Michael Horn & The Billy Meier Contacts

[Gene Steinberg]

and your opinion of the video gene?

i started flying and building remote controlled airplanes way back in grade school. my 6th grade teacher turned out to be my inspiration and later became my partner. he had thousands of dollars worth of remote controlled air craft.

in the '70s most ufo sightings were the typical saucer shaped craft. he had built a craft from a kit that mimicked the typical saucer shaped ufo. the craft was big, seven feet in diameter using fans to give it lift. it was very hard to fly. he could fly it but he got a lot of wobble when he hovered like the one in the video. i don't think the video shows a model on a string; i think it may be a remote controlled craft because of the manner in which it flew. they did have remote controlled stuff at that time.

also wondering gene, in your opinion what ufo stories do you find most credible? i think the walton case is worth attention and surely the hill case. like you, i put very little credibility in the meier claims.

At this point, I have little interest in how Meier and his people created their photos. Models? Remote control devices? It doesn't matter anymore really. There's only so much time in a day to examine the subject, and I'm trying to concentrate on the things that might reveal some real answers.

I met Betty Hill years ago, and she seemed friendly and sincere. This is definitely a case worth examining, particularly as the apparent progenitor of the abduction scenario. There are lots of possibilities here, and one is that it may be, as represented, a meeting with entities from another world. Or it may be some effort at government misinformation or a government experiment just to see how people can be manipulated -- or brainwashed if you will.

Travis Walton? A fascinating story and one worth further investigation.

 

[ufoman]

I found this,

Statement from Ptaah to Billy Meier (Pleiadian/Plejaren E.T.) on Feb. 3, 1995, according to Billy Meier's 251st contact report:

"We found that their falsified movie and photo material appealed to terrestrial humans, particularly to those so-called UFO experts who call themselves ufologists and the like, and this even includes some well-respected scientists. The absurdity of the falsifications, and the people who believed them, is stunning yet extremely effective. For this reason, we executed maneuvers with our genuinely existing flying objects, e.g., jerky pendulum movements and certain skipping and floating movements, which ordinarily are not a part of our flying objects' normal movements and flight techniques. Instead, they appeared like those ridiculous, abrupt pendulum and strange swaying movements of the manipulated movies and photos by the UFO swindlers, liars and charlatans. The fact that we chose to execute these movement types is based on the reasoning that they, in particular, would result in the worldwide, fierce UFO controversy which resulted in many hardships for you, of course. You were accused of fraud, deceit, charlatanry and, indeed, dishonesty. You were further charged with constructing models and then photographing and filming them. Often we felt very sorry for you, but were unable to change any of this. Only by executing certain flight maneuvers, which you then were able to film, photograph and disseminate throughout the globe, was the worldwide UFO controversy ensured that led to the previously mentioned outcome. In the future, they will also bring about additional and by now urgently needed results."

http://www.figu.org/us/ufology/contact_notes/251st/1.htm

Looks like you guys fell for the trap!

 

[Aspie]

I just found something intersting too. You know how Horn claims Billy Meier predicted the attack on the World Trade Center? This is supposed to be documented in the Henoch Prophecies, and on Horn's site he says it was mentioned in the 215th contact.

Well I used the Wayback Machine (the website that archives the internet) to take a look at Horn's site from a few years ago. Strangely it only lists his site from 2004, but that was good enough for me.

I looked at an archived page of his site from June 2004 and went to his list of documents. There is a pdf there containing the statement from the so called 215th contact with Billy Meier and the aliens. There is no mention of any attack on the Workd Trade Center. In fact there isn't a single mention of the World Trade Center.

And even stranger right at the bottom of the pdf is a copyright notice dated 2002. I was hoping to get a version of this pdf from before September 2001, but even with ths version dated 2002 it would have been quite easy for Meier to add the World Trade Center in there. I guess he just forgot ;D

 

[Theorist]

and your opinion of the video gene?

i started flying and building remote controlled airplanes way back in grade school. my 6th grade teacher turned out to be my inspiration and later became my partner. he had thousands of dollars worth of remote controlled air craft.

i just read one of my previous posts and wanted to clarify something. when i say he became my partner, it was a business partner i was referring to in building and selling remote controlled planes and things. the post might have gave some the impression it was perhaps another kind of partner. just wanted to clear that up.

good to see you here aspie. ;D

 

[Aspie]

;D ;D ;D Good to have that clarification Theorist

and good to see you here too

 

[Mindsky]

Ok, Billy doesn't want an arm, because that would prove his contacts are real (giving more weight to his predictions, which he is wanting people to believe I assume. If not, why mention them?). He doesn't want this because of assasination attempts. Yet, he has taken over a 1000 photos and many videos, motion pictures etc. and went public with it. If he doesn't want to be a target, why come forward at all?

Why do the aliens let Billy film their ship hovering and moving slowly, but not doing something as David mentioned. Land and have the "aliens" walk out? They seem to be posing, or allowing Billy to get evidence. So, it's reasonable to ask why not give a demonstration that would prove their existence? The only reason would be; 1. They want to give a hint at their presence and let those with an open mind believe it (some say gullible). 2. They don't know Billy is taking most the photos and film (not so advanced I guess). 3. it's a hoax. If there are anymore reasons feel free to add on.

Has Horn commented on the actress Billy tried to pass off as a ET? Or the dinosaur toys? The neighbor's testimony that the tree in some of his film and pics was never there, it's a model. The trees absence being confirmed by certain researchers? Can Wendelle Stevens really be trusted? Is it true he is a convicted felon?

Admittingly, I've read much, but not all this thread. Pages and pages of bickering started to give me a little bit of a headache. I'm sorry if this has been addressed in great detail already.

I heard/read Horn mention that Kal K. doctored some of Billy's photos. Where can I read up on this at? Anywhere independent of Horn or Wendelle?

Thank you for any info. you might give.

 

[auntiegrav]

Why do the aliens let Billy film their ship hovering and moving slowly, but not doing something as David mentioned. Land and have the "aliens" walk out? They seem to be posing, or allowing Billy to get evidence. So, it's reasonable to ask why not give a demonstration that would prove their existence? The only reason would be; 1. They want to give a hint at their presence and let those with an open mind believe it (some say gullible). 2. They don't know Billy is taking most the photos and film (not so advanced I guess). 3. it's a hoax. If there are anymore reasons feel free to add on.

4. The ships are manned by terrestrial people and they want people to believe in aliens, so they help Billy do the photo thing. If he was too credible, people might really seriously investigate what is going on. As long as he is just a little loopy, he fits the MO.

 

[Mindsky]

Ah yes. Thank you Auntie.



I've been reading further all the links and many pages of this huge thread. Much of my questions have indeed been brought up already. Sorry for rehashing it here. Back to reading.....

I find the "tac" evidence hilarious. Well, in a sad way I guess. I don't think I was aware of that aspect before.

The lid excuse reminds me of the "John Reed" type excuses he came/comes up with. Last I checked, he (the formerly known "Dr.Reed" ) was tying in reincarnation as an excuse for his exposed fraud, since it is now known what he said could not have taken place in atleast some universes (the one/s we find ourselves in).

 

[auntiegrav]

Ah yes. Thank you Auntie.

No problem. I used to have Billy Meier in the "unknown" category, as I have the "Light Years" book, and found it entertaining and interesting. Like Mulder, I tend toward WANTING things to be true too much, and it takes a while for me to dump one into the circular file. The paracast has helped me put Billy into the 'not useful' file, at least. I am tired of people telling me how wonderful aliens are, their technology is beyond us, etc. If it exists, I can probably duplicate it. I just need details. So far, they haven't been forthcoming, and the Meier case is actually disinforming. There are holes in the science/physics paradigm, and these stories aren't filling any of them. I think that any credible abductee will be able to fill some hole in the science, even if it is only a simple one that I think I have already filled.

 

[Mindsky]

I've spent many hours in this thread, over days now, and still haven't came across Dave's analysis images. I read that there was an intitial problem where others could not see them. A zip file link was given, but it is broke now..... I continued on looking and still haven't found them. Just wanted to give this feedback, since they are crucial to atleast one episode of the show, and if I can't find them after days, then there might be other listeners as dumb as me that can't either. Ok, hard to believe, but it's possible. ???

 

[nshanks]

I've read through this thread, listened to the related podcasts a couple of times now and would like to add my two cents with my first paracast forum post!

As far as I am concerned, the burden of proof is on the Meier side to provide better evidence.
If these contacts are ongoing, take some HDV video and some RAW digital photos the next the aliens come down.
Maybe take hair, skin and saliva samples for DNA testing? I'm sure that there are plenty of people who would put down the $$ to have it done.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I've spent many hours in this thread, over days now, and still haven't came across Dave's analysis images. I read that there was an intitial problem where others could not see them. A zip file link was given, but it is broke now..... I continued on looking and still haven't found them. Just wanted to give this feedback, since they are crucial to atleast one episode of the show, and if I can't find them after days, then there might be other listeners as dumb as me that can't either. Ok, hard to believe, but it's possible. ???

It's just a time-consuming quest, because there are so many messages.

But try: Index of /smf

See if that takes you to a page where the photos still exist.

 

[Theorist]

I've read through this thread, listened to the related podcasts a couple of times now and would like to add my two cents with my first paracast forum post!

As far as I am concerned, the burden of proof is on the Meier side to provide better evidence.
If these contacts are ongoing, take some HDV video and some RAW digital photos the next the aliens come down.
Maybe take hair, skin and saliva samples for DNA testing? I'm sure that there are plenty of people who would put down the $$ to have it done.

very true post. if he really wants to prove his story he could. don't look for any new video or photos from him. in the age of technology he could very easily prove they are real and confirm his story. horn is a joke if he expects us to buy this bogus story and his laughable photographs and video. DAMN, WHAT A JOKE.

what concerns me is their cult-like lifestyle. this is very disturbing. we all know the horrific things that has happened before with this type existence. my advice to anyone living there...DON'T DRINK THE KOOL-AID!

 

[Mindsky]

Who to believe?

Is anyone else out there experiencing this conundrum or am I expecting too much?

Absolutely, I feel the same way, when it comes to the experts. There's no question about if this is a fraud or not. No question to me that is. But for the details like who's the better expert, who's details are more accurate etc. I can relate. I even been thinking about the comparison with the PG film myself. I spend a lot of time over at BFF. I'm "touchmymonkey".

There's quite abit of the, my dad is better than your day type thing going on here. Appealing to authority type thing. I think we need an expert who's expertise is on mistake making. Maybe this expert could prove the other experts' mistakes?

I'm sure one side wants to accuse the other side of having loads of experts on mistakes.....


For the believers, I wonder what would be considered proof, or hard evidence of fraud and deciet on Billy's part? Is duplication the only thing?

I know it has been said that a uncut video of a ship coming in, landing, and having aliens walk out, would prove it for the "skeptics".

Here's a made up scenario I was wondering about (among many other things/ideas). I wonder if Billy came out and said that he made it all up, if there would still be many saying that Bill is just saying that to ward off death threats. Never realizing, that although that may be a concievable possibility, in either case, true or false, it would prove Billy lies. I wonder if that sort of thing would go unoticed. Wether or not the WCUFO is a 2d cut out, model with ornaments, tacs, bowls, plates, lid or no lid, is not required to know in order to make a solid case for it being something other than what Billy claimed. The fact that different theories come up as to how to fake it, is indication that in theory, there are multiple ways of doing it, or atleast interpreting the data. Just as there would be 2 interpretations of Billy saying he made it up, both lead to him being a liar. The different theories as to what exactly is going on in the film as to it being a hoax, still lead to it being a hoax.

Much of this was difficult to try and explain. Hope I did a fair enough job.


/edit: Bruce Maccabee was mentioned. He hasn't worked on the WC photos, so far as I know though. I would favor him over many others mentioned. Although I can't prove his integrity. I made a thread in which Bruce ended up taking a lie detector test, at the request of Jerry Black and the late Kenny Young. It wasn't me that ask that he take the test, Jerry and Kenny did. I started a thread at UFOupdates about Gulf Breeze etc... Jerry and Kenny wanted Bruce to take a polygraph to show wether or not he is lying about the money, or lack there of, involved in the taking, or not taking, of the book sells that Bruce was part of. Bruce agreed and the results of the test was, yup, you guessed it.... inconclusive. Bruce's abilities in analyzing photos appears to be some of the best. To me atleast. More info. can be found by typing "Jerry Black Bruce Maccabee" in google. I woulda linked it, but it's a little off topic.

 

[Mindsky]

It's just a time-consuming quest, because there are so many messages.

But try: Index of /smf

See if that takes you to a page where the photos still exist.

No pics or links.

Good, I don't feel lazy now. I'm new and thought I was going to give the impression I was lazy heh, but appearantly I am facing the initial problem others had to deal with.

I relooked 2 other times, no sign of any links, attachments, or images. I'm glad I'm not the guy who was needing to defend this. It woulda looked suspicious me saying this, but wrongfully so. ;D

I've read all but a few pages of this thread. Also visited and read most of all the links that did show up. Hopefully by tonight or tomorrow I will have read everything. Now, if I could only remember it all.

I read in the thread that the Firefox browser works. Atleast one version. I might download and install it and try. I don't care for the browser though

I use IE. I don't recall which version. It's not real old though. I've noticed some Google bar on my browser recently. This may be killing what it thinks is "spam" and disabling thumbs, gifs etc. I noticed it blocks pop ups atleast. SOme programs disable banner ads etc. Not sure if this is related.

 

[Mindsky]

I've read through this thread, listened to the related podcasts a couple of times now and would like to add my two cents with my first paracast forum post!

As far as I am concerned, the burden of proof is on the Meier side to provide better evidence.
If these contacts are ongoing, take some HDV video and some RAW digital photos the next the aliens come down.
Maybe take hair, skin and saliva samples for DNA testing? I'm sure that there are plenty of people who would put down the $$ to have it done.

Consider what Horn has said about Billy and his arm in those programs. According to Horn, Billy doesn't want to prove he has contact... The details are on one of the shows. He does a great job I think. Of not proving it. Yet, he takes pics and vids and releases them, and info. It's called a COP OUT, as far as I'm concerned. Prove it, some may shout. Why should I? I don't care to prove it, like Billy. It still is, cause I say so though. Time to go walk my dogma. :


Be careful people. If the Billy mythos is shattered in the eyes of some of the members, they might go join or endorse a worse "cult". Believe it or not, it's possible. Maybe it's best they believe as they do. Hard to know for sure. For me atleast.

 

[CharlesGilbertWright]

Please direct me to the posted photos by David that he examined that started this discussion.

Thanks,

 

[nshanks]

Let's just call a cult a cult and move on. I think it would be in the best interests of the paracast to just avoid these kinds of organizations all together and continue "looking for truth".
Gene, how about adding a "Messiah Complex" plugin to your skype app to filter them out?

 

[Mindsky]

Please direct me to the posted photos by David that he examined that started this discussion.

Thanks,

Gene recently posted this link in trying to help me to them.

Index of /smf


I still don't see where they are.

Given my experience and those of many others I've read earlier in this thread, they have been having problems with them showing up.

 

[shuffle]

Where is this photoshop deconstructed image please? Like others here I've just read through masses of posts to find it and it's not there. Can I get a link if I've missed it - or did the Plejaren's come and whip it off the server?

I find it really interesting ow mainstream UFOlogy, the likes of Stanton Friedman and Bruce Macabee, and now two 'paranormal experts' readily accept the fog and distraction of the Roswell case as having 'happened' but can't even begin to do decent research into a case demonstrating more evidence than most UFO cases put together.

Whatever FIGU are claiming more recently is a different matter to me - but the original Meier cases are backed-up by more hardcore evidence [such as we see everyday in the UFO stufy world] than the other cases to date.

You have isolated one element [sorry one IMAGE] of the Meier case and debunked the whole lot. Clever. Do you realise that if we took this approach with *any* UFO case we'd have none left to study !

You ignored other images, video, assessment by many other image analysts prior to your late entry into this area, predictions made regarding the geo-physiology of planets and most of al the numerous validated witness statements from local Swiss people and a UN ambassador. Well done.

You know having looked into this area for years I've come to the conclusion that many so called UFOlogists dislike the Meier case primarily due to fear. It represents a degree of evidential closure in comparison to most other UFO cases and most of us, naturally, don't want to go there. It seems we just want to toy with the idea of off-world or interdimensional beings being a reality in which case lets change the nature of research in this field to that of a knitting circle.


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