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Michael Horn & The Billy Meier Contacts


Do you believe the Billy Meier Contacts and Evidence Are Real?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not Sure

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  • Total voters
    1
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Thanks ufoman for the info! I'm sorry that Michael feels that everyone who tries to see another side of a story and to be objective and thoughtful is part of an angry mob. I'm certainly not a member of the angry mob and would love to see some artifacts and understand what is really and truly going on with Billy Meier. Michael obviously experienced something "mind shattering" when he met with Billy Meier in Switzerland. While his discourse both on the air and in the forum can be indicative of his passion and commitment to Billy Meier and his work, his highly defensive tone and ranting responses, however, undermine his credibiity. I want "the facts, just the facts"... not heresay, not unverifiable statements, missing pieces and proported coverups, no stories of clandestine aliens who are playing hide and seek with us because of their own agendas (aren't we the egotistical ones who portend to know others raison d'etre!), nor American presidents who are faulted for not responding to Billy Meier who purportedly sent them a letter (I'm guessing that they might receive a few letters like this every now and again...). While it seems absolutely plausible for dB to duplicate 1000's of photos for Michael, it is way too much for Michael to produce a single document that is legally verifiable (don't tell me that a copyrighted document that someone created is verified; Harry Potter is copyrighted and none of us has seen a flying broomstick around lately...or maybe some of us have :)). Too bad for Michael. What would a silent one armed man who is more believable through his quietness say about a noisy two armed man representing him who does not know when enough is enough?

I'm going to start exploring the other threads in the forum. Best, Alea
 
Alea said:
I'm going to start exploring the other threads in the forum. Best, Alea
And if you don't see one that captures your fancy, feel free to create them :)

If you have something that you think is suitable for a full forum, let me know and I'll help set it up.
 
Alea said:
What would a silent one armed man who is more believable through his quietness say about a noisy two armed man representing him who does not know when enough is enough?

Wow, I am floored by the absolute clarity and truth of that statement. Thank you, Alea, for what is perhaps the most coherent and concise statement in this thread. I don't think I could express it any better. I am humbled.

dB
 
Great show again guys. Good work on the analysis of the photo and proving it to be fake. You are correct about Mr Horn, he does jump around the houses too much. You try to talk about the photo, he wants to talk about the predictions or the sound evidence. Oh the sound evidence, is this from the soundtrack of Forbidden Planet? it sounds very familiar. Or maybe Hawkwind were doing a concert on the other side of one of Billy's hills?

Mr Horn is the master of deflection. He's had 27 years to hone this skill. I had the same experience with him. You can never get a straight answer from him
 
Great Podcast! Talk about a not long enough podcast!

I haven't read all the posts yet, but I just wanted to make 2 points.

1. David did a great job!
2. If Billy paid me what he pays Michael Horn, I'd believe all his garbage AND defend it too! ;D GOTTA protect that check!
 
:-[ Oh.. Just gotta correct myself very quickly.

I read this from an email that Micheal Horn wrote to David:

..."So NO, it doesn't go against any principles to be compensated for your labors, even though I do my work VOLUNTARILY. But life is funny, if you do the right things it works out for you."

So he does it for free? Hm... maybe he is dumber than I originally thought. ::)

Where can I see the video of that fake a$$ wedding cake flying? (WITHOUT having to pay)

Thanks.

J
 
I look in to see what the latest is and, as usual, ad hominum attacks from wannabes.

Fact: The disputed photo was acknowledged to be a double exposure, my friend is the one who said it was actually a triple exposure...not Mr. Expert. Same honest guy said IMPOSSIBLE to say if it was done deliberately and, in his opinion, it was in-camera. The reality is that very little, if anything was PROVED in all of the heat here. It may be sad, like the consciousness of many of members here, but it's true. Ask an attorney if DB PROVED it was a deliberate fake. End of joke, he didn't. Y'all wanna keep that one going, be my guest.

I'll only defend myself to this extent, since there are a number of poseurs and losers here, my accomplishments in any number of areas dwarf yours, and none of the ignorant (and fundamentally jealous attacks) mean anything to me. I needs to respect someone in order to be offended by their comments. Since I don't respect you, and your ugly demeanor, I don't need to attack you, as you do me, your own palpable vindictiveness represents who you are.

You're not bothered by the fact that DB said he could effectively duplicate the sounds with a moog, but didn't, or that he asked for a particular film - thinking it didn't exist - and then refused to acknowledge it when he 's informed that it does. You're not bothered that he calls people he doesn't know - and into whose homes he isn't fit to enter - "unscrupulous" and members of a cult, that people are either in it for the money or who knows what, because you too would say and do anything to bring people down to your level. DB comes off like a seething, pouty baby, a ranter who confuses bluster with significance, there is NOTHING professional in his angry spewing, certainly not an indicator of the presence of a real man.

You are all content to attack without knowledge, wisdom or understanding.

I just did a one-hour interview with a very religious Christian host, with equally religious listeners/callers. To my surprise they were all more genuine, reasonable human beings than these hosts and many of you here. Repsectful listeners, questioners - even in disagreement. I doubt that the underhanded comments and backbiting will be tacked on...after the show was done, as these guys did.

DB says I used harsh language on him, okay, what kind of a parasite writes that opening email of his to someone he doesn't even know...and with no cause? You're not troubled, after all, he's set the tone for you.

Our friendly hosts, however, had so little class as to actually attack one of their own guests - and tacked it on after the show was recorded. It doesn't matter who it was, the tactic shows their lack of integrity, their inability to apologize for their own low behavior shows their lack of character. That's not ,my fault, I get interviewed by all sorts of people - even people like these...for the first time though.

Now, if you think that any of my thoughts approach the vile level of garbage spewed towards Meier, his friends, the evidence and me, then you have less objectivity and understanding than even I thought you did.
 
David Biedny said:
Shawn,

I will not pull back ONE BIT. I do NOT like cults using bogus UFO "evidence" to support their whacked-out agendas, and attempt to call all other UFO research into question. You got me on that? The Meier camp has done tremendous damage to the field of legitimate UFO research, and I'm not happy about it. In fact, I'm doing something to counter it. You don't like my words? Too bad.

Michael has shown himself to be a ruthless aggressor, making nasty statements about our show and my own personal and professional integrity, and not only will I not stand for it, I'm willing to give as good as I get. You say he's not violent? He employs the language of violence and bullies and I will not allow this to slide. By challenging me to prove one of these images is fake, and questioning my credentials to undertake such an analysis, he has opened up a can of whup-ass. Thousands of images? I don't think so - I've just pulled one of the Meier cards out of the house, so much for stability. Perhaps you're having a little problem with deductive reasoning - I have definitively proven a Meier photo to be fake, so why should any of us trust a single word of the Meier yarn? And it's not the only image - read through the thread, I bring up specific problems with other images, such as ALL the "wedding cake" shots. There is plenty of other good, solid analysis work on the web that debunks other images. Why should we be asked to trust known liars?

Bullies should not pick fights they can't back up. Any brutish jerk who ever pushed me had his head handed to him.

dB


Billy Meier and the FIGU are not a cult, religion or belief system of any sort, they never have been. Korff has already lost his credibility by making statements such as yours, and if you continue making such false claims any credibilty that you may have will be lost also.

Meier and the FIGU do not have any "whacked-out agendas" as their position on various issues is presented clearly on their website.

I have read through all the posts in this thread and have not found any instance where Michael Horn has made nasty statements about your show and your own personal and professional integrity. In fact you have done this on numerous occations throughout this thread without any proof for your opinions.

Michael Horn is not making any demands but reasonably requests that you duplicate the image. The photo you have analysed which you believe to be fake must therefore be easily reproduced using modern technology. The photo in question was taken in 1979, way before personal computers and the modern technology that is commonplace today. 1979, the year the moog synthesizer was released and the blitzing Commodore PET with the 1 MHz 6502 processor, monochrome text and 8 KB of RAM. Wow. I think that should be able to handle photoshop. By the way, at the time these were not cheap. So by today's standards it would therefore not take very much time and effort at all.

You cannot continue making false claims about the Meier case and therefore FIGU if you have no proof. If you do not want to take the time and effort to duplicate the photo using modern technology and submit it for professional analysis then do not continue to present your false opinions like "the Meier camp has done tremendous damage to the field of legitimate UFO research...". They are unsubstanciated and strip any credibility you may have.

Age
 
DB has no credibility because he is simply not man enough to put up or shut up. Fancy theories, loud noises, no proof. DUPLICATION - and then you'll actually get my apology. You've already demonstrated by your attacks on Meier, FIGU, etc. that you are a characterless individual, it's the obvious conclusion drawn by looking at your own vile and nasty attacks...as I now see others are perceiving.

Sorry, you're NOT credible radio material either. Character and integrity count, and you're a zero in that department.
 
DB comes off like a seething, pouty baby, a ranter who confuses bluster with significance, there is NOTHING professional in his angry spewing, certainly not an indicator of the presence of a real man.


since there are a number of poseurs and losers here, my accomplishments in any number of areas dwarf yours, and none of the ignorant (and fundamentally jealous attacks) mean anything to me.


You're not bothered that he calls people he doesn't know - and into whose homes he isn't fit to enter - "unscrupulous" and members of a cult,

It just sounds to me like you're an attention seeker who wants to start a cult, isn't that right?


Now, if you think that any of my thoughts approach the vile level of garbage spewed towards Meier, his friends, the evidence and me, then you have less objectivity and understanding than even I thought you did.


The dyspepsia and frothing over this, that is nakedly exhibited by our venerable host here, is simply embarrassing to observe, how much more so should it be to actually be disgorging it? And I should be ashamed of myself? Gosh, the jealousy and envy displayed in this desperate attempt to ridicule a genuine scientific giant is pathetic.


Now, presuming that some intelligent folks populate this small forum, and that they are not taken in by sleight of hand and huffing and puffing, I invite those parties to look at the information that I have provided in my posts and carefully consider it...especially in the, unfortunately, characteristically light weight, unsubstantiated and off-point commentaries so far offered to counter my information.

Of course, I much prefer to yell "Fire!" when I see someone's house starting to burn but, if a less direct, less harsh, more pleasant and diplomatic tone is what they prefer...I just hope that they have fire insurance, since it appears that their preference what they "like", is more important than the plain, direct truth of the matter. Could it be that the Jack's character was on the mark when he said, "You can't handle the truth?"

Just asking, please, really, don't be offended. Anything but that.



And that means that it's their thinking, researching, logic, etc. (or usually lack thereof) that is the actual target of my barbs, not their person. However, being only human, I admit that it has sometimes gotten into that kind of expression from me too.


In the end, it all comes down to this:

BTW, after the show has aired, and David has posted his images, I'll be happy to respond to any issues regarding the photo in question.


We're waiting, Mr. Horn.
 
Michael812 said:
DB has no credibility because he is simply not man enough to put up or shut up. Fancy theories, loud noises, no proof. DUPLICATION - and then you'll actually get my apology. You've already demonstrated by your attacks on Meier, FIGU, etc. that you are a characterless individual, it's the obvious conclusion drawn by looking at your own vile and nasty attacks...as I now see others are perceiving.

Sorry, you're NOT credible radio material either. Character and integrity count, and you're a zero in that department.

I've never asked for an apology from you, I don't want it. You are the one who keeps demanding apologies. I don't care about you, I care about the facts.

Are you saying that you won't respond to my image analysis? Do you lack the "character and integrity" to follow up on your promise to respond SPECIFICALLY to my findings about the photo I looked at? Not some unseen expert who we can't corroborate, not someone who will not go on the record, but YOU. I've been man enough to go on the record, can you do the same?

Or are you left with nothing but emotional outbursts, misdirected outrage, and a complete lack of anything constructive or insightful regarding my detailed, objective image analysis?

I'm the Bad Guy, let's assume that for a moment, so bring me down by proving that a single conclusion I reached about the image I deconstructed is incorrect. Forget me, address the image analysis. Be an objective researcher, for just one response. COMMENT ON THE IMAGES. Tell me how I've made a mistake. You have solid, detailed proof that my analysis is wrong? Post it. Pretty please, with sugar on top. Is that nice enough?

WE'RE WAITING.

dB
 
Age,

I've posted proof of a fabricated image.

Do you have any comments about my analysis? Please address each specific problem I discovered in the photo. Forget me, David Biedny, but consider the image I analyzed.

Let's leave personalities out of this for a moment, and pretend we're all strangers, in a room, looking at some pictures. None of us has ever heard of Billy Meier, Michael Horn or Figu. We're shown an image analysis, and are asked for our thoughts and opinions about it.

What are your thoughts about the image analysis?

dB
 
Horn: "...my accomplishments in any number of areas dwarf yours..."

Fingernail art fad? A video showing seniors how to get fit? Some article in Kung Fu Magazine and asorted paranormal magazines? Painting? Self published author and self published song writer? (No offense, Horn, but your voice is horrid - just my pesonal opinion) Someone who knew someone important invited you to do something for them? My, my, my, your are qualified to do an investigation... ::)

Wow. It's all ego here folks, as we are <cough> apparently so below Horn here - that's why he keeps coming back with claims of jealousy. Really, who is the jealous one here? Good grief Horn, I have never encounter a more self righteous, self absorbed, egotistical, overbearing, nut. :eek:

It really is so sad to see someone like Horn who appears to be a pretty intelligent guy make such an ass out of himself. I'm not being derogatory here and it is really sad to see a guy with so much zeal for this case waste his time on it when he could have done so much more for UFOlogy. But as the guys at Ufo Watchdog say, the belief factor/need to believe cleary wins out here with Horn.

Yeah, the Photoshop expert is just a wanna' be. Everyone who questions the Meier case and asks hard questions or doesn't simply agree with Horn is a wanna' be. We get it Horn.

Horn's list of so-called credentials is a joke in the field of investigation and his bizarre behavior, inability to answer key direct questions, and the fact that Horn has done nothing but quote everyone else's research demonstrates his unwavering devotion to Meier. All I've heard from Horn is "you're jealous", "you're a wanna' be", "replicate it", "you're a loser", "what about this other picture or video", "aplogize immediately", "you hae no character", "you're a coward", and so on.

Horn isn't interested in any analysis that has a negative impact on the Meier case. Horn cites other supposed experts and investigators (Dilettoso :D, Stevens, the Elders, etc) and is quick to inject the opinions of his nameless "experts." Horn's zeal for the debate is two fold from what I can see. First, it seems to be all he has. Second, he can generate publicity from it by alleging to have defeated all opposition to the case by declaring victory at every bad turn by attempting to play the neutral researcher who is blown away with the case and is constantly under attack. ::) Horn is the big Billy Meier hero sticking up for poor Billy against all picking on him. Poor, poor, Billy. :'(

Horn continually uses the statement of Robert Post from JPL. Horn likes to read this in a fashion that leads the listener into believing that this somehow validates the Meier case, when it is nothing but a statement Post is alleged to have made, which was, "From a photography standpoint, you couldn't see anything that was fake about the Meier photos. That's what struck me. They looked like legitimate photographs. I thought, 'God, if this is real, this is going to be really something.'"

Horn tosses NASA and JPL out there as endorsements to the authenticity and someone posted that JPL did not have sufficient samples to conduct any type of analysis. JPL wasn't, apparently, even provided negatives for an analysis. I don't recall Horn relaying this information and that Robert Post only examined prints with his naked eye. This would then be nothing short of an outright omission of an important detail one would need to come to a conclusion. Using Post's statement in the manner Horn uses leaves one with the impression that Post analyzed the photos and it also carries with it somewhat of an emotional impact. Horn certainly knows how to play the crowd, that is until the crowd starts pointing out big flaws.

To see where Horn stands in all of this, one only need read the first bit from Horn's own bio:

Michael Horn is the Authorized American Media Representative for the Billy Meier Contacts (www.theyfly.com), which he has researched since 1979 (and proved to be absolutely authentic) and is the writer, producer and narrator of the new DVD "The Meier Contacts - The Key To Our Future Survival".

Arguing with Horn is a waste of time. Horn has already made his mind up. A person so committed to an ideal is simply incapable of any other rational line of thought no matter how well communicated or demonstrated information to the contrary is presented. I'm already hearing Horn trying to turn the last sentence around on me and/or anyone else here not agreeing with him.

I've heard Horn before and thought he was pretty crafty with his presentation and arguments. At one point I was actually pretty impressed with Horn. After witnessing this episode, his arrogant and spiteful e-mails, and his dizzying attempts at misdirection, if I were Meier I'd be finding a different representative. :-[

I've enjoyed this forum and very much have enjoyed the show. thanks guys for a great show and one of the best BBS's I have ever seen.
 
Seems to me that some people did make an effort to duplicate Meier's photographs and thoroughly examined his material and found ways to duplicate exactly just that.
David, have a look at the next link where a Herbert Runkel, Bernd Johann, and Thomas Klingler duplicate the photograph you've examined. In all fairness I should say that I don't know in what way they duplicated that particular photograph. Nonetheless, it's clear proof that a Meier photograph is easily duplicated once you know how to do it.
http://www.billymeier.com/Periodicals/Bulletin_10.html

Strangely, I haven't seen Michael Horn comment on the images while he has a habit of demanding that others duplicate Meier's material. Seems to me that some people did just that.

Jeff Ritzmann, who has an expertise in the field as well, did in fact duplicate some of Meier's pictures by using a model and a string. After that Horn challenged him to duplicate the WC UFO and Ritzmann made an incomplete effort (probably due to time constrictments) which Horn of course capatalised on.
They Fly.com - The Billy Meier 'Hoax' Exposed ? - The Wedding Cake UFO Controversy
Nonetheless Ritzmann did meet Horn's original request and duplicated similar 'beamship' pictures by using a model and a string, not that it was transparent in Horn's rebuttal. ;)
http://www.carbonchamber.com/bm/shot3.jpg
Billy Meier called the New Nostradamus!?!?, page 13
 
I just read the thread with Horn and Ritzmann from the link provided by TX. Whoa! So Horn challenges this Ritzmann guy to duplicate the photos and he does it. Then Horn is unhappy with that so he challenges Ritzmann to duplicate the WCUFO. Next we find out that the WCUFO photos have not been analyzed or verified! This Ritzmann guy then lays it out ny telling Horn that he will submit his own UFO photos and negatives (Ritzmann's photos were just as good if not better than Meier's) for the same analysis so long as Horn is willing to do the smae with Meier's photos and negatives. Of course, Horn turns to spin and name calling and is warned several times by the moderators...deja vu anyone?

Anyhow, I'd recommend going and reading that other thread and looking at the Ritzmann photos that easily duplicate anything Meier has. This Ritzmann fellow was nothing but polite, a bit fired up but still polite, and Horn's claws came out when it was clear that Ritzmann had cornered Horn.

With that it is now concrete in my book that Horn is a lunatic who will sell and promote Meier at all cost and to hell with reason and logic. By the way, Horn throws out that bit about JPL being involved when it is clear they did no analysis.
 
And it looks like Horn has freaked

MrUFO,

Thanks for saying the things I've wanted to, but have avoided in order to stay on the high road. I've read Horn's bio, and I'll put my own against it any day. His bizarre outbreak of rage, that his " accomplishments in any number of areas dwarf yours...", is really out there and indicative of his character - HE is the one consumed with anger and jealousy. His words are such classic examples of psychological projection, I've really found it be somewhat painful to witness. Watching someone who is obviously intelligent (Mr. Horn, take that as a compliment) lose it on here has, frankly, given me little pleasure. I am NOT a masochist, but as I've mentioned, Mr. Horn definitely displays some clear traits associated with typical sadomasochistic behaviour. It's not a pretty sight.

On the show, Gene told Michael that I could not be happier to have someone produce a genuine set of UFO photos, and he's exactly right - I am a person who would LOVE to have some hard evidence of the UFO phenomenon, something concrete and conclusive. At one point Horn stated that I don't believe in spaceships. Jeez, anyone who listens to episode 5 of The Paracast knows about my detailed description of the cigar craft I witnessed - with a large number of other people - so it's pretty darned clear that I do indeed believe that I saw something not made by current human technology. I don't claim to know exactly what it was, I wish I could provide photographic evidence of it, but I didn't have a camera that day, that moment. How I wish that were not the case - and I won't mention how my father, a professional photographer, went on a rant that night about how pissed he was that he didn't have one of his beloved Mamiyas with him that evening. It really bothered him to no end. At the mention of this Caracas experience, Horn claimed that I shared my story with our listeners in order to create my own "cult". I submit that this outburst was a form of projection, a type of subconscious admission that this is exactly what Meier has done in his own actions. Guys, I say this once, and my girlfriend will back me up: the only reason I would EVER want to be a cult leader would be hordes of women I would have at my beck and call (under her watchful eye, mind you!) ;D But seriously, his demands for notarized documents for my own recounting of an episode of my life were bizarre, and the definition of defensiveness. Another one of the Meier groupies, on another thread, asked me for notarized proof of my having read a bunch of the Meier writings. Clearly, logic is not a priority for these folks. It's sad, and a little scary. This is the exact same reality that has brought the US to the rather dreadful geopolitical situation in which we find ourselves - blind faith in a charismatic leader figure with shady agendas is a dangerous thing.

TerraX, thanks for those links, it looks to me that Herbert Runkel, Bernd Johann, Thomas Klingler and Ritzmann did very decent jobs of creating passable fabricated images. Horn claims that they're not exact, or that they wouldn't pass testing, but it's clear that Horn has shown absolutely no sense of objectivity or scientific process. What testing did Meier's images undergo? Where is the independant lab or photo EXPERTS? I have no doubt that were I to take the time to reproduce an exact recreation of a Meier photo, he would instantly discount it and attack my character and who knows what else, before huffing off in a rage, as he has done here. When I discovered that Marcel Vogel, contrary to Horn's claims, does not hold ANY patents as far as the US Patent Office database is concerned, he tried to say I was attacking Vogel's credibility, and then claimed that if some magazine printed this error, that he was indemnified. This was just wacky - all Horn had to do was admit that he had made a mistake, but no, he turned the issue into a debate of whether an individual working for a large corporation would have his name appear on a patent filed by the company (as I pointed out at the time, individuals MUST be listed on a patent along with the sponsoring corporation). Mr. Horn has not updated his references to Vogel's "32" patents, nor will he, even with the knowledge that there ARE no Vogel patents - not my opinion, but objective fact. What are we to surmise from this type of behaviour?

I made a challenge for ANY image of Meiers to be looked at by Dennis Muren, Horn did not respond to the request. I have no doubt about what Dennis would say - that they were crude fakes. It's what my buddy Dave Berry would say, in fact, we've talked about these images in the past, when I've told Dave about some of my feelings about the UFO field and how it's been marginalized, I showed him some of the Meier pictures (along with some other images I feel are genuine), he laughed out loud. Dave was a key member of the original Star Wars opticals crew, anyone can see his credits on imdb.com.

I feel that I have done the work to show clearly and objectively that a particular Meier image is fabricated, and the artifacts left in the photo that make a clear case for it being a photo composite. Neither Horn, nor any of the other believers he's sent here to make battle, have made a single objective, detailed comment about my findings, which I have posted here for public scrutiny. They can't and won't - they deny it, but they ultimately have to face the logical fact that a lie is a lie is a lie. One untruth brings down the whole shebang - it's the key flaw with group of folk that believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, and not one word of it can be wrong. Prove any one element is not factual, and the whole house of bizarro logic comes tumbling down. Does that mean that the Bible has no intrinsic value? Of course not, it served as a basis for law and human behaviour for a long, long time, and there's nothing wrong with the productive parts of it. That said, it's pretty darned brutal and harsh at times, and lots of the behaviour it prescribes would be considered outrageously barbaric. Many people have died in service of the words of that book. It's a product of the times and people who wrote it, nothing surprising there. Do Meier's philosophical writings have some merit? Absolutely. My problem with this whole thing is that I think it's pretty clear that Meier has created a situation where, as I've stated more than once, legitimate UFO research is marginalized and the obvious fakery displayed by the Meier camp has created fuel for the arguments of the uber-skeptics. In his responses to me, Horn seems to want to group me into the Randi crowd, and the sad fact is that he couldn't be more wrong about me and my motives. I'm doing the Paracast with Gene in order to come to some understanding of what is really going on in the paranormal world, in as much as anyone reasonably can. I've never claimed to be a "professional UFO researcher", I already have a professional career in computer graphics and technology.

Alright, enough from me on this topic. I welcome your comments, and hope that future episodes of The Paracast will continue our quest for a deeper understanding of the paranormal side of reality, and the people who make this field interesting and worth further study. Thanks for listening and reading.

dB
 
DB,

You do phenomenal work and I think it speaks volumes that even after your personal experiences you can objectively approach a claim like this and analyze the evidence. It's obvious that too much time and energy has already been spent on this subject and look forward to less birthday or wedding cake flying craft and stories, and more legitimate sightings and experiences.

/dk
 
Have to agree jritzmann's UFO pics are better that Meier's. I'm joining jritzmann's cult instead ;D ;D, Michael Horn can go play with his marbles on the freeway.
 
For those of you with logical, objective thinking capabilities, allow me to show you how, in their mad rush to destroy people's reputations at any cost, skeptics often elevate their opponents, the target of their rage, to far greater levels of accomplishment than is humanly possible...and certainly much, much higher than their own.

Case in point, the snide assertions by DB, and others on this forum, that I was lying, that I didn't really consult other experts and cite their own qualified opinions that contradicted DB's claims. For instance, I quoted a man I know, who has probably twice the experience in film/movie-making/special effects that DB does. And I was honest enough to tell you that he's a skeptic and doesn't believe in "spaceships", his own quaint term for ET UFOs. He was the person who instantly observed that the photo in question was a triple, not a double, exposure. He saw that, not DB - the "Photoshop Prophet of Earth".

Now he pointed it out to me, since I'm an admittedly certifiable dolt as far as photography, Photoshop, etc. are concerned, for DB to effectively credit me with making this fellow up, he was, by default, making me more knowledgeable in these areas than he, the self-proclaimed (and probably actual) expert that he is. My friend also said that these were most likely in-camera effects, not out-of-camera super-impositions. He also thought that it was so impossible to determine if they were deliberate fakes, it actually seemed somewhat unlikely and beyond Meier's known abilities and equipment, that my friend said, objectively, that anyone claiming that it was a deliberate hoax should be required to prove it by duplicating with the known equipment and closest possible conditions as were available to Meier.

Then there were the comments I noted by two other film specialists in L.A. that I was likewise accused of inventing. Since I didn't notice DB vigorously attacking their comments (about the difficulty of an amateur without darkroom facilities doing E6 developing, the possibility of an in-camera double/triple exposure attributable to the way some sprocket mechanism works, etc.), and not because they weren't accurate and feasible, but attack me, again the implication was that I was the source of the comments, which were in line also with what my friend said...but totally outside the range of my limited film-related knowledge. I may well have missed some of the subtleties of what they were saying as well, since it's a different language to me.

Nonetheless, all of the other experts gave plausible, and not extraordinary, explanations for how the triple exposure effect could have occurred well within the range of possibilities, the people here who were in their mad rush to attack the photo, Meier, me, etc. instead inadvertently elevated me and/or my information to some position of authority and/or expertise that was not only effectively above DB's but clearly not accurate about my own abilities and knowledge.

The joke of the matter, in the larger scheme of things, is that this is exactly what has been going on with Meier for decades but on a much larger, and even more preposterous, level. It's even been continued on this forum, and others, in no small part due to the fact that so many people lead what can only be called imaginary, virtual lives of their own that they really can't distinguish reality from the fantasies that they churn in their heads, and freely spew onto internet forums due to the ease of doing so.

In Meier's case, people have effectively attributed to him stellar levels of abilities in: photography, filmmaking, video making, model making, miniature making, special effects, digital effects, sound engineering, sound fabrication, electronics, physics, astrophysics, quantum physics, geology, biology, metallurgy, history, environmental sciences, meteorology, astronomy, zoology, vulcanism, genetic engineering, mass hypnosis, all sorts of "lucky guessing", etc., etc. Rather than allow their own fragile, threatened egos to have to contend with the unpleasant realities of their own lack of comparable (any?) achievements, their petty motivations to demolish another human being and his genuine situation as a contactee of other more advanced people, leads them to actually attribute to the man himself such remarkable and unheard of abilities as to make these accusers even more impotent and worthless in comparison...and they do it to themselves!

So, it is this same ugly, vindictive, bring-the-man-down-to-our-level mentality that, in like fashion as is done to Meier but on a far smaller scale, resulted in DB and others effectively giving me far more credit than I deserved, in a field in which I know actually so little, and by so doing attributed to me accurate information that at once was missed by DB and, at the same time, provided an accurate, alternative explanation for aspects of the effects in question.

And so, at this point, while we might expect DB (in his very familiar style) to come back now, even though it's really too late, and try to diminish or ridicule the accuracy and/or importance of information that actually was neither disputed nor put forth by him in the first place, we find ourselves with this microcosmic example of how the small-minded work to undermine the high-minded and, ironically - especially in Meier's case - actually end up instead elevating their status to inaccurately high levels of personal achievement, instead of allowing the equally, or even greater and more amazing truth about the nature of their contacts, to be given due credit.

This is one of the reasons why Meier has repeatedly said that he is grateful for his opponents and their intense, even virulent, opposition, which on forums like this can also take the form of comically absurd theories like Meier walking around on his knees, or miraculously being able to not only manufacture an exquisite "two-dimensional cut-out", or a stunning, detailed model - take your pick - but suspending it, absolutely motionless(!) next to a "model tree" (which actually does display movement from the wind) by "hanging it on a string", etc. - an accomplishment that is far beyond anyone here, let alone anyone I know, but not beyond the absurd limits of the negatively inspired imaginations of the petty, vindictive and utterly foolish.

And why shouldn't Meier be grateful then for such envy-inspired, deranged assaults since they are largely responsible for brining knowledge of this controversial, and vitally important, case to worldwide attention, which inspires many people to search out more information about it and, hopefully through their awareness, help to avert the otherwise catastrophic consequences of the angry, ignorant, aggressive human-originated actions - such as we see in this microcosm here - that are the causes of so many of our problems?

As for my own small role, I can summarize my intentions in a few words...I want to help make the prophecies wrong. And you, what do you want to do, feed your egos with negativity, or help to avert our otherwise unavoidable destruction? We've been given some valuable assistance towards the positive assurance of our future survival by those who are the source of the information in the Meier case. The choice is ours, and yours, to explore and utilize it...or not, as the case may be.
 
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