Mad Rush for Lunar Real Estate Ahead

[Ezechiel]

Could legal 'loophole' lead to land claims on other worlds?

For 45 years, an international treaty has barred countries from laying claim to the moon and other celestial bodies — but some policy analysts say private ventures might be able to stake their claims, and they want Congress to create a legal framework that takes advantage of the loophole.

I can imagine Richard Branson jumping on this. Just pick an ice deposit, build a straw and voila:
The first Virgin Galactic settlement on the moon !

NASA - NASA Radar Finds Ice Deposits at Moon's North Pole

International treaty barring countries from laying claims ?! That kind of explains why we ain't there yet lol.

 

[dad2059]

The old treaties were Cold War relics designed to prevent the USSR and China from putting nuclear armed military bases on the Moon. Later it found to be cheaper to put such weaponry in GEO (Geosynch Orbit).
However a recent article written by Rand Simberg discusses a way to bypass these outdated pieces of paper in order private industries can put equipment on the Moon. http://cei.org/sites/default/files/Rand%20Simberg%20-%20Homesteading%20the%20Final%20Frontier.pdf

 

[Ezechiel]

The old treaties were Cold War relics designed to prevent the USSR and China from putting nuclear armed military bases on the Moon. Later it found to be cheaper to put such weaponry in GEO (Geosynch Orbit).
However a recent article written by Rand Simberg discusses a way to bypass these outdated pieces of paper in order private industries can put equipment on the Moon. http://cei.org/sites/default/files/Rand%20Simberg%20-%20Homesteading%20the%20Final%20Frontier.pdf

The fear of nukes was so great that a treaty involving the moon (7 days of flight time using fossil fuels) was needed Reveals how out of touch politicians of the times were in relation to technology.

Any gap between the use of applied science and the full understanding of its power by politicians is potentially damaging. This is a good example.

 

[Blabyboy]

Couple of problems here.
1. You can do all you like in Congress, but it won't count for jack in the other sovereign nations of the world, just as the US patents office is ignored frequently by the Chinese, Indians et al;
2. Private corporations can try and claim real estate, but it'll be the same as those crappy Lunar real estate certificates you can buy off of the internets - it counts for zilch unless you're actually there putting bricks in the soil.

So, I'm all for private corps getting there because it'll kick start space exploration. As well as ice and therefore water to drink and create air, there are supposed to large deposits of helium3 as well as large iron-related deposits, so that's you're heating and construction sorted.

Reality suggests that if a country did go back to the moon and built a base, there ain't really much to stop them unless you build a rocket too and happen to land in the same area.... 2001 hints at this, each country will take certain spots and co-exist as there are plenty of resources to extract.

bb

 

[mike]

I hope we see Moonbase Alpha much as we did in the TV series Space1999.
An international venture
Staffed by people from all over the globe, and run by a world space commission.

It would be nice to see the geopolitical segregation get left behind as we venture out to the stars, as a whole species, not seperate countrys.

 

[Blabyboy]

Mike, I agree that would be nice. However, I think until a significant number of people have spent time off this world, then then mindset you allude to is not going to be forthcoming. It'll be the narrow-minded political thinking we currently have.

There might be a few collaborations due to the expense - Europe perhaps. But most would be country based due to the enormous cost atm.

bb

 

[Goggs Mackay]

haha mike - chucking in a moonbase alpha ref. the show had a thumping great theme tune too - and the female alien character, the shapeshifter - she used to get me to hind behind the couch, a bit like Davros did back in the day!

 

[Ezechiel]

I hope we see Moonbase Alpha much as we did in the TV series Space1999.
An international venture
Staffed by people from all over the globe, and run by a world space commission.

It would be nice to see the geopolitical segregation get left behind as we venture out to the stars, as a whole species, not seperate countrys.

That would be awesome
The key to all this would be a way to preserve the human frame, muscle and bone structures under reduced gravity. Mars offers a closer gravity at 38% of earth so 100kg on earth would equal 38kg on mars. Long term operation in these conditions would severely weaken muscles, atrophy bones... etc.. and would render migrants unable to return to earth.

How do you fix this ? Now this is where you cross into interesting territory
Artificial gravity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linear acceleration would make sense for travel purposes.... using fusion propulsion engines which aren't available yet.
Linear acceleration, even at a low level, can provide sufficient g-force to provide useful benefits. Any spacecraft could, in theory, continuously accelerate in a straight line, forcing objects inside the spacecraft in the opposite direction of the direction of acceleration.

Strong magnetic fields (Diamagnetism) would also make sense for a base on Mars or the Moon. Once again the energetic requirements are huge... a fusion plant could do the job.

Fusion, fusion, fusion (artificial star) is a big pre-requisite for solar system exploration and exploitation. Hopefully I'll see it in my lifetime.

Way down the road...
Consciousness transfer into environment compatible clones ? (Avatar...) .... remember the claims that aliens found in crashed ships had semi-robotic behaviors...

 

[mike]

Consciousness transfer into environment compatible clones ? (Avatar...) .... remember the claims that aliens found in crashed ships had semi-robotic behaviors...

The greys themselves are alleged to have told ppl like streiber that their body is a container or vessel

 

[Ezechiel]

The greys themselves are alleged to have told ppl like streiber that their body is a container or vessel

Awesome concept... Just send containers on exploration crafts. When they get close enough to their destination, activate the clone with a synaptic copy of the host. Execute mission and send back the info at light speed

 

[mike]

Awesome concept... Just send containers on exploration crafts. When they get close enough to their destination, activate the clone with a synaptic copy of the host. Execute mission and send back the info at light speed

Or even better, upload the conciousness to an artificial platform, a "brainframe" computer.
When you get there clone the vessel from the local DNA, and then use them as biological waldo's

You dont have to worry about the biological material going off as you travel vast distances, and the local DNA is suited to the environment/gravity/solar radiation etc

 

[Ezechiel]

Or even better, upload the conciousness to an artificial platform, a "brainframe" computer.
When you get there clone the vessel from the local DNA, and then use them as biological waldo's

You dont have to worry about the biological material going off as you travel vast distances, and the local DNA is suited to the environment/gravity/solar radiation etc

Wild idea but would make sense for vast distances. The idea that a mechanical device (inorganic) could actually build a functional organic sentient being would definitely not sit well with current religious authorities lol. The day we acquire the capability of transferring consciousness from one platform to another we become immortal.

 

[mike]

Just when will this ultimate life-affirming feat be possible? In Kurzweil's estimation, we will be able to upload the human brain to a computer, capturing "a person's entire personality, memory, skills and history", by the end of the 2030s; humans and non-biological machines will then merge so effectively that the differences between them will no longer matter; and, after that, human intelligence, transformed for the better, will start to expand outward into the universe

By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain... - Science - News - The Independent

According to Ian Pearson, a British futurist, death will be a thing of the past by 2050.

Pearson is one of many futurists, cybernetic experts and artificial intelligence researchers whose thoughts are converging on the same basic idea: Why not upload everything that's in the brain—everything that makes a person who they are—into a computer and then download it again into a new body? Doing such a thing would make the individual theoretically immortal.

How to become immortal: Upload your mind - by Terrence Aym - Helium

I think its a reasonable leap to make that if we think we can do this...... ET may already have done it

 

[Ezechiel]

By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain... - Science - News - The Independent



How to become immortal: Upload your mind - by Terrence Aym - Helium

I think its a reasonable leap to make that if we think we can do this...... ET may already have done it

The Adam and eve story has hints pointing to something like this. Eve being produced from a rib...

 

[boomerang]

I would not be surprised if it turns out that something akin to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle applies to human consciousness. That is, we would not be able to completely record it without altering its essence in the process. But--this is pure speculation.

 

[Blabyboy]

The only really viable way is to be able to transmute to pure energy. It can't be destroyed.

Communicating with an avatar at light speed gradually breaks down over distance. Once you get past 299,792,458m you have a delay of over a second which could prove fatal for the avatar in a tricky situation.

'local' DNA is subject to mutation e.g. solar radiation (think of the radiation that might be spat out by other stars), so you may end up with a misformed entity which may/would not be suitable for the environment. It would also take many years to adapt to the local environment (gravity) - just look how long it has taken humans at present.

Brainframe is nice idea, but the potential for loss or corruption of data is still large and think of the storage. You'd only be taking a snapshot of the brain at that point in time, so you'd somehow need to 'diff' the snapshot to the current and update accordingly and that would need to be ongoing all the time to account for new pathways being created and old pathways dying. You'd want a real-time copy of the brain at the time for analysis in case the vessel was made an ex-vessel, no more, it has gone away, it is deceased.

bb

 

[Ezechiel]

I would not be surprised if it turns out that something akin to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle applies to human consciousness. That is, we would not be able to completely record it without altering its essence in the process. But--this is pure speculation.

A borg queen would then be a good example of the limits of machine integration into organic sentient beings. The essence fading with each new implant

 

[mike]

The only really viable way is to be able to transmute to pure energy. It can't be destroyed.

Communicating with an avatar at light speed gradually breaks down over distance. Once you get past 299,792,458m you have a delay of over a second which could prove fatal for the avatar in a tricky situation.

'local' DNA is subject to mutation e.g. solar radiation (think of the radiation that might be spat out by other stars), so you may end up with a misformed entity which may/would not be suitable for the environment. It would also take many years to adapt to the local environment (gravity) - just look how long it has taken humans at present.

Brainframe is nice idea, but the potential for loss or corruption of data is still large and think of the storage. You'd only be taking a snapshot of the brain at that point in time, so you'd somehow need to 'diff' the snapshot to the current and update accordingly and that would need to be ongoing all the time to account for new pathways being created and old pathways dying. You'd want a real-time copy of the brain at the time for analysis in case the vessel was made an ex-vessel, no more, it has gone away, it is deceased.

bb

While the abduction/ET narrative is not the best place to look for answers, there are a couple of aspects which ive read which "might" get around some of the limitations expressed.

One of the alleged autopsys claims the brain had implants, perhaps a wi fi type system ? transmitting back from the bionode to its brainframe partition, keeping "parity"
Our own computers do a parity check and disk striping
RAID - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for size, computer capacity is increasing at an exponential rate, and we must remember that all the data that makes up a human personality now...... sits inside a space the size of a small melon. Clearly its possible to "store" ones conciousness in a small space.
Its just a matter of reverse engineering and duplicating the existing setup

 

[boomerang]

A borg queen would then be a good example of the limits of machine integration into organic sentient beings. The essence fading with each new implant

Hmmm... I think I may have dated that chick back when.

 

[Blabyboy]

While the abduction/ET narrative is not the best place to look for answers, there are a couple of aspects which ive read which "might" get around some of the limitations expressed.

One of the alleged autopsys claims the brain had implants, perhaps a wi fi type system ? transmitting back from the bionode to its brainframe partition, keeping "parity"
Our own computers do a parity check and disk striping
RAID - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for size, computer capacity is increasing at an exponential rate, and we must remember that all the data that makes up a human personality now...... sits inside a space the size of a small melon. Clearly its possible to "store" ones conciousness in a small space.
Its just a matter of reverse engineering and duplicating the existing setup

Yeah, RAID might do it, although I'd be concerned about the lag from vessel to the time the data is actually written to disk - the same as I'd be concerned about light speed transmission mentioned earlier, and again, even though you have several disks to stripe the data across, you don't get the full capacity of the total storage of those disks - you get a percentage, so storage is still going to be a potential problem. I guess we'd have to accept that there would always be a bit of lag - the smaller the better.

I really disagree on your second point, no-one can clearly define consciousness so I don't think you can say you can store it. I would agree that you can store all factual information about the vessel's immediate environment at that time. If we took your definition, then the argument about computers and consciousness would be unwarranted and you'd be collecting a Nobel prize for philosophy.

I guess we could also store previous known experiences and suggested options to handle similar experiences, but think about what we're talking about here - sending something to somewhere that no-one has been to before and no-one knows what's going to be there, so a lot of those experiences are going to be new and it's how it handles those experiences which will determine its longevity.

bb