Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
The supernatural explanation being...?
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Oh S**t, shadow person alert.
- Thread starter itsthenoise
- Start date
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
You tell me. You brought it up. You had the experience.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
You said it, not me. So what supernatural explanation are we leaving out?
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
Mate. Round and round we go. I was only quoting what you had said in a prior post. You're the one who said you saw what people term the "shadow person".
You now seem curiously fixated on the term supernatural as though ready to pounce and de-bunk, all guns blazing, the alternate idea.
But you can also ascribe the possibility of such if you are willing to accept any of the logical ones that you have kindly provided. Don't get me wrong I agree that your provision of logical reasons for it are completely valid.
As far as I know shadow people have been variously described as "apparitions, ghosts, inter-dimensional beings etc." and it is in this respect I would use the term "supernatural" as one of the possible explanations.As I've stated before I have never seen one so I can't really say.
So you say.What experience was that? How about telling us all what the SUPERNATURAL explanations are since you were the one initially,to inject the word into the discussion! (read back through the posts, Mate.)
And then how about telling us all what, from your above list of logical explanations, you are using to explain your experience.
In reality, Jose, I was agreeing with you and Chuckleberry. Both camps have equal merit.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
I'd say there's a combination of logical explanations in my experiences. I've even been involved in mild sleep depravation experiments where incremental fatigue during my long hours in advertising would cause what people assume to be "shadow people". Working 18 hour days, 6 days a week kind of had most of my senses playing tricks on me. To this very day, the slightest bit of fatigue can bring it on. And I mean very slight fatigue where I will hardly yawn.
I worked with someone who'd see large masses of shadows in a printing company I used to do technical support for. He'd allow himself to believe they had some human form and that's what he perceived. Then, he'd simply let logic play it's course and the shadows would lose that human like form and present themselves as they really were. Plain shadows. I've done the same. It's cool to allow your mind to take over and let you experience these illusions.
The problem is, people who see these shadows are usually already sold on the idea of shadow people. They allow the illusion to become reality. Again, I'm not sold on the "shadow people" phenomena and I simply cannot accept a "supernatural" explanation for something that is rife in logical explanations unless of course, you can provide convincing arguments aside from "oooer, maybe it was supernatural". I'm sorry, but the paranormal scene is getting to be quite a joke and people who truly want to take it seriously are being bogged down by the kooky bullshit. I'd love to believe shadow people exist but unfortunately the logical explanations hold more water. The claim of them being supernatural hold as much water as a bucket full of holes. I'd much rather listen to experiences where people have witnessed apparitions. Especially in group situations. It's just more interesting.
Can I say there's logical explanations? Yes. This can be backed with plenty of supportive resources.
Do I believe people are experiencing this? Yes, of course. I also believe that belief plays a vital role in perception of these experiences.
Can I say they're not supernatural? No. No one can. But no one can say they are either.
I'll leave you to this conversation. It's gone sour.
I worked with someone who'd see large masses of shadows in a printing company I used to do technical support for. He'd allow himself to believe they had some human form and that's what he perceived. Then, he'd simply let logic play it's course and the shadows would lose that human like form and present themselves as they really were. Plain shadows. I've done the same. It's cool to allow your mind to take over and let you experience these illusions.
The problem is, people who see these shadows are usually already sold on the idea of shadow people. They allow the illusion to become reality. Again, I'm not sold on the "shadow people" phenomena and I simply cannot accept a "supernatural" explanation for something that is rife in logical explanations unless of course, you can provide convincing arguments aside from "oooer, maybe it was supernatural". I'm sorry, but the paranormal scene is getting to be quite a joke and people who truly want to take it seriously are being bogged down by the kooky bullshit. I'd love to believe shadow people exist but unfortunately the logical explanations hold more water. The claim of them being supernatural hold as much water as a bucket full of holes. I'd much rather listen to experiences where people have witnessed apparitions. Especially in group situations. It's just more interesting.
Can I say there's logical explanations? Yes. This can be backed with plenty of supportive resources.
Do I believe people are experiencing this? Yes, of course. I also believe that belief plays a vital role in perception of these experiences.
Can I say they're not supernatural? No. No one can. But no one can say they are either.
I'll leave you to this conversation. It's gone sour.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
a conversation with jose gone sour? no way... lol.
i too work these hours in the graphic design/photography business. i actually agree with jose on what the mind can perceive under these conditions. (wow... i agree with jose on something...) but what happened 3 years ago still freaks me out.
while i was working late one night in a very dimly lit 135 year old building, i was startled nearly out of my skin from a very loud and pure crystal glass sort of "ting" sound. i mean it was extremely loud and right behind me. i froze in fear momentarily, then got the nerve to turn around ever so slowly. there was only a table behind me where i would sometimes sort papers or have lunch. basically the only thing on the table was a microwave, some papers and a standard bar style pint glass. after looking on top and below the table for what could possibly have made the noise, i looked again at the pint glass. it was not broke as far as i could see but it was the only glass item near by. after a few moments of thinking i simply imagined it because of my lack of sleep i decided to clean up the area and go home. i picked up the pint glass and the bottom inch of the glass stayed on the table and i had in my hand a glass with no bottom. it looked as if it was cut with a glass cutter. thinking it was stuck to the table i picked up the base section as well, nothing hit or fell on the glass. in fact there was nothing within about 1.5 feet of it. paranormal experience? i do not know. i am still trying to find out what could make a glass break so clean in quiet darkness. i still have the glass but i cracked it slightly during my recent move from that old building. my mother had died only a few weeks before and a "shaman" friend (she is sort of a nut job) of mine said it was my mother sending me a signal of some sort. i want to believe this of course, and i remain open minded. a week before my mothers death i asked her how i would find her after she was gone. she told me every time i took a picture of a bird or a flower, she would be there with me. i asked her to try and contact me in some way after she died. i like to think it was her breaking the glass but i dont know why she would do that. maybe it is the only thing a dead person can do easily. manipulating vibrational rates of glass objects may be something a "spirit" could do.
i too work these hours in the graphic design/photography business. i actually agree with jose on what the mind can perceive under these conditions. (wow... i agree with jose on something...) but what happened 3 years ago still freaks me out.
while i was working late one night in a very dimly lit 135 year old building, i was startled nearly out of my skin from a very loud and pure crystal glass sort of "ting" sound. i mean it was extremely loud and right behind me. i froze in fear momentarily, then got the nerve to turn around ever so slowly. there was only a table behind me where i would sometimes sort papers or have lunch. basically the only thing on the table was a microwave, some papers and a standard bar style pint glass. after looking on top and below the table for what could possibly have made the noise, i looked again at the pint glass. it was not broke as far as i could see but it was the only glass item near by. after a few moments of thinking i simply imagined it because of my lack of sleep i decided to clean up the area and go home. i picked up the pint glass and the bottom inch of the glass stayed on the table and i had in my hand a glass with no bottom. it looked as if it was cut with a glass cutter. thinking it was stuck to the table i picked up the base section as well, nothing hit or fell on the glass. in fact there was nothing within about 1.5 feet of it. paranormal experience? i do not know. i am still trying to find out what could make a glass break so clean in quiet darkness. i still have the glass but i cracked it slightly during my recent move from that old building. my mother had died only a few weeks before and a "shaman" friend (she is sort of a nut job) of mine said it was my mother sending me a signal of some sort. i want to believe this of course, and i remain open minded. a week before my mothers death i asked her how i would find her after she was gone. she told me every time i took a picture of a bird or a flower, she would be there with me. i asked her to try and contact me in some way after she died. i like to think it was her breaking the glass but i dont know why she would do that. maybe it is the only thing a dead person can do easily. manipulating vibrational rates of glass objects may be something a "spirit" could do.
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
Yes, sadly Jose has retreated with his glass of Heineken to leave us "supernaturalists" to our ooer, jokes and a bucket full of holes.
Like you , pixel, I actually agree with Jose and think that in general there are simply mundane and logical explanations for the "shadow person".
I think it is always best to put on your Jose hat and be skeptical before leaping into the paranormal mire.
But there are simply too many cases to simply ignore the paranormal aspect and to blanket condemn them to supernatural purgatory is as dangerous as instantly elevating then to supernatural saint hood.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
Those cases being?
Illuminati0n
spontaneously combusting since 1988
My current girlfriend tells me she see's shadow people all the time whilst in the dark, sometimes they stand still and are asthough they dont notice her and other times they come right up n shes feels asthough she is been pressed down on. I asked if they seem 2 or 3d n she says 3d, also asked how you see a shadow in the dark and she says because they are blacker.
I've tried to be rational about it to her and explore possibilities but she doesnt have known of it and is convinced she sees what she sees. When she talks about it, it literally makes my eyes water because its that utterly disturbing haha.
I've tried to be rational about it to her and explore possibilities but she doesnt have known of it and is convinced she sees what she sees. When she talks about it, it literally makes my eyes water because its that utterly disturbing haha.
Jeff Crowell
Paranormal Annoyance
I've come to the conclusion that Jose is a bit close minded and his thought process is limited to his own experiences and the research (and only the research) that supports his own experiences and world view. Accept his opinion and move on. You're not going to convince him otherwise.
That being said in my own humble opinion, I've never had a 'shadow person' experience myself but heard several credible witnesses to such experiences. A few simple questions can help to limit/narrow down possible causes such as mis-perception, lowered cognitive states, or hypnogogic (pre/post sleep-consciousness state) hallucinations. Out of about 15 shadow-person anecdotes, only 2 or 3 did not pass a few simple questions I posed to the witness (most were sleep deprivation). Those 2 or 3 I've got in my gray-basket but still hold a bit of credibility to them.
ItstheNoise - considering the age of your daughter, have you considered the possibility of poltergeist activity, or even the possibility that she's developing some psychic ability to be able to see such entities (if you believe in such things?) Either way, thank you for sharing.
itsthenoise
Neophyte Paranormålé
yes I've considered that, I don't think she's had anything Poltergeist-like or she'd have mentioned it [ I will ask again ], maybe it's possible she might be developing some psychic sensitivity?? Even though I'm interested, I'm as psychic as a block of wood; never seen anything paranormal in my life so IF that's what it is, it must be from my wife who saw hooded figures submerged/walking across the floor when she was a child.
Interestingly [ although of no use in legitimising any of this!! ] I was on the phone to a client yesterday alone in the house when my dog started looking up at the staircase [ the oldest part of the house ] and growling loudly. never seen her do this before, it completely un-nerved me I lost my thread completely and then my mobile cut off? Paranormal activity isn't good for business in this case ; )
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
I'm closed minded. Yes, well, I'm open to people submitting references to research that supports shadow people. If it ever happens. Until then, consider me skeptical. Open to anything but very much aware that the majority of "proof" and "evidence" is lacking credibility.
There are rational explanations. Submitting to the supernatural explanation is a cop out.
There are rational explanations. Submitting to the supernatural explanation is a cop out.
Jeff Crowell
Paranormal Annoyance
...a fair and justifiable opinion. It's also one I don't completely disagree with. I think your filters are turned up a little high, Jose, and I'm sure you've found about the same amount of evidence supporting not only shadow people but ghosts/spirits/lingering consciousness that I have. Considering that, why do you still press on, or even read these posts?
I've told myself that if I get to the point that you're at, I'll walk away from paranormal research. It'll be too frustrating for me, and I'll be far too embittered. As it is, sometimes I get embittered anyway.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
Like the majority of people here, I have an interest in the "paranormal". I just have a hard time buying into it with the amount of bunk floating around.
itsthenoise
Neophyte Paranormålé
UPDATE:
the shadow thing is back.
A week ago, monday night when my wife and I were out around 9 pm, my daughter sitting at the computer desk on the iMac [ as teenagers are prone to do ], when the shadow shape/person/thing appears beside her and jumps up and down next to her in a kind of 'having a hissy fit' kind of way. The curious thing is that she felt the ground vibrate when the thing landed from the jump, this part of the house is over an old victorian oven [ which is in the cellar ] as the house was previously a village bakery and is made of very solid brick/concrete so it's exceptionally hard to make this vibrate.
This movement seemed like a childish thing to do to me but apparently the shape was definitely not a child, it was the same as before, tall, skinny and dark. It then vanished again.
She says that she was scared by the suddenness of it all and the fact that the thing was obviously trying to startle her but didn't report any feeling of menace or coldness, etc.
Just glad I've not seen anything, I'd crap myself.
the shadow thing is back.
A week ago, monday night when my wife and I were out around 9 pm, my daughter sitting at the computer desk on the iMac [ as teenagers are prone to do ], when the shadow shape/person/thing appears beside her and jumps up and down next to her in a kind of 'having a hissy fit' kind of way. The curious thing is that she felt the ground vibrate when the thing landed from the jump, this part of the house is over an old victorian oven [ which is in the cellar ] as the house was previously a village bakery and is made of very solid brick/concrete so it's exceptionally hard to make this vibrate.
This movement seemed like a childish thing to do to me but apparently the shape was definitely not a child, it was the same as before, tall, skinny and dark. It then vanished again.
She says that she was scared by the suddenness of it all and the fact that the thing was obviously trying to startle her but didn't report any feeling of menace or coldness, etc.
Just glad I've not seen anything, I'd crap myself.
redheadnation
Skilled Investigator
I wonder if the black flat worm like thing I saw on Guam is related to these shadow people?
Best Regards
Redheadnation
bogie13p
Skilled Investigator
Here is a link to my shadow-ey experiences I posted awhile back. I'm going to be honest, I was really stressed and not sleepng much when I had these, which could lean toward some of the mental stuff people have mentioned earlier in this thread. I also had some poltergiest-ey stuff going on too. I haven't had any experiences like this recently.
https://www.theparacast.com/forum/threads/5505-My-experiences-with-shadow-people.
https://www.theparacast.com/forum/threads/5505-My-experiences-with-shadow-people.
redheadnation
Skilled Investigator
Thanks Bogie,
I was not stressed but the teen the house it came from was since he hung himself. I do believe that in angels, demons, spirits or what ever they are. I know that when you are weak.....physically or mentally........you are vulnerable to either good or evil spirits. Or maybe we attract them in a weakened state.
Just may thoughts esp from what I've seen as an RN and my 51 years of life. I can say I'm NOT super religious! I have beliefs but not radical.
Now, when I lived on Guam my daughter and 2 month old grandaugter came to stay with me. I began to have terrible nighmares of demons, zombies, evil things trying to get into the house every freaking night. Now, I can't watch a horror movie! I hate them and I hate blood and guts...guess I got enough at work! I had a good friend......an older woman who is Chamorro......the indiginious people of Guam. (My husband is Chamorro also) I told her about the dreams one day when she said I looked like hell! She told my husband to take salt and sprinkle it around the house 3 times. He also had to say something. I can't remember what it was. She said the evil Tatamonas in the jungle were trying to get the baby. I thought OK yeah. Well, he did it............I never had another bad horrid dream again. I don't know but it worked. You might try some salt around your home. We used a lot of salt 'cus we lived in a 4 plex condo. but it was worth the sleep! I'll ask my husband what he said if you want.
PS what kind of Art do you do?
Best Regards,
Redheadnation
bogie13p
Skilled Investigator
I'm not really religious at all. If anything, I'm a big synical heathen. I really don't have any problems with bad dreams and I really haven't had any issues later. I mean, stuff happens once in a blue moon, but it just doesn't bother me much.
As for my art, I mostly do oil paintings or watercolor stuff. Usually more into silly subject matter or whatever is assigned in school. Like here I had to do a still life and I chose ketchup. I call it Ode to Ketchup. lol and my latest in my water color class (also still life assignment) is just a wine glass. I also like really whimsical child-like silly paintings. I used to have dreams about corn dog trees and that inspired a series of paintings that I don't think I have any pictures of, but I enjoy fun stuff like that. I'm not fond of still life really, I just have to do it to learn. I'm not really an artist btw, I am eventually getting into a Museum Management progrom. I just had to take a lot of studio classes too.
As for my art, I mostly do oil paintings or watercolor stuff. Usually more into silly subject matter or whatever is assigned in school. Like here I had to do a still life and I chose ketchup. I call it Ode to Ketchup. lol and my latest in my water color class (also still life assignment) is just a wine glass. I also like really whimsical child-like silly paintings. I used to have dreams about corn dog trees and that inspired a series of paintings that I don't think I have any pictures of, but I enjoy fun stuff like that. I'm not fond of still life really, I just have to do it to learn. I'm not really an artist btw, I am eventually getting into a Museum Management progrom. I just had to take a lot of studio classes too.
LF-Reality
Skilled Investigator
A shadow figure walked 12 ft from her, realised it had been seen and then stepped backwards from where it came from.
A few days later, sitting at the same computer a small 'white' shadow figure walked right up to her and then disappeared.
i had a similiar experience like this about a year ago , i was sitting by my computor and it was like a 2 second moment , when a old women in a white dress sort of like a wedding dress walked towards me and then dissappered , the woman was no more than 5'5" .
As for the shadow figures it could be a relation of yours that died , but there is evidence that these people are just watchers ,like your gaurdians , many people have reported them , my own mother had an experience about 5 years ago of a shadow figured woman standing in the door way , she could slightly make out the face , she never saw the person before ever . From what you said about the shadowy figure in your house he seems to be just a gaurdian , he backed off meaning he does not want to be seen and didn't want to come across as a threat .
Your child is 13 , the younger you are the more sensitive you are to these things , best is not to worry about these things , there a saying in my family "The dead can't harm you , and if they do there not really dead yet "
Do not bring a priest from the catholic or protestant church ,more than likely they'll open up another whole kettle of fish .
Any questions feel free to pm , if you have anymore experiences
A few days later, sitting at the same computer a small 'white' shadow figure walked right up to her and then disappeared.
i had a similiar experience like this about a year ago , i was sitting by my computor and it was like a 2 second moment , when a old women in a white dress sort of like a wedding dress walked towards me and then dissappered , the woman was no more than 5'5" .
As for the shadow figures it could be a relation of yours that died , but there is evidence that these people are just watchers ,like your gaurdians , many people have reported them , my own mother had an experience about 5 years ago of a shadow figured woman standing in the door way , she could slightly make out the face , she never saw the person before ever . From what you said about the shadowy figure in your house he seems to be just a gaurdian , he backed off meaning he does not want to be seen and didn't want to come across as a threat .
Your child is 13 , the younger you are the more sensitive you are to these things , best is not to worry about these things , there a saying in my family "The dead can't harm you , and if they do there not really dead yet "
Do not bring a priest from the catholic or protestant church ,more than likely they'll open up another whole kettle of fish .
Any questions feel free to pm , if you have anymore experiences