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MUFON LA Jumps the MUFON Ship—Now the "UFO & Paranormal Research Society
- Thread starter Christopher O'Brien
- Start date
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
I am of the opinion that any approach to the paranormal has to be grounded in a sound discipline like psychology [well, it all depends on the practitioner, of course - I mean a context] - which brings up the link given by another poster - not that I am advocating this guy. It comes to the issue of the 'narrative' that gets adopted or the 'filter' one uses to understand one's experiences -
Anmach in America: Leo Sprinkle
LINK:
A very pertinent comment on the conversation taking place on-line with the new LA group. From the poster on-line -
"The reason was never really explained online. I was told that there was a disagreement between Steve and the head of Mufon Orange County. I don't know what the disagreement was about, I'm going to guess that it involved whether or not we should have topics that seem to diverge from UFOs.
I have to say, personally, if this is the reason, then I'm really glad this has happened. I think the UFO field is multidimensional, yet groups such as MUFON typically use a singular approach in an attempt to understand the phenomenon. I think in time we will find that the impact of these experiences traverse many different areas of study. The move to examining a greater amount of material is mature and denotes an evolved approach - that ufo/extraterrestrials is further reaching than we are yet aware of, but may soon be. We are part of a living hypothesis in a way.
The risk, perhaps, of remaining singular in approach is that you have a bunch of pictures of ships, but may be missing the greater connection to seemingly non sequential consequences because we couldn't widen our focus.
We have proof in pictures already. When will it be enough?"
Anmach in America: Leo Sprinkle
LINK:
A very pertinent comment on the conversation taking place on-line with the new LA group. From the poster on-line -
"The reason was never really explained online. I was told that there was a disagreement between Steve and the head of Mufon Orange County. I don't know what the disagreement was about, I'm going to guess that it involved whether or not we should have topics that seem to diverge from UFOs.
I have to say, personally, if this is the reason, then I'm really glad this has happened. I think the UFO field is multidimensional, yet groups such as MUFON typically use a singular approach in an attempt to understand the phenomenon. I think in time we will find that the impact of these experiences traverse many different areas of study. The move to examining a greater amount of material is mature and denotes an evolved approach - that ufo/extraterrestrials is further reaching than we are yet aware of, but may soon be. We are part of a living hypothesis in a way.
The risk, perhaps, of remaining singular in approach is that you have a bunch of pictures of ships, but may be missing the greater connection to seemingly non sequential consequences because we couldn't widen our focus.
We have proof in pictures already. When will it be enough?"
Jimi H.
Paranormal Adept
Grrreat post Tyger:
Exactly. Hence, it is a pattern (as far as I can see) that abduction victims rarely weigh issues like sleep paralysis on their own. Because the objectified mental images (e.g. someone sitting on the side of the bed, or a 'grey') seem objectively real. Others will understand that their mind sometimes plays tricks on them, and not report it as an abduction, but perhaps contact a doctor or a psychologist and ask, what is going on when I'm sleeping?
Good call. And I like the use of the word 'frivolous', because that's exactly the feeling I often come away with from spiritual pop prophets: Frivolous, irresponsible, unenlightened.
I guess when people use drugs, they are letting an active 'trickster' into their minds, something which could create some form of enlightenment by 'asking questions' and so forth. But when people argue that what they experience is real (e.g. DMT-experimenters describing 'fractal aliens' as objective entities), I always wonder if they know themselves well enough, to determine that?
Yep, and perhaps they are encouraged to do so by the people from whom they seek council. I think it can be quite damaging if the counselor is frivolous.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Thank you. Since because when I followed the link to here (from the the archived ufowatchdog site) I made a bee-line straight to the UFO section - when I wrote what I did I did not have sufficient experience of this site to know if what I would say along these lines would float. With your response I'm thinking I just may crack open that Paranormal section here - maybe.
It can be a can of worms.Dreams - how we process the day. There are levels to sleep. Indigestion can/could manifest in a dream as a monster one is wrestling with. What we think about all day long might get re-hashed in dream life at a certain level. Thus, if what one is reading about all day long - thinking about, studying at great length - might very reasonably manifest in one's dreams. Example, I am part of a chat site that discusses all manner of 19th century literature - Jane Austen and such like. There is also extensive conversation about the BBC television productions of many of these 19th century novels - and actors are swooned and gushed over.
It's lot of fun. AND sometimes a poster will talk about a dream they have had with a particularly lovely actor (like Colin Firth 
). Now did they meet Colin Firth? No. But sometimes they have very vivid dreams that they did. Why? Because their day-waking thought life is occupied with this topic in a certain intense way that it manifests in the dream life.I have actually had a dream - a lot of years ago - about a flying saucer (to use the old-timey word of which I am quite fond). Not for one instant did I or do I think it was about a real flying saucer and a real occupant of one. The dream is completely understandable given what I had been thinking about during the days leading up to the dream. I am well aware that my dream-mind conflated a whole bunch of stuff from my day-waking consciousness. I will wander over to the paranormal section here at some point and see if there is a place I can post about dreama, maybe tell this dream - which has it's amusing aspects (to me). That's one thing I notice that is lacking with all these aliens - they are noticeably lacking in a sense of humor.
Lordy! As the saying goes: "Had I realized how important a sense of humor was I could have avoided a lot of sex." 
My twist on that is - get these fellas to crack a smile (these alien guys). Hey, start insulting their mothers - something - to get the conversation moving.One of the key elements to look for with anything that is bogus is the presence of: FEAR. How is fear being peddled.
Exactly so! Exactly so - nail on the head.
Exactly so. Or the counselor has their own expectations about what they want/need to have verified. If a physics experiment can be influenced by the observer - "the observer effect which notes that measurement of certain systems cannot be made without effecting the systems" - imagine the effect of the observer on the observed when the subject is a human being under hypnosis.
Tell me about it…that also goes for the so-called "cattle mutilation" mystery…a few are called—a handful are chosen.
Yeah, with psychedelics, many are called and the grounded ones are chosen to be programmed. A few really utilize their experiences w/ psychedelics as an active, creative problem-solving/analytical tool.
Yes, the backgrounds and calibre of early participants in the early years of those citizen research groups were extraordinary. My impression is that it took years to undermine them and that this was done by the insertion of security and disinformation agents into them. As for differences of opinion and developing personal animosities between and among some ufologists, I think that goes on in most research fields. Also, ufo researchers these days seem to work alone for the most part in pursuing specific topics and cases, and it seems that there has never been (in this country) an institutional umbrella organization to facilitate, organize, and further their research.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
I question this big-time. Is there a thread already here already discussing this? Why do people believe that the US government would be spending time and human resources on scrambling the narrative of UFO groups? Disinformation? Why? Seems to me the human imagination is lively enough to come up with it's own disinformation.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
The closest was Project Bluebook in the 50's/60's. I can't recall exactly why it was discontinued but I could guess that it was decided to stop the funding because they were mainly debunking hoaxes.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Why? Well, it all started once upon a time back in 1953 ( here ). Is it still going on today? Well if we knew then it wouldn't be secret anymore would it? What I suspect is that rather than an official disinformation campaign, it's taking place by proxy through outrageous claims by former military people ( Corso comes to mind ), skeptical organizations ( CSI, JREF ), and mainstream academia. So there doesn't need to be a big expensive organization coordinating any massive disinformation campaign, just a few well placed nudges here and there and in the classroom.
I don't know if this subject has been discussed here. I read, long ago now, about interference with those citizen groups by persons who eventually gained power in them and led a number of earlier members to leave them. I don't know if the suspect individuals were ever proved to be, e.g., CIA plants, but that was the conclusion drawn by many people according to the text I read. Sorry I can't identify that source from memory, but I'll try to find it again for you.
The history of Blue Book and later official research projects in the US is well recounted in Edward Ruppelt's book, the title of which I've forgotten. It's available to read online at NICAP's website I believe. I'll find it and post the link for you.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
I am somewhat of an old warhorse and I recall the 50's and 60's.
Would be interested in your link. I did see books by this man on Amazon when I just looked right now.
One factor that I think would be worthy of a 'social study' - is how the narrative of UFO's proceeded apace with the books that were published and the films that were made across the decades of the 50's, 60's and 70's. In other words - what was the 'idea atmosphere' that the UFO narrative was fomented in.
I am also an old Science Fiction fan from way back - and I recall Roger Zelazny's 'Lord of Light' published in 1967. In this book Zelazny posits that the former crew of the starship 'Star of India' pretend to be gods by adopting the personas of Hindu mythology. In 1968 Von Daniken publishes 'Chariots of the Gods'.
In 1951 the film 'The Day The Earth Stood Still' comes out. In July 1952 there is a 'flap' regarding flying saucers over the US LINK: Capitol UFOs Fly Directly Over Washington DC, 1952 - UFO Evidence Please note that in having to comment on this event, the spokesman says: " We have no evidence they are flying saucers; conversely we have no evidence they are not flying saucers. We don't know what they are." And rightly so - but the ideas nested in the general awareness at that point at once thought: flying saucers.
Linking point a to point b is a complicated task even under the best of conditions in science and getting it wrong is more often than not. Think how more complicated it is to link up ideas. A tower in the sky has been built here - maybe. It's important to poke at the foundations. Why did the spokesman even have to talk about it being possibly 'flying saucers'? What was already in the general awareness because of a film?
Probably the most interesting studies to date on mass 'hysteria' (and I am not claiming that UFO belief is that - the jury is out on UFO's as far as I'm concerned) are those done chronicling the Middle Ages - the witch hunts, the beliefs regarding Jews, the beliefs regarding 'others', etc. I could give a litany of unusual beliefs that have gripped societies over history - and they had logic to support their beliefs. Didn't make them right.
I see where you're coming from, Tyger. But I'm coming from the other direction. I'm sure we can get along just fine anyway. 
It's no longer possible for me to doubt that a minimum five percent of ufos in the period since WWII are, in the words of the COMETA Report, "physically real, advanced far beyond our own technology, intelligently and purposefully operated, and plainly 'not ours'."
It's no longer possible for me to doubt that a minimum five percent of ufos in the period since WWII are, in the words of the COMETA Report, "physically real, advanced far beyond our own technology, intelligently and purposefully operated, and plainly 'not ours'."
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Thank you, Constance. I read this a lot of years ago. Interesting to see it on the internet. I'll refresh my memory. Thank you, again.
Here's a link to an online essay by national security expert Richard Dolan that refers to what I was saying.
Extracts:
“Segments of the intelligence community have been intensely interested in UFOs since the problem emerged after World War Two. Moreover, they have monitored and infiltrated the UFO field. Conversely, the "mainstream" (as opposed to "classified") scientific community has ignored UFOs altogether. Ask yourself a simple question: why this discrepancy?
. . .
Observe what happened to the most dangerous of all civilian organizations: the National Investigative Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP). Founded in 1956 with the goal of ending UFO secrecy, it was quickly and secretly infiltrated by "ex-CIA" officers involved in CIA psychological warfare operations. The most important of them, Colonel Joseph Bryan, was the key player in the ouster of Director Donald Keyhoe in 1969. A succession of CIA men then ran NICAP into the ground. Needless to say, no one outside the Agency knew of their CIA connections. . . .”
U.S. security agency infiltration, disinformation, and manipulation have continued in citizen (i.e., public) ufo research since the early 1950s. The best source for this information is the first two historical volumes published by Dolan, the first entitled UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Coverup, 1941-1973, the second entitled The Cover-Up Exposed, 1973-1991. A third volume is still in progress. They are available at amazon:
Amazon.com: richard dolan books: Books
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Hmmm, I see what you mean. Yes. Yet....knowing what I know about human nature, this could not stay secret. Human nature is to spill the beans. Skepticism is also healthy.
Tyger
Paranormal Adept
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Skepticism and the skeptical movement we see driven by CSICOP ( now just CSI ) and the JREF can be healthy, but I've also experience the "dark side" so to speak, the side that endorses cyber bullying and character assassination. I wouldn't be surprised to find these darker elements connected to some hidden agenda.