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NASA "sting" terrifies Grandma

She knew it was stolen and tried to sell it anyway? She's lucky she's not in the pokey.. It's a good thing they don't know about the alien living in my basement with the glowing rocks.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
She knew it was stolen and tried to sell it anyway? She's lucky she's not in the pokey.. It's a good thing they don't know about the alien living in my basement with the glowing rocks.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

According to the news story, providing you read it, this woman's former husband had been presented with the piece of Moon rock. This, of course, means she owned it legally. If you own something legally, should you not be allowed to sell it if you choose?

Decker
 
This is a convoluted matter, i recently posted a similar story about Dr Mitchell and his moon camera.

The problem with this one however is that Armstrong told investigators he has not ever given or sold moon rock to anyone.

If true, we have two possible scenarios, the husband stole the sample, or its not moon rock at all.

In either of these two scenarios, NASA probably should step in, if its stolen then no profit should be made from the theft. if its not moonrock then its fraud.

If NASA does nothing it sets a precedent that opens the floodgates on similar fraud, people will start selling what they claim is moonrock and NASA will be called on to confirm the provenance of the items.
Its a real can of worms.

There are a number of "lost" samples, if people start splitting them up into tiny bits and start selling them, it would be an administrative nightmare for NASA, who would likely be called on to authenticate them.
Far easier to just say no selling of moonrock
 
Far easier to just say no selling of moonrock


It far easier to acknowledge that this is the USA and people have rights here. Caveat emptor, All Sales Final.

Arresting a grandmother for selling her moonrocks, that is disgusting. This is America, Not Police State UK..

FYI, the desk-jockies at NASA are also pissing and moaning about Edgar Mitchell selling some of his own property too.

With the cutbacks, if anyone at NASA should be laid off, it should be the shitheads harassing those Americans trying to engage in commerce.
 
Seems to me that something this old can't be contested. Unless, Nasa can produce a complete chain or history of the item then it's to late to moan now. It's he said, she said. She has posession so she gets the rights. (imo)
 
Commerce and possesion dont always apply.

Its illegal to sell stolen goods

Someone who breaks into your house and steals items cant then legally sell them claiming possesion, or freedom to conduct commerce.

She claims her husband was given the items by Armstrong. Armstrong denys this.

So where did the items come from ?, did the husband steal them ? or did he make the whole story up in regards to the provenance of the items ie they are just a chunk of gravel and a paint flake (moon rock and bit of heat sheild)

Theft or fraud are not protected behaviours.

In the case of Mitchells camera i think he has a right to sell it, and for the reasons posted by others ie its been a long time and he says it was given to him.

But in this case Armstrong denies giving the items to her husband

So the "story" in regards to the provenance of the items is likely a lie.

I cant legally sell a stolen rembrant, even if i have it tucked away for forty years prior.
Nor can i legally sell a forgery of a rembrant as the real deal

If Armstrong had confirmed the provenance, ie he did indeed give the items to her husband, then the ownership and authenticity of the items would not be in question.

But he didnt

Freedom is not absolute, you have limited freedom like it or not.
We are free to operate inside the boundarys as defined by law, we are not free to operate outside it.
A visit to any prison will confirm this reality
 
My question would be can they provide chain of custody. Actually, if somebody broke into my house in 1973 and I found somebody with a vintage radio and claimed it over 35 years later I'd have a hard time getting it legally without any chain of possesion. It's hers.
 
Not in the eyes of the law , if you had the serial number of the radio and receipt, the law would support your claim on it.
Its the same with moonrock, NASA have stated

NASA has given hundreds of lunar samples to nations, states and high-profile individuals but only on the understanding they remain government property

The chain of ownership is pretty clear, NASA was the agency that brought the rocks back, the woman cannot establish a legal claim of ownership, thus her sample is stolen govt property (thats if its even genuine moonrock)

Her claim the sample was "given" to them by Armstrong cannot be proven as he himself denies it.

Davis claims Armstrong gave the items to her husband, though the affidavit says the first man on the moon has previously told investigators he never gave or sold lunar material to anyone.

She was asking 1.7 million dollars for it, if i sold you a stolen or fake Rembrant painting for 1.7 million, you would be entitled to redress in a court of law.

NASA can prove ownership, they have placed a caveat on all items that they remain the property of the US govt.
Thus the only entity that legally owns moonrock is the US Govt
She cannot prove ownership, while i acknowledge the image of a granny wetting herself is an emotionally charged one, the fact remains that NASA's caveat on ownership means she does not own, therefore cannot sell the item.
A public library "owns" the books in its collection, they may lend you a book, but possesion of that book is not ownership.
They have essentially done the exact same thing with lunar samples, retaining legal ownership of the items even after they have been "lent" out

And again while this matter is a storm in a teacup, the real issue here is the precedent.

Personally i think it would be wiser for NASA to allow people to sell moonrock, and charge a reasonable fee to certify the samples, but they have chosen instead to retain the rights to ownership.

Even if Armstrong had confirmed the provenance, she would still not be able to legally sell it, since NASA retains the right of ownership.

The library book example illustrates this, if someone borrows a book, and then gives that book to a neigbour, that person cant sell the book even though they posses it, the library retains the right of ownership

The amount of time elapsed is irrelevant
an example is looted artworks from WW2

This is a major issue for the art market, since legitimate organizations do not want to deal in objects with unclear ownership titles[SUP].[/SUP] Since the mid 1990s, after several books, magazines, and newspapers began exposing the subject to the general public, many dealers, auction houses and museums have grown more careful about checking the provenance of objects that are available for purchase in case they are looted. Some museums in the United States and elsewhere have agreed to check the provenance of works in their collections with the implied promise that suspect works would be returned to rightful owners if the evidence so dictates

The emotive aspect of the case aside, NASA can prove ownership, and can prove they have not relinquised that right. As such in a court of law she wouldnt have a legal leg to stand on, the court would find NASA are the rightful owners
 
The lady's lawyer makes a coherent argument.

"Peter Schlueter, Davis' attorney, told CBS News, 'There's no such law that moon rocks belong to the federal government. There are laws about stealing from the federal government and I understand that, and if anybody could show that these moon rocks were stolen from the federal government, that's a horse of a different color, but they haven't shown that.'"

NASA has to prove that a theft took place. It has been alleged that they lost track of some of the lunar material over the years. It is also notable that she has yet to be charged.
 
When I heard about this I thought it was just awful, NASA must be in really bad shape to bully old ladies. Whats next stealing lunch money on the playground to fund the next mars mission.
 
Will try andstay impartial on this.

I understand in the US it is illegal to sell moonrocks or moondust. Now here is where the divergence occurs as to why - one group will talk about conspiracies e.g. we never went to the moon, hence a cover up etc. The other side state that the cost of going to the moon, retrieving the rocks and bringing them back to earth is so phenomonal that moon rocks are the most valuable rock on the planet and need to be protected by law.

I would have thought irrespective of the time frame, the value of the rocks (if real) is huge. I would hazard a guess that Nasa / police etc did their research to ascertain if this was a crock of shit sale or genuine. As one or two posters have pointed out, Nasa probably get a lot of calls regarding fake sales.

My two cents for what it is worth.

Also, I don't exactly take how the media report the story with much faith i.e prone to embellish stories. Then again it is an older person so some care should be taken and from what I gather the police and Nasa haven't refuted what occurred.
 
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