shrill attempts to cloak themselves in some secret knowledge that the rest of America doesn't have. It's no more appropriate to say people not following your ridiculous and unproven conspiracy myths are "sheeple" than it is to characterize all conspiracy theorists as living in their mother's basement sitting next to an inflatable woman named Pam, playing video games and going cross-eyed from spending hours on end looking at "too-dark" websites. People come to their own conclusions based on their personal thresholds of acceptable evidence and life experiences. But conspiracy theorists predispose to these odd conspiratorial views of life and the world, and that's mostly because they feel powerless and disaffected in their own lives. I really think a sociological and psychological study of conspiracists would be a fascinating examination of dysfunction and social isolation.

 

[musictomyears]

Verum, why don't you at least try to address the points that have been made in this thread? Are you too busy winding yourself up with words you don't like?

If I understand you correctly, you object to the use of certain clichéd concepts. Fair enough. But then you offload a bunch of clichés yourself by fantasising about conspiracy theorists who are "relying upon exactly the same websites for "documentation" of their conspiracy myths". Care to mention what those web sites are? Personally, I am not aware of a gold standard for conspiracies, or a textbook for "conspiracists". Perhaps you should consider the possibility that everybody has the capacity to see the human condition for what it is, without the need for outside mental coaching.

Alternatively, you might want to take a trip down history lane, and remember what the Greek philosopher Plato had to say about humanity - more than 2000 years ago. You have heard of Plato..?

"Plato is saying that humans are all prisoners and that the tangible world is our cave. The things which we perceive as real are actually just shadows on a wall. Just as the escaped prisoner ascends into the light of the sun, we amass knowledge and ascend into the light of true reality: where ideas in our minds can help us understand the form of 'the Good'."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Humans are essentially dumb, dangerous animals. It takes much determination, education, and probably many incarnations to transcend this pitiful state and become an enlightened, self-aware being.

 

[Woody Sideman]

Humans are essentially dumb, dangerous animals. It takes much determination, education, and probably many incarnations to transcend this pitiful state and become an enlightened, self-aware being.

Speaking as an 'essentially dumb, dangerous animal', I'm curious as to whereabouts you think you might be on the ladder of incarnations. A statement of that nature presupposes that you must be well on the way to becoming 'an enlightened, self-aware being'.

Then there is the matter of education. How should 'we' educate the dumb dangerous animals. Should we make them literate so that they can recite the content of religious books. Perhaps Peter II Chapter 3 Verse 16 would be a good starting point. Should we teach all of our children to become doctors or lawyers so that everybody can be rich? Then again, if everybody was a doctor or a lawyer, who would build houses and motorways?

Enlightenment is relative, and has no bearing whatsoever on education. It's a matter of using whatever education you have to discern right from wrong and behave appropriately in a complex world. Apparently the prophet Mohammed was illiterate, yet look at the fact that over a billion people enjoy contentment in the faith that he proposed.

Woody

 

[musictomyears]

Enlightenment is relative, and has no bearing whatsoever on education.

I wouldn't say it quite like that. I agree with you that a person, even without formal education, may become enlightened. However, people who appear enlightened invariably manage to extract maximum benefit from whatever kind of education they may have enjoyed. Education does not guarantee enlightenment, but prepares the individual for it.

Enlightenment is essentially a state of spiritual freedom, a state in which emotional attachments, fear and desire no longer rule the eternal self.

 

[Schuyler]

Good show with a sane guest, finally. I figure if I criticize our esteemed hosts for being utter buffoons and making themselves look silly when they do, that I need to credit them where it is due. They seemed very engaged and thoughtfu with Kimball and Kimball seemed a breath of fresh air about the UFO issue and conspiracies. I'm surprised at the amount of reaction here from people who "know" 911 was a conspiracy. SURE you do, or maybe you are just clueless.

Good show. Thanks.

 

[Paul Kimball]

It's nice to see a reasonably civil dialogue here about these various issues. That's what I aim to do with my work - stir the pot, and get people talking and thinking... even if they disagree with me.

Thanks, everyone. I may not be posting here for a few days, as I'm in final rehearsals for a play that runs next week, and finishing up editing on a new film, but I'll try to pop by.

Paul

 

[Paul Kimball]

Good show with a sane guest, finally. I figure if I criticize our esteemed hosts for being utter buffoons and making themselves look silly when they do, that I need to credit them where it is due. They seemed very engaged and thoughtfu with Kimball and Kimball seemed a breath of fresh air about the UFO issue and conspiracies. I'm surprised at the amount of reaction here from people who "know" 911 was a conspiracy. SURE you do, or maybe you are just clueless.

Good show. Thanks.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - agree with them or not, but Gene and David are perhaps the most thoughtful and informed hosts of a show like this out there, and for me it's always a pleasure to pop by and have a chat with them. If only people like them had a broader stage, i.e. a show like C2C. Maybe someday...

Paul

 

[Verum]

musictomyears wrote...

Humans are essentially dumb, dangerous animals. It takes much determination, education, and probably many incarnations to transcend this pitiful state and become an enlightened, self-aware being.

That's a statement of faith, not fact. And you are certainly welcome to practice any faith you choose. But conspiracy myths shouldn't be a matter of faith, they should be a matter of evidence. However it seems that with most conspiracists their belief in the panoply of conspiracy stories is pure, unadulterated cultism, with acceptable language, sources, reactions, philosophies and even gatherings. Again, I think the really interesting question is the "why" of conspiracists, who seem to share common characteristics, beliefs and attitudes.

But since you are keeper of your own beliefs, I'd be interested in knowing who exactly is one of those transcended beings?

 

[Astroboy]

musictomyears wrote...

Humans are essentially dumb, dangerous animals. It takes much determination, education, and probably many incarnations to transcend this pitiful state and become an enlightened, self-aware being.

Enlightenment is essentially a state of spiritual freedom, a state in which emotional attachments, fear and desire no longer rule the eternal self.

Yikes! You are the angriest, most paranoid enlightened person I've never met. Wowee.

Which monastery did you go to? The "I'm Right You're A Sheep School of Enlightenment?"

I don't think you make your point across when you start resorting to name calling and a very loud keyboard.

You need to get in touch with your inner Snickers Bar. Let the sweet soft caramel come out to balance the hard nutty interior. Or maybe Almond Joy. Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't. Ohmm!

 

[musictomyears]

What is it with you, Verum and Astroboy..??? The pot calling the kettle black?

I'm neither paranoid nor angry. In fact, I already eat way too much sweet stuff, but thanks for suggesting anyway.

Try not getting hung up on individual words, but stick to the topic at hand - unless you are here not to have intelligent discussions, but to get into pointless arguments.

The world is what it is. There are good people, and there are bad one's. We can choose which crowd we want to join. Enlightenment is an eternal process, it literally takes forever.

Perhaps we should stick to discussing UFOs and the paranormal. That seems less controversial, for some reason..?

 

[musictomyears]

I'm surprised at the amount of reaction here from people who "know" 911 was a conspiracy. SURE you do, or maybe you are just clueless.

Remind us again, why did WTC7 collapse? It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that is was "pulled", as Larry Silverstein said?

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[Verum]

muscitomyears wrote...

I'm neither paranoid nor angry.

I never said you were. But you're certainly easily led and convinced.

In any event, have a good Thanksgiving. (Imagine the conspiracy against turkeys--probably led by cows--you could concoct around that one!)

 

[Paul Kimball]

The real conspiracy is by Americans (aka Gringos, aka Yankees) who think that Thanksgiving is in November, when everyone knows that it's really in October!

 

[Aaron LeClair]

The real conspiracy is by Americans (aka Gringos, aka Yankees) who think that Thanksgiving is in November, when everyone knows that it's really in October!

Heh, Canadian. I'm already wanting to eat the food, and it's just morning