Listener Round Table

[Jimi H.]

I'm frankly sick of the subject myself, but I really wish people would not speak so firmly about dead-serious scientific topics from a vantagepoint of belief, intuition, or confessed ignorance, like the notion that the greenhouse gas CO2 is not a greenhouse gas and doesn't 'really' work like one.

I'd also rather spend my time here with the 'other' stuff and I'm not going to fight someone who doesn't have a basic understanding of physics, it's pointless and boring.

 

[Jimi H.]

...



Chris brought up something I wish I'd said myself which is never mind what man might have done in 250 years, a single large event like a major volcanic eruption's output can literally dwarf decades of man's output into the atmosphere.

That's not to say what we do does not count, only that nature (as usual) can be the biggest badass in town, hands down every single time!

You must have missed the graph I just posted previously, from EPA:

There's very good data available from the Greenland ice-core samples.

 

[pixelsmith]

Global warming happens, global cooling happens, ice ages happen, climate change happens... humans emitting an essential life giving trace gas is not causing any of it. The "green movement" is about greening the pockets of people like al gore.

 

[pixelsmith]

I'm frankly sick of the subject myself, but I really wish people would not speak so firmly about dead-serious scientific topics from a vantagepoint of belief, intuition, or confessed ignorance, like the notion that the greenhouse gas CO2 is not a greenhouse gas and doesn't 'really' work like one.

I'd also rather spend my time here with the 'other' stuff and I'm not going to fight someone who doesn't have a basic understanding of physics, it's pointless and boring.

In your understanding of physics does heat migrate towards a cooler area or a warmer area?

 

[Jimi H.]

Ever considered why we have an atmosphere and it doesn't escape?

I think you need to read up on some basic Earth-science. Yes, we are not 'really' a closed system, but the energy we pump into our house (let's hope it doesn't turn into a greenhouse) doesn't just vanish into space.

There is no 'valve', the balance will have to restored here before we get a run-away greenhouse effect. That's why some people talk about pumping CO2 back into the ground!

 

[pixelsmith]

I think you need to read up on actual observed data, placement of surface stations where data is collected, deletion of select surface station data collection site, confessions of IPCC "scientists" they controlled peer review process and fudged data input into climate models, etc etc etc...

 

[Jimi H.]

Aha, it's a conspiracy!

 

[pixelsmith]

Aha, it's a conspiracy!

actually, it is.

 

[Muadib]

Aha, it's a conspiracy!

Don't bother trying to argue with Pixel about global warming, we had a 20 something page thread on this awhile back, you can find it if you search, and that's all his argument really boils down to, it's a conspiracy. In the thread he even conceded that AGW is real, but not to the degree that it's a danger. Now it's back to being an outright scam. His entire world view of NWO/Illuminati/Alex Jones-ian conspiracy nonsense hinges on global warming being part of the scam so it's not likely he's going to give that up. He'll just tell you to go read 4,000 pages of anti global warming propaganda garbage that the oil companies pay for and until then you're simply too ignorant to argue with him. As much as I like the guy, he's way off on this one.

 

[Frank Stalter]

Ever considered why we have an atmosphere and it doesn't escape?

I think you need to read up on some basic Earth-science. Yes, we are not 'really' a closed system, but the energy we pump into our house (let's hope it doesn't turn into a greenhouse) doesn't just vanish into space.

There is no 'valve', the balance will have to restored here before we get a run-away greenhouse effect. That's why some people talk about pumping CO2 back into the ground!

I do know we don't live on Venus and temperatures rose in the 90s but leveled off in the last decade. I read a lot about science, mostly astronomy, so I see conflicting theory and disagreement all the time. I see the same in climate science and I have seen a lot of fear mongering on the AGW side. Didn't have to dig deep to find this. It's a study, obviously not the only one, but AGW is not "a fact, like gravity" the way Al Gore has put it.

Global warming less extreme than feared? New estimates from a Norwegian project on climate calculations

 

[pixelsmith]

It saddens me that a couple intelligent guys like yourselves are unable to see the bullshit you are subscribing to. Muadib or anyone else here has yet to show that human emissions of CO2 are causing any sort of catastrophic global warming.

 

[pixelsmith]

And I will state again that I support alternate energy research, non subsidized energy projects, being mindful of our waste products and field run offs, etc etc.

CO2 is our friend unless it gets up around 10,000 ppm or below 200 ppm.

 

[pixelsmith]

You must have missed the graph I just posted previously, from EPA:

There's very good data available from the Greenland ice-core samples.

Thats pretty funny that you posted something from the EPA... thats a joke right?

 

[Muadib]

It saddens me that a couple intelligent guys like yourselves are unable to see the bullshit you are subscribing to. Muadib or anyone else here has yet to show that human emissions of CO2 are causing any sort of catastrophic global warming.

And you've yet to provide an alternative theory that explains the data we have that points to anthropogenic global warming, other than it's a conspiracy.

 

[Jimi H.]

Don't bother trying to argue with Pixel about global warming, we had a 20 something page thread on this awhile back, you can find it if you search, and that's all his argument really boils down to, it's a conspiracy....

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Burnt State]

...and that's all his argument really boils down to, it's a conspiracy. In the thread he even conceded that AGW is real, but not to the degree that it's a danger. Now it's back to being an outright scam. His entire world view of NWO/Illuminati/Alex Jonse-ian conspiracy nonsense hinges on global warming being part of the scam so it's not likely he's going to give that up. He'll just tell you to go read 4,000 pages of anti global warming propaganda garbage that the oil companies pay for and until then you're simply to ignorant to argue with him. As much as I like the guy, he's way off on this one.

I think the global warming discussion is interesting when you juxtapose the attitudes towards this up against their relative beliefs/disbelief regarding UFO's and religion. I love watching these themes dance madly across the threads.

I put believing that the green movement is a conspiracy and aliens are creating a hybrid race to take over the world right up there with a burning bush that talks. For all the talk about logic and 'science' that gets thrown around the forum we really seem to be excellent at spinning our wheels. Jimi H. and Prophet deserve to be heeded b/c they're the sensible voice in this discussion.

You can push whatever Globalist conspiracy agenda you want and prove it with this report and that propagandist's version of science, but it only removes us further from reality. "Mopping up the blood," is an accurate sentiment as doing nothing but burning more oil and coal will only bring you more extreme weather, higher SPF numbers on your skin lotion, fewer species, more melanomas and less real food for everyone to eat.

There's no way we're going to get anywhere in talking about mysterious lights in the sky if we are going to hold onto the myths spread by the most dangerous voices of the corporate kings and dictators. Didn't everybody see The Lorax when they were growing up in the 70's?

Who are you going to believe Dr. Coffman or Dr. Seuss?

 

[nameless]

aw jeeeshh.
pixel step away from the thread.

anyhoo. Nice one fellas good to put a voice to the name! Goes to show that the average listener and paranormal botherer should be given more credit than they deserve. Too long have radio shows, crass media and dumb ass TV shows treated us people with contempt.

 

[exo_doc]

@Exo - unfortunately, no. I was cut off from finishing where I was going with that story and I was illustrating (for those aware of the NSA) that what I was about to tell, took place in the UK equivalent, GCHQ.) I had just read a Nick Redfern piece about some security guards at GCHQ having a really good UFO sighting or two, directly over the building in which I had also worked.
I was going to point out that these men had been pretty much ordered by the higher-ups to say that what they had seen was the Mir space station in orbit. Obviously that was definitely not the case, but it's interesting how such a govt. agency such as GCHQ handled what was really only an average sighting.
I was also going to mention that one real regret I have since leaving the navy was that I never thought to grill any long-time radar/EW operators as to whether they had ever seen any tracks they could not explain, in terms of speed, rate of climb etc -all the good characteristics of some UFO sightings that cannot be conventional aircraft. Bearing in mind some of these guys may have spend years manning a radar screen, all round the world etc. I can almost guarantee that someone must have seen something that they maybe put down to those radar ghosts that can happen due to the electronics, or weather phenomena.

Actually Exo, one of my colleagues who went through training with me, did do a stint at Fort Meade, just after I left the navy myself. For those of us doing SIGINT, there were a few cushy drafts in places such as Ft Meade, Cyprus, Australia and New Zealand. They were the kind of jobs you had to really be friends with the drafting officer to get! (different for Americans but if you work in the UK armed forces, especially in a windowless room on a ship, getting a draft in a nice hot sunny climate for 18 months, can seem like you've won the lottery.

If you have anything interesting to tell about the place, I'm always up for hearing about stuff like that.

It was all pretty boring run of the mill stuff. Security was the tightest of anywhere I was stationed...ID check points and searches every 5 feet. I was in three different barracks while there and we had CID inspections with the drug dogs at least weekly with 2X /week pee tests. Of course I heard rumors about this and that, but I ignored it mostly because that's the qickest way to lose your clearance and maybe worse.

 

[Muadib]

As for the myth that volcanoes emit more co2 than humans:

Volcanoes Emit more CO2 than Mankind

This is a pervasive myth that continues to circulate. The idea that volcanoes put out more CO2 than mankind through human industrial output is patently false. The facts are clear and measurable. Humans put out on average around 27Gt (Twenty Seven Gigatons) of CO2 per year. Volcanoes put out around .2 Gt (200 million tons of CO2).

Strombolian Eruption
Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.

Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.].
Source: US Geological Survey
Links

• Volcanic Gases and Their Effects

So we can see, in this case, that Chris is completely and utterly wrong when he says that volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans. This isn't to say that volcanoes don't influence global climate, they can and do, but it has more to do with the injection of sulfate aerosols into the upper atmosphere during very large volcanic eruptions that occur sporadically each century.

 

[pixelsmith]

“The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”
— Alexander King Co-Founder of the Club of Rome, (premier environmental think-tank and consultants to the United Nations) from his 1991 book The First Global Revolution