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Nov 30th show:Don't slit your wrists David!

Hey, I didn't think the show was that bad. She seemed a little messianic in her quest to "help" them, whoever they were -- a question I'd rather she explored more. There's absolutely no evidence I'm aware of that the apparitions or whatever are actually the leftover joie de vivre of our dearly departed. None.

I'm a skeptic who has actually seen what I would consider to be a ghost. I won't go into it here but nothing in the event led me to believe it was somebody that had died and not crossed over.

And no comprehensive theory of haunting can be complete without at least a discussion of the Philip experiment:

In the 1970's, a group of Canadian parapsychologists wanted to attempt an experiment to create a ghost, proving their theory that the human mind can produce spirits through expectation, imagination and visualization.


The actual experiment took place in Toronto, Canada, in 1972, under the direction of the world-renown expert on poltergeists, Dr A. R. G. Owen.

The members of the experiment proposed an idea... by using extreme and prolonged concentration, they could create their ghost through a collective thought form: Non-physical entities which exist in either the mental or astral plane. In order to create this ghost and make it as 'real' as possible, it needed a life story; a background in which the ghost could 'relate' to.

They named the ghost they were attempting to bring into focus "Philip Aylesford" and created a tragic story, explaining to the fullest and in great detail, his life, and the few actions that lead to his tragic death.

Step two was contacting Philip. In September 1972, the group began their "sittings" and after some initial problems the group attempted to duplicate the atmosphere of a classic spiritualist séance. They dimmed the room's lights, sat around a table and surrounded themselves with pictures of the type of castle they imagined Philip would have lived in, as well as objects from that time period.

Within a few weeks, Philip made contact. Although he did not manifest in spiritual form, appearing as an apparition or ghost, he did make contact through a brief rap on the group's table. "Philip" answered questions that were consistent with his fictitious history, but was unable to provide any information beyond that which the group had conceived. However, "Philip" did give other historically accurate information about real events and people. The Owen group theorized that this latter information came from their own collective unconsciousness.

The sessions took off from there, producing a range of phenomena that could not be explained scientifically. His "spirit" was able to move the table, sliding it from side to side. On more than one occasion, the table chased someone across the room. All hands were clear of the table when this occurred.

In conclusion the experimenters were never able to prove the 'how' and the 'why' behind Philip's manifestation. Was Philip a direct result of the group's collective subconscious or perhaps did they conjure an actual entity that simply latched onto the story?

While some would conclude that they prove that ghosts don't exist, that such things are in our minds only, others say that our unconscious could be responsible for this kind of the phenomena some of the time.
Another point of view is that even though Philip was completely fictional, the Owen group really did contact the spirit world. A playful (or perhaps demonic, some would argue) spirit took the opportunity of these séances to 'act' as Philip and produce the extraordinary psychokinetic phenomena recorded.

Whatever caused the manifestation it seems that it adapted itself to the expectation of the audience, playing the role of the spirit they intended to contact. Since all was based on fiction it could not be the spirit of Philip so what else could it be?
The Philip experiment - creating a ghost

What I find particularly intriguing about this experiment is it's relationship to the UFO phenomenon: UFOs in the 1800s appeared as airships manned by foreigners, not metallic spacecraft from zeta reticuli. ETs were elves in the middle ages. You don't hear much about MIB's anymore, they seem to have been an artifact of cold war thinking.

On another thread I also mentioned CARET and the drones as hoaxes. People point out that others, including reputable people, have come forward and reported experiences going back years. What I find fascinating is that none of these people came forward until after all the (what I consider to be obviously hoaxed) photos were posted to the ATS forums. Perhaps our memory of these high strangeness events is itself somehow malleable as well?

Something about this phenomena - both UFO and ghostly - adapts itself to our expectations of it, which makes it very difficult to study. And very intriguing. But because of it's apparent malleability it is very easy to be lead astray -- this is why any theory (rather than belief system) put forward must be verifiable and testable in some way. Otherwise there is no way to be sure of any understanding that you have.

As they say, "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!" -- the Buddha you meet won't be the real Buddha, just your symbolic idea of what Buddha is. If this stuff is important enough to matter, then it's important enough to test, verify, and "kill" our ideas of what we want it to be and replace them with what is.
 
that gives an entirely new meaning to the "bff" made popular by gossip (hiding as entertainment news) mags! Thanks so much for discovering that truth :)

Thanks, and you're 1000% correct with what you say about "bff" (damn ... why didn't I think of that :D).

Thinks ... so extending the original premise, "bf" could be "boy fart", and "gf" could be "goat ... " sorry ... "girl fart" ... hmmm ... by george, I think I've got it :D

And now back to your original thread topic thing ...
 
Something came back to me today thinking about this episode. Did I black out for several seconds or did she actually say at one point in the interview words to the effect of "I'm an aryan and aryan mothers are the most fierce protectors of their children."?

Someone correct me on this if they can, I may be losing my mind. That or she's arrogant AND racist.
 
She's such an uninformed kool aid drinking idiot. I don't know why they don't lay into the guests more, like... Look your an idiot, your annoying, step away from the weed for a minute and talk with us... And listen for queues to shut the F**** Up...

Can't stand people like her.
 
Something came back to me today thinking about this episode. Did I black out for several seconds or did she actually say at one point in the interview words to the effect of "I'm an aryan and aryan mothers are the most fierce protectors of their children."?

Someone correct me on this if they can, I may be losing my mind. That or she's arrogant AND racist.

Not Aryan but related to the astrology term 'Aries' I believe.
 
Something came back to me today thinking about this episode. Did I black out for several seconds or did she actually say at one point in the interview words to the effect of "I'm an aryan and aryan mothers are the most fierce protectors of their children."?

Someone correct me on this if they can, I may be losing my mind. That or she's arrogant AND racist.

I think she was just being astrological (Aries).
 
Ya know she may have landed in our forums and then her head assploded. I got through about a 1/2 hour of the show, but her fingernails on the chalkboard, harpy voice cause a vein in my eye to burst.

I don't understand why these people come on the Paracast when they know they're not going to get a free ride.
 
She's such an uninformed kool aid drinking idiot. I don't know why they don't lay into the guests more, like... Look your an idiot, your annoying, step away from the weed for a minute and talk with us... And listen for queues to shut the F**** Up...

Can't stand people like her.

Unfortunately there seems to be many that enjoy the "fame" and acknowledgement.

I have heard that Coast to coast is full of them also. It's not a very well known show here in Oz. I must track some of it down to see what everyone is talking about, having heard very little of it previously....
 
I'm just around one hour into this show (I really didn't remember many details about it, and wanted to see what terrible things I said or did), and I'm confused. I laughed at her jokes, we seem to agree on a number of issues (Sylvia Brown and Randi, for example), and in general, the conversation seems fairly cordial. Unless I turned into Ledger's Joker in the second hour, I'm at a loss as to why she things we trashed her so bad. Gene is a perfect gentleman, balanced as always. She's got lots of positive touchy-feely, but little critical thinking. Without a balance of intelligence and intuition, it doesn't seem to me that any efforts at understanding anything can progress in a forward vectorial motion. Holzer seems to claim that we aired the buried episode to hurt her, and that's simply not what I'm hearing (and I'm 1:10 into it, maybe I finally lose it towards the end). We killed it out of respect for her father, the idea that we aired it with malice is just not true.

Also, notice how I call her on the spot and ask for a recommendation on a compelling medium, and I'll bet that her subsequent freak-out will be used as an excuse to not follow through on this request.

dB
 
She's got lots of positive touchy-feely, but little critical thinking. Without a balance of intelligence and intuition, it doesn't seem to me that any efforts at understanding anything can progress in a forward vectorial motion.

You're missing the point, David. She's not looking for understanding because she already "understands": ghosts are the spirits of dead people who are trapped here and need help to move on. Period! How dare you even question that! How insensitive! How rude!

Instrumentation? Poppy-cock, you only need to sense them and use your intuition! These are deceased PEOPLE, not lab rats! How disrespectiful of you to suggest they be probed and prodded and recorded and analyzed! Clearly you and Gene are the rudest men alive...

Bottom line: for her the "mystery" of life after death is why other people don't get it the way she does, because it's all so obvious and simple.
 
Jeez, I ask her about naming a couple of compelling cases, and she gets intensely defensive, refuses to cite a particular case, keeps saying "it's in the book, but I won't take the time to convey a single experience in any detail", just trust me because "I trust me".

I'm being called "difficult and hard-nosed". For fuck's sake, my BRAIN WORKS.

Must be a pleasure being married to this person. Oy.

Religious fundamentalist zealotry is just ech.

dB
 
Hi David,

I understand your problem with Holzer, but I can also understand why she became so defensive. It's not so much what you say, but the way you say it. You get this kind of intellectually nasty tone in your voice and it's kind of off-putting. Even if I agree with you, I wince when I hear you get like that. You need a better podside manner, like Gene.
 
she was so full of it. i can't stand her but like watching a train wreck i had to listen to her bs another time. the second time was annoyingly hilarious and puzzling. Oy Vey, geez louise? c,mon. I don't know her but whoever spoke on that interview, keep her away from me.

sheesh, i don't like her, not many people irk me like she does.

she's a half Jewish, Aryan Mother? what the hell is that?

g
 
I thought I heard that too. The only thing I can think of is that she doesn't know what the term means because she also says that she's half Jewish.
 
Is it not also racist to hate on Aryans?<object style="margin: 3px 3px 5px;" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,0,0" width="10" height="13">
"Jewish" is not a race. It is a religion. Being Semitic does not make one a Jew.


<embed style="margin-bottom: 4px;" src="http://img.tfd.com/play.swf" flashvars="soundpath=http://img.tfd.com/hm/mp3/A0421000" menu="false" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" width="10" height="13"></object>n.1. Indo-Iranian. No longer in technical use.
2. A member of the people who spoke the parent language of the Indo-European languages. No longer in technical use.
3. A member of any people speaking an Indo-European language. No longer in technical use.

<hr class="hmshort" align="left">[From Sanskrit <tt>
amacr.gif
rya-</tt>, noble, Aryan.]
 
Is it not also racist to hate on Aryans?

n.1. Indo-Iranian. No longer in technical use.
2. A member of the people who spoke the parent language of the Indo-European languages. No longer in technical use.
3. A member of any people speaking an Indo-European language. No longer in technical use.

<hr class="hmshort" align="left">[From Sanskrit <tt>
amacr.gif
rya-</tt>, noble, Aryan.]

Only if you're not of aryan stock. But the connotation of the word aryan is so strongly linked historically to the third reich and white supremecist groups that it is generally frowned upon by all reasonably intelligent people who aren't total assholes.
 
Funny thing. There was this whole thing on the History Channel about Nazis in America. I found it pretty laughable, because of the way these people acted on camera.

The only redeeming thing was this hot blonde chick with a nice rack. It's too bad she was an absolute moron.

I guess you don't have to be smart when you're pretty in this world.

Thank God I'm Aesthetically Challenged.
 
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