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March 19, 2017 — Dr. Robert Davis and Dr. Maree Batchelor


Funny how different we veiw things... I thought Gene was abrasive towards both guests. At times i wonder how people agree to do interviews on the show when guests are being talked to in such a way. i would lose my cool & hang up if people talked to me in the same ways.
It was on the edge sometimes, but @Gene Steinberg wasn't IMO rude or insulting. Equally as important, neither was he compromising. It takes a pro to walk that line and pull it off successfully. The guests to their credit also seemed to respond to Gene's questions as honestly as they could without losing their cool, and in IMO that added to their credibility. This level of interviewing is rare. It's the real thing. It wasn't a bunch of safe padded answers to a bunch of softball questions.
 
Wow- what a very tedious and frustrating episode. I didn't know I was listening to the Debunkercast. Had high hopes for Dr. Davis being on again, but he wouldn't answer Gene's questions directly (i..e. Dr. Edgar Mitchell). FREE is interesting, but still relying on too much personal testimony and anecdotal accounts to sound credible. Then when you get to Dr. Batchelor, I thought I was listening to a badly trained hypnotist. Whenever I hear the buzzwords multi-dimensional and higher level of consciousness mentioned together, I immediately think sham- heard it too much on another unnamed show. I respect Gene for constantly asking hard-hitting questions to get any actual proof ( yeah, why no camera or video of these sessions?), but nevertheless, she continued to be very vague with her statements.

As a trained Dr I got the distinct impression she struggled for words to explain what actually transpires. Some of what she says people experience sounded uncannily like what some report after having hands laid on them at a revival. Indeed this very thing happened to me and I understand that so-called 'peak' experiences can escape definition. My angle is 'faith seeking understanding'; a view that says that one believes yet one also seeks provability. Scientific investigation of these matters is finding answers elusive, yet people are having real experiences - often not totally voluntary or inviting of the experience.

Chief among the inability of science to find answers is in our lack of technology. We don't have instrumentation available that is able to detect, explore and collect data on extra-dimensions or parallel worlds - even though String Theory and Relativity permit the existence of these extensions to our own reality. Or perhaps it does exist in some lab in a dark corner of the Break-Away Civilization never to come out.

Until such technology exists even medically-trained Dr Batchelor will have only a limited lexicon to explain what is perceived.
 
I am not defending Gene. I am not a broadcaster. I understand your point. After listening to that woman, I guess I just didn't care much what happened to her on the show. So much New Age gobbly gook, so little time.

I thought Gene was more rude to Mr. Davis. But none of this is important to me. A lady who makes $125 per hour giving people relaxation exercises is probably not crying into her pillow right now.

She would be making a ton more money if she had of stuck with medicine.
 
Not exactly. If she works 40-hour weeks at $125 an hour US ($165 AUD is her posted rate), she'd make $260,000 US a year. That's certainly above the average pay for a daily doctor in Australia, which is evidently $160,000 AUD a year, or $121,000 US.

Hmmm...

And if she works just four hours a day five days a week she matches the physician's income.

Not a bad gig.
 
Not exactly. If she works 40-hour weeks at $125 an hour US ($165 AUD is her posted rate), she'd make $260,000 US a year. That's certainly above the average pay for a daily doctor in Australia, which is evidently $160,000 AUD a year, or $121,000 US.

Hmmm...

And if she works just four hours a day five days a week she matches the physician's income.

Not a bad gig.

It would be a very good gig if she was actually getting it. And people might wonder if she also does palm reading or astrology on a fee for service basis. It doesn't look good. If she was still working as a medical doctor Dr Batchelor would be able to test patients to verify changes in their physiology as a result of her sessions. So she could treat them in both orthodox and unorthodox ways. Medical authorities would never allow it since woo woo medicine is not evidenced-based best practice.

Dr Batchelor did not explain herself really well. You were not alone Gene in becoming frustrated with answers that didn't add clarity. It is a shame because I think there is some reality to the experience. I was hopeful that a medical doctor would have been able to go that next step further and tell us that the phenomenon is real because medical tests after the sessions prove it.

Several years ago I received prayer to receive the Holy Spririt (called Baptism of the Holy Spirit). I was not expecting it and was not sure anything would happen. Yet it did and I was both terrified and filled with joy. I didn't have words for my experience, though some physical sensations seem to parallel what Dr Batchelor said her patients experienced. That had me thinking: are these things all linked?

I hope science can soon provide us real answers to these 'edge of reality' questions.
 
I don't doubt that some very screwy things do happen from time to time. I just think most of the explanations are examples of people grappling with the unknown without any idea what's really going on. So today it's "quantum physics," and yesterday it was god and his angels, or something else.
 
I don't doubt that some very screwy things do happen from time to time. I just think most of the explanations are examples of people grappling with the unknown without any idea what's really going on. So today it's "quantum physics," and yesterday it was god and his angels, or something else.

You're absolutely right Gene. The world is a stranger place than many would willingly admit. I am glad you grill the guests that come on the show. You and Chris do a fabulous job. I have been listening since 2008. Absolutely love the Paracast.
 
I don't doubt that some very screwy things do happen from time to time. I just think most of the explanations are examples of people grappling with the unknown without any idea what's really going on. So today it's "quantum physics," and yesterday it was god and his angels, or something else.
When metaphysical, paranormal and New Age people use quantum physics to legitimize their outlook, I roll my eyes. I cannot remember who wrote this, but a quantum physicist responded to this tactic with disdain, saying that such people are basing their outlooks on shaky ground. Why? Because quantum physics is a moving target, a science that is evolving over time. So the aspect of quantum physics that such people cling to for validation may become superseded in time.
 
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I've enjoyed @Erica Lukes' show more than once: Erica Lukes, UFO Classified Radio Show Host KCOR. She's less aggressive but still enjoyable. McConnell's X-Zone is good sometimes: Home | The 'X' Zone Radio & TV Show Podcast Centre. There are just so many, and the guests tend to make the rounds anyway, so I don't listen to much else except C2C because they carry it here on the local radio station at night.
I have not been a fan, she rubbed me the wrong way with her female victimization card right from the start. She could be a lovely person for all I know, I am just basing this on what I have heard so far. But actually, and I say this having worked with a great many people, she came across to me as a bit condescending and more than little passive aggressive, especially towards Chase, who I thought built her arguments around merit rather than divisive identity politics. This is often softened by giving a compliment, and trying to take the wind out of someone's sails first. It's subtle, but effective.

She just gives me a very insincere vibe which some can pick up as being merely "professional", but this seemed the kind of vibe you get from someone who seems overtly polite if you will, to the point of seeming insincere. Kind of like the teacher's pet who is in the class being an ideal well behaved student while snickering and sneering/winking at others from one side of her face. Like the kid who likes to tattle on other kids while pretending to be an angel, or trying to show them up etc. She just gave me that kind of vibe. I realize I may be in the minority there, and that's ok. It's gene's show, he can have her on if he likes :).
 
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First, I want to applaud your attempt with this episode to broaden the guest pool. I had earlier suggested someone from Exopolitics which would be much more focused on ufology than the good Dr. Bachelor. But I am very happy you included her because it illustrates what serious researchers are up against.

I would like to share some experiences that relate to this lady's shtick.

About 15 years ago, I was having a lot of physical trouble with Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS). I had just moved to a new city in a different part of the USA (from San Francisco to Phoenix). I think it all just caught up with me and manifested in the digestive tract. Anyway, after pursuing all the mainstream medical avenues to no effect, I found a website forum of other IBS sufferers who recommended a self-hypnosis CD series.

I ordered it. The CD collection had a lot of different self-hypnosis techniques that I went through according to the instructions. Today when I heard Dr. Bachelor's "therapy" with Gene, I thought "OMG! That is very much like the self-hypnosis CDs for IBS". Most of the CD exercises had the intention of relaxing the listener. The listener was encouraged to relax each muscle group.

Well, guess what. A standard side-effect of relaxing each muscle group was increased blood circulation and warmth. This manifested as tingling through out the body. Now, the CD series did not contain any hocus pokus language attributing the impacts to aliens, ascended masters or the healing power of Jesus. It quite honestly described the side effects as a normal reaction to intense relaxation of the body when going through a directed self-hypnosis.

By the way, the CDs did "cure" my IBS, but bear in mind that IBS often is associated with stress and involuntary spasms which are brought under control (creating a new physical habit) via repeating the CD relaxation techniques. The voice on the CD had no special psychic ability, no ability to shapeshift, and no invisible helpers.

I think Dr. B. is using obvious relaxation techniques that will certainly make many people feel better for the short term! This does not equate to healing. If someone wishes to relax, they do not need to pay anyone hundreds of dollars to do so. They can probably find some excellent relaxation CDs on Amazon or another online site.

Now, with your indulgence, I would like to speak a bit about FREE, since I WAS A PARTICIPANT.

I first heard about the FREE website and study from one of the many internet podcasts where a FREE representative was encouraging people to fill out the questionnaire. I have a bizarre history of possible "alien" encounters and other over-the-top paranormal experiences. See below.

Anonymous Woo Woo Files.pdf

I eventually sent this to the the FREE representative from the podcast. I would mention his name but I forgot. My intent was "OK. So how does all this litany of weirdness stack up against your questionnaire base?"

He called me and encouraged me to do the 4 or 5 phases of the questionnaire, each becoming more complex until you participated in a phone or skype interview. I had to agree to each subsequent phase. I stopped before the live interview phase.

I have no scandal to report. I found the questionnaires (in the different phases) complex and worth doing. Some of the questions were repetitive, perhaps to see if I would contradict myself. So I got tired of answering the same question that was worded in different ways.

What caused me to stop before the live interview was that I had come late to the party. Results were already being shared on the website. Like Gene, I was quite perplexed that something like 80% or more of the participants LIKED their so-called alien experiences.

I loathed mine. I was terrified during them. There were no blonde beauties teaching me the golden rule and telling me about multiple dimensions, the origins of Earth life, and cosmic secrets. My encounters were with little white creatures with the huge almond eyes back in the late 50's and 60's when I was a kid. These experiences were traumatizing. In teen years, sperm was taken. There was no friendly discussion of metaphysics and who was who in outer space. It was WHAM, BAM, NO THANK YOU, MAN. Then on to the next victim.

Anyway, all paranormal events have ceased for me as of the late 90's, thank god. But the results being reported by FREE seemed so distorted and contrary to everything I knew and experienced that I became actually angry. I told them that this organization seemed like a New Age Space Brothers front and I no longer wanted to be part of it. In other words, I did NOT feel that I had found a "home" online for my experiences. So I left.

Today's interview with Mr. Davis did nothing to dissuade me of that viewpoint. I consider some of the people on their Board, such as Mary Rodwell, to be pretty fuffy and more in the born-believer category. The fact that Mr. Davis defended Doctor Bachelor, saying that he felt all tingly during her session with Gene, caused me to groan out loud and mumble "How typical of that organization".

I applaud the goals of the FREE organization, but do not trust their results. The most basic problem is simply that to participate, YOU nominate yourself! So the sample is distorted. Do people with positive "My Space Family Loves Me' beliefs want to share this more often than people like me who shun any further contact with the merciless little grey creatures?

Also, where was the FREE questionnaire advertised? Were the podcasts, for example, more aligned with the Exopolitics view of aliens being very similar to the Star Trek modality of human-like entities who wish us to join their Confederation of Light? I confess I at times listen to such podcasts because they can be quite entertaining even to the point of laughter. I cannot remember the podcast where I heard the promotion of the FREE questionnaire. It could have been on an Exopolitics podcast or even a Stephen Greer podcast. (Aliens are wonderful - all negative abductions are done by nasty humans in the military).

Well, that is all. To anyone who actually looks at my personal file of experiences, I beg you to treat what I wrote with RESPECT. It is all true, although I realize it is almost impossible for anyone else to believe.

UPDATE: After Chris Johnson posted, I realized that the person at FREE that I conversed with was Rey Hernandez.


So I concur that this lady seemed like your typical new ager using relaxation techniques to make people feel better. Someone who likely simply went through a common experience when they experience huge loss and went and "found religion" if you like, which is essentially what this was, and she turned it into a profitable business it seems, indulging people's strong desire to believe, even when they say they don't. Placebo effect is powerful when combined with basic relaxation techniques.

Your example is perfect, and I was prompted to pipe in my 2 cents because I actually have been trying to cure my mild near nearsightedness and astigmatism. naturally with relaxation and exercises (along with dietary choices that benefit the eyes). I have had moderate success, but not enough, not by a long shot, to ditch the glasses. The resource I used actually had a fair amount of very objective, if not scientific ideas behind it's content, which is more than I can say for the woman on this show.

Relaxation is key, as a huge part of astigmatism and nearsightedness is muscle strain that is developed over time. If you simply close your eyes, and put something warm over them or you rub your hands and sort of "cup your eyes" for a few minutes the darkness and heat from your hands helps to improve blood flow and vision can indeed improve for a moments. I suspect this is the effect her clients are experiencing, as I have myself. Brief flashes of sometimes even dramatically improved vision, before reverting to normal vision again.

Also, as an aside, most folks who have an ability to pick up on energy or other seemingly odd things, tend not to advertise it much. It's kind of similar to the sentiment that those with nice dating or sex lives, tend not to talk about it, they don't need to. Or guys who talk about how big their genitals are, probably not in fact, having nothing much to show off to begin with. It's hot air.
 
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Interesting interpretation. I have an inherent dislike for unfairness, so I like to give people who claim to have been treated unfairly some benefit of the doubt; at least enough to hear them out. Also, I've never had much cooperation from MUFON and have seen other people besides Erica with good ideas in MUFON get stifled because of internal politics. However I also appreciate what you're saying to some extent and have no idea what she's really like once one gets to know her.

What I can say is that because of @Erica Lukes' very public comments on wanting to make ufology better for everyone and in particular the new generation, and her pro-active if not somewhat idealistic attitude, I have reached out to her more than once in an attempt to initiate some networking. As you may already know, the group I'm with ( USI ) has as it's only main membership criteria to have "A Genuine And Constructive Interest in Ufology". Curiously I haven't received any response from Erica at all ( ever ).

I don't know what the reason is. In the spirit granting benefit of the doubt ( as mentioned above ) I'm assuming a communication glitch or some other reasonable explanation. Until I have that figured out, I can't say I have any personal experience regarding her sincerity off the air. @Gene Steinberg seems to have a favorable opinion of her, and he's had some direct contact, so that says something. Maybe he can suggest something to break through whatever the barrier is there.
Just to clarify, Smoking man was not talking about Erica. He was referring to the guest on the show Dr. Bachelor who claimed to have psychic healing powers.
 
So I concur that this lady seemed like your typical new ager using relaxation techniques to make people feel better. Someone who likely simply went through a common experience when they experience huge loss and went and "found religion" if you like, which is essentially what this was, and she turned it into a profitable business it seems, indulging people's strong desire to believe, even when they say they don't. Placebo effect is powerful when combined with basic relaxation techniques.

Your example is perfect, and I was prompted to pipe in my 2 cents because I actually have been trying to cure my mild near nearsightedness and astigmatism. naturally with relaxation and exercises (along with dietary choices that benefit the eyes). I have had moderate success, but not enough, not by a long shot, to ditch the glasses. The resource I used actually had a fair amount of very objective, if not scientific ideas behind it's content, which is more than I can say for the woman on this show.

Relaxation is key, as a huge part of astigmatism and nearsightedness is muscle strain that is developed over time. If you simply close your eyes, and put something warm over them or you rub your hands and sort of "cup your eyes" for a few minutes the darkness and heat from your hands helps to improve blood flow and vision can indeed improve for a moments. I suspect this is the effect her clients are experiencing, as I have myself. Brief flashes of sometimes even dramatically improved vision, before reverting to normal vision again.

Also, as an aside, most folks who have an ability to pick up on energy or other seemingly odd things, tend not to advertise it much. It's kind of similar to the sentiment that those with nice dating or sex lives, tend not to talk about it, they don't need to. Or guys who talk about how big their genitals are, probably not in fact, having nothing much to show off to begin with. It's hot air.
Sadly, the placebo effect is usually short term. Back in 2010, I was having mood swings that no doctor could explain. In desperation, I went to a naturopath. She was extremely loving and warm (once you paid her). She had a "magic" blanket that she says was FCC approved. It was an electric blanket that was lined with amethyst stones and other crystals.

Wouldn't you know! After laying on this cozy warm blanket, I felt calm and peaceful.

But by the time I got home from an hour of driving through Los Angeles, the anxiety returned.

I actually had "believer" friends who claimed that it was my fault and that I was sabatoging her hard work to heal me. This hurt the most! Imagine telling a cancer patient undergoing chemo that they just weren't trying hard enough, as they rushed to the toilet to throw up!

I realized it was a short term Placebo effect in action where I felt totally removed from my stress at her lovely home filled with plants and soothing Celtic harp music and that magical blanket.

How did I get healed? I found an excellent psychiatrist (mainstream specialist) who put me temporarily on anxiety medication while we had 3 years of psycho analysis that changed my life.
 
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