Looking for doped-up ufologists

[Cosmos007]

Hey @Cosmos007 I've heard a lot about Hancock but have yet to read him. What substances is he most familiar with? Ayahuasca? Can you give me a micro-book-report on Supernatural? It seems like I heard that he's looking into the link between psychedelics and UFOs, is that right?

Everything is connected.

Hello Zebra. Well, not exactly. Hancock was exploring the concept of ancient masters of wisdom being encountered by ancient peoples through the use of hallucinogens and thus influencing the development of the human mind.

He cites the painted caves of prehistoric France, Spain and Italy, as well as, rock shelters in the mountains of South Africa that depict the art of "supernaturals" that are the same as those encountered by those 'tripping out' on their choice of psychedelic.

Animal human hybrids are an example of the beings encountered. Hancock in his search for truth experienced these entities while under the influence of Ayahuasca in South America and scientists claim the same beings were encountered through the use of mescaline and have now begun to consider the possibility that these hallucinations may be the perceptions of other "dimensions".

The synopsis I just gave doesn't do justice to the book as a whole, so I would recommend it highly as part of your studies. A great work, by a great author.

Have a great day and may peace be with you always.


Everything is connected...

 

[Burnt State]

One can always start from the assumption that the UFO is a psychic projection (not to be confused with a fantasy or hallucination) created and animated by some deep and mysterious process within the human psyche. Or--one can postulate the UFO descending upon "us" as advanced beings or technology who proceed to play our brains like a violin. This might be some variant of the ET or Alternate Universe hypothesis. Neither theory, I think, can be proved or disproved, and I would be leery of anyone claiming tidy answers.

There's nothing tidy about it at all and as so much of our own individuality, coloured by culture and personal history, is directly involved in "seeing" it makes witness reports difficult to use in tandem with each other to try to establish anything much at all about the point of origin or even defining features of the original stimulus. Only cases with actual concrete evidence, be it trace evidence or confirmed multiple radar points and witnesses, allow us to explore a point of origin. In most cases of an individual sighting, or even with a handful or two witnesses, we can not discount the idea of the brain being played out by an external agent, either consciously or unconsciously. In the vast bulk of UFO sightings this is the case and perhaps we would do better by studying the witness themselves to learn more about them to see what commonalities arise. More fine tuned surveys that are better detailed and targeted than Project Core would go along way to help aid in this process. Some people may be quite prone to psychic projections.

The hierarchical view: That of super beings toying with or utilizing humanity for unknown purposes abides best with traditional and anthropocentric thinking. But it falls short when seeking sufficient reason or motivation for the magnitude and personal nature of the phenomenon. The phenomenon is also seemingly in complete control of time and space, not only during but possibly retroactively after encounters. It feels like something very non-linear is going on here.

Agreed on all fronts. A better UFO thesis would be to pursue the failings and weaknesses of the ETH to its fullest and explore what shakes free from all of that. Is there an actual intentionality to masquerade as visiting aliens from afar looking for trinkets, soil samples and a bit of DNA from the locals or is this our narrative that has been inserted into the experience because that's just what makes the most sense to the witness' brain during their event experience? There is too often a very personal element to reports (telepathy being reported, knowing of the witness name or different aspects of their lives etc.) and this may all well be entirely an internal process and have absolutely nothing at all to do with the external stimulus. It may simply be a function of the "doped up" journey that the individual is experiencing. Whenever a person has a very intense experience they immediately rush for comparisons of a personal nature: "it felt like...", "it seemed as if it was trying to tell me...", "it reminded me of..." and so it goes. These are all personal statements about the self and have nothing really to do with the stimulus. These are statements inspired by a stimulus and given shape by the blanket of personal knowledge and past experience. Non-linearity may merely be a product of how we use our own memories to interpret events and how these events are sustained across a person's life in memory. But as you said elsewhere, time and space and our limited knowledge of both is a definite feature of the UFO event experience.

The "UFO as emergent consciousness" way of viewing things is equally non-testable (at least so far) but comports somewhat better with the way in which close encounters are unavoidably personal and have a way of being an integral part of the experiencer's life. Even if very little is rationally explained. This could include, but not limit us to, the theory of psychic projection.

Since one of the few things we (think) we can say with confidence about the UFO is that it involves both elements of the physical world and the inner realm of pure thought, might it be operating at an interface of mind and matter in ways we only dimly comprehend?

The limb I'm climbing out on is getting thinner and thinner. Maybe best to stop here to reflect.

hmmmm....I've been sitting on that notion for a while now before responding to this post of yours and I think I would like to hear you explain this "emergence" in more detail. I've outlined some pieces around why the UFO becomes so personal in nature. We appear to be entangled with something that is very far removed from what we know about time and space. It is of an unknown realm. We need more data, with better categorizations, delineations and correlations if we are to going say anything specific about it with any degree of confidence.

 

[Cosmos007]

Hello Zebra. Well, not exactly. Hancock was exploring the concept of ancient masters of wisdom being encountered by ancient peoples through the use of hallucinogens and thus influencing the development of the human mind.

He cites the painted caves of prehistoric France, Spain and Italy, as well as, rock shelters in the mountains of South Africa that depict the art of "supernaturals" that are the same as those encountered by those 'tripping out' on their choice of psychedelic.

Animal human hybrids are an example of the beings encountered. Hancock in his search for truth experienced these entities while under the influence of Ayahuasca in South America and scientists claim the same beings were encountered through the use of mescaline and have now begun to consider the possibility that these hallucinations may be the perceptions of other "dimensions".

The synopsis I just gave doesn't do justice to the book as a whole, so I would recommend it highly as part of your studies. A great work, by a great author.

Have a great day and may peace be with you always.


Everything is connected...

I neglected to mention that Hancock, while under the influence of Ayahuasca,
had visions of an "alien" face which was gray in color, spaceships/flying saucers and even dragons.

If I may quote from the book..."then suddenly I find myself looking at very close range, into a shockingly "alien" face, gray in color, with a wide domed forehead and a narrow pointed chin - heart-shaped like the faces of the "light beings I'd encountered a few days earlier. But this creature doesn't look friendly. It's eyes are multi-segmented like those of a fly. Frankly, it's the sort of image you'd expect to see adorning some far-fetched X-Files expose', and since aliens and ETs have never been interests of mine, I' m really puzzled to experience such a hallucination." END QUOTE


Everything is connected...

 

[Han]

Chimpanzees use leafy cups to chug alcohol

 

[Waller]

Anybody know of any ufologists that advocate for the use of entheogens to communicate with entities or have contact? I am looking for people from the ufo field only. Thank you.

I am within the ET field if that counts.

 

[Waller]

I am a big McKenna fan, and although I don't agree w/ everything he has to say about ufos and any links to psychedelics, I do feel that these entheogens are a completely underutilized potential investigative tool. My first sighting experience (1979) occurred in New Paltz after a Gentle Giant conference while I was while under the influence of a heavy dose of 'shrooms. I was the first to notice the group of small pinpoint lights high in the sky. I doubt I would have noticed them unless I had been tripping. There were seven of us, three were tripping four were not. Everyone appeared to experience the exact same thing with no deviation. The experience occurred after the three of us had been zinged four about 4 or 5 hours, so we were on the wax, but still pretty zipped out. The rest of the experience I have mentioned a number of times on the show, but this is the first time I have mentioned the detail of some of us being under the influence...

Underutilized, demonized by those who have little to no understanding of their appropriate use and ridiculously criminalized without proper prosecution.

 

[Waller]

I'm curious, Zebra o.t.L., or anyone else who seeks through entheogens, do you have a working hypothesis outside of McKenna's hallucinatory pageantry regarding his connection to the alien other through the fungal teacher? I feel that there is something peculiar about altered experiences that connect us to disconnected ideas and I wonder if the nature of the connection is specific to our own relationships towards specific concepts/desires and how they may play out along the lines of entheogenic experiences?

I find that the connections become much clearer. The ayahuasca brew is called a plant teacher because it can heal physical, psychological and emotional blocks by exposing the belief systems that generate them. The vivid visions are the result of dimensional transportation that feedback insights into our true cosmological.

In the same way that many believers in a cult may share in certain psycho-spiritual events with similar emotions and critical ideas, is the entheogenic journeyer also shaped by certain desires for more than what is, for a longing to be connected, to mainline the rhythms of the universe and be one with that which is not known. The seeker seeks, I guess is what i'm saying. In some of my previous intense desires to seek I definitely got very disconnected and just wonder what is really at the heart of what is being sought. Is it about incompletion or about the need for purpose for example?

It's not more than what is, it is what is. The unknowing is the inability to (see my signature).

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

What you say reminds me of the anecdote that Richard Alpert tells of giving almost a full milligram of LSD to a Indian guru named Neem Karoli Baba. The yogi replied that it did nothing to him, that he had already attained that level of consciousnes. After word of this came out, many people tried to say the same, but no one believed them!

Alpert's niece and I visited Antelope Canyon recently... what a cool place to have a couple of loaded slices of pizza piled high w/ 'shrooms, olives, peppers & artichoke hearts!

 

[Last Laugh]

I can see the canyon walls breathing already...

 

[Robert Baird]

The story I heard about the visitor from India was that a Sai Baba ate a whole bag of hallucinogens and smiled. I was around that neck of the woods then. I dated one of Ram Dass/Alpert's adept subjects who did amazing things and was a State Educational Psychometrist.

Here is part of a thread Stalker requested addressing the elite effete who surround themselves in myths and boogeymen while pretending to be open or paranormally inclined.

What Campbell reveals is that what—or who—we see “out there” and what we encounter on our journeys through strange lands are in fact reflective of ourselves. “The passage of the mythological hero may be overground, incidentally; fundamentally it is inward—into depths where obscure resistances are overcome.”[8] {You will read me saying this is a symptom of paranoia and projection. What is alien to our sense of self is used against us as part of brainwashing us to be something less than Campbell's Hero. In time these projections become archetypes in the ether which casts it's pall across the ages and wells up as stories of Interventions from Gods and Extra-terrestrials. It can be seen in Kangaroo Courts of web sites where goons lurk awaiting new meat. It can be found in threads here where circle-jerking pseudo-intellects procure each other's effluent as validation of something they pretend is research into consciousness.}