Nick Pope and John Burroughs, May 25, 2014

[Myself]

I gotta read this book. This is still one of the most amazing UFO encounters out there. So much to digest and you guys did a great job. Nick Pope is a treasure to the UFO field.

 

[boomerang]

Rendlesham is fascinating and the show was top notch. I would love to see sequels.

Like Roswell, I'm skeptical of the 'classic' view of how events unfolded at Rendlesham. Roswell and Rendlesham both present elements of an event manufactured as diversion. The most telling aspect of both, in my humble opinion, is that they begin with supposedly inadvertent high level public disclosures of high strangeness. These are explained as mistakes made by people tasked with guarding and handling nuclear weapons. Does anyone really think the official press release of a crashed disk at Roswell was merely a PR blunder ? At Rendlesham, both officially acknowledged printed material and a mysteriously leaked audio recording of strange events made their way into the public domain from within the confines of critically high security venues.

I'm not impugning the veracity of any particular player(s) at Rendlesham. Strange things obviously happened, and people came away injured and confused. But I think certain widely accepted premises about Rendlesham are in need of closer scrutiny.

One of the first reports on Rendlesham by reporter Chuck De Caro. De Caro is an experienced military man, a 'heavy hitter' in matters of national defense. Note that in this version of events, three security policemen armed with M-16s, upon seeing a strange object on the ground and feeling the hair stand up on their arms, turned and ran away.

About 8 minutes in:

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Looking forward to seeing how the upcoming lawsuit filed by Burroughs & Penniston will unfold. It seems that the timing is ripe for such an action; because even if we never learn the whole truth about what happened at Rendlesham, these men deserve to receive the proper medical attention they need.

PS: I'd also like to know if Frank Warren has also suffered health issues caused by his involvement with this case.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Frank Warren?

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Frank Warren?

Oops! I meant Larry Warren >__<

 

[marduk]

Wow. Great show guys, still picking my jaw up off the ground.

Regarding one aspect -- the "no defence significance" part, yet there are redactions... I can think of a scenario where the incident itself may not be considered important, but still yield redactions: what if there were materials or personell on the base that were not formally allowed to be there in the agreement with the UK government?

If they were involved, there could be redactions.

Alternatively, they could have been interested enough to use classified tools, technology, or techniques to investigate because the local command chain thought it interesting, but still not the kind of incident that would trigger a national defence reaction.

I'm going to see if I can get my hands on this "binary download" data... I really struggle with this part of the case. I seem to have found it here: http://www.treurniet.ca/Ufo/RendleshamBC/RBC.txt

If this is the right data, it clearly has ASCII codes with english text embedded in it.

Using this great binary code tool: Binary Code Utility

The raw binary yields the following in hex:
45 58 50 4C 4F 52 41 54 49 4F 4E 4F 47 48 55 4D 41 4E 49 54 59 36 6C D9 C1 89 81 81 A9 91 81 C9 A1 91 A9 99 92 71 89 99 89 99 89 91 B1 CA BA 1A 7A 72 A2 49 4E 55 4F 55 53 51 93 D4 94 13 10 53 91 55 10 54 96 50 51 15 90 53 87 22 42 8C 9D 55 52 54 48 43 4F 4F 44 49 4E 41 54 45 43 4F 4E 54 49 4E 55 4F 54 55 51 53 90 D8 AA A4 84 8A 8C 9E A4 85

and the following in ASCII:
EXPLORATIONOGHUMANITY6l^^^^^^^^^^^^^^q^^^^^^^^^.zr^INUOUSQ^^^..S^U.T^PQ.^S^"B^^URTHCOODINATECONTINUOTUQS^^^.HH
^^^H.

I suspect there are errors in the memory with the encode, but in my mind, if this evidence is true this puts a bullet in the "time traveller" bit.

#1 It's encoded in English. We don't even speak the same dialect of English that was spoken a few hundred years ago... 6 thousand years hence, if English is being spoken it shouldn't even really be understandable as such.

#2 data formats are among the most fleeting of standards that we have. Why would a machine from the year 8K use ASCII at all? Encoded in 8 bit words... not even unicode? It strains credulity to think that we would even use this in our computers within 10 years.

#3 if the machine wanted to be understood with words, one would think that words would have been used instead of the binary encoding.

These three put together in my mind are a direct refutation of the time traveller theory.

In my mind two far simpler ideas come to mind: this is misdirection or this is a fabrication. One is immediately reminded of this relatively well-known binary/ASCII hoax:

 

[Sunbow]

"#3 if the machine wanted to be understood with words, one would think that words would have been used instead of the binary encoding."

Obviously, if there is intelligent contact from anywhere or anytime, they could learn our language. Binary code might be used by future machines, but not ASCII binary to English. To learn ASCII binary to English, you have to already know English, its just a different way of writing the characters. There is always confusing data, from the phenomena, from the witnesses, and in the reporting.

The interesting part of the event which Larry Warren reported and Charles Holt confirmed is that the UAP sent laser like beams of light into the weapons bunkers! Kind of rules out the plasma theory.

 

[marduk]

Obviously, if there is intelligent contact from anywhere or anytime, they could learn our language. Binary code might be used by future machines, but not ASCII binary to English. To learn ASCII binary to English, you have to already know English, its just a different way of writing the characters.

Exactly.

I mean, I can see ET/time travellers/ultraterrestrial machines using binary. Base 2 is the simplest math/logic system to use.

But binary encoding of a teleprinter code used in the 60's to spell out misspelled english?

Not so much, methinks.

 

[Burnt State]

The interesting part of the event which Larry Warren reported and Charles Holt confirmed is that the UAP sent laser like beams of light into the weapons bunkers! Kind of rules out the plasma theory.

I also am very taken by the probing beam of light that moves through barriers like something from a star trek movie. It's very reminiscent of the probing light beams reported in the Brazilian 1977 Colares episode. Though in that case the light beams appeared to move through the room searching for human flesh and then leaving burn scars. Are there other examples of beams of light moving through physical obstacles?

But why does this rule out the plasma theory for you? Can't these impossible visitors from elsewhere have their plasma cake and eat their lasers too? I really appreciated Marduke's reasoning on the plasma theory over on the Stanford thread. I wonder if any other physicists will ring in on that.

 

[Sunbow]

Lights in the sky could be plasma.

Plasma life forms with intelligence are a possibility, but statistically extremely less likely than the ET hypothesis. Indeed, even if there were plasma beings, it is apparent that Earth has had ET visitors throughout human history and there is a large ET engagement at this point in time.

Plasma beings which have the ability to create light beams to probe the nuclear bunkers seems statistically almost zero. Add to that the fact that some witnesses reported a solid object. Add to that the evidence that there were three land gear holes on the ground of which plaster casts were made, pretty much verifying a heavy material object.

It is extremely likely that advanced ET technology uses plasma fields and also inter-dimensional capabilities. Whether a vehicle has personal on board or is remotely controlled, does not alter the likelihood that this event had beings who evolved on one of the other trillion-trillion-trillion life supporting planets around us as the main controlers.

I would be amazed if one percent of the valid cases are the result of something other than the ET engagement. This case has many indications that it was part of the ET engagement.

 

[Jimi H.]

..
Plasma life forms with intelligence are a possibility,

How is it possible that a blob of ionized gas can be an 'intelligence'? I mean, to me it's equivalent of saying that a piece of apple-pie can be an 'intelligence'.

 

[Sunbow]

It is far fetched. I believe the theory is not just talking about a blob of ionized gas, but an exotic life form which evolved in space amid gas clouds and ventures into our atmosphere. It would be a very complex orientation of plasmas. It would be intelligent like an exotic animal. Being scientific means keeping an open mind to theories. There are images from orbit of blobs of light which appear to morph like plasmas. Are those intelligent, I see no indication. Ball lightning does some pretty strange maneuvers and is still considered a phenomena which is not completely understood, but no one is suggesting it is intelligent.

I would give this explanation about 1 in a million odds of being correct for this case. Plasma life forms that shoot lasers into nuclear bunkers is bunk. I think it is absurd. Kind of a sophisticated swamp gas excuse.

I have no idea why the concept of ETs is so bothersome to the group with the agenda of disinformation. It is very logical that a craft with intelligent control would be surrounded by a plasma. The latest fighters are using an electrostatic skin to simulate this technology on a low scale.

 

[marduk]

The thing is, plasma only helps to reduce drag if not used for thrust.

There's no drag on a stationary object, so this would be a giant waste of power.

Plus they wouldn't use plasma to reduce drag in space (there's no drag) and plasmas would be really, really hard to make underwater.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

It is far fetched. I believe the theory is not just talking about a blob of ionized gas, but an exotic life form which evolved in space amid gas clouds and ventures into our atmosphere. It would be a very complex orientation of plasmas. It would be intelligent like an exotic animal. Being scientific means keeping an open mind to theories. There are images from orbit of blobs of light which appear to morph like plasmas. Are those intelligent, I see no indication. Ball lightning does some pretty strange maneuvers and is still considered a phenomena which is not completely understood, but no one is suggesting it is intelligent.

I would give this explanation about 1 in a million odds of being correct for this case. Plasma life forms that shoot lasers into nuclear bunkers is bunk. I think it is absurd. Kind of a sophisticated swamp gas excuse.

I have no idea why the concept of ETs is so bothersome to the group with the agenda of disinformation. It is very logical that a craft with intelligent control would be surrounded by a plasma. The latest fighters are using an electrostatic skin to simulate this technology on a low scale.

From the io9 article How to Create a Scientifically Possible Alien Life Form:

[...]Dr. Mark Bullock, an astrobiologist at University of Colorado, is more open-minded:
"Aliens from a water world like ours would probably be carbon based. But hotter planets could in principle have silicon based life. They would definitely have a more crystalline and rock like appearance, but they would still have to be dexterous. But there are many other possibilities, such as giant sentient balloons floating in gas giants, or intelligent plasma clouds flying through space."

I think I also remember an article published in the old Omni magazine that I believe was written by physicist Paul Davies, who theorized about how humanity could survive after the sun & most of the stars in the Universe had died. The author suggested we uploaded our consciousness into plasma clouds, very much like the Firstborn in Arthur C Clarke's novel 2001.

 

[marduk]

The problems I have with plasma-based life existing in Earth's biosphere:

1. What would it eat? All life must consume energy in some form to fight entropy and keep it's complex internal structure. What would/could plasmas eat given that everything that exists in Earth's biosphere would be colder (and have less energy) than the plasma itself? (We're talking 1000s of degrees K here which is why plasma exists in short duration only and in a confined space unless you put a lot of energy in: Plasma (physics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2. How would it maintain a complex internal structure? Plasmas are chaotic and can form interesting, if usually very temporary structures: one example of this is photosphere granules (Granule (solar physics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Even with the sun's energy to fuel them, they only last 8-10 minutes. Hard to imagine how complex life could evolve when each cell lives that long.
3. How would it reproduce? Chemical replication is relatively straightforward in theory, and is possible because of molecules like DNA which are very, very stable and long-lasting. How would plasma-based life replicate it's information to the next generation?

 

[SRL+]

While this entire documentary on plasmas is worthwhile, what may be of particular interest starts @ 36:34 with the Hessdalen optical spectrum calibration and analysis. Here, the scientific research demonstrates the way in which emerging plasmas in this geographical location can be either physical, or nonphysical. This research may be useful when applied to what is commonly referred to as the UFO phenomena. When viewing the entire documentary, residents of Hessdalen add colorful narratives describing other worldly experiences, whether perceived or actually experienced. As an aside, Michael Persinger’s research suggests that EMF energy may influence human consciousness. Could there be any correlation between the resident’s various perceptions of UFOs, and the plasmas in Hessdalen thru the delicate piezoelectric circuitry of the human nervous system? Whatever the case may be, and in as much useful, the research being conducted in Hessdalen will most likely be unable to explain the UFO phenomena, and yet may provide some possible insight pertaining to aerial anomalies.

 

[Sunbow]

I was giving the plasma theory the benefit of the doubt. I believe it is part of the disinformation campaign. Could plasma life exist in a nebula's gas clouds. I don't know. Does a plasma being have anything to do with this case: I don't believe it does. This was ET intelligence doing reconnaissance of the nuclear arsenal.

Some alien species most likely 'owns' or has 'jurisdiction' over Earth. It is likely they would not want the human animals ruining their property.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

The problems I have with plasma-based life existing in Earth's biosphere:

1. What would it eat? All life must consume energy in some form to fight entropy and keep it's complex internal structure. What would/could plasmas eat given that everything that exists in Earth's biosphere would be colder (and have less energy) than the plasma itself? (We're talking 1000s of degrees K here which is why plasma exists in short duration only and in a confined space unless you put a lot of energy in: Plasma (physics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2. How would it maintain a complex internal structure? Plasmas are chaotic and can form interesting, if usually very temporary structures: one example of this is photosphere granules (Granule (solar physics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Even with the sun's energy to fuel them, they only last 8-10 minutes. Hard to imagine how complex life could evolve when each cell lives that long.
3. How would it reproduce? Chemical replication is relatively straightforward in theory, and is possible because of molecules like DNA which are very, very stable and long-lasting. How would plasma-based life replicate it's information to the next generation?

Considering what we already know about ball lightning, I'd say there must be ways in which a 'bubble' of plasma can retain a coherent structure for more time than it's been replicated in laboratory conditions, given how witnesses have seen them for several minutes.

Having said that, the more orthodox academic discussions re. plasma-based life forms are presumably considering ginormous clouds of energized gas.

 

[marduk]

Some alien species most likely 'owns' or has 'jurisdiction' over Earth. It is likely they would not want the human animals ruining their property.

In raw economics terms, something on Earth likely viewed as a resource to be exploited, as are we.

There's little other reason for them to be here at all, including their "interactions" with mankind.

Once we find what is being exploited, we may discover who and what they are, methinks. It would also help create context: are they here for something that has nothing to do with us, and therefore the interactions with us are byproducts, like running into the natives during a diamond mining expedition to the amazon in the 1800s...

Or are we the resource that's being exploited?

 

[Sunbow]

They may exploit multiple resources, including Earth's genetic material, and still have a long term agenda(s).