October 2, 2016 — Ardy Sixkiller Clarke

[Gene Steinberg]

A fascinating episode filled with intriguing tales of visits by strange entities over the centuries.

It was sufficient to inspire Chris and I to continue the discussion on this week's episode of the After The Paracast podcast, an exclusive feature of The Paracast+.

You can find more information about The Paracast+ at:

https://www.theparacast.com/plus/

 

[junius]

A very interesting show which covered a subject I have particular focus on. Check out the 'Eve Gene' - this is helps trace back migration paths of our very ancient ancestors passed onto us only through our mothers. Also - Chris if you want to be quite sure about your native American ancestry, then you'll be best with getting a specific Y DNA test. This will focus on your Fathers lineage only. I'm afraid it is expensive. Good work guys, enjoyed listening.

 

[Standanista]

I found the discussions on genetics particularly interesting.

DNA studies continue to overturn a lot of long-held beliefs, and there were a couple of points discussed in the show which I would say might be on a bit of shaky ground given what we now know about genetic history.

This study of UK genetics by Oxford University, for example (Genetic study reveals 30% of white British DNA has German ancestry), found that there is no Celtic DNA group, notwithstanding that there are of course cultural similarities between (say) the Welsh and the Scots. According to the article, "Surprisingly, the study showed no genetic basis for a single “Celtic” group, with people living in Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Cornwall being among the most different from each other genetically." That I would proffer supports an argument that, if folk with Celtic ancestry are more likely to be experiencers, then the vector for this is actually cultural rather than genetic.

Another study I found interesting was this one, Americas’ natives have European roots, which found that Native American DNA has a significant Native European content, up to 38% in some cases. That's not DNA as a result of interbreeding that's taken place post-Columbus, but rather of much older origins. In a nutshell, the folk that crossed the Bering Strait and populated the Americas were already a European, West Asian and East Asian genetic mix. If you take (say) one third base European DNA, then boost it further with the mixing that's taken place in more recent generations, you start to arrive at levels of European DNA in modern Native Americans comparable to what you find in large chunks of European countries' populations. Again, where there is a higher likelihood of experiencing paranormal phenomena, my argument would be that cultural rather than genetic factors play a much greater role.

Just a bit of light food for thought for a Monday morning.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Wow, this show sure stirred up the controversy! (Not!) See what happens when I'm nice and cordial Gene? Ardy wrote me and thanked us and volunteered to be a fill-in guest—she really likes being on the show because the conversation is so wide-ranging, etc But judging by a rather tepid response, I dunno...

 

[technomage]

Wow, this show sure stirred up the controversy! (Not!) See what happened when I'm nice and cordial Gene? Andy wrote me and thank us and volunteered to be a fill-in guest—she really likes being on the show because the conversation is so wide-ranging, etc But judging by the response, I dunno...

Who's Andy?

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Yeah, oops, typo... you can blame it on my executive assistant/typist... or not. I'm so happy someone listened to the show. Where are all our other listeners (besides Sandi & Junius) filled w/ all kinds of relevant insights and assorted artful comments??? Whatever... thank you for pointing out my cross-gender name calling... :I

 

[technomage]

Yeah, oops, typo... you can blame it on my executive assistant/typist... or not. I'm so happy someone listened to the show. Where are all our other listeners (besides Sandi & Junius) filled w/ all kinds of relevant insights and assorted artful comments??? Whatever... thank you for pointing out my cross-gender name calling... :I

Actually, I haven't listened to the show yet and that's why I wanted to verify that there was no surprise guest named Andy, although I figured it was likely a typo.

 

[technomage]

I'll be happy to provide feedback once I listen to the show, which should be in the next few weeks.

 

[roadrunner]

Just finished listening to the show and was glad you had Ardy back. I was bummed that I missed posting a question before the show.
Her book had so many interesting accounts that show different aspects of the ufo enigma.
I did notice differences and many similarities with non-indigenous accounts. One difference was that there appears to be much more information/ discussion with the contactee/abductee. Also it seems that more is recalled without hypnosis (which is a good thing). Why this would be, I have no idea, just an observation. The similarities are apparent to anyone who's read much of the literature on the subject.
I'm getting called away now, probably because I look like I'm very busy and shouldn't be bothered. If anyone wants to discuss favorite chapters from the book later, I'll catch you then.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

The DNA text sounds interesting and not surprised American Indian links to Europe and many have links. Wonder what the Indian DNA test shows if a study is done?

 

[Greers Meeting Planner]

You know I love the paracast but I love it because it takes the usual paranormal stories for the true believers and goes to the next layer down and asks some challenging questions.

This show was more like listening to coast or fade to black where the guest is just given a platform to present and the BS meter stayed well and truly in its storage case.

Nice stories but from Ardy but that's all they are and if your at the paracast your probably at the point where your not learning any more by getting more stories.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

It was a good show take the stories with open mind does not mean believe it all. More intresting Kevin Randle latest post on his excellent blog maybe has linkage to this with Alchemy signs some might interpret of UFO object and historical oral histories of ancient folklore impact eyewitness accounts triangle with maybe a three lines Fire, Water and Salt? Ocean base technologies of the future or past.The topics crossover and science in its relation to ancient interpretation of events such as floods, earthqaukes , storms and droughts.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

... if your at the paracast your probably at the point where your not learning any more by getting more stories.

See Gene? Damned if we do, damned if we don't! I drilled down on her during her first visit here and was chastised for being too tough, now we're not tough enough... Just can't win w/ all of you, it would seem—doesn't matter what we do, or how we do it, somebody ain't gonna be happy...

 

[technomage]

That's a sign of a large "listenership". The more people listen, the more differing opinions you will get.

 

[FletcherMunson]

The thing about Ms. Clarke is that she is more a folklorist than a "scientific researcher" (whatever that means in ufoology), so badgering her for evidence or grilling her about other studies related to the stories she collects is a futile endeavor, because that's not really the point of her books. She. Collects. Stories.

Sure, some of them have striking similarities to stories from other cultures, but that is likely to be the furthest she will go in analyzing the tales told by indigenous people. And, in my opinion, that is absolutely fine, because if she were not collecting and publishing these stories, no one else would.

So, the whole notion of demanding evidence or slagging off Ms. Clarke's work as just "more stories" makes me feel like a few people should adjust their saddles. The horse is already high enough. If you are a Paracast listener, then you are probably experienced enough with paranormal/UFO podcasts to know what you are getting when Ms. Clarke's name comes up on the feed.

I like to have as much hard evidence as much as the next person, but I long ago made peace with the fact that is not Ms. Clarke's angle of approach. These stories from underrepresented people could serve as a springboard for some other researcher to follow up on, though. And that is a truly good service.

 

[Standanista]

I took Ardy's stories as folklore rather than witness accounts, notwithstanding that many may well have roots in actual events, paranormal or otherwise. The strength of the show for me was that this was a solid theme from which the discussion then branched out into other interesting areas. Two hours of straight folklore would have had its enthusiasts but that's a much more niche audience than Paracast.

A mix of fact and fable is something you find a lot in the Viking sagas. The tales were meant for hearthside telling and a decent 13th century Icelandic yarn never let the facts get in the way of a good story. In the Vinland Sagas, for example, you've got valuable and verified historical data on the Norse colonies in North America (what is now Labrador, Nova Scotia, New England et al), knitted seamlessly alongside an account of how Leif Erikson and his band saw off a bow-wielding metallic-bodied uniped. Unless the latter is fact as well of course, in which case that's one for Jacques Vallee's collection.

 

[Standanista]

I just googled the Vinland uniped incident and came across this webpage: Viking Answer Lady Webpage - Einfætingur: The one-legged beast from Eiríks saga & the medieval traveler's "wonder stories"..

The author equates the phenomenon of strange creatures believed to dwell at the edges of the Medieval world to the "many and varied aliens of science fiction and speculative literature" of today. It's not a great leap to extend science fiction to include experiencer descriptions of ETs/space brothers/interdimensional beings* of course (*delete to taste).

I appreciate that this is an oft-discussed area, but just throw it in as another example of how frequently these things crop up, plus equally fall out of favour as a bigger picture emerges. In the case of unipeds, once Europeans started to discover Africa and the Americas for themselves, this once-popular cryptozoological beastie then "disappears from the literature". Other Mariners and Vikings have meant similarly bad press for its green-skinned Martian cousins.

It seems to me that the sociological need for such creatures, real or imagined, is still strong, but as we keep flushing out their hiding places on terra firma, we're increasingly driven to cast our net off-planet and out-of-dimension. Hopefully we'll still find Orang Pendek in Sumatra before the oil palm plantations take over.

 

[wwkirk]

I usually comment as soon as I listen to an episode, but I just forgot about this one. But I still think it's okay for Chris to be nice. It's folklore. There's no standard of truth for it.

 

[AlienEsq]

See Gene? Damned if we do, damned if we don't! I drilled down on her during her first visit here and was chastised for being too tough, now we're not tough enough... Just can't win w/ all of you, it would seem—doesn't matter what we do, or how we do it, somebody ain't gonna be happy...

Well, I have to say you've certainly won me over. This was by far one of my favorite episodes in some time. Your approach was fine as the subject matter doesn't require an inquisition, just a thoughtful "take it at face value" approach.

I learned a lot, my favorite being the story of the White Buffalo Calf Woman's influence on the Lakota and the influence of non-reservation life on the supernatural/paranormal experiences of Native Americans. I'm seriously considering buying a copy of the book.

Thanks again, Gene and Chris, for another great episode.

 

[DaveM]

I find some of the comments about Dr. Clarke's books to be beyond ignorant. Dr. Clarke has always stated that her stories are ones related to her by various American Indians. I wonder who these posters think the Indians should report their UFO sightings to. The white man? Really?

For the past 150 years or so, the American Indians have been herded onto reservations and left to struggle. I should think the white population would be the last group they would trust.

I purchased all three of Dr. Clarke's books. I found the all of them entertaining and enlightening. I imagine the complainers here didn't bother to buy and read what they were bitching about.