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Larry Warren on DMR-Dec. 15th

Constance

Paranormal Adept
Yes, you are correct. I think you would be even more surprised at who this woman is. She is currently held in pretty high regard.


Decker
I think I know who it is based on the conversation last night and I was more than surprised by the apparent identification. In fact, I gasped when I heard it, if I heard it correctly.
 

Constance

Paranormal Adept
Don,

Great interview! For me the best part is when you asked him directly what he think he experienced. It may be old news for researchers but for a casual observer, his details really make it sound like a govt. psy op. It explains why the people on the govt payroll (Halt, Pope, etc.) are promoting the ET angle since if the cat was out of the bag the govt might lose one of their prized covers for covert operations.
I don't know how to put together the evident psy ops carried out on Warren, Pennington, Burroughs, and by accounts others with what Warren suggested last night about the ufo perhaps having been 'vectored in' from the base. The latter speculation doesn't make sense to me in terms of the ufo experiences over three nights having been intentional efforts by some agency or other to misrepresent reality to the people on that base, creating a pretense that ufos had visited Rendelsham Forest. And my impression is that Warren thinks the ufos were real, and not ours, not a hoax. I can't see why the PTB would choose to shake up those soldiers with faked sightings and landings on a sensitive nuclear base in the middle of the Cold War.
 

not even wrong

Skilled Investigator
I don't know how to put together the evident psy ops carried out on Warren, Pennington, Burroughs, and by accounts others with what Warren suggested last night about the ufo perhaps having been 'vectored in' from the base. The latter speculation doesn't make sense to me in terms of the ufo experiences over three nights having been intentional efforts by some agency or other to misrepresent reality to the people on that base, creating a pretense that ufos had visited Rendelsham Forest. And my impression is that Warren thinks the ufos were real, and not ours, not a hoax. I can't see why the PTB would choose to shake up those soldiers with faked sightings and landings on a sensitive nuclear base in the middle of the Cold War.
I agree that they went through a lot of effort but think about the benefit of this operation. What better way to test the preparedness of our men than throw something at them they wouldn't expect to see how they react and what their observations are. Or maybe even a dry run to see how that scenario would play out on an enemies base. Just a theory like all others. Maybe there really was a phenomena that happened and the govt used that opportunity to test reactions, plant memories.
 

boomerang

Paranormal Adept
It seems logical that if Rendlesham were a field test of system and personnel response to psychotronic weaponry, what better time that the Christmas holidays when staffing is at a minimum, the locals would tend to be mostly indoors and the overall situation could be most easily controlled.

Still--Speculation is not evidence. It's interesting that none other than Chuck DeCaro's take (his original take anyway) was that the Rendlesham incident was something along those lines.
 

Constance

Paranormal Adept
I agree that they went through a lot of effort but think about the benefit of this operation. What better way to test the preparedness of our men than throw something at them they wouldn't expect to see how they react and what their observations are. Or maybe even a dry run to see how that scenario would play out on an enemies base.

Why would they need to test preparedness of the onsite soldiers and their observations in 1980 when the Air Force/alphabet agencies/DOD et al already had in their possession extensive knowledge about onsite soldiers' reactions and observations during numerous ufo penetrations at air force bases and SAC missile sites over the previous 15 years? The documentation of what happened during those penetrations is available in Fawcett and Greenwood's Clear Intent.


a theory like all others. Maybe there really was a phenomena that happened and the govt used that opportunity to test reactions, plant memories.
The interesting questions raised by Warren during Don's interview are whether the Rendelsham phenomena were intentionally drawn in, even "vectored in," and if so why? And in what context of other efforts to do so in the past? I personally don't see the Air Force supporting the enormous risks of doing that on a major nuclear base rented from a foreign country at the height of the Cold War. If ufos can be 'vectored in', there are innumerable safer places to do so, and in our own country, far from population centers and without provoking nuclear war and/or international complications.
 
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Constance

Paranormal Adept
continuing: If on the other hand there was an unsought (non-vectored-in) ufo landing or landings in Rendelsham and at Bentwaters, it makes sense that the psy ops performed on the witnesses almost immediately afterward were done to disorient them and keep them from sharing their experiences publicly in the near term, and possibly to manipulate them in ways that would discredit their testimony later on if what happened at Rendelsham eventually leaked out.
 
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Burnt State

Paranormal Adept
Finally got a chance to download & listen to this episode and it certainly was a potboiler, or at least a strongly simmering Warren that was allowed to speak his mind. This was a great show that had a strong edge from start to finish, that is if you extract the christmas tunes from the show.

This is what caught my ear: Warren's blunt condemnation of the 'shameful rodents living off the blood of witnesses,' and who would know better? The selling of abductee private sessions is a reprehensible practice and so is allowing others to sneek and peak. For Warren the anger is more tham palpable. He's been accused of addiction and has had his private experiences exposed to his sworn enemy. That's a pretty vulnerable space, and so feelings are felt there. This whole UFO witness thing is a real life rearranger.

I think Warren's statement is critical though. It is a very accurate analysis of a very big chunk of ufology and also helps to describe how a lot of it is manufactured by the writer/researcher. Conflict ensues, in fact the war is on as Larry outlined Halt has dropped a nuclear bomb on the Warren State. There's some anger and some paranoia and a lot of blood and guts language across the whole episode. In the Bentwaters Incident we understand ufology to be literally a war zone, one whose battle for truth never ends. While I mean no disrespect for those brave few who are willing to put their life on the line for the safety of others, I found it quite fascinating how the theme of war is so much a part of this case, right down to Warren's gun first issued 12 years earlier in another infamous war zone.

Of course UFO's and the military are interwoven historically as we understand the Foo Fighters appearing in the WWII air theatre. And how they must have been so heart poundingly theatrical for those mid-century war pilots, as are the events at the heart of this very immense dual army chapter in the history of ufology. This case is truly a landmine of a case. Betty and Barney Hill - also a strong army connection. Just what exactly is their role in the UFO conundrum? Are they bit players, just observers like us or are they instigators, perhaps the magicians?

Does the violence of the military attract these agents of change? They show up in times of turmoil, as trickster to evoke some kind of shift in human experience, or maybe just to jog up the way we do things - the social control barometer of Vallée. And then are ufo's just agents of fortune who are here to play off of our own folly, to steer us as we move off course. Is that some kind of global conscience at work? Could they be disappointed with us or just having fun.

I don't find it very conceivable that the base was able to respond with their own theatrics to confuse reality. That would require not just the skill to vector in phenomenon - which is a real stretch of creulity for me - but to also have on hand their own smoke and mirrors trickster show to meddle with the whole lot of them. That kind of overly complicated approach is in need of a more simplified answer. The plane that was here to remove the show, or the mechanism for it, points to one of two options as always: a UFO landed, or it was made to look like a UFO landed.

I wonder, do cases with prolonged visitations point more to human manufacture i.e. black triangular UFO's or is it an alien life form that periodically likes to rub up against us, to try to what - make contact, to send us binary codes? Have any contactee stories ever really panned out? But the real truth is the one we do know: UFO's make us fight amongst ourselves; that's the only thing certain about UFO reality. And in this way it does more than possibly steer us, it is distracting us - what's that all about?

Addendum: the most sane thing said this entire episode was our host's sage advice: if you think you've been abducted then go see your family doctor and whatever you do, stay away from UFO hypnotists. Imagine how many people might have avoided their own wars if they heeded this warning, or at least perhaps might have been able to find some peace within themselves. I sure hope Larry Warren will find his one day.
 
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Burnt State

Paranormal Adept
This is an interesting retelling with a much younger Warren. When you re-listen to this first person account it's hard to imagine that this was engineered without the aid of some really interesting technology. When you hear his retelling of the details I find it difficult to consider how this was done technically without the aid of hallucinogens in order to smooth over all the witnesses being experimented on. Still, there is a sense that the military are obviously a party to it all and appear to have played a significant role in the planning of this meeting. It's an interesting set of technical pieces unfolding.
 

not even wrong

Skilled Investigator
I personally don't see the Air Force supporting the enormous risks of doing that on a major nuclear base rented from a foreign country at the height of the Cold War. If ufos can be 'vectored in', there are innumerable safer places to do so, and in our own country, far from population centers and without provoking nuclear war and/or international complications.
Guess it depends on who up the command chain knew about it. The order to press the button comes from up above, not someone on the site I thought. Again the thinking is if anyone needs to be tested for preparedness it would be the group monitoring a major nuclear base rented from a foreign country at the height of the Cold War.

"continuing: If on the other hand there was an unsought (non-vectored-in) ufo landing or landings in Rendelsham and at Bentwaters, it makes sense that the psy ops performed on the witnesses almost immediately afterward were done to disorient them and keep them from sharing their experiences publicly in the near term, and possibly to manipulate them in ways that would discredit their testimony later on if what happened at Rendelsham eventually leaked out."
This makes a lot of sense, something happened and the wheels were put in motion to disorient/discredit all who witnessed. They did a great job because it still doesn't get the mainstream attention that something like this should get.

FYI wasn't sure how to pull multiple posts in to one so the section in quotes is from Constance.
 

DaveM

Paranormal Adept
Totally off topic but I still remember as a kid finding all my uncle's Blue Oyster Cult albums and noticing that every album had the upside down question mark hidden somewhere. That was back when devil worshipping was so cool.
I hate to break it to you but the BOC upside down question mark is a stylized astronomical symbol for Saturn. It doesn't have anything to do with devil worship.
 

not even wrong

Skilled Investigator
I hate to break it to you but the BOC upside down question mark is a stylized astronomical symbol for Saturn. It doesn't have anything to do with devil worship.
You just shattered my childhood. I thought I was such a rebel listening to devil music. Thank goodness AC/DC stood for Anti Christ/Devil's Coming and playing Judas Priest backwards talked about the devil.
 

Constance

Paranormal Adept
Guess it depends on who up the command chain knew about it. The order to press the button comes from up above, not someone on the site I thought. Again the thinking is if anyone needs to be tested for preparedness it would be the group monitoring a major nuclear base rented from a foreign country at the height of the Cold War.
Supposing that someone "up the chain of command" had only to "press a button" to set off three nights of extraordinary phenomena at Bentwaters/Rendelsham, what else had to be in place to then generate those phenomena? Precisely what technology, what engineering, what engineers and technicians, assembled and developing their pyrotechnics where, authorized and implemented by whom? Is there a material trace anywhere of the means and operations that would be involved in producing the effects at Rendelsham?
 

DaveM

Paranormal Adept
You just shattered my childhood. I thought I was such a rebel listening to devil music. Thank goodness AC/DC stood for Anti Christ/Devil's Coming and playing Judas Priest backwards talked about the devil.
Another myth shattered. The Young brother's sister saw 'AC/DC' written on a sewing machine. The brothers thought that AC/DC was a cool name, of course it stood for 'alternating current/direct current.'
 

Constance

Paranormal Adept
Supposing that someone "up the chain of command" had only to "press a button" to set off three nights of extraordinary phenomena at Bentwaters/Rendelsham, what else had to be in place to then generate those phenomena? Precisely what technology, what engineering, what engineers and technicians, assembled and developing their pyrotechnics where, authorized and implemented by whom? Is there a material trace anywhere of the means and operations that would be involved in producing the effects at Rendelsham?
or in any other ufo cases in which the one-word answer 'psyops' is naively supposed to constitute an explanation? It's a practical question.
 

boomerang

Paranormal Adept
This is an interesting retelling with a much younger Warren. When you re-listen to this first person account it's hard to imagine that this was engineered without the aid of some really interesting technology. When you hear his retelling of the details I find it difficult to consider how this was done technically without the aid of hallucinogens in order to smooth over all the witnesses being experimented on. Still, there is a sense that the military are obviously a party to it all and appear to have played a significant role in the planning of this meeting. It's an interesting set of technical pieces unfolding.
Thanks for the video, Burnt. This is a very rational and sincere sounding Larry Warren indeed.

A few offhand observations about the UFO phenomenon since 1947:

-A nebulous but persistent link, whether by design or not, has existed between this nation's defense and intelligence establishments and the UFO phenomenon from the outset.

-Re Col Halt's tape of events at Rendlesham--Imagine you are a career officer, one notch down in rank from the coveted full bird and in possession of a tape recording that might well torpedo your career. Would one not think that Halt should have been more than careful in taking precautions that it never go public? Its appearance in the public domain brings to mind another famous gaff: the Roswell press release.

Who knows how Halt's tape really got out? Countless machinations are plausible. But something does not add up.

Now tighten your tin foil hats: Think back to the small percentage of work on mind and perception control done by our (and no doubt other) governments since the early 1950's of which we know. Over sixty years ago. Consider records on the subject that were undoubtedly hidden and admittedly destroyed ahead of Congressional hearings. Questions about sophisticated techniques to warp and influence perception and memory might almost be seen as the proverbial elephant in the corner. Don't expect to hear public speculation about this anytime soon. 'The topic of saucers from Z Reticuli is mainstream by comparison.

Laa Tee Da....I'm off to watch the X-files episode "Jose Chung's From Outer Space" yet one more time. It may not be all that fictional after all. :confused:
 


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