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Martial Wha....?

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CapnG

CapnG

Devil's Advocate
Apparently the Army Times has reported that starting in October, military units will be made available for use within the US in a capacity to put down "civil unrest". I've also read (but not confirmed) that the US and Canada have signed joint operations plans as part of Northcom to offer military aid to each other should the need arise.

Anybody else got any info on this? On the face of it, it seems a little wonky, I mean I know Canada's army is already tapped out with the Afghanistan mission and America's armed forces are still thoroughly busy with both Iraq and Afghanistan.

The whole thing sounds a bit Alex Jones-y to me but if true it would be eerily prescient to something really, really nasty coming down the pipe.
 
CapnG said:
Apparently the Army Times has reported that starting in October, military units will be made available for use within the US in a capacity to put down "civil unrest".
Click to expand...

Of course, we need to see the article for context.

My gut response is that military units have long been available for use within the U.S. for any purpose necessary. In other words, this would be nothing new. (Federal requirements for National Guard trump state-level requirements.)

CapnG said:
I've also read (but not confirmed) that the US and Canada have signed joint operations plans as part of Northcom to offer military aid to each other should the need arise.
Click to expand...

NATO? I'm sure the U.S. and Canada already have gobs of joint ops plans.

CapnG said:
...The whole thing sounds a bit Alex Jones-y to me but if true it would be eerily prescient to something really, really nasty coming down the pipe.
Click to expand...

Let's not panic yet. I guess the first thing to do is find the source.
 
CapnG said:
Apparently the Army Times has reported that starting in October, military units will be made available for use within the US in a capacity to put down "civil unrest". I've also read (but not confirmed) that the US and Canada have signed joint operations plans as part of Northcom to offer military aid to each other should the need arise.

Anybody else got any info on this? On the face of it, it seems a little wonky, I mean I know Canada's army is already tapped out with the Afghanistan mission and America's armed forces are still thoroughly busy with both Iraq and Afghanistan.

The whole thing sounds a bit Alex Jones-y to me but if true it would be eerily prescient to something really, really nasty coming down the pipe.
Click to expand...


It is called long term planning .It probably based on a Nato proposal.Russia could be seen by both nations to be a threat in the future.However it doesnt mean it will come into force anytime soon. It is just there should a situation arise.
 
Here's the article:

Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 - Army News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports - Army Times

There's a long thread on MSNBC.com's message board about it that's a pretty good back and forth between "you have nothing to fear" and "that's what Nazi Germany said" perspectives.

Object moved

Gee, between this and McCain wanting to postpone his campaign, looks like my prediction that Bush will be our last president might just come true. Man, why can't I predict good things?
 
Someone on MSNBC posted this for perspective:

Since 9/11, our Constitutional rights have been systematically dismantled:

  1. USA Patriot Act - A 342 page document presented to Congress one day before voting on it that allows the government access to your bank and email accounts, as well as your medical and phone records with no court order. They can also search your home anytime without a warrant.
  2. USA Patriot Act II - This one allows secret government arrests, the legal authority to seize your American citizenship, and the extraction of your DNA if you are deemed a potential terrorist.
  3. Military Commissions Act of 2006 - Ends habeas corpus, the right to an attorney, and the right to court review of one's detention and arrest. Without this most basic right, all other rights are gone too since anyone can be detained indefinitely. Now anyone may be arrested and incarcerated and nobody would know.
  4. NSPD 51 - A directive signed by George W. Bush on May 9, 2007, that allows the President to declare martial law, effectively transforming the U.S. into a dictatorship with no checks and balances from the Legislative or Judicial Branches. Parts of this directive are considered classified and members of Congress have been denied the right to review it.
  5. Protect America Act of 2007 - Allows unprecedented domestic wiretapping and surveillance activities with a reduction in FISA court oversight. Probable cause is not needed.
  6. John Warner Defense Authorization Act - Signed by George W. Bush on October 17, 2007, this act allows the President to declare a public emergency and station troops anywhere in America without the consent of the governor or local authorities to "suppress public disorder."
  7. Homegrown Terrorism and Radicalization Act - Passed overwhelmingly by Congress on October 23, 2007, is now awaiting a Senate vote. This act will beget a new crackdown on dissent and the Constitutional rights of American citizens. The definitions of "terrorism" and "extremism" are so vague that they could be used to generalize against any group that is working against the policies of the Administration. In this bill, "violent radicalization" criminalizes thought and ideology while "homegrown terrorism" is defined as "the planed use of force to coerce the government." The term, "force" could encompass political activities such as protests, marches, or any other form of non-violent resistance.
So when you add in:

It starts to get a little scary.
 
And I quote from the article cited above:

"Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks."

After the recent spate of hurricanes, floods and forest fires it does not seem like a terrible idea, does it?

Oh wait, I forgot: We make the hurricanes, don't we?
 
Wow, I guess I should have checked that before I hit submit reply. It shold read "and information" and not that. Sorry. :eek:
 
fitzbew88 said:
Federal requirements for National Guard trump state-level requirements.
Click to expand...

That's the thing though, these would be US Army units, not National Guard (aside- odd name for a state-based organization). Doesn't that violate your Posse comentatus law? To say nothing of American troops on Canadian soil and vice versa.

I'm all for joint effort in areas like counter-terrorism and disaster relief but the open-endedness of an agreement like this is a little bit of an eyebrow raiser...
 
So it looks as if we're headed for hardcore tyranny. Anyone planning a vacation?

Why don't we all of us paracasters collectively move to the Queen Elizabeth Islands -- far away from civilization. If we pool our resources, maybe we can set up a survival community and then come back after the smoke clears and the rubble has been swept away. Whaddya say?

I'm thinking practically, you know. What are we going to do? Starve? Get killed by the military? Drafted?
 
CapnG said:
That's the thing though, these would be US Army units, not National Guard (aside- odd name for a state-based organization).
Click to expand...

I think I see what you're saying, but for all practical purposes National Guard units are US Army Units. The only difference is whether they are acting under Federal authority (Iraq) or State authority (Katrina, other hurricanes). In a de facto sense, they're simply reserve units for the full-time army.

CapnG said:
Doesn't that violate your Posse comentatus law? To say nothing of American troops on Canadian soil and vice versa.
Click to expand...

Wow, I tried reading up on this so I could respond intelligently (which is hard enough as it is :D ) and found it much more complicated than I expected. The laws have been amended and repealed a lot, even this year. But it seems like the gist of the matter is that the President has always been able to use federal troops at least under these circumstances:

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it

(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.
Click to expand...

The roots of this law apparently go back to 1807.

As I said earlier, the laws are complicated. Folks should research this themselves if they have an interest in it. President Bush has basically said he will do whatever he has to do to protect the country in a crisis, Insurrection Act and Posse Comitatus be damned. (My words.)

There are also some exclusions, apparently. For example just a few years ago I read an article about the DOE using U.S. Army Special Operations units on the front lines to resist domestic nuclear terrorism.

I'm happy to have Canadian troops on U.S. soil and vice versa, as long as we are supporting each other. (NORAD)

CapnG said:
I'm all for joint effort in areas like counter-terrorism and disaster relief but the open-endedness of an agreement like this is a little bit of an eyebrow raiser...
Click to expand...

I see Jeremy found a link to it, but I still haven't read it yet. (My hair's been on fire at work the last few days.)
 
"The Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB) is reporting in the Kremlin over the past several days that the Bank of England has received from the United States Federal Reserve Bank a notice that President Bush is preparing to declare an Economic Emergency during the week of October 5th and will further announce that the American Presidential election due to be held on November 4th will be indefinitely suspended.

These reports state that the Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King, had expressed his shock and outrage to his American counterparts at the US Federal Reserve after the catastrophic collapse of one of the largest financial banks in the World, Lehman Brothers, and which caused both the Bank of England and the European Central Bank to rush $42 billion into the European economy yesterday to keep it from collapsing, and their own banks from running out of money, necessitating the response from the US Central Bank leader Ben S. Bernanke."

Now the question is... Do you trust KGB?
Guess we'll wait and see...
 
ddd999 said:
"The Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB) is reporting in the Kremlin over the past several days that the Bank of England has received from the United States Federal Reserve Bank a notice that President Bush is preparing to declare an Economic Emergency during the week of October 5th and will further announce that the American Presidential election due to be held on November 4th will be indefinitely suspended.

These reports state that the Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King, had expressed his shock and outrage to his American counterparts at the US Federal Reserve after the catastrophic collapse of one of the largest financial banks in the World, Lehman Brothers, and which caused both the Bank of England and the European Central Bank to rush $42 billion into the European economy yesterday to keep it from collapsing, and their own banks from running out of money, necessitating the response from the US Central Bank leader Ben S. Bernanke."

Now the question is... Do you trust KGB?
Guess we'll wait and see...
Click to expand...

Please cite a reference for this information.

dB
 
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