No Disk At Roswell

[PararealitySaint]

OK at this point I refuse to beat a dead horse. The words presented in my replies speak for themselves and as there is nothing by which I can see that has been presented as a counterweight to either my theories or evidential support, I think it is best to move on.

 

[boomerang]

The most bizarre aspect of Roswell is the mere fact that an elite U.S. military base would issue an official press release stating the crash of an alien craft! One would expect the opposite, especially given the cold war paranoia building in 1947. The question then becomes--what fact could be so potentially sensitive or embarrassing that the Army Air Force higher-ups would drop such a bomb (no pun intended) ? A botched press release just doesn't seem to wash.

Of course, there's the location misdirection hypothesis that says the press release was a ruse to draw attention away from the real crash site. Something strange certainly happened at Roswell in 1947. We have some fascinating data points, but they don't quite line up.

 

[Trajanus]

Follow the chain of command who stationed prior to the so called Roswell Crash and who was sent overseas and who was demoted ?

As Rudiak pointed out, it's odd that Marcel wasn't demoted after his alleged grave "misidentification."

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------

The most bizarre aspect of Roswell is the mere fact that an elite U.S. military base would issue an official press release stating the crash of an alien craft!

I don't think that's quite what was stated. The press release referred to recovery of a "disk." Its origins weren't indicated.

One would expect the opposite, especially given the cold war paranoia building in 1947. The question then becomes--what fact could be so potentially sensitive or embarrassing that the Army Air Force higher-ups would drop such a bomb (no pun intended) ? A botched press release just doesn't seem to wash.

I think the problem was that the event was so unusual and unexpected they had no policy, so they initially goofed until it was established.

Of course, there's the location misdirection hypothesis that says the press release was a ruse to draw attention away from the real crash site.

For what it's worth, Haut's affidavit said Ramey came to order such a ruse.

 

[PararealitySaint]

The most bizarre aspect of Roswell is the mere fact that an elite U.S. military base would issue an official press release stating the crash of an alien craft! One would expect the opposite, especially given the cold war paranoia building in 1947. The question then becomes--what fact could be so potentially sensitive or embarrassing that the Army Air Force higher-ups would drop such a bomb (no pun intended) ? A botched press release just doesn't seem to wash.

Of course, there's the location misdirection hypothesis that says the press release was a ruse to draw attention away from the real crash site. Something strange certainly happened at Roswell in 1947. We have some fascinating data points, but they don't quite line up.

Woooooo....hold on there horsey....where does it state in any of the official reports, IN ANY of them (including the initial report) that the U.S. Government used the word "alien" craft in anything they stated. They used "Flying Saucer", they never used extraterrestrial, or even hinted it came from outside of our world.

 

[boomerang]

Woooooo....hold on there horsey....where does it state in any of the official reports, IN ANY of them (including the initial report) that the U.S. Government used the word "alien" craft in anything they stated. They used "Flying Saucer", they never used extraterrestrial, or even hinted it came from outside of our world.

Did the term "flying saucer" or "flying disc" have bizarre or otherworldly connotations in 1947? I think so, but am not sure. Did the local media in Roswell really receive instant and widespread notoriety following the press release ? If stating recovery of a "flying saucer" or "flying disc" was no big deal in 1947, then why the almost immediate retraction, complete with photo of Marcel holding pieces of a weather balloon?

 

[PararealitySaint]

Did the term "flying saucer" or "flying disc" have bizarre or otherworldly connotations in 1947? I think so, but am not sure. Did the local media in Roswell really receive instant and widespread notoriety following the press release ? If stating recovery of a "flying saucer" or "flying disc" was no big deal in 1947, then why the almost immediate retraction, complete with photo of Marcel holding pieces of a weather balloon?

Boomerang, whether the term "flying saucer" or "flying disc" has this type of connotation is irrelevant. Consider if you will the fact that so many "witnesses" said they specifically saw bodies of extraterrestrials, yet the initial military report to the public mentions none of this. Wouldn't you think this would have been a VERY big deal to include in the initial report to the public if it were true and they made the mistake of "leaking it out" as the well wishers want you to believe? Considering the fact that they let it out that there was a "flying saucer" in the first place....well, why not talk about the occupants and where they are being taken, or who survived...or what they in fact where?

 

[Trajanus]

Boomerang, whether the term "flying saucer" or "flying disc" has this type of connotation is irrelevant. Consider if you will the fact that so many "witnesses" said they specifically saw bodies of extraterrestrials, yet the initial military report to the public mentions none of this. Wouldn't you think this would have been a VERY big deal to include in the initial report to the public if it were true and they made the mistake of "leaking it out" as the well wishers want you to believe? Considering the fact that they let it out that there was a "flying saucer" in the first place....well, why not talk about the occupants and where they are being taken, or who survived...or what they in fact where?

The press release referred only to the ranch site, which contained only wreckage, according to Marcel. According to Haut's affidavit, Ramey ordered the press release to divert attention from the other site. The reason may have been that, unlike wreckage, bodies and a more intact vessel constituted conclusive proof of ETs, and, fearing a reaction like that of '38, they were especially keen to cover that up.

 

[exo_doc]

Okay, here's an idea for a book.
The Roswell event WAS a crashed alien craft. It was dissected, reverse engineered by the Gov, and today there is a whole fleet of interplanetary, if not interstellar, human built ships plying the galaxy. The Gov hasn't released any of this tech to industry because it could be turned against us. However, if the US should be attacked, and it looked dire for us, these ships would swoop in and save the day.
A confirmation of this might be the documents Gary McKinnon saw when he hacked the Pentagon files, you know-the one that named the Navy officers currently serving off planet- and maybe that's why they really want him now.
Sounds like Stargate though.
I would bet exactly one dollar that this was all true.

 

[PararealitySaint]

The press release referred only to the ranch site, which contained only wreckage, according to Marcel. According to Haut's affidavit, Ramey ordered the press release to divert attention from the other site. The reason may have been that, unlike wreckage, bodies and a more intact vessel constituted conclusive proof of ETs, and, fearing a reaction like that of '38, they were especially keen to cover that up.

A press release which mentions no bodies, no extraterrestrial inference whatsoever.

Haut's affidavit......Haut's words alone and nothing by which to back up his words other than the fact that we should all just trust he is telling the truth and go with that as evidence.

67 years....
No wreckage
No E.T. bodies
No Rubber Metal
No Element 115
Not even a smidgen of ANYTHING but a bunch of hot air.

Sorry, Haut and his ilk will have to do better than that.

 

[Trajanus]

Haut's affidavit......Haut's words alone and nothing by which to back up his words other than the fact that we should all just trust he is telling the truth and go with that as evidence.

Much in his affidavits is consistent with the testimony of others.

67 years....

64...

No wreckage
No E.T. bodies
No Rubber Metal
No Element 115

I don't know about the latter but witnesses saw the rest taken away.

Not even a smidgen of ANYTHING but a bunch of hot air.

There is credible witness testimony e.g. from the marcels.

Sorry, Haut and his ilk will have to do better than that.

Look who's talking. How much witness testimony at the time or subsequently, points to an experimental craft or ANY earthly explanation? Again, even if either mogul or an experimental craft were unknown to most--even to an intelligence officer like Marcel--the materials of which it was made would've been recognizable. Dead bodies were seen; despite their reported nonhuman appearance it might be argued that they human pilots flying some experimental craft. But where is the testimony or documentation to support that? Where is the son or other relative of a pilot, who ever claimed that the military told him his father died in an accident in the NM desert in 1947 but details were still classified? And where is the claim by some son of an engineer who remembered his father telling him how an experimental craft crashed in '47, causing the roswell ruckus? Surely it says something that no researcher ever heard anything like that in 64 years.

 

[PararealitySaint]

Look who's talking. How much witness testimony at the time or subsequently, points to an experimental craft or ANY earthly explanation? Again, even if either mogul or an experimental craft were unknown to most--even to an intelligence officer like Marcel--the materials of which it was made would've been recognizable. Dead bodies were seen; despite their reported nonhuman appearance it might be argued that they human pilots flying some experimental craft. But where is the testimony or documentation to support that? Where is the son or other relative of a pilot, who ever claimed that the military told him his father died in an accident in the NM desert in 1947 but details were still classified? And where is the claim by some son of an engineer who remembered his father telling him how an experimental craft crashed in '47, causing the roswell ruckus? Surely it says something that no researcher ever heard anything like that in 64 years.

So what is your point? Because I can't put forth more "hearsay" as to what transpired that day, it means that the words of someone like Frank Kaufmann who stated he saw "dead aliens" put in bags at the scene.... must be the end all truth that it was E.T. that crashed there?

Let's reminisce and look at the truth for once:

http://www.roswellfiles.com/Witnesses/Kaufmann.htm

Woops.....liar liar pants on fire.

Or maybe the infamous Lt. Haut can show us the way.....

http://www.roswellfiles.com/Witnesses/hautstory.htm

Changed his story so many times you would think he'd grow a longer nose.

But wait....there's more....

What about disavowing Anderson and his lies:

http://www.roswellfiles.com/Witnesses/anderson.htm

Ohhhh yes, we should take their word for it as fact. We should never count on actual evidence and really care whether or not this matters in the slightest.

Lastly, I stated "67" years ago and not "64" because I really want everyone who corrects the mistake to look into just why I seem to point to 1944 for the Roswell incident, instead of 1947....Sometimes you have to be creative to make your point:

http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/HoIX/Go-229.htm :redface:

 

[Trajanus]

As KDR pointed out years ago, the case for Roswell doesn't require Kaufmann, Haut or Anderson. Even excluding them, there is still Marcel sr and jr, and others who witnessed strange material and bodies highly suggestive of ET. Whereas an ET event is supported by some credible testimony, there was never ANY testimony indicating the crash involved an experimental craft.

 

[PararealitySaint]

As KDR pointed out years ago, the case for Roswell doesn't require Kaufmann, Haut or Anderson. Even excluding them, there is still Marcel sr and jr, and others who witnessed strange material and bodies highly suggestive of ET. Whereas an ET event is supported by some credible testimony, there was never ANY testimony indicating the crash involved an experimental craft.

Since you have now contradicted yourself as to actually depending upon fantastical eyewitnesses (and a lot can be said for Marcel and his son as well), here's someone who feels differently...that it had anything to do with extraterrestrials whatsoever:

Roswell UFO Crash of July 1947

Why shouldn't we take his word for it?

Nahhhh...he must be crazy....

 

[exo_doc]

Here is a video interview with Jesse Marcel, it begins about 4-5 minutes in. You be the judge.

I don't know if it was alien, foreign, experimental or what,...but I think he actually saw something , and I do beleive Mr. Marcel beleives what he is saying.

BTW...Check out Spocks cheesey moustache!!!!!!!

 

[Trajanus]

Why shouldn't we take his word for it?

Because there's absolutely no evidence for this, just speculation. 104 German scientists were working in the US? Did ANY of them, OR their relatives, OR any other associates, EVER, in the last 64 years, say that their creation crashed in NM in July 1947, causing the Roswell ruckus?? We have documentation pertaining to mogul launches; some have claimed #4--if it really existed--was it. WHERE is the documentation which indicates a horton type craft crashed in NM in early July '47? WHERE is the testimony from relatives of the pilot(s) who died then? And why did witnesses including the Marcels, describe exotic materials, instead of recognizable metal which even a secret craft then would've been made of?? If mogul is not credible because a base intelligence officer wouldn't have been confused by ordinary junk, the same applies to any earthly craft of the period.