• NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

Michael Horn & The Billy Meier Contacts

Do you believe the Billy Meier Contacts and Evidence Are Real?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not Sure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
Status
Not open for further replies.
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Maybe try youtube.com Morrison. If they block Google, they probably will block that too though.

No new stuff from BM so far as I know. Mostly just dogma.

He who shall not be named is something forums do in place of naming a particular person. I just got a warning from a moderator at a bigfoot forum for talking about a "researcher" name Beckjord. He really ticked them off apparently. In the warning the moderator told me to not mention "He who shall not be named". I'm not surprised, since the guy makes even the, He who shall not be named person that's here look sane. Even ufowatchdog.com took down his name and photos.
see: "Who Cares" at http://ufowatchdog.com/hall2.html This is NOT the same person who's being blocked here though. Yet. I'm sure he would be if he came over for only a few visits.

So, something similar happened here but with a different person.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Okay, I'll repost it below...also saw stuff he's sending around that vindicates Vgel convincingly. Looking into more claims...counter claims:

Hi Tiger,

Yes, I remember meeting there and you told me about seeing me
overseas, etc.

You really touch a special place in my heart when you talk about
those forums. As far as Ritzmann goes, you heard the laughter from
the audience when I put his bozophotos up side by side with Meier's.
All I had to say was, "look." I also said that he promised a video
duplication of the WCUFO but was complaining like a big crybaby and
giving lots of excuses why he wasn't going to (read: CAN'T) do it. I
am thinking of putting that comparison segment, and my demolishing of
Biedney's "double exposure" claim, out as part of a separate DVD, as
it should quiet the skeptics pretty well and get a whole lot more
people to recognize the truth of the matter.

Royce Meyers is the guy you're talking about from www.ufowatchdog.com
and for a while I was afraid that he might actually take down or
retract his junk about Meier, especially in light of all the info on
my site and elsewhere. So I've goaded him a bit, called him names,
etc. Knowing how these cowards work, I kind of guaranteed continued
coverage, like I get from ATS and even the paraidiots site. I am able
to track at least some of the places where traffic comes from to my
site and I'm heartened to see those sites delivering at least some
enquiring minds for a look see themselves, though the two best ones
of the lot are watchdog and ATS, with DB and GS falling off, so go
recruit people to their site/forum!

A certain percentage of people who hear/read about the case, as a
result of some fool attacking it, actually contact me through email
and ask questions (to their credit) since what I present doesn't
match what the critics have to say. The absolute majority of those
people eventually get back to me with their support of the case. They
sometimes also ask if I think they should give the skeptics a piece
of their mind, to which I usually say, "No! Don't blow the free
advertising for me!"

A recent example of how easy it is to get these guys to promote my
site - and events - is when I sent a supposed "Press Release" to a
closed email list they were on. Naturally, Ritzmann and Biedney took
the bait and proceeded to give me a lot of free (griping!) coverage,
not only accounting for more hits to my site but also to the
attendance of the event. As they say, you can't buy promotion like
this (at least not on my budget).

BTW, when someone like astrophysicist David Froning personally tells
me, and my audience, how impressed he and some of his scientific
associates are with the Meier case, do you really think that the
clucking of a couple of amateur, online hens means anything in
comparison?

There's also an idiot in France or somewhere who is helping the cause
with his REALLY nutty attacks on the WCUFO pics. In response to those
inquiries, I send people to http://www.tjresearch.info/wedcake.htm
where James Deardorff does an admirable job of showing that no
"garbage can lids" or models were involved in any way. I've visited
Billy twice this year and one of the things that makes him laugh out
loud - literally - is the "models" theory and the silly attempts by
Ritzmann, IIG, etc. I've sat around with him and other witnesses,
including a few of the other photographers, and they simply wonder
just what the idiot Americans, who've never lifted their fat butts
off their chairs and checked stuff out in person, must be smoking.

A few years ago Meier got a letter (which they still have) from a man
in the area who, with his wife, had been detractors of his. Then, as
luck would have it, one day this guy actually sees one of the ships
over the center and almost drives off the road. He writes Meier to
apologize profusely BUT asks that no reply or public mention is made
since his wife is some kind of religious nut, a kind of Biedney
character, who can't handle the reality of it and would probably have
thought that her husband was possessed by demons if he admitted what
he saw first hand.

Yes, I heard that they are elevating me to cult status, gee, isn't
the free advertising reward enough?!?! And the latest thing that came
around was some demand for proof of the attempts on Meier's life, as
if they couldn't write to FIGU or the Swiss police themselves, wow,
some researchers. Speaking of which, now that I'm on a roll, Biedney
had claimed that Meier used an enlarger to fake photos, which has
already - and long ago - established to be complete nonsense. I was
going to offer $1,000 to him for proof but I knew that meant that
he'd actually have to research the whole matter and he's demonstrated
his inability to do that, even for a real pay off. Considering how
well the Swiss keep records, if Meier bought an enlarger the evidence
is still there.

He also has claimed that all of Meier's photographic (and presumedly
other) evidence is fake - which is a most REMARKABLE claim from a
couch potato who hasn't even SEEN all of Meier's evidence, let alone
tested or tried to duplicate it. At least Ritzmann gave it the old
college try (looks like he's going to have to repeat a few grades!)
while Biedney always has excuses why he won't try, another way of
simply surrendering and saying that he CAN'T do it.

Now you've probably heard a lot of this before but here's something
else. If you look at my site you'll see the articles that pertain to
Israel on the home page and they are finally bearing some fruit in
terms of an increase of about 10 times the number of hits from Israel
than I usually get. Since my real goal is to help prove the
prophecies wrong, anything that wakes up the good people of that
country to the real holocaust that will otherwise obliterate them is
a positive thing, as far as I'm concerned. I'd say the same thing for
this country but I'm afraid that the evidence, such as exists in the
form of the various know-it-all skeptics, shows that it's probably
too late - very regrettably - to forestall what will happen here.

MH
www.theyfly.com

P.S. Watch out for these new fascists in Amerika, the guys on that
forum and other ones. If you don't agree with them they'll exile you,
i.e. boot your butt off the forum. Wouldn't be a big loss for you,
just a warning. They may be my advertisers but I can't help you out
there!



P.P.S. Okay, if you've gotten this far then I've got a gift for you
(you won't know it if you dodn't read this whole thing!). You said
that you had some of the products and I don't know what you have
since I don't handle the business stuff. But I'll be glad to send you
the double DVD set for free if you send your address info to my
assistant at [email protected] and tell her who you are. If you already
have that set, let her know and we'll figure something else out.



> Hello Mr. Horn,
>
> We spoke at your lecture in Toronto...I'm the guy who
> travels a lot and also saw you at Nexus.
>
> I've joined the Paracast forum to see what they have
> to say. there are other critics on there...like Jeff
> Ritzmann and www.ufowatchdog.com guy. You didn't
> mention watchdog, any comments about him?
>
> They don't use your name there...I haven't seen
> anything yet that's really strong against
> Meier...seems they don't like him or you.
>
> Your thoughts...?
>
> Tiger
>
>
>
>
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

OMG. :eek:

Not sure if this is legit or not, but in case it is, glad you posted that Tiger. Haven't read it all YET, but sure will.

If true, I have been too generous on him in just considering him a dogmatic person who is sincere, AND sincerely wrong. To not only that, but now, a greedy troll.

/edit: Read it all.

He didn't get banned for his disagreeing. I personally don't believe in most bans, but for members to be able to block posts, and/or posters. He got banned due to breaking some of the rules. He also got several warnings.

These forums are not mine and I am a guest, so I try to follow the rules so I don't get banned. Plus, they are common sense rules that are easy to follow. For many, most of the time at least. Or, at least I should hope.

Many people can't duplicate magic tricks. It doesn't prove that magic is real.

His negative publicity hurts his sells more than it helps it I reason. I would think the spiritual path wouldn't be how much one makes/sells, but HOW, WHY, and WHAT one does in their work/play/hobbie etc.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

ZTGR. Funny how you keep posting Horn's messages but don't look into other stuff. There are always 2 sides to a story. Maybe, just maybe, to get a real balanced view of the matter you need to research both pro and con, conclude what's proven and what's not and then form your conclusion.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

TerraX,

I would be interested in any other substantial cases...so far none seem that intersting. I'm more in line with the Meier stuff because of the info I found in it...also how a guy keeps going for so long with so many people against him...but they never seem to really defeat him...prove a hoax.

Maybe you know of something as good...but I looked at Gulf Breeze, Roswell, Adamski, Lazar, MJ 12...and probably whatever else is around. To me at least no comparison...so far.

One question that someone on their group said was 'what would it mean IF it's true'...that makes me think of a bunch of things...haven't seen that in the other stories...
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

He's went on so long because people interpret what some say is indication as a hoax, as indication of something else. There are cons that last a long time, the gullible and con artist keep them alive.

If you are looking for a legit case with as many photos, videos, and alleged contacts that BM has had, good luck. There isn't any I'm aware of in my little over 2 decades of research. This is another reason his case keeps going. It fulfills a need and caters to the wishful.

Some people refuse to look at the damning evidence, some of which is in this thread. Check some of the links out. The tac off the WCC, Dean Martin show dancer, Admissions and excuses by Billy from even pro Billy sources, the Dinosaur pic, David and other's analysis, the evidence that researchers have been dishonest (Dilletoso, HWSNBN). All have been linked in this thread. If what can be found here is not proof of fraud then little else will convince you.

There are some people still convinced OJ didn't do a double murder, yet in my mind it's been adequately proven he did. The BM case is similar in the sense I think it's been proven that he is a hoaxer while others do not. I think they are stupid and they think I am stupid in the end, so things continue on. Having said that, there are links within this thread, that clearly show Billy as a hoaxer. Again, here is SOME.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

P.S. I don't know about the greedy stuff...dogmatic maybe true. If he tells the truth...the rep...then he doesn't make much money from it...would make sense to let others promote it for better or worse. Couldn't run my business that way...but I'm not in a controversial world.

If he sends me the DVDs free I'll let everyone know.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Before your e-mail that you posted, I wasn't sure about him being greedy either:)
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Mindsky,
Sorry but you make more of a case for Meier than against him with those comments. Look...this site has all these people against him...there are others too. Don't you think he'd really be busted by now? You even said it's more than 20 years...

I'm no believer in anything...just want the facts...don't want to be taken in by gurus, hoaxers. I have seen the Contact movie about Meier and the video with the metal and the UFos...if there's anything comparable point me to it...and point out why those films are hoaxes or wrong.

Attacking or criticizing alone...doesn't make a thing a lie...anymore than just Meier or the rep saying it's true. So what does it mean IF it is real, like the Meier people say? Another thing I thought of, if it isn't about money for the Meier people...no proof that I know of...just why does this case get everybdy...here...so mad?
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Mindsky,
Do you mean it's greedy to get other people who criticize you to promote you...or kinda clever...even if we don't like it? If someone says I'm greedy or a thief or something...they have to show it...prove it.

I don't do my job for free...heck, I'd love someone to pay me for not doing anything...
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

ZTGR said:
Mindsky,
Sorry but you make more of a case for Meier than against him with those comments. Look...this site has all these people against him...there are others too. Don't you think he'd really be busted by now? You even said it's more than 20 years...

I'm no believer in anything...just want the facts...don't want to be taken in by gurus, hoaxers. I have seen the Contact movie about Meier and the video with the metal and the UFos...if there's anything comparable point me to it...and point out why those films are hoaxes or wrong.

Attacking or criticizing alone...doesn't make a thing a lie...anymore than just Meier or the rep saying it's true. So what does it mean IF it is real, like the Meier people say? Another thing I thought of, if it isn't about money for the Meier people...no proof that I know of...just why does this case get everybdy...here...so mad?

Actually, the Meier case was busted a long, long time ago. If you look at this forum alone, you'll see where David Biedny reviewed a Meier photo and found it to be an obvious fake. One of our regulars, in this forum and on the show, Jeff Ritzmann, showed how easily the so-called "Wedding Cake" photo has been duplicated.

In short, when you attempt to analyze the so-called evidence in that case, it comes up wanting. We allowed Horn and his minions full opportunity to express their points of view early on. They couldn't provide any evidence, just personal attacks, misdirections and false claims.

There are lots and lots of compelling reports of UFO encounters out there. But the Meier case is not among them.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

I have to disagree...I saw two lectures...the second one had Ritzmann's photos and they don't hold up at all to Meier's. I've been looking at the Wedding Cake photos and video film....also sorry to disagree.

The rep also did a big screen critic of the photo that David Biedney said was a hoax...he seemed to make good sense...I have notes somewhere to get the points from. And that's ONE photo where Billy Meier is said to have taken more than 1,000...and the films and all that...plus there are the sounds he recorded. The rep sent out stuff on Vogel that shows he was a real expert with all the patents...you guys here I think said it wasn't true and I read the stuff on his site about the other experts.

Maybe he left out a criticism from an expert...still seems the majority said it was credible. I don't know what other UFO encounters you mean...I say I am looking for some case that is as compelling with all the things that the Mieer case has...like Mindsky says for more than 20 years. I don't think you can say that Jeff Ritzmann's photos will earn 20 years of study. Really...I was there and nothing had to be said to see the difference. I feel for Jeff if he has people reading the review that's on the rep's site...it was that obvious.

I don't know about everything in the Meier story but I can't let statements like what you said just go unanswered.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

JR discussed what photos MH used at his lectures. He used unfinished photos and MH didn't let you in on the time kicker. I strongly recommend reading through this thread for other info. so I don't have to rehash what's already been rehashed. Sorry to sound lazy, but if you read through the thread you can see how someone could get a little burned out on the same issues instead of elaborating on them. If there is elaboration on what is already here, I'm more game.

There may be controversy around Jeff's photos for twenty years. We need 20 yrs to happen first.

Now one has to duplicate the buzz too?

Ok, Jeff, start claiming your photos are REAL, then see things really FLY. Also, start a religion, get on radio and tv, make vids and sell products just in case the photos alone don't do it.

The bible is loaded with things that did not happen, it's been around a long time. Why? People choose to believe it. Longevity doesn't make things more accurate, in fact, it makes things more easy to distort. Pro and con, and therefore leading to more debate and Buzz.

I do appreciate you being civil greatly and speaks of character. Maybe you could teach it to MH someday:) Just kidding. Kinda.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

First...I try to be civil since I like pople to be civil to me too!...so thanks.

Re the Ritzmann photos I heard the rep say that they were the ones that he...posted or sent to him or everyone...except maybe for one from what I read the rep say. So if Jeff meant other photos we should them...the rep showed 4 or 5 and then the model of the Cake...

I don't fault anyone for having videos...without them I couldn't see the evidence in the case either...so that's not bad per se. I don't see a religion...maybe you know about that but nothing about a religion at the two lectures I saw...or in the videos...I also have his first DVD (I think it's the first).

Now there are things I saw on that that definitely happened later and...I hope not but look like they may...that's now not like in the bible.

Like I said...I'm a pro Meier guy and a devil's advocate and criticism has got to be more specific...and correct...to convince me it's all a hoax.

You don't get photos of models discussed for 20 years either...this is a tough nut to crack and maybe there's a reason...that we don't either know or understand yet.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

ZTGR said:
First...I try to be civil since I like pople to be civil to me too!...so thanks.

Re the Ritzmann photos I heard the rep say that they were the ones that he...posted or sent to him or everyone...except maybe for one from what I read the rep say. So if Jeff meant other photos we should them...the rep showed 4 or 5 and then the model of the Cake...

I don't fault anyone for having videos...without them I couldn't see the evidence in the case either...so that's not bad per se. I don't see a religion...maybe you know about that but nothing about a religion at the two lectures I saw...or in the videos...I also have his first DVD (I think it's the first).

Now there are things I saw on that that definitely happened later and...I hope not but look like they may...that's now not like in the bible.

Like I said...I'm a pro Meier guy and a devil's advocate and criticism has got to be more specific...and correct...to convince me it's all a hoax.

You don't get photos of models discussed for 20 years either...this is a tough nut to crack and maybe there's a reason...that we don't either know or understand yet.

I won't repeat everything here, except to say there are hundreds of messages in this thread, and many contain detailed information on some of the Meier hoaxes. I've heard the claims that someone has found the alleged Vogel patents, which aren't available via normal search channels. However, I've not seen the specifics, just the claims. This is the problem with the alleged expert testimony about Meier. When you look into it, it all falls apart.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

I haven't opened all the files up but I got them...maybe in a couople of days when I'm back online I'll send them or you can give me an email address whatever. I did see Vogel's name in there on a page or two I looked at...had to go through a lot of names but he's there...also another differnt Vogel person.

But if it's true...real IBM stuff...then the civil thing to do is retract on that. I just don't think they're going to float a lot of stuff that's easy to bust...would have ended the case long ago...especially with science experts and all that.

The rep made a big thing too about Dr. Foening I think and he's a real defense industry scientist...there's a bunch of stuff on an article there...his site.

This reminds me of like one guy playing tennis with a bunch of people...trying to keep all the balls in the air. So far...pretty good...I like a challenge too...couldn't do this one myself but I have to give it to anyone who can. Meier...been doing it for years and then the rep. BTW, he's just a little guy when you meet him...in person...in good shape and has a funny sense of humor...not what I thought from all the other stuff...if I had met him after being here I wouldn't think you're talking about the same guy.

I've met a few people like that before...hard to tell about someone just from the internet...you meet someone in person and get a sense about their motives...that's why I don't buy the greed idea...as I said yeah dogmatic. Hey guys here are too!be more answers are coming...I can send teh Vogel files...

Back in a few days...may
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named™ & The Billy Meier Contacts

So He Who Shall Not Be Named™ equates me to a religious zealot, continues to selectively misquote me, misrepresents his interactions with Ritzmann, REFUSES to directly address ANY and ALL of the MANY issues that have been raised about many of the photos, lies about his "expert" testimony, fabricates a psychiatric "evaluation" of this thread, makes excuses for the faked evidence, cites death threats without any corresponding proof, and tries to lay the burden of proof on folks like Ritzmann and myself by demanding we recreate the faked images, which of course, would only prove that we could duplicate FAKE images. He flagrantly ignores any sense of logic, reduces himself to vulgar personal attacks and other forms of psychotic, abusive behaviour and infantile name calling, and seems to derive some sort of sick, masochistic pleasure from all the negative attention. His "funny sense of humor" is well documented in this thread, and it's disgusting. This "case" has been thoroughly discredited and discarded by any paranormal researcher who has spent more than an hour looking at the "evidence", while gullible followers lap it up without question or independent, objective inquiry. In your last post, you claim you were sent patent documents that you didn't even take the time to actually read in any detail. Go ahead and post those documents, they're so genuine and factual.

The folks at his "multimedia presentation" in Canada appear to have mostly been people who were already "believers", having already bought into this nonsense hook, line and sinker, and who needed no proof to believe that Meier has something to offer outside of tired, self-aggrandizing philosophical meanderings. Meier claims to be Jesus reincarnate, claims to be the only person on the planet who has had contact with ETs, and has done everything all by himself with one arm. Yeah, right.

ZTGR, you are free to believe anything you want, but if you are not diligent enough to use deductive reasoning, analytical logic, inquisitiveness, curiosity, clarity and a sense of actual intuitive insight - or your eyes, as most of the photos are clearly ridiculous - then there's nothing anyone can say, write, prove or do to change your mind. And I'll let you in on a little secret - I personally don't care about changing your mind. Belief is for the lazy souls of the world - understanding and arriving at true knowledge, well, that takes actual, honest effort and hard work. I've seen and lived through enough in my life to have a pretty good idea of what's possible, and what it just plain old B.S. The truth of Meier's paranormal claims is quite obvious, and in case I haven't mentioned this, I looked at the materials around the Meier thing many years ago - in fact, I even happen to own the laserdisk called the "Billy Meier Chronicles", which I once brought into work while I was a digital artist and animator at ILM. We all laughed our asses off at this pristine "evidence", and in case you don't know, I'm talking about the top special effects minds in the visual FX industry. I once read on the Figu message boards that MH, as well as other folks, wondered what the top special effects expert IN THE WORLD would say if he saw this junk. Well, here's something you can let He Who Shall Not Be Named™ know: he saw it, and it made him shake his head with an accompanying clucking sound. Figure it out. It's not like there is any question in any minds except those of the hardcore Meierites. No one else <i>cares</i> about this nonsense. I have no issue with Meier writing about and teaching whatever form of philosophy he wants, but there's no reason to believe that there's anything paranormal about any of it.

I, Jeff Ritzmann and others have already challenged FIGU and Meier to provide the community with a SINGLE original piece of film for analysis, and ware still awaiting a response. Until this happens, I consider this entire situation a bad joke, represented stateside by a shrill, psychotic, opportunistic, sad liar. Until Billy Meier is willing to speak for himself and offer an independent, third party, legitimate, credible investigation team original negatives and/or metal samples, there's nothing to talk - or type - about.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

We're on page 41? Gene and David, isn't it about time this thread was locked down?

Remember how tedious it was to extract anything useful from the ATS Serpo thread? Well, this thread is heading the same way. There is some useful discussion in the first 10 pages or so, but the rest just boils down to personal attacks and rebuttals - surely a strong sign that the discussion is over?

The BM zealots remind me very much of the Gene Ray zealots who vigourously defend his claims about his 'timecube' theory (Go visit Cubic Awareness Online) but are unwilling (or unable) to demonstrate even the simplest application of his theory - for a taste of what I mean have a look at this thread: -1 X -1 = 1 is Evil and Stupid. Pay particular attention to the moderator calling himself "cubehead" - he comes across as being very intelligent and some of his responses to those requesting 'proof' turn 'avoiding the question' into an art form. Is he deluded or does he get some kind of kick from perpetuating these sort of 'discussions'?

I think you should draw a line under the BM debate by summarizing this thread and David's photo analysis in a short article for easy reference and then leave the 'pro' BM trolls to bait their 'enemies' in someone else's forums.
 
He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

ZTGR said:
Like I said...I'm a pro Meier guy and a devil's advocate and criticism has got to be more specific...and correct...to convince me it's all a hoax.
Then take a look at the 'self criticism' of the case, because Meier himself said some things weren't in order. Those 1000 pictures he took, the majority is gone and hundreds of photographs are missing. Movies, ditto. Here's a weird fact for you ZTGR, according to the case not one single original negative remains... Isn't that weird? A negative could provide conclusive proof certainly with todays technology but such a thing isn't fortcoming and Horn is unwilling to go into the matter.
During the Asket&Nera exposure Meier said in one of his publications, and it's on record, that many if not all of his photographs were apparently manipulated by the MIB. If you take his word for it then there are no authentic photographs by their own admission and any testing that was done around that time with a positive verdict is seemingly irrelevant. The case didn't have authentic photographs, right? So why does Horn go on saying the photographs are irrefutable evidence when Meier himself claims they're not authentic? Have a look at how many excuses are woven into the case, it's like a house held together with tape.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top