Nov 30th show:Don't slit your wrists David!

[David Biedny]

Holzer goes on about how "positive" she is, how she's not someone to criticize or turn towards negativity. She also self-identifies as being the The Biz, she's a writer, she's developing stuff for "cable", she's into the whole entertainment thing, don't forget.

For those of you who have never actually worked anywhere near the entertainment industry, when someone waxes on about their "positivity", the reality is that if you get in the way of their "deal", the positive vibes instantly convert into spears tipped with poison. They'll stick a shiv in your gut while telling you they love you to death. Holzer is a nice shining ball of love light? Yeah, the bile in her emails certainly confirms that, in spades.

For fuck's sake, I fell asleep and woke up in World Lite™.

dB

 

[Consolamentum]

I agree that Gene and Dave can be really harsh, but I still really appreciate the show. As I said above, they're the only ones who *ever* ask hard questions in this field. So they're a bit abrasive... at least they actually try to dig and aren't satisfied with fluff and evasion and nonsense. Our culture could use a bit less honey and a bit more vinegar in a lot of areas in my opinion...

I completely agree. Gene and David don't suffer fools gladly and they don't hesitate to call BS when necessary. That's one of the main reasons why I like this podcast and I think the paranormal field needs much more of that attitude.

 

[itsthenoise]

she's old school paranormal [ yaaaaaawwwwwn ], that's why she got defensive.

she know's the games up... she's mantovani... you guys are iggy and the stooges.

... intuition?

 

[David Biedny]

"Iggy and The Stooges"?

I like the sound of that...

dB

 

[David Biedny]

Radiohead - Dollars and Cents

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There are better things to talk about
Be constructive
Bear witness
We can use
Be constructive
With yer blues
Even when he turn the water blue
Even when he turn the water blue
Why don't you quiet down?
Why won't you quiet down?
Why won't you quiet down?
Why won't you quiet down?
Why won't you quiet down?
Oh no they're in your way
Come on I know the right things to say
Oh yeah everytime democracy pays
So we're on the streets now
It's all over the streets
We're out of here
It's all over the streets at night
It's all over the streets at night
Get me out of here
All over
(Quiet down)
We are the dollars and cents and the pounds and pence and the mark and the yen and yeah
We're gonna gonna crack your little souls
(Why don't you quiet down?)
we are the dollars and cents and the pounds and pence and the mark and the yen and yeah
(Quiet down)
we're gonna crack your little soul
we are the dollars and cents

 

[itsthenoise]

"Search and Destroy" by Iggy Pop and the Stooges

I'm a street walking cheetah with a heart full of napalm
I'm a runaway son of the nuclear A-bomb
I am a world's forgotten boy
the one who searches and destroys
Look out honey, 'cause I'm using technology
ain't got time to make no apology!

 

[Mothra]

"There are many well meaning young people who like to do ghost hunting, my advice is simple. Find yourself a good, proven, deep trance medium and work with them. Because all the apparatus that you bring to find cold spots and all this nonsense about electronic this and electronic that is a waste of time and lack of academic knowledge." Hans Holzer

This above statement is not true. No one has any definitive answers on the subject. The same rules that apply for UFO's should also apply to Ghosts. And since when is a Trance medium a sign of academic knowledge.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

A "good, proven, deep trance medium"? Is there such an animal?

 

[Cybernia]

Cybernia,

You seem to claim that I was nasty with Holzer in this interview. I'd like for you, or anyone else who thinks this is the case, to please cite some specific thing I said to her that would fall into the brutal or intense categories. I'm serious about this, I listened to 1.36 hours of the show, and I could find nothing that I would construe as nasty, harmful, hurtful or brutal. Please tell me where you feel I was mean to her, and I'll respond - calmly, if possible - to your specific references.

dB

Okay, I'll tell you. I just put it on in the background while I was working here and this is what I came up with: Oops. It doesn't sound as bad as I remember, so I apologize. You weren't nasty per se, but there were moments when the tone seemed a bit dismissive.

This is where I think the interview went wrong. You both have your ways of coming at this topic and the twain never met. You kept at her about technology and the like and she was trying to explain that wasn't her method. That is what I took away from it after a second listening. Even though she explained her M.O. you kept going at it, not harshly but consistently. I think she thought that you were trying to discredit her method and thereby, her father's as well.

Frankly, I don't know why you held this interview in "deference to her father." I found nothing wrong with her. I enjoyed listening to her. She was bit odd, but she had her way, probably not the way I would go about it, but it was her way and apparently, her father's way as well.

When she asked about the interview you directed her to this board which contain mostly negative comments toward her. I understand why she's pissed. I went back and looked at her emails and noticed what was really pissing her off were the dismissive and derisive comments made on this board.

 

[Cybernia]

Let me chime in here, cause I have nothing better to do right now.

I think David was far more retrained than he might have otherwise been, considering the empty-headed gibberish he was hearing. He could have really pounced on that woman, but chose to keep his cool. On the other hand, make no mistake about his feelings, which were succinctly expressed in a short segment at the conclusion of the episode. These are feelings I share completely.

Well, then I suggest you guys need to re-examine your views of her father. A lot of what she said was pretty much along the lines of her father.

“You’ll notice that the other side of life is a bureaucracy just like this one. You can’t just call Uncle Frank [who’s still living]. You have to get permission from a group of people who call themselves guides – spirit guides. They will say, ‘Why do you want to make contact? What’s your purpose?’ And if they approve of it, they’ll say, ‘Okay, find yourself a medium somewhere, speak with them, and they will make contact for you.’ Or if you’re that strong, you can try to make contact yourself."

Gibberish or a guy you respect?

"There are many well meaning young people who like to do ghost hunting, my advice is simple. Find yourself a good, proven, deep trance medium and work with them. Because all the apparatus that you bring to find cold spots and all this nonsense about electronic this and electronic that is a waste of time and lack of academic knowledge."

 

[AnnetteMarie]

You can tell someone they're full of shit without getting that way.

I vaguely remember David mentioning something one time about he doesn't care what people think because it's his show etc. Well, he should care if he wants people to listen and take him and the show seriously.

Yeah, I think David could be more tactful now and then, but I have no desire to listen to Oprah when I download The Paracast - for more reasons than one, 'cause Oprah is not much of a listener, and when she asks questions she often doesn't wait for the whole answer before adding how "whatever" makes her feel or affects her...
sorry, I digress.
I do get squeamish when some of the guests have been publicly shown to be idiots and liars, because if they aren't feeling humiliation, I am feeling it for them. They are lying, and are being caught in their lies or self-delusions. Whatever.
My point, finally as I ramble here, is there is a fine line between being true to your own nature but respectful of your audience, and swallowing your words and feelings in order to behave as everyone and their dog thinks you should, just to keep that audience. That shows no individuality, or belief in your own talents.
I don't like nastiness, but I don't like phoniness, either. If I get bothered by something, I can stop listening. So far there have been only a handful of podcasts I have not listened to in their entirety.
If it gets to the point where David becomes a parody of himself rather than outspoken and sometimes snotty, I will unsubscribe.
If it gets to the point where WE become nasty beasts tearing into everything said and done by our hosts, rather than just outspoken and occasionally snotty, I guess then David will unsubscribe. That too, is a fine line, but one the audience has to walk.

 

[Dolphtesla]

Well, then I suggest you guys need to re-examine your views of her father. A lot of what she said was pretty much along the lines of her father.

“You’ll notice that the other side of life is a bureaucracy just like this one. You can’t just call Uncle Frank [who’s still living]. You have to get permission from a group of people who call themselves guides – spirit guides. They will say, ‘Why do you want to make contact? What’s your purpose?’ And if they approve of it, they’ll say, ‘Okay, find yourself a medium somewhere, speak with them, and they will make contact for you.’ Or if you’re that strong, you can try to make contact yourself."

Gibberish or a guy you respect?

"There are many well meaning young people who like to do ghost hunting, my advice is simple. Find yourself a good, proven, deep trance medium and work with them. Because all the apparatus that you bring to find cold spots and all this nonsense about electronic this and electronic that is a waste of time and lack of academic knowledge."

What the HELL are you talking about? Seriously?

 

[dpcoffin]

Dear Paracast,

I'm also a proud listener and mostly a fan, though the flag has been getting a bit harder to wave lately, I must admit.

Thanks for introducing me to another interesting character (Alexandra H.) that I'll enjoying learning more about.

I wish I had learned more about her in your podcast, and I hope you soon get over imagining that the most interesting possible thing about any of your guests is how DB feels about them.

I'm not here to find out if they're rigorously objective enough to make DB feel OK about being associated with the paranormal. Sure, that's an interesting strength of the show, but it ain't the ONLY strength. It's the GUESTS, guys! When DB starts getting embarrassed by their credulity or their subjectivity, there's no need to ram that down their, or our, throats. It's obvious enough. So let 'em talk! It's as much their experiences and opinions that make the show worth checking back on every week, as it is knowing that Dave and Gene will be reliably close listeners and unsparing questioners. And let US draw our own conclusions from their stories and declarations. Maybe consider that DB's not the only listener who can separate wheat from chaff, and that his sense of which is which is not necessarily infallible?

Respectfully (and often gratefully) yours,
dpc

 

[Cybernia]

Yup. Those are Hans Holzer quotes. The first one is from an interview with ghostvillage.com Dr. Hans Holzer interview - A Lifetime of Explaining the Unexplained

The second I lost the url for but I believe he says basically the same thing in the above interview:
“We are living in a technological age,” he said, “and they [paranormal investigators] think, or at least some of them that I’ve met, in all sincerity, that running around with geiger counters and cameras and instruments that can measure cold spots will be the way to investigate a haunting or a ghost. That’s bullshit. Because if you really are an investigator of the paranormal, and you’re dealing with ghosts or hauntings, you’re dealing with a human being – nothing more, nothing less. Therefore you should have with you a good trancemedium who can lend her body or his body temporarily for that entity to speak through so you can find out what the trouble is

All I'm saying is that Gene and Dave seem to have respect for Hans Holzer yet, have some big problem with his daughter. Those quotes are from her father in interviews he did.

 

[Gareth]

Oh come on David, I've heard you guys say it time after time. Maybe I just haven't heard the episodes yet where you do talk about it at length. But you guys do say how reluctant you are to talk about them.

And what's this "ass on the line" business? You've taken personal/professional hit for doing so? Are you serious? If that's true, what kind of nitwits do you associate with? I have never been looked at askance when I've related my experiences to people. That includes, friends, acquaintances and strangers alike. Most people, even if they haven't had a personal experience, know people who have and if they don't, they don't immediately dismiss the idea of paranormal experiences. So, I question the veracity of that claim.

But your response is exactly what I was talking about in a polite way in another post in regards to the way you react. Do you like alienating people? Weren't you ever taught that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? There is a better way you could have responded to my post, but you got all nasty. You could have pointed me to the episodes where you did so. Instead, you got all belligerent. I suggest anger management classes.

Honestly, claiming that David has been reluctant to share experiences on the Paracast is just fucking moronic. Hes spoken in depth about 5 or 6 (that I can recall) intense experiences covering a range of 'paranormal genres'. Its up to you to be informed so dont have a cry when He gets upset after you claim he hasnt spoken of anything personal.

 

[Grokl]

A "good, proven, deep trance medium"? Is there such an animal?

Usually you buy one from an arts supply store

 

[Kieran]

Look the women wasnt a great guest that was clear to everybody listening. We move on and hopefully the next guest will meet the listeners expectations.To ask one of the shows co host to change his style in infact changes the make up of the show itself. The formula works that is why people listen.

Yes, David has his ways, but Davids Individual identity has developed by the life experiences he has gained growing up in different parts of the world.

The lady in question Mrs holzer some of her answers were ludricious. You cant ask questions because you have to respect the methods used, sorry life doesnt work like that for people who think for themselves.

Cybernia i wanted to avoid writeing your name into my post, but it was unavoidable. I have to admit some of your logic those indeed make sense, but i must refer you again to the first few paragraphs i wrote!! so you understand my thinking on the argument

Cybernia, to say this doesnt effect you personally or professionally is really a stupid statement. Most of the world mocks this subject, naive as all that is to you and me. You can cant then turn around and refer to them
as nitwits(a comment you siad) Many individuals who occupy and live in different countries, just they dont see beyond anything other then the reality of everyday life eg.. mortgage, the new car, the next holiday, maybe someday the phenomen will reveal itself more openly, then we can talk, withount fear of ridicule.


Cybernia, when you started your arguments you should have come to the the table with facts. David has told us many times of things he has witnessed. He has no definate conclusions, more to the fact he just trying to get some basic understanding of what all this means, everybody who posts on this forums is bascially here for the same reason.

In conclusion if we didnt have so many hoaxers and liars out there spewing rubbish to the ufo audience, maybe we wouldnt need ufo podcasts or shows. So the parcast in my mind, is one of most valuable resources out there giveing real information with the important ingredient or added bonus of critical thinking by the hosts.

 

[spookchild]

I have listened to this show twice now. The first time I listened to it, I had not yet visited the boards or had been aware of the flap developing over this show. After reading Alexandra Holzer's complaints about how she was "treated" by the Paracast (and I suppose David specifically) I went back and re-listened to the show, trying to catch any incidents of rudeness or snideness in the tone of Gene and David. Besides realizing that she babbled endlessly for 2 hours without taking a breath, had no concrete knowledge to share, and made use of cliches to an annoying degree, I could not find one example of the hosts being less than cordial to her. Both Gene and David, in my perception, were unfailingly kind and patient with her. I did not pick up on any snide "tone" or condescension in their dealings with her, despite the drivel she was spouting. The whole basis for her venomous attacks on David are unfounded and puzzling.

 

[David Biedny]

Thank you, Spookchild, that's exactly my point. I'm at a loss as to what she was reacting to, seems to me that her vitriol and defensive tone are totally out of proportion to the facts of what transpired.

Also, Cybernia brings up some great points about Hans, around the time we did the interview, I was immersed in his voluminous book "Ghosts: True Encounters with the World Beyond", and was thoroughly enjoying it. I certainly don't agree with the quoted statements of his, though I can understand his frustration with the idea that science somehow invalidates intuition. But the idea that a medium is all you need, well, that's simplistic at best.

dB

 

[spookchild]

Thank you, Spookchild, that's exactly my point. I'm at a loss as to what she was reacting to, seems to me that her vitriol and defensive tone are totally out of proportion to the facts of what transpired

When viewed in the light of her constant references to either herself or her father being "intellectuals", and comparing that with the quality of her written and spoken communications, I think I can see where the defensiveness comes from.